Second Affair Child

[stillafool]

On 7/27/2020 at 10:31 PM, Wildflower201 said:

 

This morning, MM's wife contacted me to let me know that he will pay child support, and that seeing the children "is not going to work", so he won't be seeing them going forward. She said that he is done doing things his own way. So. 

This is good news for you isn't it?  You said in a previous post that you did not want to fight for child support you just wanted him to leave you and your kids alone.  This statement shows you will get your child support and they have no intention of seeking part time custody of your kids.  This is what you wanted, right?

[BaileyB]

25 minutes ago, Wildflower201 said:

I regret ever letting him be a part of our son's life. I really think it would be better if he never knew him. 

Hopefully, when this new baby comes, he will just let us be so that things won't get worse. 

No. You make the decision that he will not be a part of your children’s lives. 

He comes around again, giving you the idea that he wants to see your children and/or be a part of their lives and you tell him to go away. Legally, if possible.

[stillafool]

On 7/26/2020 at 9:36 PM, Wildflower201 said:

I would rather it be taken out of my hands entirely. It would be better, for me if me and my children just never saw or heard from him again. 

This is exactly what you're going to get now according to his wife.  Now you can move on without fear.

[Wildflower201]

22 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

Oh wildflower, I was afraid that this was what you meant. 

This man and his family are TRASH for not doing right by your children. Those children are innocent! Their parents have made mistakes,  up your children deserve to be loved and they are worthy just by their very existence in this world. So are you. 

He hurt you effortlessly, but that is a reflection of HIS CHARACTER not your worth of value as a person. The fact that he hurt you effortlessly is unfortunately also a reflection of your opinion of your worth and value as a person - because if you actually valued yourself more, you wouldn’t have allowed it. And THAT is why you need to get yourself to a counsellor. I’m glad that you have reached out. It takes strength to do that, it is the single best thing you could ever do for yourself and your children (with the only other exception being ending contact with this man).

His wife is not worth more than you, or your children. He has chosen to be with them, but that is different than saying they are “worth” more than you or your children. And again, I would chose to be healthy and alone every. single. day rather than being in an abusive relationship with this man. 

Respectfully, you need to get yourself together because you simply can NOT pass on your own issues to your children. YOU may feel less than, and unworthy, but they need to feel like they are loved and worthy of being loved. To give them any other message - that somehow their father did not want them, that they are not worthy of love, that they are somehow deserving of being treated poorly because of the circumstances surrounding their birth and their very existence is child abuse. You may be only one person but you are the most important person in their lives. You have the love and support of your mother and your sister and her family... that’s all they need to feel healthy and happy. But, their mother needs to be healthy and happy - and right now you are neither. That should be your focus right now, surround yourself with love and support so that you can be happy and healthy for your children. 

I don't want them to think that they don't deserve love or that they are worthless. 

I just...don't want them to go into the world, into life believing that people will return the love that they give. I don't want them to end up like me. I don't want them to believe that people love and care about them and end up being hurt and thrown away because they came from a mistress. 

Before I was a mom, the excuse for why I deserved less was because I came from a single mom. People will feel justified in hurting them because they came from me. 

I was a happy go lucky, love believing idiot. I didn't believe in hurting people or retaliation or even putting myself first. I was kind and open and loving. This is where I ended up. In a cycle with someone who doesn't care about me at all. 

I want them to know that people will lie about loving them. People will hurt them. So they know. So they won't end up in a cycle with their own father or anyone else. 

I grew up in a small bubble of loved ones who were there, but didn't really talk to me about these things. I just loved people not understanding why they wanted to hurt me, but constantly seeking to understand and embrace their way of thinking. I want them to know to stay away. 

Edited August 2, 2020 by Wildflower201

[Wildflower201]

12 minutes ago, stillafool said:

This is good news for you isn't it?  You said in a previous post that you did not want to fight for child support you just wanted him to leave you and your kids alone.  This statement shows you will get your child support and they have no intention of seeking part time custody of your kids.  This is what you wanted, right?

