Working from home: I don't miss a single thing about going to the office

[Ruby Slippers]

You don't need a whole house generator to run a little home desk setup. My laptop and phone hold a charge all day long, and can easily be recharged in the car. Even with just that, I could do all my work.

[sothereiwas]

28 minutes ago, nospam99 said:

Just wondering if all the 'work from home' crowd was around in the Great Western Job Extinction (my term - it was never labeled as such in the media) of the 90s.

I was, it was never an issue really though, the work seemed to be abundant. 

 

28 minutes ago, nospam99 said:

My thought is that any 'remote workforce' paradigm shift will just result in even more jobs leaving the West.

Some tech has to be done in the borders of the USA by citizens. Them's the rules as they say. 

In general the work is expanding fast again, it seems. Places that would outsource to lower wage locales probably get what they pay for, for the most part. The other option, not so bad, is to move to the low cost locale yourself. Works until the local workforce savvies up and the pay scale rises. 

[sothereiwas]

14 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

You don't need a whole house generator to run a little home desk setup. My laptop and phone hold a charge all day long, and can easily be recharged in the car. Even with just that, I could do all my work.

I have around 800 watts of load here to keep the lab up. Fortunately we don't have many power issues that last more than about 1 second here. 

[Ruby Slippers]

5 minutes ago, sothereiwas said:

I have around 800 watts of load here to keep the lab up. Fortunately we don't have many power issues that last more than about 1 second here. 

Same here. It's not fair, but professionals tend to live in better areas that get better service. Service outages anywhere I've lived in recent memory have been extremely rare. I can't recall any that stopped me from doing anything I needed to do.

[mark clemson]

1 hour ago, Ruby Slippers said:

My feeling is that the economy is dynamic enough to roll with the changes. Just in the U.S., there's so much wealth, and people are willing to spend a lot money on things and services they want. New businesses are emerging to meet new needs and desires. 

If I had to right now, I'd figure out where the needs are and start an awesome new business, and I'm sure I'm not alone - a business that not only serves the customers well, but provides excellent jobs to people who need them, treats them well so they're empowered to do great work. So many companies undervalue their workers that this wouldn't be that hard to do.

You're right about the economy being dynamic. But some things to consider:

- Most of that wealth is in the top 10%. Much of the rest of the US workforce lives paycheck to paycheck or worse. You're one of the lucky ones. Good for you, but just consider that many are not in that boat at all.

- The idea of starting a business is certainly a positive one (although perhaps you won't ever need to). However, most good business ideas face significant competition. Labor costs are high, so to compete on price for customers, not only do they have to make their systems as efficient and low-cost as possible, they also need to pay labor as low "as the market will bear". Otherwise the customer will buy the same product/service for less than someone else. Hence the rise of the "McJob" and the fact that most non-management service economy jobs were terrible before COVID. It's why you heard so many folks complaining that they had to work 2-3 jobs and could never be with their families, had no health insurance, etc.

- If you think office jobs were soul-sucking, imagine being a smart fully adult person working, e.g. at a fast food counter, retail cash register, or driving a truck. Truly a nightmare for many of them.

There ARE positive elements, but generally outsourcing and the service economy have been disasters for many Americans. Probably the majority of them. It's probably one of the most serious issue facing our country and is likely to remain so for many years.

[Ruby Slippers]

20 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

However, most good business ideas face significant competition. 

In my experience, the competition is often very weak. I ran my own startup business for 5 years. At least 100 prospects who called me over those 5 years told me they had called 6 or 7 other businesses offering a similar service and I was the only one who ever answered the phone or called them back. I bought my first house last year, and since then have called a number of different service providers for quotes of various kinds, had the same experience. I usually have to call at least 10 companies before anybody even answers. And then there are dozens of other easy ways to differentiate yourself just by doing the absolute basics. My business got consistent rave reviews.

24 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

Labor costs are high, so to compete on price for customers, not only do they have to make their systems as efficient and low-cost as possible, they also need to pay labor as low "as the market will bear". Otherwise the customer will buy the same product/service for less than someone else. Hence the rise of the "McJob" and the fact that most non-management service economy jobs were terrible before COVID. It's why you heard so many folks complaining that they had to work 2-3 jobs and could never be with their families, had no health insurance, etc.

Also not my experience. After doing in-depth competitive research, I found out that I was paying my people more than any other competitor, even the big corporate outfits, because I believe in sharing what we've all worked hard to produce. My prices were among the highest in my industry, and we still had a waiting list because we were the best. Good customers are willing to pay a premium for quality because it's so hard to find. Also, anyone who ever worked with me said they'd work with me again anytime, and some of them have gone above and beyond when I asked, as contractors I've hired in my full-time positions since.

Check out Gravity Payments, a company in Seattle whose owner pays every employee at least $70,000 a year, and took a huge pay cut to make it happen. After he did that, business went through the roof. He has people lined up to come work for him. He didn't lay off anyone during the pandemic. They all democratically decided to take temporary pay cuts. Now that business is back up, not only has he restored their former salaries, but he's paid them back pay for the lost wages during the time of pay cuts. This man will never have a problem finding awesome people to work with.

The reason so many people are barely getting by, even if they're working multiple jobs, is that so many owners are greedy and exploiting their workers for their own extravagant gain, so they can buy one more sports car, vacation home, or whatever other BS they don't really need. Uber and other gig economy companies are the perfect example. They screw the hell out of the people who do the real work on the front lines, and the few at the top skim off all the profits of that hard work. You can bet your butt that as soon as better alternatives emerge, they'll leave those greedy employers high and dry. 

[mark clemson]

33 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

The reason so many people are barely getting by, even if they're working multiple jobs, is that so many owners are greedy and exploiting their workers for their own extravagant gain, so they can buy one more sports car, vacation home, or whatever other BS they don't really need. Uber and other gig economy companies are the perfect example.

