Wife Debate: Balance of control, with holding others accountable

[BMI03]

I think I am part venting here, part asking for advice.

How do you deal with a situation in which you and your spouse have fundamentally different philosophies about something? My wife and I see eye to eye on many things…many more things than not, but now and then we stumble across something that we are completely different on in how we approach it, and I don't think will ever agree, baked deep into who we are I think based on upbringing and life experiences. 

We are building a new home. We have aligned on everything…location, type, look, finishes, etc. All on the same page and have enjoyed it. We have some builder imposed deadlines on making certain selections on particular items (types of cabinets, etc.), with a couple of designers who work for the builder coaching us along. The designers have been helpful, but hot and cold…emails and lots of info over a couple of days, then silent for the next couple of days while they get answers, and likely service other clients. The timeline to make all the selections has come and gone about a week and a bit ago. No mention from the designers at the time, but they are cracking a whip now to get it done, despite still being active and quiet day to day. We have almost everything selected minus a question I had on dimensions of one of the cabinets where there appears to be an inconsistency. The builder/designers have asked us today to sign off on all of the selections we have picked to date and leave that one outstanding until we can solve the discrepancy, and then we will sign that one later.

This is where we disagree. Her natural tendency here is to make them wait. Her justification is that it’s not fair of them to drag their feet on answering our questions one moment, and then be pushing us to do something she’s uncomfortable with the next to move the work forward. From her perspective, yes she understands that there is a contractual date to have this decided by which has passed, but we have emails to show we have been working it, and have had them hold us up through some delayed responses, so she isn’t going to disrupt her afternoon to dissect what we can and shouldn’t sign now just to allow them to check the box on the timing they now want to do it within. It’s their job, not ours…we are the client. They have to make it right. Why should she have to feel discomfort and stress in 'sign this but don't sign that' when they should wait, package the whole thing as initially intended, and we will sign once.

My natural tendency is to flex to get it done. I don’t disagree with my wife in that there is a performance issue on the part of the designers, but there have been evenings that we also chose to pour that glass of wine vs. review the latest document. Yes, it’s not our ‘job’, but it’s our home, and we are the ones who will ultimately pay the price if it goes wrong. I don’t feel that I can expect the designers to have the same level of vested interest in the outcome as we will over our own home, and whether deserved or not, and however small the risk, if some effort on my part helps de-risk the potential of the builder throwing hands in the air and saying “The deadline has passed, you just get standard finishings”, or “We need to delay your close two months because we missed the bulk-order this time.”. Point to me is, I don’t know exactly what drives those deadlines, but my not knowing doesn’t mean there isn’t anything driving it and waiting is fine. So why add unknown risk when the only person who pays the price for the impact is us?

I tried to use an analogy: If a pedestrian has a walking light, and sees a driver coming in a car isn’t slowing down for him/her, should they cross? They may be in the right, but they also have way more personal investment in the event going well. The driver may have the deterrent of a ticket, or charges (in our house case, deterrent of lost profit on the upgrades), but they will never care as much about the outcome as the walker in this case who has more to lose. So as the walker, at the end of the day I don’t care who is right or wrong…I am going to take personal accountability for my own goals/safety, and protect myself where I can control it, even if I shouldn’t have to do so, because ultimately I need to live with the results.

My wife sees this approach I have as panicky, and trying to “fix things” I shouldn't need to fix. I do have a 'fix it' mentality for sure, but to me in this case I’m being controlling a bit perhaps, in that I am not leaving important details to others (the designers) where I see performance gaps, but I am not panicked in my approach I don’t think…just trying to do what I can to hit a goal that’s important to me. To me her approach works in the ideal, but unnecessarily adds more risk to us, however small in the real world application. My wife is generally controlling, and will admit that herself, so it comes out of left field to me when she takes this side of things like this. It’s like her internal drive to hold others accountable, even at her own detriment, outmatches her desire to control the outcome.

