How do I approach my complex 'relationship' with a trauma survivor?

[bernie9000]

Sorry in advance for the long story. It’s complex to say the least. I (30M) am in a head scratcher of a situation with a girl (27F) I care deeply about. For some context:

• We met on Tinder when I was finishing school in her city over two years ago. Despite texting up a storm and some clear chemistry, none of our plans to meet materialized. She flaked three times over the span of three months, and I took it as a sign she wasn’t interested.
• I had plans to move abroad to work/volunteer soon after those three months, and I left without us meeting. She continued to talk to me regularly, however, even after finding out I was moving. Before leaving the country, I wrote and mailed her a letter expressing my desire to still meet one day if things ever worked out, however unlikely.
• While abroad for 1.5 years we ended up messaging/snapchatting nearly every single day. Over that time she opened up to me about her past trauma. We grew as close as you can without actually being in a relationship, and eventually both agreed to try taking the next step (which involved me moving back to her city).
• Since being back in the same city, we’ve met once in two months despite living minutes away from each other. Our date was a simple picnic and chat in the park. It was extremely difficult to make happen (after much flakiness again), but was more understandable this time considering her fear and hesitation. All that said, it turned out well and we had a genuine connection.
• By this point I’m already deep in the feels with this girl and want to do my best to support her through recovery. I’ve been educating myself all about abuse and trauma and have tried my best to not do anything to make her feel unsafe or uncomfortable. I’m talkin’ offering to be there just as a friend, being committed to celibacy, no physical touch, and being calm and understanding as much as possible.
• From her side, I know she wishes she didn’t have to deal with the effects of her trauma so that she could have regular relationships. What I don’t know is if that healing will happen with me, or if it will ever happen. She has many layers of defence that I thought we had at least gotten through partially over two years, but since making the move I've discovered that we’re more or less stuck in the same place we were two years ago.
• She constantly goes back and forth on opening up. One minute (usually while influenced by meds and/or alcohol) she’ll be willing to try getting out of her comfort zone, and the next minute she’s refuting all of her emotions (as a way to feel safe). After everything, I still can't get her commit to doing anything together in person, which I feel is an important next step.
• I care about her a lot and am committed to seeing if something can work. I am also afraid that this could be unhealthy for me long term. She is essentially a distant pen pal or an imaginary friend whom I enjoy talking to. It depresses me to think I could be putting so much out there for something that may never be “real.” She still doesn't know what she wants exactly and I'm left to guess how she really feels about us and me.

In wanting to be as patient and chill as possible, I haven’t expressed to her my difficulties. I’m worried it’ll only push her away if she feels pressure to get out of her comfort zone. I want her to go at her own pace, but staying stagnant while barely being able to see her in person absolutely sucks.

How much should I accept vs. ask of her in this scenario? I feel selfish for trying to influence her, and I really do want to respect her agency. At the same time I don’t know if that will get us anywhere if it already hasn’t in two years. I’m at a loss on how to approach this entire thing and would really appreciate your thoughts, whatever they may be. Thank you!

[healing light]

If you want to be walking on eggshells for several more years with no guarantee that this relationship will blossom into anything, then keep doing what you're doing. Unfortunately, she doesn't sound emotionally available to date anyone--she can't even commit to seeing you again. These are crucial years where you could be finding a woman to settle down with and start a family with yet you are exhausting your energy while completely ignoring your own needs. This is not a recipe for a healthy foundation with anyone, and I say this as someone who has been through a lot of abuse and trauma in my life. 

It is her responsibility to take ownership over mending the wounds in her life that cause her to push other people away. The situation as you've described it sounds very one-sided. Yes, you can reassure her, you can show her through your actions that you are a good, trustworthy person, but you can't be expected to completely sideline any and all of your needs for fear of rocking the boat if she is inconsistent and defensive with no commitment in the picture. Trauma complicates things but it's not an excuse to treat other people less than they deserve. It sounds like there are unhealthy coping mechanisms (like alcohol) that should also have you rethinking this arrangement.

Is this woman in therapy? What is she willing to bring to a potential relationship?

[Realitysux]

Maybe you should ask the person directly and not random people loveshack. I'm sure she would be open and honest with you directly! I'm sure she realizes she made a big mistake. 

[bernie9000]

1 hour ago, healing light said:

Is this woman in therapy? What is she willing to bring to a potential relationship?

Thank you for your perspective. She has done extensive therapy which has helped a lot with coming to terms with her trauma. When it comes to examining her ability to have relationships, I don't think it's been a focus. One of the things that has confused me the most is not knowing what she's willing to bring to a potential relationship. When faced with the question, she's unsure and then lets it become forgotten. The tricky thing with the trauma is that she knows what she should be doing, but her reactive body/mind is holding her back from acting how she would like to. And I don't know what her true feelings are within that inner struggle.

 

32 minutes ago, Realitysux said:

Maybe you should ask the person directly and not random people loveshack. I'm sure she would be open and honest with you directly! I'm sure she realizes she made a big mistake. 