Yes, but with him, this is normal. This is how it always happened. The last time there was no child support, but he said that he was done with me and our son. He was making the decision to commit to his marriage. Eight months later, he contacted me repeatedly under the guise of loving our son all of a sudden. 

Before our son, it was a regular occurrence that be would disappear for months and reappear later on. This is what he does. I am never safe.

I can move on as I have done over and over and over, but I'm never safe. 

11 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

No. You make the decision that he will not be a part of your children’s lives. 

He comes around again, giving you the idea that he wants to see your children and/or be a part of their lives and you tell him to go away. Legally, if possible.

That is my plan. No more chances with the kids, because he has only used them to get to me and cause more pain. 

10 minutes ago, stillafool said:

This is exactly what you're going to get now according to his wife.  Now you can move on without fear.

His wife...isn't capable of speaking for him. She has tried before. He does what he wants as soon as everything is calm again. We have been doing this back and forth since 2006.

One of the last texts I have from him states that he will be a part of his children's lives. In the end, while blaming me for the entire affair, he continually claimed he didn't want to lose our son.

Yes, I will move on. Without fear? No.  

 

[BaileyB]

23 minutes ago, Wildflower201 said:

I was a happy go lucky, love believing woman. I was kind and open and loving. This is where I ended up.

I’m sorry that these men have hurt you. I’m sorry that you don’t feel you can be kind, and open, and loving anymore. 

You made a few poor decisions, you trusted men that you should not have trusted. And, you stayed far too long... 

That doesn’t mean that people are bad. It means that you trusted the wrong men. 

I’m glad you will start some counselling. Your life mission is going to be to get back to the place where you can be kind, and open, and loving again - but, you need to do it with a little more wisdom and not so blindly next time. Not everyone is worthy of your trust, but many people are...

Quote

People will feel justified in hurting them because they came from me. 

People are never justified in hurting your children because they came from you. Your children should never be made to feel this way. 

Quote

 

I just...don't want them to go into the world, into life believing that people will return the love that they give. I don't want them to end up like me. I don't want them to believe that people love and care about them and end up being hurt and thrown away.

I want them to know that people will lie about loving them. People will hurt them.

I grew up in a small bubble of loved ones who were there, but didn't really talk to me about these things. I just loved people not understanding why they wanted to hurt me. I want them to know to stay away. 

 

With kindness, but a little tough love - you will emotionally cripple your children if you teach them this. You simply can not take your pain, and depression, and lack of self worth and self esteem and pass that on to your children... Not even with the intention of “protecting them.” You are not protecting them, you are hurting them if you give them this message. It is child abuse. 

If you want to protect your children, teach them to trust wisely. Teach them that there is good in this world, that there is love in this world, but that they can’t just blindly trust everyone. Teach them to develop healthy boundaries with people. Help them to develop the strength to end a relationship if they are hurt by another person. Help them to develop the resiliency to deal with life’s disappointments and losses. 

The sad reality is, you have none of those skills right now. You trusted blindly, you didn’t enforce healthy boundaries with this man, and you are struggling to find the strength and resiliency to end the relationship and move forward in a healthy and happy way. THIS is why you need counselling, you can’t teach children something you do not know. 

But, to make them afraid, to tell them not to trust and to stay away from relationships with other people, to teach them that there is no joy or happiness to be found in the world or in relationships is damaging to a child. It’s abusive. Please, work with your counsellor and tell her how you feel... 

Edited August 2, 2020 by BaileyB

[stillafool]

9 minutes ago, Wildflower201 said:

Yes, but with him, this is normal. This is how it always happened. The last time there was no child support, but he said that he was done with me and our son. He was making the decision to commit to his marriage. Eight months later, he contacted me repeatedly under the guise of loving our son all of a sudden. 

Then don't let this be YOUR normal anymore.  Thank his wife for agreeing you need child support and tell her you will be talking to an attorney to set up arrangements.  Then no more contact with either of them.  Let the attorney do the work.  You never have to speak with MM again.  No matter what he threatens he does not want those kids.

9 minutes ago, Wildflower201 said:

His wife...isn't capable of speaking for him. She has tried before. He does what he wants as soon as everything is calm again. We have been doing this back and forth since 2006.