So in this case, she expressed that my approach caused her anxiety, led to eye rolls at me, tears, and now she’s back in bed with the door closed instead of going to work and we have not spoken since. She does suffers from anxiety and depression, ad mentioned she forgot her depression pills yesterday (assume she remembered today), so I should give that context. Not that I think that’s the cause in this case as this is one example and there are others, but just for transparency for those who have stuck with the wall of text and may comment that that may have made this bigger than it would otherwise have been, even if the fundamental disagreement remains.

Again, this was more a vent, and place to lay my thoughts out logically than an all out need for advice, but certainly interested in what others have to say.

Thanks everyone.

[BaileyB]

As one who can feel you pain because we are also building a home and making decisions during this time of Covid, I would tell the builder/supplier that you will make your decision as soon as possible and they will wait. Our builder have us a month deadline at the start of Covid to have all our decisions made... we said not possible, you will get it when you get it and they said “no problem.” Haven’t heard from them since... and we have quietly been going about meeting with suppliers and making our decisions. 

It is your home, these are big decisions... and while you don’t want to make them wait unnecessarily, neither do you want to rush your decisions. Sure, they have a timeline they want to follow but at the end of the day, the person who “suffers” from any delay is you... and, at the end of the day, you are the person who needs to be happy. They are working for you - even though it doesn’t feel like it sometimes. So, don’t delay unnecessarily but give your wife a hug and tell her that you will talk to the builder and ask them to give you a little more time...

Congrats on the new home! While I love walking through our home that is in the early stages of the build, the process has been challenging at times. No doubt, it will all be forgotten when we move in...

Edited July 3, 2020 by BaileyB

[Lotsgoingon]

Wow, hard to tell. 

 I'll cut to the quick: do you think your wife is psychologically troubled. I mean a disagreement like this isn't really cause for depression and going to be and all that. So is she a person who HAS to go by the book or else she feels extreme anxiety? 

It's OK for you guys to have your respective tendencies ... one a harder negotiator and less flexible than the other ... couples have that issue all the time. But they figure out how to trade off ... one decision goes to the wife, the other to the husband ... You learn to give up some control AND to be forgiving if  you follow the wife's suggestion and things blow up. Literally that's a key part of marriage: to avoid saying "I told you so" to your spouse when you have allowed your spouse to make a decision that you worried was foolish all along.

So, is her anxiety and depression flaring up a lot? Is she more fragile and rigid than you thought she was? Is she having episodes of serious depression? I'm not blaming her, but her mental health is an issue here because it's directly tied in to getting her way, it seems. 

Does your wife "repair" things? For example, when she withdraws and closes the door and all that, does she later or the next day  do something that lets you know she knows she was unduly tough the previous night? Why am I thinking the answer is no, that she doesn't do that? Or only does so in the most minimal way?

 

 

 

[Mystery4u]

If they have been dragging their feet and are then pushing for a decision by a deadline then your wife is completely right - you should make them wait. It's also a matter of principle. You are paying them to do a job, you tell them when and how, not the other way round.

Your view sounds like they are the boss not you. Your wife has every right to be upset with you.

[Ellener]

On 7/3/2020 at 2:02 PM, BMI03 said:

way more personal investment in the event going well. 

You and wife are not on the same page about what equals 'well'. 

Who cares about home 'finishes'? what does it matter especially now?!

Get a grip!  People are dying...find something more purposeful to do together.

[Lotsgoingon]

Tough one. I can't tell if the OP is simply willing to be flexible given a bunch of different circumstances and factors or ... if the OP is simply not as comfortable with confronting the contractors or designers as the wife is. You can lose out a lot in life when you go too far in avoiding confrontation. 

What bothers me is that neither of you has apparently gone to the meta-level, a level of thinking about how each of you thinks ... affirming how each of you thinks and then finding a compromise or one of you giving the other their way in this particular case (with the understanding that the compromising partner will make the next big decision when you two are at loggerheads.) 

You guys need to go meta for more clarity. This cannot be a one-time thing. Where else in the relationship have you guys had this kind of contrasting thinking? How have you resolved this? How can you find a method that will allow you to resolve this difference. I'm sensing that the wife isn't just tough as in a tough bargainer...  but is also rigid. That's a difficult combination to deal with in a partnership if she's not willing to compromise. 

