The argument of citing less deaths keep popping up

[BaileyB]

10 minutes ago, Angelle said:

It sounds like my vet takes it more seriously than the healthcare workers you know.

True! The vet made us wait in the car - nobody was allowed in the building but the dog. 🤣

[Angelle]

23 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

In my mind, there is a difference between an individual choice that affects the health and life of the individual vs a threat to public health/pandemic (infectious virus with no known treatment or vaccine). I don’t want anyone to tell me that I can’t drink Big Gulps or eat chocolate or whatever else, but in that case it is only my health that is affected if I chose to overindulge (aside from the cost to the health care system, given we have public health care).

I read a comment by Dr. Bonnie Henry (BC) that I thought was interesting. She had the ability to use her authority to impose various public health orders but she said that she was trying to avoid “mandating” anything. It was her belief that people would be more compliant if restrictive rules and punishments were NOT put in place. Her exact quote was something like “If you give the people what they need - information, financial assistance, such that they can make the right decision... they will make the right decision and do what is required.” And, that’s pretty much what happened. Not without it’s bumps, but BC got their cases under control quickly because people complied with the public health recommendations...

I agree with you. I was just responding to the person who was talking about other health problems, as though nobody had tried to enact laws to change things.  

[NuevoYorko]

1 hour ago, nittygritty said:

Who cares if they are missing an ear to hold up a face mask or have other mental, physical or health conditions that prevent them from wearing a face mask? It’s really up to every individual to decide for themselves based on recommendations but who is going to be in charge of enforcing it?  The newly formed face mask police?

Why not be part of the solution?  

[QuietRiot]

WOW WOW!

I didn't think it would. Our more back water county, where the commissioners decided NOT to mandate any mask wearing, well...it finally happened. Our VERY first sleepy town city decided to take it upon themselves to mandate masks. It's actually a popular small town that is visited by a lot of out-of-towners, so it makes sense. It was due in part to resident businesses voicing their concerns of carriers coming and going out of their local businesses. Chances are a lot of people coming from hot spots.

I get the feeling that 2020 will be a BIG "I TOLD YOU SO!"

[QuietRiot]

I county sherriff near me posted the following. VEry sad

Sorry to inform you tonight that our covid-19 data updates for Volusia County are over.

The Department of Health just told us that effective immediately, they're no longer providing us the addresses that are being monitored for covid-19.

Their reasoning is that with so much community spread, the effort is too time consuming, and all first responders should be wearing personal protective equipment in all close contacts with the public, anyway.

From my perspective, this is just another failure in a long line of government failures to confront this coronavirus crisis in an effective way.

From the beginning, we have all been getting limited information or conflicting information from our local, state and federal governments.

In his inaugural address in 1981, facing a recession, President Ronald Reagan said: "In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government IS the problem."

Nearly 40 years later, his words ring just as true about the crisis facing us today.

There have been too many failures to list here, but the constant theme throughout all of them has been a void of steady leadership and a lack of accurate and honest information provided to the American people.

In my opinion, it's up to individual Americans and the private sector to step up and take control of this crisis. While the government is groping around in the dark like the 3 blind mice, we are going to have to fight our way through this.

I have said that I'm not in favor of a government-enforced mask mandate. I don't believe it's the role of my deputies to go out and enforce mask-wearing on people. But I believe the private sector - our grocery stores, restaurants, retailers of all kinds - are in a unique position to create a mask mandate that makes sense. If the store tells me I need to wear a mask to come in and shop for what I need, then I'm wearing a mask. Most of us should be able to agree to that.

More than 3 months ago, I started posting the numbers of locations flagged for covid-19 in each city in Volusia County because I believe we all deserve access to information to make informed decisions. Not everyone agreed with me doing that, including some of our local elected officials who have proven to be such failures at leadership.

It's clear now that our government is so overwhelmed by this crisis, that it's up to the people to solve it. I hope we are up to the task.

Edited July 8, 2020 by QuietRiot

[Redhead14]

3 hours ago, nittygritty said:

It’s really none of my business why someone else doesn’t wear a face mask out in public. Neither is it yours or anyone else’s. There are all kinds of reasons that people don’t. It should not be a crime not to. They should not have to pay a fine or do jail time for not wearing a mask. That is my argument. 
 

 

It is my business if there are people walking around carrying a disease that may kill me or one of my loved ones or friends.  They have the right not to wear a mask but they don't have the right to possibly impose a disease on me or my loved ones.  I regard everyone without a mask (actually even with a mask) to be a threat/walking weapon.  I think everyone who refuses to wear a mask should at least be ticketed (not necessarily a fine) for the purpose of monitoring and recording their name and contact information for tracking.  I had a delivery man fired for approaching my home without a mask when I was specific about contactless/mask required delivery.  It's bullsh*t for anyone to come on to my property and possibly expose me and I won't tolerate it. 

