How do men and women romantically bond with each other?

[CaliforniaGirl]

7 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

Infatuation, that obsessive in-love feeling, is only designed to last about 2 years, just long enough to produce a child and raise it to toddler-hood. You can use certain hacks to extend it. For example, engaging in new and novel activities together stimulates the same brain chemistry and can make you feel in love all over again.

I've always wondered about this common wisdom because it assumes people get pregnant immediately. Even if the woman got pregnant on the first date, the baby would only be 14.5 months old when it "wore off" - and that is barely into toddlerhood. And that's only going to be a small percentage. Women in their 20s have only a 15-20% chance of getting pregnant in any given month. All the rest of the babies will not even be into toddlerhood. Some will be baby-babies, like 9 months...or 6...etc.

[sothereiwas]

12 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

I've always wondered about this common wisdom because it assumes people get pregnant immediately.

There has been research done using FMRI and other tools that suggests humans have at least 3 distinct regions of the brain that are involved in pair bonding, and each region has a time period associated with it. The first one runs from essentially zero to a couple years, and has been theorized to be an adaptation to encourage pregnancy. The second area lights up during that phase, and lasts 7-15 years IIRC, and the third I forget. But It's pretty clear what the first two could/would/do encourage. 

 

[Els]

Where exactly have you heard all these things that you heard? Personally, just not true for me, my husband is my best friend in the entire world, and I know many other women who feel the same way about their partner.

With platonic friends you can have strong bonds, but with a compatible partner (a man if she's hetero, a woman if she's homosexual), you will have that AND the allure of romantic and sexual attraction. Sounds like a no brainer to me.

[Ruby Slippers]

Biology pushes us to reproduce as quickly as possible, though with birth control and family planning, it doesn't usually happen that way. 

Some evolutionary psychologists say the highest-quality men are smart enough to get past the infatuation stage and nurture their offspring into adulthood - versus jumping from woman to woman and impregnating as many as possible / "spreading their seed". In other words, they suggest a quality over quantity approach is a better bet for producing offspring that will propagate the father's genes.

[CaliforniaGirl]

5 minutes ago, sothereiwas said:

There has been research done using FMRI and other tools that suggests humans have at least 3 distinct regions of the brain that are involved in pair bonding, and each region has a time period associated with it. The first one runs from essentially zero to a couple years, and has been theorized to be an adaptation to encourage pregnancy. The second area lights up during that phase, and lasts 7-15 years IIRC, and the third I forget. But It's pretty clear what the first two could/would/do encourage. 

 

Okay, this makes a lot more sense...having the child be old enough at least to run away before the couple abandons one another. 

[CaliforniaGirl]

4 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

Biology pushes us to reproduce as quickly as possible, though with birth control and family planning, it doesn't usually happen that way. 

Some evolutionary psychologists say the highest-quality men are smart enough to get past the infatuation stage and nurture their offspring into adulthood - versus jumping from woman to woman and impregnating as many as possible / "spreading their seed". In other words, they suggest a quality over quantity approach is a better bet for producing offspring that will propagate the father's genes.

Quality over quantity, and long-term v. short-term, seem to increase the more intelligent the primate species (overall). So IOW, humans have the longest infancy period (dependency period) among the apes. And our children have the longest period of time to just keep observing and learning and mentally growing because they're not forced to run away from predators and find food from a very early age.

In order to accomplish this, there needs to be a group to handle all the babies while somebody feeds them. With some primates it's a same-gender group (i.e. the females all live in a big protective group but then are "visited" occasionally by the males), for some it's one male at the helm and a group of females, for some it's mixed - like a huge family, so to speak, and for humans, it means at the very least, couple pairing.

It pretty much never means, the woman is alone, and she's just getting the kid to a point where it can run away from predators before the male or other females take off. That just doesn't make sense. Even after "infancy" (technically 7 years in humans...I think...after which the juvenile period begins), kids can easily get...well, eaten. They're loud. They aren't as observant of danger as adults, their brains just aren't there yet. There are pretty much NO mom-and-kids groupings, exclusively, in the primate world.

For us, it's men plus women, usually. At one time that included extended families; a tribe. Today it is at the very very least a nuclear family. Even though we're no longer running away from tigers (usually), if we're talking biology and instinct, humans have the most "quality" if you will in the sense of: longer childhoods, observation of both sexes so it can imitate ALL survival behavior, and the ability to grow and develop other than physically because the mother isn't alone trying to get her babies to survive.