 

 

[ShyViolet]

So if I understand this correctly, you guys have all the selections picked out and finalized, except for one which had a discrepancy... and the builders would like you to sign off on all of the selections except that one, so they can correct that one later.... and your wife wants to refuse to sign off on anything until it's all straightened out?

I kind of agree with you on this one.... in life we all need to be flexible.  If you have all of the selections picked out except one, why wouldn't you sign off on the ones that are ready to go, so they can do what they need to do in order to move forward with those.  It seems unnecessarily rigid to refuse to sign off on anything until it's all perfect, and I agree with you that maybe that approach could compromise the progress of the project.

[major_merrick]

I try to make things simple.

If I/we are paying the money, then the builders get to dance to our tune whether they like it or not.  Demand what you want, do it your way.

[BaileyB]

10 hours ago, ShyViolet said:

So if I understand this correctly, you guys have all the selections picked out and finalized, except for one which had a discrepancy... and the builders would like you to sign off on all of the selections except that one, so they can correct that one later.... and your wife wants to refuse to sign off on anything until it's all straightened out?

I kind of agree with you on this one.... in life we all need to be flexible.  If you have all of the selections picked out except one, why wouldn't you sign off on the ones that are ready to go, so they can do what they need to do in order to move forward with those. 

Except, everything kind of blends together... the countertops will depend on the cupboards you choose... The paint will depend on the flooring, etc... Perhaps she is like me, and just needs to see it all come together before signing off on this last thing? Just a thought, we don’t know what it is...

[d0nnivain]

Every construction project is a series of contracts, breeches & renegotiations.  The deadlines are all artificial, imposed by the contractor to create some artificial sense of when the company can go on to another project.  

When DH & I remodeled our kitchen, we started in July 2015.  We were having people over for Thanksgiving that year.  It was supposed to be a 6 week project so completed by Labor Day in my mind, as I always knew 6 weeks was ambitious.  Instead we finished the Wednesday before Thanksgiving almost 5 months later.  There were fights.  There was stress. There were tears.  Heck at one point I got carbon monoxide poisoning.  

Both you & your wife are right.  My advice:  focus on your marriage not what you are building.  Big construction projects take patience.  Especially because your approach seems to be adding to her stress, just let her take the lead.  At the end of this you want to come out with a marriage, right?  

[BaileyB]

35 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

Both you & your wife are right.  My advice:  focus on your marriage not what you are building.  Big construction projects take patience.  Especially because your approach seems to be adding to her stress, just let her take the lead.  At the end of this you want to come out with a marriage, right?  

This, is exactly what I was thinking and as usual, Donnivain said it so eloquently. 

[BMI03]

On 7/4/2020 at 8:42 PM, Lotsgoingon said:

Wow, hard to tell. 

 I'll cut to the quick: do you think your wife is psychologically troubled. I mean a disagreement like this isn't really cause for depression and going to be and all that. So is she a person who HAS to go by the book or else she feels extreme anxiety? 

It's OK for you guys to have your respective tendencies ... one a harder negotiator and less flexible than the other ... couples have that issue all the time. But they figure out how to trade off ... one decision goes to the wife, the other to the husband ... You learn to give up some control AND to be forgiving if  you follow the wife's suggestion and things blow up. Literally that's a key part of marriage: to avoid saying "I told you so" to your spouse when you have allowed your spouse to make a decision that you worried was foolish all along.

So, is her anxiety and depression flaring up a lot? Is she more fragile and rigid than you thought she was? Is she having episodes of serious depression? I'm not blaming her, but her mental health is an issue here because it's directly tied in to getting her way, it seems. 

Does your wife "repair" things? For example, when she withdraws and closes the door and all that, does she later or the next day  do something that lets you know she knows she was unduly tough the previous night? Why am I thinking the answer is no, that she doesn't do that? Or only does so in the most minimal way?