[QuietRiot]

4 minutes ago, Redhead14 said:

It is my business if there are people walking around carrying a disease that may kill me or one of my loved ones or friends.  They have the right not to wear a mask but they don't have the right to possibly impose a disease on me or my loved ones.  I regard everyone without a mask (actually even with a mask) to be a threat/walking weapon.  I think everyone who refuses to wear a mask should at least be ticketed (not necessarily a fine) for the purpose of monitoring and recording their name and contact information for tracking.  I had a delivery man fired for approaching my home without a mask when I was specific about contactless/mask required delivery.  It's bullsh*t for anyone to come on to my property and possibly expose me and I won't tolerate it. 

I am trying to figure out, esp. at THIS point in time, there's really no debating it...anymore. But anti-maskers keep droning on. The most I do is just SCAN their posts and keep seeing the same rhetoric, except it's being worded differently. 

I think people should be fined for no mask wearing in a mandated city/county. Usually this would be put to task by health departments. No different when the find or shut down restaurants for a wave of food poisoning or rat turds. No mask wearing would now fall under that umbrella...as it should. It just makes sense. Hopefully, this will be temporary.

Edited July 8, 2020 by QuietRiot

[nittygritty]

22 minutes ago, Redhead14 said:

It is my business if there are people walking around carrying a disease that may kill me or one of my loved ones or friends.  They have the right not to wear a mask but they don't have the right to possibly impose a disease on me or my loved ones.  I regard everyone without a mask (actually even with a mask) to be a threat/walking weapon.  I think everyone who refuses to wear a mask should at least be ticketed (not necessarily a fine) for the purpose of monitoring and recording their name and contact information for tracking.  I had a delivery man fired for approaching my home without a mask when I was specific about contactless/mask required delivery.  It's bullsh*t for anyone to come on to my property and possibly expose me and I won't tolerate it. 

People aren’t out wearing N95 masks that actually provide protection from the spread of coronavirus or any virus. They are wearing home made flimsy cloth face coverings or disposable masks that don’t really do much. They can cough and sneeze right through them. It’s a false sense of protection. 

[Redhead14]

1 hour ago, nittygritty said:

People aren’t out wearing N95 masks that actually provide protection from the spread of coronavirus or any virus. They are wearing home made flimsy cloth face coverings or disposable masks that don’t really do much. They can cough and sneeze right through them. It’s a false sense of protection. 

I don't give a crap what they wear.  Anything helps.  There is conflicting information so at least F ing try something.  And, no one can tell me that masks that aren't N95 aren't effective.  Doctors and nurses have been wearing fairly flimsy masks for a very, very, very long time in hospitals, etc. to prevent the spread of other illnesses.    And, no matter what anyone says, wearing masks and washing hands has been very effective in areas that have been abiding by those measures.  There is a ton of evidence to support wearing masks of any kind and that the minimal efforts that were being taken were working.  

Edited July 9, 2020 by Redhead14

[QuietRiot]

Doctors in Florida write a letter to DeSantis. This is a good read and it would behoove DeSantis to take heed. Even the TX Govt switched his attitude 180...so should the Fla gov.

Edited July 9, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Removed Google Forms link due to privacy concerns

[BaileyB]

Just watching the morning news and Texas reported its deadliest day of the pandemic yesterday. Sadly, it appears deaths are rising. 

[sothereiwas]

On 7/2/2020 at 6:36 AM, QuietRiot said:

Apparently, less deaths make the world of a difference.

Those that survived, well...let's just say they suffered a lot of pain and anguish.

Some did. Some didn't notice. That's probably the point. A lot of people get exposed, are detectable, contribute to the case count, but other than that it's just a case of the sniffles, or less. 

[QuietRiot]

6 minutes ago, sothereiwas said:

Some did. Some didn't notice. That's probably the point. A lot of people get exposed, are detectable, contribute to the case count, but other than that it's just a case of the sniffles, or less. 

Never been the case of the sniffles whatsoever. But, I take it you're an epidemiologist, right? It's a disease of the endothelial cells. It can cause long lasting, less than quality life in many people should they survive it, the autopsies show organ (ie lung) damage. 

Edited July 9, 2020 by QuietRiot

[sothereiwas]

1 minute ago, QuietRiot said:

Never been the case of the sniffles whatsoever.

It's an established fact that a large number of COVID-19 cases are asymptomatic (search for this term if you've not heard the news) or very minor. Some cases cause serious injury or death. 

[BC1980]

It's gotten really bad with hospitalizations in my state again. The numbers just keep going up. We've had to suspend elective procedures again because we don't have the staff. To top it all off, we are having major PPE issues again. We get one N95 mask for the duration. I haven't had to work on the COVID unit for 2 months, but I'm fully expecting to be sent back at some point. The only thing that's saving me is that my regular unit is to woefully understaffed that we can't afford to send any nurses to another unit.

[QuietRiot]

53 minutes ago, sothereiwas said:

It's an established fact that a large number of COVID-19 cases are asymptomatic (search for this term if you've not heard the news) or very minor. Some cases cause serious injury or death. 