 

Actually she is.  It is their money that will be paid for your children.  Since she agrees child support is what you should have only speak to her and your attorney.  There is no reason for you to interact with MM again.  You are in control of what he does to you and to stay away from him.

Edited August 2, 2020 by stillafool

[BaileyB]

19 minutes ago, Wildflower201 said:

Before our son, it was a regular occurrence that be would disappear for months and reappear later on. This is what he does. I am never safe.

I can move on as I have done over and over and over, but I'm never safe. 

He may come knocking at your door, but you are the person who opens the door. 

YOU have control here. YOU make the decision to not ever see him again. 

Your lawyer can help you with this. Like Stillafool says, his wife gave you the opening to file for child support. Say hank you and tell her your lawyer will be in touch. Then, you NEVER talk to them again. EVERYTHING goes through the lawyer. File a protection order if needed.

[Wildflower201]

17 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

I’m sorry that these men have hurt you. I’m sorry that you don’t feel you can be kind, and open, and loving anymore. 

You made a few poor decisions, you trusted men that you should not have trusted. And, you stayed far too long... 

That doesn’t mean that people are bad. It means that you trusted the wrong men. 

I’m glad you will start some counselling. Your life mission is going to be to get back to the place where you can be kind, and open, and loving again - but, you need to do it with a little more wisdom and not so blindly next time. Not everyone is worthy of your trust, but many people are...

People are never justified in hurting your children because they came from you. Your children should never be made to feel this way. 

With kindness, but a little tough love - you will emotionally cripple your children if you teach them this. You simply can not take your pain, and depression, and lack of self worth and self esteem and pass that on to your children... Not even with the intention of “protecting them.” You are not protecting them, you are hurting them if you give them this message. It is child abuse. 

If you want to protect your children, teach them to trust wisely. Teach them that there is good in this world, that there is love in this world, but that they can’t just blindly trust everyone. Teach them to develop healthy boundaries with people. Help them to develop the strength to end a relationship if they are hurt by another person. Help them to develop the resiliency to deal with life’s disappointments and losses. 

The sad reality is, you have none of those skills right now. You trusted blindly, you didn’t enforce healthy boundaries with this man, and you are struggling to find the strength and resiliency to end the relationship and move forward in a healthy and happy way. THIS is why you need counselling, you can’t teach children something you do not know. 

But, to make them afraid, to tell them not to trust and to stay away from relationships with other people, to teach them that there is no joy or happiness to be found in the world or in relationships is damaging to a child. It’s abusive. Please, work with your counsellor and tell her how you feel... 

It wasn't just them, Bailey. My dad knew I existed. He didn't want a ything to do with me. As an adult, he only spoke to me when he felt guilty. Never cared enough to really try. 

My uncle sexually abused me when I was a girl. 

I was punched in the face for the first time by a guy at 15. Raped by someone I went to highschool with at 17.

Shunned at church because my mom divorced my stepfather. He abused me regularly, spat in my face, sexualized me and choked me. 

A lifetime of it. Before I could really choose anything. It's always been this way. It's like so many people were in on a secret that no one ever told me. I don't want that for them. 

Oh, I'm not say it is justified to treat them a certain way. I'm saying other people will justify it. 

I want them to love and be loved. I believe that joy and happiness can be found, I just want them to really deeply understand how dangerous people can be. I want them to make people earn trust. I want them to know how to protect themselves and not follow their heart. 

It's wrong to want them to know that people are going to try to convince them that they deserve less...or deserve pain?

13 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Then don't let this be YOUR normal anymore.  Thank his wife for agreeing you need child support and tell her you will be talking to an attorney to set up arrangements.  Then no more contact with either of them.  Let the attorney do the work.  You never have to speak with MM again.  No matter what he threatens he does not want those kids.

Actually she is.  It is their money that will be paid for your children.  Since she agrees child support is what you should have only speak to her and your attorney.  There is no reason for you to interact with MM again.  You are in control of what he does to you and to stay away from him.

When she emailed again, I tried to be as respectful as possible to state that no further contact is needed. 

Oh no, I didn't mean about child support. I mean that she can't speak for him regarding supposedly wanting to see the kids. She has no real control there, and if he ever chose court she has no right or option to stop that. 