 

 

 

I think her depression and anxiety have a part to play for sure. I don't think they define her tendencies on how to act, but I think they fuel the overwhelming feeling that comes with the potential of taking an approach that is different from what she would do. She's Latin, and so admits she already has a two stage reaction to things...the heated outburst, followed by the more logical reasoning later. In this case there is no heated outburst, but there is the overly (by my measurement) emotional initial reaction, and retreat to the bedroom, followed by a later more reasonable discussion. To your question, she does come around after a bit, usually after 4-6 hours, not to change her opinion (which I don't want her to) but to more calmly discuss it without the emotionally charged context. That's when we are able to progress and compromise. The problem is that the initial reaction has me walking on eggshells sometimes because I don't know what topic may be the next one to hit a nerve and overwhelm her.

[BMI03]

On 7/3/2020 at 1:47 PM, BaileyB said:

As one who can feel you pain because we are also building a home and making decisions during this time of Covid, I would tell the builder/supplier that you will make your decision as soon as possible and they will wait. Our builder have us a month deadline at the start of Covid to have all our decisions made... we said not possible, you will get it when you get it and they said “no problem.” Haven’t heard from them since... and we have quietly been going about meeting with suppliers and making our decisions. 

It is your home, these are big decisions... and while you don’t want to make them wait unnecessarily, neither do you want to rush your decisions. Sure, they have a timeline they want to follow but at the end of the day, the person who “suffers” from any delay is you... and, at the end of the day, you are the person who needs to be happy. They are working for you - even though it doesn’t feel like it sometimes. So, don’t delay unnecessarily but give your wife a hug and tell her that you will talk to the builder and ask them to give you a little more time...

Congrats on the new home! While I love walking through our home that is in the early stages of the build, the process has been challenging at times. No doubt, it will all be forgotten when we move in...

My concern is less about the home itself, so much as this is just the most recent example of a more fundamental issue of difference in approach to these kinds of situations, and her reaction to them. 

Thanks for reading and providing the input. Good luck with your home!

[BMI03]

On 7/4/2020 at 11:08 PM, Mystery4u said:

If they have been dragging their feet and are then pushing for a decision by a deadline then your wife is completely right - you should make them wait. It's also a matter of principle. You are paying them to do a job, you tell them when and how, not the other way round.

Your view sounds like they are the boss not you. Your wife has every right to be upset with you.

I appreciate the input. Your side of the debate is almost spot on how my wife feels, so I think you may help me with the most insight into her thinking. So if you don't mind, I'll make my points here with you because I'd love to understand how her mind may be processing them.

To your point of their dragging their feet being reason to "make them wait.", why? What I mean is, why does their bad behavior make you believe the right thing to do is take an action that is on the surface negative towards them? Not challenging your position...I really want to hear your thinking on this. Why make them wait? The 'principle' part isn't lost on me, but in my view, the people most at risk of being negatively impacted by making them wait is my wife and I. Legally speaking, yes I am paying them to do a job, but the contract defines when and how, and the 'when' by which we were meant to sign off on all of our specifics has past by two weeks now. Legally, if they wanted to (i.e. bulk orders have passed, their crews are going to be too busy for 'extras', etc) they could move forward without our selections and build us the basic house with no risk of delay. Do I think this is likely? No, I think they profit more from the extras, so will wait within reason. But do I see a need to take this risk just to 'make them wait' out of 'principle'? I don't...because I feel that adds unnecessary risk to my enjoyment of the end product with no real gain, in addition to feeling petty and vindictive. In a unlikely, but quite possible way, we could end up with a house that's missing all the extras we want, just so my wife can be right on principal. I don't see that as a good trade off.

I sincerely would like to her the argument talked out a bit more...Thank you for the time you took to read it.

 

[BMI03]

On 7/4/2020 at 11:39 PM, Ellener said:

You and wife are not on the same page about what equals 'well'. 

Who cares about home 'finishes'? what does it matter especially now?!

Get a grip!  People are dying...find something more purposeful to do together.

Your first line is a fair point. 'Well' to me equates to the finished product we want. To her perhaps it's the end to end experience that means more.