In humans, males have probably been around long-term for greater than 800,000 years and as pair-bonding or else as one man with a group of women (very rarely the opposite), for the advent of H. Sapiens sapiens if not longer - a minimum of 300,000 years.

For most of our primate history and all of our human history, guys have stuck around.

[basil67]

14 hours ago, SuperHeroMan said:

They may connect differently with other women than they do with men, but it still seems that the connection they have with other women is a lot better than the connection they have with men. 

yeah....no.   While my close female friends do serve a purpose in my life, my hubby is my bestest friend.   We know each other so well that I can look at his body language and figure out if he's hungry or is contemplating exercise or wants a beer or is gonna fart.   That kind of connection is never going to happen with another woman.

[Zona]

If you're a dog lover, that warm feeling you get when looking into your dog's eyes is the result of oxytocin. Dogs produce it when they look into your eyes too. I believe dogs are the only animal to produce oxytocin in their interactions with us. That's why we can bond so deeply with a dog, it's a mutual love.

Edited July 8, 2020 by Zona

[sothereiwas]

Cats also produce oxytocin (note, I'm more a dog person) and I strongly suspect most mammals share a lot of chemistry. 

[SuperHeroMan]

This is mostly hypothetical, although there may some science to this:

Men have approximately 6.5 times more gray matter in the brain than women, but women have about 10 times more white matter than men do - white matter is used to regulate connectivity and mental communication.

This potentially means that men might be more capable of isolated processing of information, while women tend to continually be more "in touch" with overall awareness, including what would be defined as feelings.

Some fMRI studies show support for this in a controlled study involving a simple money game.

Men appear to make a decision according to what is "reasonable" or "rational" to them at the time, and then proceed to affirm it internally. Women both consider many more factors, and be more flexible about their decisions but also generally less firm.

This might account for some differences in "feeling" and overall impact on decision-making.

The science is still in its infancy, however, and this is mostly wild speculation to my knowledge.

Finally - always consider the risks of self-reporting; assuming some of the findings above are true...

Women seem to be able to identify emotion better and therefore are both more likely in theory to act on a feeling as well as realize that they are acting on a feeling.

Men are much more likely to be completely unaware that they are acting on a feeling, and later self-justify it as a rational activity. At the very least, the research shows that men have smaller portions of the brain used to control aggression and anger, which is indeed a kind of emotion as well.

[SuperHeroMan]

Some interesting articles:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/men-vs-women-communication-styles-explained_b_59dc8d69e4b060f005fbd6ab?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAEnNYHiD3P-CNXrPWGiKaQeqRu3H_WRVE8Bmg6jksMvOwDS7QL-NI0EsYNctrNbt2ItZSbuG-J4Ej0ASvfeqT_5lwLEXVwunFSlkNTRky5gQbPVTzwQcigfwWgyzipWEQxPC_hCdLwM7vpbtDXZ_k11uiGMKts61H59Q1byjtvw5

https://www.loopline-systems.com/en/blog-en/the-differences-between-male-and-female-communication-style-in-workplace

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolkinseygoman/2016/03/31/is-your-communication-style-dictated-by-your-gender/#7b9b8e4feb9d

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/so-happy-together/201904/male-and-female-brains#:~:text=The male brain is wired,hemispheres are more inter-connected.

https://stanmed.stanford.edu/2017spring/how-mens-and-womens-brains-are-different.html

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/319592#Different-brain-activation-patterns

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/dec/02/men-women-brains-wired-differently

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-25198063

[SuperHeroMan]

There's also these articles:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-couch/201807/do-men-and-women-do-friendship-differently

https://www.upworthy.com/men-and-women-do-friendship-differently-maybe-its-time-for-that-to-change

https://exploringyourmind.com/friendship-women-different/

https://www.deseret.com/2015/4/21/20563175/the-difference-between-male-and-female-friendships#when-it-comes-to-building-friendships-men-are-more-likely-to-return-to-their-clique-y-roots-than-women-according-to-a-recent-study-published-in-the-journal-plos-one

https://www.newstalk.com/news/whats-the-difference-between-male-and-female-friendships-536041

https://madamenoire.com/579223/differences-male-female-friendships/

https://lifestyle.allwomenstalk.com/differences-between-male-and-female-friendships/

Edited September 6, 2020 by SuperHeroMan

[SuperHeroMan]

Here's a quote from this article https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/men-bad-friendship-harms-health#4-scientific-reasons-men-have-a-hard-time-maintaining-friendships about men's brains may not being wired for much connection

"A 2014 study found that males had stronger neural connections in the parts of the brain responsible for perception and action, while females had better connectivity along the neural pathways linking analytics to intuition — two areas used heavily in interpersonal connection.