I'm trying to adjust to the ending of everything and sorting through the day to day emotions are hard. Sometimes I'm happy to be free and that it's out of my hands. Sometimes I am sad and miss the fantasy of him I held on to. 

I know it's for the best, logically. My heart wavers. 

I won't be doing anything to change the status quo, at all. I just hope he doesn't contact me. 

[Wildflower201]

19 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

He may come knocking at your door, but you are the person who opens the door. 

YOU have control here. YOU make the decision to not ever see him again. 

Your lawyer can help you with this. Like Stillafool says, his wife gave you the opening to file for child support. Say hank you and tell her your lawyer will be in touch. Then, you NEVER talk to them again. EVERYTHING goes through the lawyer. File a protection order if needed.

Right now, because this is new, I am heavily relying on him not coming back. I hope he doesn't come back. 

It wouldn't even make sense to, at this point. It's fine to be sad and have bad days for me because I can depend on him being gone. 

I'm thinking that if he stays gone long enough for me to get into therapy, finish out my pregnancy, get on my feet...that if he decided to come back, I would be strong enough to ignore him. 

[stillafool]

With all due respect you are still holding on to him.  You know without help he eventually will come back and that is what you want.  You have to decide what is best for your kids and mental health and do it.  Simple as that.  You and you alone are responsible for your kids mental health and well being.  Please make the steps to do what is best for them and take yourself out of it.

[Wildflower201]

I've always loved him. I've loved every person that's hurt me. It isn't different or special. It took me a long time to stop responding to my dad's breadcrumbs. It will take time for me to stop taking MM's. 

He is supposedly getting help and I really don't believe he will come back this time. I kept a baby he really didn't want and he would have to face that.

I miss a him that is not real, and I know, no matter the emotional upheaval. I'm going to get help. I wouldn't know how to fix myself without it. 

I appreciate you and Bailey. I really do. 

Edited August 2, 2020 by Wildflower201

[pepperbird]

2 hours ago, Wildflower201 said:

Lucky how?

I found a psychlogist near me. I haven't called yet because I am behind on work and frantically trying to finish. 

 

 

 

Last week,  I was ready to fight. I felt a little stronger.  I printed the child support paperwork,  found out all I needed to do.

Now, I'm just sad and tired. I don't want to fight against them. I don't want to push for anything. I just want to have my baby and be quiet.  

I know what they deserve. I know, but their own father doesn't care. Me and my children are invisible, unwanted,  and a nuisance. I just don't want to step out and fight for or about anything. We're trash to him and his extended family.  I wish my mother had explained that to me when I was younger instead of only trying to hide me away. 

When I would get upset about how MM treated me and our son and I'd speak up, he called it bullying. Me fighting for money will be no different,  and it would prove to everyone that he has reason to be afraid of me because I'll "come after him".

Well, according to what he said, it is my fault. He was afraid of me and that is why this continued.

My kids...should know the truth. Their mom is unwanted and because they came from me, people won't treat them well. Especially people related to them. Their dad just made a mistake, and he fixed it by leaving all of us to be with and around the people that deserve better.

I'm just tired. I miss him today and missing someone who treated me like this makes me feel worse. I don't deserve it. 

whoa there...that's your "truth" right now,  but I expect that will change. This man is a heel, an absolute heel.

[Wildflower201]

1 minute ago, pepperbird said:

whoa there...that's your "truth" right now,  but I expect that will change. This man is a heel, an absolute heel.

It would be nothing short of miraculous to me if my truth changed, but I've learned the my beliefs about life are so limited. 

At least I'm not the only one who thinks so. Thanks, pepperbird. 

[BaileyB]

Wildflower, words seem inadequate in offering comfort at this moment. You have been hurt so deeply and for so long that it’s not surprising that you feel the way you do. Like pepperbird, this may be your truth now but I hope it isn’t always your truth. 

I’m sending you strength tomorrow and you make your call. I hope you are able to find someone who can support you long term and has experience dealing with trauma. Just sending hugs. 