Aside from that, I don't think I can align with you on the rest. Building a home we will live in for the next decade at least, whether we pay hard earned cash for things we need to replace after moving in, or spend the time now making the right decisions, is certainly worth caring about for us. And seeking advice her on how to better work with my wife's personality is even more so time well spent over and above the context of this one example. Moving on to something else to rug sweep the problem isn't going to be productive long terms.

[BMI03]

On 7/5/2020 at 11:55 AM, Lotsgoingon said:

Tough one. I can't tell if the OP is simply willing to be flexible given a bunch of different circumstances and factors or ... if the OP is simply not as comfortable with confronting the contractors or designers as the wife is. You can lose out a lot in life when you go too far in avoiding confrontation. 

What bothers me is that neither of you has apparently gone to the meta-level, a level of thinking about how each of you thinks ... affirming how each of you thinks and then finding a compromise or one of you giving the other their way in this particular case (with the understanding that the compromising partner will make the next big decision when you two are at loggerheads.) 

You guys need to go meta for more clarity. This cannot be a one-time thing. Where else in the relationship have you guys had this kind of contrasting thinking? How have you resolved this? How can you find a method that will allow you to resolve this difference. I'm sensing that the wife isn't just tough as in a tough bargainer...  but is also rigid. That's a difficult combination to deal with in a partnership if she's not willing to compromise. 

 

 

You are correct. We don't get the opportunity in these cases to get there. In these cases it feels like the fact that this is my initial tendency on how to approach it, in and of itself is frustrating (offensive even?) to her. I mentioned in another response, she has a two-stage approach to most things as is...starting with an emotional outburst...followed by time alone, and then a more reasonable and logical conversation. I'm usually in the overly-calm logical mode right off the bat. So the way this unfolds is like this...in this case, builders ask us to sign the papers we can, and hold on the ones we have questions on. I, take that suggestion at face value to mention to my wife I will print the papers off. She is immediately in fight mode, asking why we have to fix their delay and that she hates that I feel I need to 'fix' the situation. I explain that I didn't think I had to fix anything...that there is a deadline that I feel we both (builder in some cases, and us in others) let pass, so we should make efforts to close it out. She tells me she doesn't understand why I need to be like that and hates when I am, teary eyed and rolling her eyes at me. I tell her I respect how she feels, and we do not need to sign until she is ready, that's ok, but if she wants to also understand 'why' I act that way and understand my position, I will try and explain it to her. I tell her I am not trying to change her mind, lets wait, but let me explain the way my mind is moving to try and complete the task...it's not panicked, but it likely is in fixing mode...it's trying to do what I can to de-risk.

Part of this may be that I come from a Management Consulting career. I work with project plans, timelines, deadlines, risk identification, mitigation, etc. To me it's as simple as trying to de-risk. She's a physician. There is a lot of science in there, but a lot of art too...she needs to roll with the people-element, and have hard conversations. There is something to be said about your point on avoiding conflict. I definitely stray from the 'who's to blame' side of things, focusing more on where we go from here, especially when I perceive us to hold an element of blame as well. She is ready to fight at the drop of a hat, even if she has to figure out later whether the confrontation was deserved or not (shoot first, ask questions later).

[BMI03]

On 7/5/2020 at 8:27 PM, ShyViolet said:

So if I understand this correctly, you guys have all the selections picked out and finalized, except for one which had a discrepancy... and the builders would like you to sign off on all of the selections except that one, so they can correct that one later.... and your wife wants to refuse to sign off on anything until it's all straightened out?

I kind of agree with you on this one.... in life we all need to be flexible.  If you have all of the selections picked out except one, why wouldn't you sign off on the ones that are ready to go, so they can do what they need to do in order to move forward with those.  It seems unnecessarily rigid to refuse to sign off on anything until it's all perfect, and I agree with you that maybe that approach could compromise the progress of the project.

Your understanding is correct, yes. One outstanding item. The builder has informed us that they have trades on standby but can't put them to work yet until they receive the signature.