Before this study, differences in these kinds of neural pathways had never been highlighted among such a large sample size (949 individuals)."

[SuperHeroMan]

Here's a quote from this article https://www.deseret.com/2015/4/21/20563175/the-difference-between-male-and-female-friendships#when-it-comes-to-building-friendships-men-are-more-likely-to-return-to-their-clique-y-roots-than-women-according-to-a-recent-study-published-in-the-journal-plos-one:

"So why are men and women different in the way they make friends? One hypothesis is the difference between the male and female brain.

Typically, women tend to have a larger deep limbic system than their male counterparts. The limbic system is a network of nerves in the brain connected to instinct and mood. The limbic system controls basic emotions such as happiness and fear. Because this system tends to be larger in women, females are more in touch with their feelings and have an increased ability to connect individually with others."

[SuperHeroMan]

9 hours ago, SuperHeroMan said:

Here's a quote from this article https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/men-bad-friendship-harms-health#4-scientific-reasons-men-have-a-hard-time-maintaining-friendships about men's brains may not being wired for much connection

"A 2014 study found that males had stronger neural connections in the parts of the brain responsible for perception and action, while females had better connectivity along the neural pathways linking analytics to intuition — two areas used heavily in interpersonal connection.

Before this study, differences in these kinds of neural pathways had never been highlighted among such a large sample size (949 individuals)."

Here's an article that also talks about the study:

https://www.pnas.org/content/111/2/823

[major_merrick]

Why/How do men and women bond with each other?  I honestly have NO DAMN CLUE. 

For me and my husband, it was friendship.  We grew up together, needed each other, went through tough times together.  He took care of me when nobody else would.  A relationship was a logical extension of our friendship and trust. 

I bond with other girls pretty easily.  Soft, cuddly, cute, understanding.... that's pretty easy. 

[sothereiwas]

The why overall is simply so enough of us have grandkids. Everything else is either extraneous or part of the how, not the why. 

[chillii]

On 7/8/2020 at 5:38 AM, Elswyth said:

Where exactly have you heard all these things that you heard? Personally, just not true for me, my husband is my best friend in the entire world, and I know many other women who feel the same way about their partner.

With platonic friends you can have strong bonds, but with a compatible partner (a man if she's hetero, a woman if she's homosexual), you will have that AND the allure of romantic and sexual attraction. Sounds like a no brainer to me.

 

Exactly . All this dribble and 10x over analyzing the ins and outs of such natural stuff is just effg ridiculous , and the net is full of it. Think it all comes from people that just haven't had it or can't get it no matter what they do. My ex w was my best friend and l was hers , way above anything we could either of us have with our other friends and in many ways we still are. And my fiance now and l are exactly the same. Yeah women cuddle their friends and tell them everything and so do a lot of guys but it's a totally different thing. The depth and connection , affection, intimacy, commitment all of it, is on a whole nother plane, another planet , than just friendships women with women men with men, for both of you, if you have a good relationship. lt's a world above 10x more than children or security or whatever else they wanna dissect it into and explain it away with.

Ask a women or man in a real relationship or marriage and they;ll tell you things just like Elswyth has, why do you think most women want to be in a committed and special relationship and sure l know not all before anyone jumps all over that but most l've ever known or friends have known have. Of course there's plenty of couples that don't have that too but that's only because there's also a lot of pretty shytty couples out there as well.

 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by chillii

[SuperHeroMan]

16 hours ago, chillii said:

 

Exactly . All this dribble and 10x over analyzing the ins and outs of such natural stuff is just effg ridiculous , and the net is full of it. Think it all comes from people that just haven't had it or can't get it no matter what they do. My ex w was my best friend and l was hers , way above anything we could either of us have with our other friends and in many ways we still are. And my fiance now and l are exactly the same. Yeah women cuddle their friends and tell them everything and so do a lot of guys but it's a totally different thing. The depth and connection , affection, intimacy, commitment all of it, is on a whole nother plane, another planet , than just friendships women with women men with men, for both of you, if you have a good relationship. lt's a world above 10x more than children or security or whatever else they wanna dissect it into and explain it away with.

Ask a women or man in a real relationship or marriage and they;ll tell you things just like Elswyth has, why do you think most women want to be in a committed and special relationship and sure l know not all before anyone jumps all over that but most l've ever known or friends have known have. Of course there's plenty of couples that don't have that too but that's only because there's also a lot of pretty shytty couples out there as well.

 

 

 

You don't think the articles and research are true?