 

Edited August 2, 2020 by BaileyB

[Amethyst68]

Get a lawyer, get your child support and get it arranged to be deducted straight from his salary or through the state, whichever way works best. That way means you have no direct contact with him.

You also get restraining orders against him and his immediate family for you and your family. If he changes his mind about visitation then make him go through a third party for supervised visits, take 'you' out of the equation. You would not be part of the visit, ideally it would be a neutral third party.

You have to try and take the emotion out of this when you think about it. It's about what your children deserve to get financially from him. They also deserve a mother who's not exhausted from running herself ragged to make things meet. I know your sister is willing to help now but your children are babies, you have at least another 18 years and things are only going to get  more expensive.

On that note when negotiating child support remember to factor in their college years.

[stillafool]

^^^Please take the above advice!  When you start feeling sorry for yourself over past failed loves redirect that thought to your children.  Men come and go and MM probably will be no where to be found when you get old but your children will be there for you.  

[Wildflower201]

On 8/2/2020 at 6:23 PM, stillafool said:

^^^Please take the above advice!  When you start feeling sorry for yourself over past failed loves redirect that thought to your children.  Men come and go and MM probably will be no where to be found when you get old but your children will be there for you.  

 

On 8/2/2020 at 4:18 PM, Amethyst68 said:

Get a lawyer, get your child support and get it arranged to be deducted straight from his salary or through the state, whichever way works best. That way means you have no direct contact with him.

You also get restraining orders against him and his immediate family for you and your family. If he changes his mind about visitation then make him go through a third party for supervised visits, take 'you' out of the equation. You would not be part of the visit, ideally it would be a neutral third party.

You have to try and take the emotion out of this when you think about it. It's about what your children deserve to get financially from him. They also deserve a mother who's not exhausted from running herself ragged to make things meet. I know your sister is willing to help now but your children are babies, you have at least another 18 years and things are only going to get  more expensive.

On that note when negotiating child support remember to factor in their college years.

Amethyst and stillafool, I hadn't planned on a lawyer. They are so expensive. I was going to go through the child support enforcement agency in my area. They just take a percentage of his check. 

On 8/2/2020 at 2:54 PM, BaileyB said:

Wildflower, words seem inadequate in offering comfort at this moment. You have been hurt so deeply and for so long that it’s not surprising that you feel the way you do. Like pepperbird, this may be your truth now but I hope it isn’t always your truth. 

I’m sending you strength tomorrow and you make your call. I hope you are able to find someone who can support you long term and has experience dealing with trauma. Just sending hugs. 

 

Thank you Bailey. I'm on a one month waiting list for the therapist that is free and close by. I'm researching other suitable ones to make some calls. 

 

Today and yesterday, I've just been seeking answers. Reading the last recent messages and how he flipped from one person to another in a week. Saying he understood me and wanted to keep me safe to saying everything was a lie and he was afraid. It makes no sense to me. I just want answers from him. 

[BaileyB]

Sometimes there are no answers.

Sometimes, the fact that there is no answer, is your answer...

I’m glad that you are seeking out support. Take care of yourself.

[Crazelnut]

You'll never get answers from him. And even if he did deign to answer, could you really trust anything he tells you?

WRT the child support, don't you have to have a court order directing him to pay? In other words, there has to be something legal for the enforcement agency to enforce. 

[Wildflower201]

What you guys said is probably true. 😔

From what I understand, child support enforcement has their own lawyers and those lawyers would do everything to handle the case. They wouldn't be MY lawyer, per se. The only thing they want from me is information. 

[stillafool]

You are correct Wildflower CS enforcement do have their own lawyers who will handle your case.  All you have to do is call them and they will do the investigation to find out how much he makes and let you know what you'll get per child.

[Amethyst68]

That's good news with the CS. I'm concerned about the abuse though. Perhaps you could reach out to your local women's aid or domestic violence support to find out what legal aid is available to you. I really think you should look seriously into restraining orders for him and his family. If I remember your other thread correctly, weren't you physically assaulted by his mother in a car park. You need to be proactive in protecting yourself.

I don't want to upset you or scare you but do you think MM and/or his family would assault you to make you miscarriage?