In the mean time, they have answered our questions on the one item to my satisfaction, and so we are going ahead to sign all today. That said, this is less about the specifics of this case, so much as it is a case study on the larger issue of us agreeing on most everything overall, except every now and then these cases where we are completely coming at something from different sides, and the initial impact of it is almost overwhelming or insulting to her so much that it puts us into a 'time-out' of sorts for 4-6 hours, if not 24 hours.

[BMI03]

On 7/5/2020 at 8:30 PM, major_merrick said:

I try to make things simple.

If I/we are paying the money, then the builders get to dance to our tune whether they like it or not.  Demand what you want, do it your way.

That's a fair approach to take, but I am not sure I would be comfortable when the contractual obligation is on the side of their choosing to move forward with their standard designs, and the outcome is us having a house void of all the special things we wanted to make it our own. 

 

[BMI03]

On 7/6/2020 at 7:04 AM, BaileyB said:

Except, everything kind of blends together... the countertops will depend on the cupboards you choose... The paint will depend on the flooring, etc... Perhaps she is like me, and just needs to see it all come together before signing off on this last thing? Just a thought, we don’t know what it is...

Fair point. In this case it's not related to other selections, but again, fair. There is a comfort that comes with knowing you are covering it all at once. There is a lot going on so it may mean ease of mental management of it all. I get that, and like I said I have told her we don't sign until she is comfortable. So less about getting to a resolution there...more about why she could be so bothered that I even think this way and why such an emotional trigger.

[BMI03]

On 7/6/2020 at 7:22 AM, d0nnivain said:

Every construction project is a series of contracts, breeches & renegotiations.  The deadlines are all artificial, imposed by the contractor to create some artificial sense of when the company can go on to another project.  

When DH & I remodeled our kitchen, we started in July 2015.  We were having people over for Thanksgiving that year.  It was supposed to be a 6 week project so completed by Labor Day in my mind, as I always knew 6 weeks was ambitious.  Instead we finished the Wednesday before Thanksgiving almost 5 months later.  There were fights.  There was stress. There were tears.  Heck at one point I got carbon monoxide poisoning.  

Both you & your wife are right.  My advice:  focus on your marriage not what you are building.  Big construction projects take patience.  Especially because your approach seems to be adding to her stress, just let her take the lead.  At the end of this you want to come out with a marriage, right?  

Great advice. I don't see this as a marriage risk...but I do see it as an area where an element of who I am and how I operate naturally, causes her added stress like you suggested for sure. Enough so that she seems bothered just by that tendency to act this way alone, enough to need to shut down for a period even if it comes with my adjusting to tell her we can do it her way, which I did in this case. 

My worry is that I am going against my natural grain in cases like this simply to calm the waters. Someone else mentioned perhaps a tendency to not want to confront the builder. That's fair, but I think here it's almost a case of not confronting my wife as well. Because when I try to explain why I feel that way (even with the prefix of telling her I'm agreeing to do it her way, and just helping her understand why I think otherwise, to answer her question), she seems overwhelmed and I need to back off. So we end up making a decision I disagree with just to keep her calm. She comes back later a bit more middle ground and can consume some of what I am getting at, find some middle ground usually, but its frustrating and makes me afraid of what the next emotional mine in the minefield may be. 

The Management Consultant in me has a hard time reading your comment on construction projects being a series of contracts, breeches & renegotiation. My career is made holding people accountable to timelines and deliverable in order to achieve projects on schedule, so I struggle to accept that completely , but I think I get the point you are getting at. 

Thanks again

[major_merrick]

1 hour ago, BMI03 said:

That's a fair approach to take, but I am not sure I would be comfortable when the contractual obligation is on the side of their choosing to move forward with their standard designs, and the outcome is us having a house void of all the special things we wanted to make it our own.

Then go outside the contract.  Some things can suddenly become "difficult" and hamper their efforts until you get what you need.  Passive-aggressive.

[Lotsgoingon]

Sounds like you are acknowledging her thinking style and are being flexible there ... but doesn't sound like she is reciprocating by respecting your thinking style and your willingness to compromise with her.