And your point? It's the latter that's concerning. Death rates are now going up.

Edited July 9, 2020 by QuietRiot

[sothereiwas]

12 minutes ago, QuietRiot said:

Death rates are now going up.

There are so many ways to measure this I'll have to see what you're specifically talking about to respond, but for a data point, the test positivity rate is still below mid-May levels, although it is rising. 

[BC1980]

19 hours ago, Redhead14 said:

It is my business if there are people walking around carrying a disease that may kill me or one of my loved ones or friends.  They have the right not to wear a mask but they don't have the right to possibly impose a disease on me or my loved ones.  I regard everyone without a mask (actually even with a mask) to be a threat/walking weapon.  I think everyone who refuses to wear a mask should at least be ticketed (not necessarily a fine) for the purpose of monitoring and recording their name and contact information for tracking.  I had a delivery man fired for approaching my home without a mask when I was specific about contactless/mask required delivery.  It's bullsh*t for anyone to come on to my property and possibly expose me and I won't tolerate it. 

Yup. Public health is a group effort. Many of the decisions we make affect the group. 

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, sothereiwas said:

the test positivity rate is still below mid-May levels, although it is rising. 

All I’ve heard on the news this week is how the test positivity rate is rising significantly. 

Quick search and the first hit shows the sun sentinel reporting that two days ago the test positivity rate in Florida was 20.8% - the highest since the start of the pandemic. Arizona has the highest rate of all states, above 25%. Twenty five states have seen increases in their test positivity rates, including Oklahoma just a few weeks after the city of Tulsa hosted a large political rally. 

Edited July 9, 2020 by BaileyB

[lana-banana]

From the COVID-19 Tracking Project, published today:

"Nationally, the 7-day average in deaths has begun to rise after an extended decline. The last three days were the highest numbers we’ve since early June. This rise in deaths is concentrated in states with large outbreaks. Texas, California, and Florida all reported their single highest day of deaths for the entire pandemic today...For data observers, one key takeaway is that the lag in reporting deaths may vary widely between states that use the different methods. On-the-ground reporting has been indicating that testing capacity is constrained right now, but we hadn’t seen that in our data. Now, after weeks of the 7-day average moving upwards, testing has stalled, even as cases reach new highs. Arizona is the poster child for this problem. Even as the outbreak continues there and hospitalizations and deaths rise, the 7-day average for tests has fallen in July. California reported a record number of deaths today. We don’t know if that’s a one-off bad day or if the state will regularly begin reporting much higher numbers of deaths. On the other end of the country, South Carolina is showing a clear trend of increasing numbers of COVID deaths. The data reported today may still have some backlogged information from the holiday weekend, but the South does not look good. OK, our daily update is published. States reported 637k tests. Today’s case count is the second-highest in our data; the record was set yesterday. Hospitalizations kept moving upward, and states reported 867 deaths."

So much for citing fewer deaths.

Edited July 10, 2020 by lana-banana

[Angelle]

Masks are now mandatory in my county, thanks to people who don't want to make this easier for everyone. Our numbers are shooting up. We had been doing so well.

[Ellener]

We haven't had the huge number of deaths where I live that we might have had at the start of the pandemic before all the facilities and expertise were in place, and also because my city has so little public transport, but it's a serious situation now to have to care for all these sick and impoverished people. It's not as easy as saying 'it's not that bad...' just because everyone isn't dying.

 

 

[Fresh_Start]

I've been wearing a blue bandana like an outlaw.

Yep.

I didn't choose the thug life.  The thug life chose me.

[Angelle]

1 hour ago, Ellener said:

We haven't had the huge number of deaths where I live that we might have had at the start of the pandemic before all the facilities and expertise were in place, and also because my city has so little public transport, but it's a serious situation now to have to care for all these sick and impoverished people. It's not as easy as saying 'it's not that bad...' just because everyone isn't dying.

 

 

There's a huge discussion (argument) going on in a local group on facebook, over masks now being mandatory. A guy actually asked me why we're seeing new cases, if lockdown worked. He claimed that it was supposed to wipe out the disease (I don't know anyone who believed that). So he doesn't believe that it's real. 

[Angelle]

27 minutes ago, enigma32 said:

Yeah, these cloth masks aren't worth much, and no, if you wear some crappy cloth mask on your face over and over then it likely isn't protecting you much, if at all. What the masks will do is help protect other people from you. It's been shown that even the most crappy of crappy masks will help curb the spread of infection. 

Look, I'm Libertarian, ok? I don't want a bunch of laws saying we need to shut down businesses or making masks mandatory. How about we just all stop being jerks? Don't act like a goon out there. Wear a mask for the few minutes you need to go into a store or something. And maybe practice a few simple safety measures. It would be really nice if we actually got through this crap.

In March, once I got over the initial fear, and preparation for quarantine, I actually thought that it would be this simple. Get through the lockdown, adjust to new, and hopefully temporary rules, for a year or so. We couldn't hold it together for a month.