If only it were that simple! The complex-PTSD is what has made this such a difficult thing to get a grasp of. I have been pretty honest and direct with her, but like I mentioned, her frame of mind alternates depending on the day. She realizes the unfairness of the situation already without me having to bring it up. Now the hard part is knowing if anything will change on her end and how much I should be investing myself into this.

 

 

[ShyViolet]

So you've been bending over backwards trying to cultivate a relationship with this woman for the past two years, who is carrying all this emotional baggage and unwilling or unable to give you much in return for all the effort you've put in.  If it hasn't gotten off the ground by now, I highly doubt that it ever will.  This is no way to start a relationship.  Do you really want to be struggling with this woman's "issues" forever?  You are not her therapist and you can't fix her.  If she really wanted to be with you, she would have at least met up with you in person more often by now.  It sounds like she is keeping you at arm's length as some kind of self-protection thing, where she doesn't feel comfortable letting anyone truly get close to her.

Why don't you think that you deserve better than this?  Do you think you can't find a woman who could actually BE with you in a proper relationship, and give you more than this?

 

[basil67]

Ah @bernie9000 you're too nice.  And by that, I mean you're giving too much and going without too much and it doesn't sound like you're getting anything much in return.   

Honestly, I think you're well and truly in the friend zone.  A dear friend, but still a friend.   And I agree with Violet, if she was really interested in a gentle romance, you'd at least be getting handholds and hugs and soft kisses by now....and more importantly, she'd be making time to see you instead of being flaky.

 

[elaine567]

6 hours ago, basil67 said:

if she was really interested in a gentle romance, you'd at least be getting handholds and hugs and soft kisses by now....and more importantly, she'd be making time to see you instead of being flaky.

I am afraid so.
The "trauma" is an excuse for disinterest in you romantically,  or she is so severely affected that a real relationship is impossible.
The problem with rescuing damsels in distress is that once safe and healed, they usually move on to pastures new... 
You could literally waste another few years here to no avail.
Cut and run is my advice, relationships are hard enough when two people are emotionally healthy and completely invested in one another.

[Lotus_Luna]

As someone who is has trauma from

abuse, let her go.

I have been on therapy, I have healed a ton and I am open and honest. The trauma doesn’t control my life. Its just something that comes up ever so often. 
 

She is in the throes of victimhood and isn’t emotional capable of giving. All your attachment in the world won’t change thay. 

[dangerous]

Wow, OP you've devoted so much time and commitment upfront in a thankless relationship. Do you, yourself,  have a past that devalues your worth, do you have issues that need addressing perhaps? Sorry, just putting it out there. 

[salparadise]

On 7/8/2020 at 8:48 PM, bernie9000 said:

I’m talkin’ offering to be there just as a friend, being committed to celibacy, no physical touch, and being calm and understanding as much as possible.

I care about her a lot and am committed to seeing if something can work.

OP, you are the most dedicated codependent I've ever heard of! What are you getting out of this, and why would you be committed, or even mildly interested, if she isn't capable of giving you anything more than frustration and disappointment? Did you seriously move back because of her? 

@dagerous asks highly relevant questions. Do you not believe you're valuable and worthy of being loved and cared for? What you're doing is dedicating your entire self, in return for nothing. And nothing is exactly what you're going to end up with. She is not capable of giving or being anything for you, or meeting any of your needs. You're sacrificing your whole existence for a bit of snapchat. 

Let's try an analogy... say you have $10k saved and you're lonely. So you decide to take it all in cash and go out on 5th Ave in NYC and give it to the first woman who makes eye contact. She says, wow, cool, as she's walking away. And you follow after her and say, but, but, but... aren't you going to be eternally grateful and love me like my mother should have? And she says, well, no because I'm consumed with my own stuff and you're just some guy who gave me $10k for no reason. I mean that was nice of you, but I don't owe you anything, so please quit following me. 

You're assuming there is a payoff. You're going to be disappointed.

You need to read everything you can find about codependence (Melanie Beattie, Codependent No More), and get a really good therapist. 

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by salparadise

[amaysngrace]

Codependent or unconditional love?  There’s a huge difference and it stems from intent.  Loving her as a friend may be just what she needs to feel safe enough to seek the therapy she needs.  

Its rude to call it codependency and try to make someone feel inadequate when what they’re displaying is strength.  

[Realitysux]

25 minutes ago, amaysngrace said:

Codependent or unconditional love?  There’s a huge difference and it stems from intent.  Loving her as a friend may be just what she needs to feel safe enough to seek the therapy she needs.  

Its rude to call it codependency and try to make someone feel inadequate when what they’re displaying is strength.  

As a friend? What? Why? 

 

She's not codependant, he's using her past as reasons to keep a distant length away and she wants him to come closer. She wants to talk to him directly

Edited July 13, 2020 by Realitysux

[salparadise]

Unconditional love only exists in a parent for their child, and even then some expectations must be met if it's to be functional. 

[amaysngrace]

1 hour ago, salparadise said:

Unconditional love only exists in a parent for their child

That’s not the way my heart works.  I have unconditional love for quite a few people in my life and I accept them as they are, warts and all.