Be careful by the way: be careful about being the one who always calms the waters. That can put you in a straight jacket. Let her be upset. I can't make heads or tails about her being a doctor. I mean doctors come in all shades and sizes as far as flexibility is concerned. I don't know if it's specialty by specialty but lots of doctors are incredibly flexible. They know their patient is not going to do x and y ... so they encourage the patient to take a few steps towards x and y and so on. 

I'm hoping your wife hasn't always been like this in the relationship. You can bring up the subject of compromise--and that you have a right to your thinking, especially when you're not trying to unilaterally impose it.  You know ... any chance your wife has some emotional issues she needs to work on, on a temper? Some doctors are incredibly reluctant to go to therapy or go see a psychiatrist--a tendency I really think is ridiculous. As soon as i write this, I think, Oh man, your wife is not the type of person you can raise such a suggestion to. 

I don't sense you're doing anything wrong. The truth is marriages have to compromise 50-50 ... and that means sometimes we have to do something and often something big that we don't like to do ... because the two people have the right to equal voice and equal power.  Your wife needs to put a little distance between having a strong feeling and preference ... and her conviction that she's right and that you're wrong. 

You may be at a new and important point in the marriage--where you guys have to learn how to respect your differing styles and differing approaches.  At some point, though, I think you may need to confront her about her fits. And you need to maybe NOT back down when she throws her little tantrum. You may need to surface the conflict a little more to get her to be more flexible. And if she's convinced she's 100 percent right all the time and won't agree to compromise and discuss differences in a gentle and constructive way, then you need to leave her. Sorry to be so blunt. 

[curlygirl40]

So I'm understanding that the building the house thing is more of an example of this issue vs what you're venting/looking for advice on.   

My first thought when I read this is that  'You can be right, or you can be happy'.    I think sometimes people take a stand because they believe they are right.  Right fighters.    So yes, she is correct that there were days of no contact, days you did what you were supposed to do, etc., etc.   But just because that is true (she is right) does not make the process any easier to cause delays just because you are right.   At the end of the day, does that make you happier?   Probably not.   

Maybe she thinks that she is taking a stand to prove a point, but in the long run, does it make you happy to prove that point and then maybe suffer the consequences later?   Sometimes it's easier to just push it aside.

My 2 cents.    

Also, building a house and making all of those decisions is insanely difficult.  I commend both of you for being able to do it and keeping your marriage intact.  lol   

[BMI03]

19 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

Sounds like you are acknowledging her thinking style and are being flexible there ... but doesn't sound like she is reciprocating by respecting your thinking style and your willingness to compromise with her.

Be careful by the way: be careful about being the one who always calms the waters. That can put you in a straight jacket. Let her be upset. I can't make heads or tails about her being a doctor. I mean doctors come in all shades and sizes as far as flexibility is concerned. I don't know if it's specialty by specialty but lots of doctors are incredibly flexible. They know their patient is not going to do x and y ... so they encourage the patient to take a few steps towards x and y and so on. 

I'm hoping your wife hasn't always been like this in the relationship. You can bring up the subject of compromise--and that you have a right to your thinking, especially when you're not trying to unilaterally impose it.  You know ... any chance your wife has some emotional issues she needs to work on, on a temper? Some doctors are incredibly reluctant to go to therapy or go see a psychiatrist--a tendency I really think is ridiculous. As soon as i write this, I think, Oh man, your wife is not the type of person you can raise such a suggestion to. 

I don't sense you're doing anything wrong. The truth is marriages have to compromise 50-50 ... and that means sometimes we have to do something and often something big that we don't like to do ... because the two people have the right to equal voice and equal power.  Your wife needs to put a little distance between having a strong feeling and preference ... and her conviction that she's right and that you're wrong. 

You may be at a new and important point in the marriage--where you guys have to learn how to respect your differing styles and differing approaches.  At some point, though, I think you may need to confront her about her fits. And you need to maybe NOT back down when she throws her little tantrum. You may need to surface the conflict a little more to get her to be more flexible. And if she's convinced she's 100 percent right all the time and won't agree to compromise and discuss differences in a gentle and constructive way, then you need to leave her. Sorry to be so blunt. 