I'm glad you were able to do what you described. I'm not sure that works in all industries, but am glad it worked for you. I think you're right about some owners, probably not others. Some are probably just in highly competitive industries where that can't be done.

I agree that Uber and gig companies seem to essentially provide the LCD of payment generally, although there are probably exceptions.

Keep in mind that, once a company goes public, Wall Street gets involved and it's essentially the owner's legal (fiduciary) duty to make as much money for the company as possible (although they can sometimes provide acceptable rationales for treating employees decently, esp for non-service industries where they need more than just "a warm body"). So, unless it is set up like e.g. Google where the majority of public shares have fewer votes, the whole WS/quarterly results thing is another major factor driving worker disenfranchisement. This aspect of the system drives short term thinking/"results" and is another element that is (IMO) substantially flawed from a public good/treating employees right perspective.

[Eternal Sunshine]

I don't really believe that WFH automatically means outsourcing. My current company had WFH model for a decade, unrelated to COVID. They have played around with outsourcing to Asia in the past but they have seen their revenue drop despite a cheaper workforce. This is because our clients like someone who can speak decent English and answers their calls during the working hours because they are in their timezone. I have dealt directly with outsourced workers, and generally they can cope with generic, easy to explain requests. Anything more niche, and they have no idea what to do, and I struggle to communicate this to them due to a language barrier. So I have to spend many hours fixing their work so that it's of acceptable quality. To really understand intricate details of a client's project and deliver top quality product, you need to have ongoing, dynamic communication with the client in fluent English, with low cultural barriers. 

Clients actually ask directly if anyone off-shore is involved in their project. They automatically associate it with lower quality work and they would be right. We all cringe when we call our mobile/internet provider and have to deal with offshore call centres for similar reasons. So it's not as simple as cutting costs means more profit.

Edited August 7, 2020 by Eternal Sunshine

[thefooloftheyear]

1 hour ago, Eternal Sunshine said:

I don't really believe that WFH automatically means outsourcing. My current company had WFH model for a decade, unrelated to COVID. They have played around with outsourcing to Asia in the past but they have seen their revenue drop despite a cheaper workforce. This is because our clients like someone who can speak decent English and answers their calls during the working hours because they are in their timezone. I have dealt directly with outsourced workers, and generally they can cope with generic, easy to explain requests. Anything more niche, and they have no idea what to do, and I struggle to communicate this to them due to a language barrier. So I have to spend many hours fixing their work so that it's of acceptable quality. To really understand intricate details of a client's project and deliver top quality product, you need to have ongoing, dynamic communication with the client in fluent English, with low cultural barriers. 

Clients actually ask directly if anyone off-shore is involved in their project. They automatically associate it with lower quality work and they would be right. We all cringe when we call our mobile/internet provider and have to deal with offshore call centres for similar reasons. So it's not as simple as cutting costs means more profit.

I agree, but I would think that problem can be easily resolved with technology...I find the same frustrations dealing with out of the country reps, but I dont think it's due to incompetence...They are quite cordial and seem to be trying very hard to do the job...Once they figure out how to translate on the fly, that problem would likely go away...

About all I can say at this point as a business owner that has to involve many aspects to finish projects, its never been harder than right now...The constant back and forth of emails (when a simple phone call can get it done in minutes) has increased the lead times and increased my costs, which will be(and has been) passed along to the customer, unfortunately....

It's gonna be hard to judge where this is going until covid is no longer the main focus(or excuse in many cases)...Once the impending economic collapse happens, then what remains after is what may be the new reality....Frankly I don't know what that looks like, but I am glad I am at the end of this game and I'm not 30 years old trying to figure out what to do with the next 30+ years of work life..

TFY

[Ruby Slippers]

52 minutes ago, thefooloftheyear said:

The constant back and forth of emails (when a simple phone call can get it done in minutes) has increased the lead times and increased my costs, which will be(and has been) passed along to the customer, unfortunately....

I don't get this. Most everyone from my office who's working from home provides their cell # in their email signature and is very responsive. I answer work calls at any hour of the day. I think any competent business person does this. 

[thefooloftheyear]

26 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I don't get this. Most everyone from my office who's working from home provides their cell # in their email signature and is very responsive. I answer work calls at any hour of the day. I think any competent business person does this. 

Yep....and you wind up with voicemail...🙄.>Maybe they are at Home Depot or taking a nap...Or the other time I had a difficult issue with the insurance company, only to have to listen to the agent washing the dishes and hearing the dog bark at the mailman....So much fun, right??

It's just not as convenient or as efficient as it was before...If you ask your clients or customers they may agree...

TFY

[sothereiwas]

39 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

Most everyone from my office who's working from home provides their cell # in their email signature and is very responsive.

Maybe it's just the industry, but if we're working, we're in front of a workstation. When you're chained to the machine and Teams, WebEX, Slack, Outlook, etc are all primed and aimed at you, the only way I'm not going to see a ping for something immediately is if I'm getting some coffee or dropping some off. Not all work is as natural for WFH but for this, it is. But then I was WFH way before the plague. 

[Ruby Slippers]

20 minutes ago, thefooloftheyear said:

It's just not as convenient or as efficient as it was before...If you ask your clients or customers they may agree...

I'm realizing I work for an exceptional organization. We're very involved with the public, getting lots of accolades for our response during the pandemic. The board just approved a great bonus pay package for the front line workers, which they more than deserve.

[Ruby Slippers]

Internet outage in my area, predicted to be resolved within a few hours, but I connected to my cell phone as a mobile hotspot and it's working. Slower, but fine for my work needs. I'll totally try to get a credit on my bill for the outage.

Edited August 11, 2020 by Ruby Slippers