Here's a quote from this article https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/men-bad-friendship-harms-health#4-scientific-reasons-men-have-a-hard-time-maintaining-friendships about men's brains may not being wired for much connection

"A 2014 study found that males had stronger neural connections in the parts of the brain responsible for perception and action, while females had better connectivity along the neural pathways linking analytics to intuition — two areas used heavily in interpersonal connection.

Before this study, differences in these kinds of neural pathways had never been highlighted among such a large sample size (949 individuals)."

Here's an article that also talks about the study: https://www.pnas.org/content/111/2/823

Here's a quote from this article https://www.deseret.com/2015/4/21/20563175/the-difference-between-male-and-female-friendships#when-it-comes-to-building-friendships-men-are-more-likely-to-return-to-their-clique-y-roots-than-women-according-to-a-recent-study-published-in-the-journal-plos-one:

"So why are men and women different in the way they make friends? One hypothesis is the difference between the male and female brain.

Typically, women tend to have a larger deep limbic system than their male counterparts. The limbic system is a network of nerves in the brain connected to instinct and mood. The limbic system controls basic emotions such as happiness and fear. Because this system tends to be larger in women, females are more in touch with their feelings and have an increased ability to connect individually with others."

 

Here's some more articles:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/men-vs-women-communication-styles-explained_b_59dc8d69e4b060f005fbd6ab?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAEnNYHiD3P-CNXrPWGiKaQeqRu3H_WRVE8Bmg6jksMvOwDS7QL-NI0EsYNctrNbt2ItZSbuG-J4Ej0ASvfeqT_5lwLEXVwunFSlkNTRky5gQbPVTzwQcigfwWgyzipWEQxPC_hCdLwM7vpbtDXZ_k11uiGMKts61H59Q1byjtvw5

https://www.loopline-systems.com/en/blog-en/the-differences-between-male-and-female-communication-style-in-workplace

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolkinseygoman/2016/03/31/is-your-communication-style-dictated-by-your-gender/#7b9b8e4feb9d

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/so-happy-together/201904/male-and-female-brains#:~:text=The male brain is wired,hemispheres are more inter-connected.

https://stanmed.stanford.edu/2017spring/how-mens-and-womens-brains-are-different.html\

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/319592#Different-brain-activation-patterns

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/dec/02/men-women-brains-wired-differently

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-25198063

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-couch/201807/do-men-and-women-do-friendship-differently

https://www.upworthy.com/men-and-women-do-friendship-differently-maybe-its-time-for-that-to-change

https://exploringyourmind.com/friendship-women-different/

https://www.deseret.com/2015/4/21/20563175/the-difference-between-male-and-female-friendships#when-it-comes-to-building-friendships-men-are-more-likely-to-return-to-their-clique-y-roots-than-women-according-to-a-recent-study-published-in-the-journal-plos-one

https://www.newstalk.com/news/whats-the-difference-between-male-and-female-friendships-536041

https://madamenoire.com/579223/differences-male-female-friendships/

https://lifestyle.allwomenstalk.com/differences-between-male-and-female-friendships/

Edited September 9, 2020 by SuperHeroMan

[SuperHeroMan]

Also, I heard that when friendships between women go bad, it is as painful and depressing as romantic loss, yet society does not write poems and films about it: a straight woman can’t show up at a bar and say “I broke up with my friend Alice,” and have the bartender automatically understand and pour her a whiskey, yet you recognize that scene from a thousand films where a man loses the woman he loves.

 

Also, here's another article: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/happiness-is-state-mind/201808/the-importance-female-friendships-among-women

[SuperHeroMan]

I did a lot of research, and it seems overall that girls and guys are just not very compatible with each other.

 

 

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

4 minutes ago, SuperHeroMan said:

I did a lot of research, and it seems overall that girls and guys are just not very compatible with each other.

 

 

Thousands and thousands of divorce attorneys count on it!

[Els]

1 hour ago, SuperHeroMan said:

I did a lot of research, and it seems overall that girls and guys are just not very compatible with each other.

Look, hun, if you want to hook up with another man, nobody is stopping you...

Edited September 25, 2020 by Elswyth

[SuperHeroMan]

34 minutes ago, Elswyth said:

Look, hun, if you want to hook up with another man, nobody is stopping you...

I'm not gay, so that's never going to happen. 

[sothereiwas]

On 9/25/2020 at 9:13 AM, SuperHeroMan said:

I did a lot of research, and it seems overall that girls and guys are just not very compatible with each other.

"Not not sure I agree with you 100% on your police work, there, Lou." - Fargo