Great analysis, thank you. Regarding your comment "...but doesn't sound like she is reciprocating by respecting your thinking style and your willingness to compromise with her."...she does...eventually. There is the conversation that inevitably comes after her stepping away for a few hours, where she is more reasonable and helps find the middle ground. In this case she took initiative to set up a call between us and the builder to help get my last question answered to satisfaction. So, she gets there. The bothersome part is that initial reaction, not because it's counter to my opinion but because my thinking differently seems to be received as almost offensive to her. It overwhelms here. And again, we agree on the vast majority of things, which is why when this happens it comes right out of left field for me and it's like hitting a wall at full speed ahead. She always comes around to the reasonable conversation, but that initial reaction is enough to leave me frustrated not knowing when the next case will come.

You are right on the emotional issues and temper with your question "...any chance your wife has some emotional issues she needs to work on, on a temper?". As I mentioned, she has depression and anxiety, having grown up in a 10 year civil war, and losing her single parent, she's had some hard times. Hard times she doesn't often recognize as hard because it's all she knew and her normal. She's come a long way, but long before I knew her, she had one period where suicide was a consideration (she never attempted it, but planned it). That's not where she is today at all, but she's aware of where she's been. She does have that fear of getting help formally for it...there is a stigma in the medical world to have that become known, but she has expressed she is open to it none the less. Less so for this specific issue but because she also has the temper you mention. She is Latin, and the Latin temper shows. Again, it's a two stage approach I think I have wrote about here before...and initial temper, followed by retracting herself to the bedroom, and then a more reasonable conversation 2, 4, 24 hours later. To be fair, her temper isn't violent, or explosive. Condescending and patronizing is a better way to describe it. It may be more a problem because I am pretty unemotional and analytic style type...which may be both the problem in this specific case, but also why a real debate between us in this initial stage is difficult when I am coming at it with logic and pragmatism and she is coming at it with emotion and standing for what's right in principle. 

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2 hours ago, curlygirl40 said:

So I'm understanding that the building the house thing is more of an example of this issue vs what you're venting/looking for advice on.   

My first thought when I read this is that  'You can be right, or you can be happy'.    I think sometimes people take a stand because they believe they are right.  Right fighters.    So yes, she is correct that there were days of no contact, days you did what you were supposed to do, etc., etc.   But just because that is true (she is right) does not make the process any easier to cause delays just because you are right.   At the end of the day, does that make you happier?   Probably not.   

Maybe she thinks that she is taking a stand to prove a point, but in the long run, does it make you happy to prove that point and then maybe suffer the consequences later?   Sometimes it's easier to just push it aside.

My 2 cents.    

Also, building a house and making all of those decisions is insanely difficult.  I commend both of you for being able to do it and keeping your marriage intact.  lol   

I am not sure I knew in the moment of my initial post, but yes, that's correct. This is just the latest case example, but the core bothersome point to me which I want to find a way to improve is the overly (in my opinion, but perhaps not hers) emotional disdain that she reacts with to these infrequent, but reoccurring moments where her natural reaction is to push back for what she believes is 'right' in principle, when my natural reaction is to be pragmatic, de-risk, and try to move forward with the approach that I think will best set us up for achieving our goals. 

That 'You can be right, or you can be happy' is a great line. And I think that's the likely main take away here. I think at our core, because these feelings are built into our personality, that we likely both feel inside that we are 'right'. And I understand that from her side too, and respect it. She likely sees herself as truly 'right' in that holding people accountable for their actions is a morally honorable thing. To me, I feel truly 'right' in that I believe my approach gives us the best chance of achieving our goals. So perhaps it's a prioritization question, or as someone else put it, our perception of what 'the transaction going well' is different....'going well' for me is reaching our goal, but 'going well' for her may be getting through the process with her integrity and moral position.

Anyway, all the input has been great. Appreciate everyone who has taken time.