Online friends since 2016, I want to finally meet her, how do I go from here?

[TheEternalPessimist]

2 minutes ago, JTSW said:

Yeah I read it all but she turned your meeting requests down.

She was well within her right to do so back than, I clearly explained why she did and why the circumstances have changed now. 

[JTSW]

3 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

I won't take no for an answer because it's lazy and she never clearly said no herself to begin with. I think deciding or not to stay in touch with someone is always a decision you take together

No. People have their own mind do to do what they want.

She doesn't need your agreement to not stay in touch.

[TheEternalPessimist]

Just now, JTSW said:

No. People have their own mind do to do what they want.

She doesn't need your agreement to not stay in touch.

She doesn't you're right and that's not the point. It would not be fair to her for me to just disappear one day without offering any explanations after we've been friends for so long and without even attempting to find a solution first. 

[Mystery4u]

Why are you so obsessed with her?

So you met online, started a friendship, communicated for a few years, and now she wants to live her real life, that doesn't include some random guy she met online when she was a teenager, so what? She's not the only person in the world you can be friends with!

And everything you post is about you, you and what you want. How you feel, what you want to happen between you, how you think things should develop. Every stopped to think about what she wants? She does not want to meet you! She does not want to be friends with you anymore like before! She has her own girlfriend who is also her best friend, why would she waste any of her time on you? You were pen pals for a few years and now she has outgrown that.

Outgrown you actually. You need to wake up and start living life and stop obsessing about someone that doesn't feel the same about you.

[TheEternalPessimist]

18 minutes ago, Mystery4u said:

Why are you so obsessed with her?

So you met online, started a friendship, communicated for a few years, and now she wants to live her real life, that doesn't include some random guy she met online when she was a teenager, so what? She's not the only person in the world you can be friends with!

And everything you post is about you, you and what you want. How you feel, what you want to happen between you, how you think things should develop. Every stopped to think about what she wants? She does not want to meet you! She does not want to be friends with you anymore like before! She has her own girlfriend who is also her best friend, why would she waste any of her time on you? You were pen pals for a few years and now she has outgrown that.

Outgrown you actually. You need to wake up and start living life and stop obsessing about someone that doesn't feel the same about you.

I don't think anything I wrote would indicate an obsession and I never prevented her from living her "real life". An obsession is when you stalk someone, when you spam someone with text messages or calls, when you try to blackmail them, when you show up at their home. I never did any of that and never planned on doing any of that. I have other friends beside her but they don't live in Germany and me and her have developed a special bond over the years so now that we live in the same country it's only normal that I would like to meet and hang out because that's what friends do. Some people here are trying to make it seem as if it's abnormal that I would want to hang out and meet someone I've been texting with for so long. 

That she maybe doesn't want to meet me is fair enough but what makes you think she doesn't want to be friends with me anymore "like before"? (whatever that means because there aren't 10,000 ways to be friends with someone online). The "like before" means nothing in this case, our friendship has barely changed over the past few years, the only thing is we text less often because of her busier schedule. I would gladly think about what exactly she wants if only she told me and I knew what she wanted but I don't. 

We weren't pen pals, a pen pal is not someone you text with on an app 2-3 times a week for several years and tell everything to. 

If I'm such a terrible, obsessive and creepy person like some tried to argue and she was wasting her time with me, why is she still keeping in touch with me 4 years later? I never forced her to stay in touch, she could decide tomorrow to cut all contact with me. It would be extremely easy and I could do nothing about it yet she's still there. 

Edited July 9, 2020 by TheEternalPessimist

[Foxhall]

I think its mean enough on her part that she will not agree to a real life meeting,

you have put a lot of time and mental energy into this girl- you deserve at least a cup of coffee in real life,

life is not always fair though- people are not always kind and decent to others and do not always do the "fairest" thing,

she is frightened it would appear of letting you into her life and is trying to keep you at a distance and let you fizzle out,

if you want to eventually get a meet up with her, the way to play it is back off and then randomly pop up with a few messages at birthday times or special occasions days,

letting her know you care for her in a friendship way,

Personally I would not bother though, I would stop wasting my energy and instead direct it towards getting to know many more girls who will be interested in actually meeting you,

 

 

[TheEternalPessimist]

6 minutes ago, Foxhall said:

I think its mean enough on her part that she will not agree to a real life meeting,

you have put a lot of time and mental energy into this girl- you deserve at least a cup of coffee in real life,

life is not always fair though- people are not always kind and decent to others and do not always do the "fairest" thing,

she is frightened it would appear of letting you into her life and is trying to keep you at a distance and let you fizzle out,

if you want to eventually get a meet up with her, the way to play it is back off and then randomly pop up with a few messages at birthday times or special occasions days,

letting her know you care for her in a friendship way,

Personally I would not bother though, I would stop wasting my energy and instead direct it towards getting to know many more girls who will be interested in actually meeting you,

 

 

THANK YOU, that's what I was trying to get at from the beginning, finally someone who gets it. All I would like is exactly just that, go grab a cup of coffee and chat, see what kind of person she is in real life yet I'm meant to feel like I'm asking the impossible. I'm confused as to why she's keeping me around if she's so frightened of me and if I'm such a creepy, obsessive person as some seem to think I am. She could cut ties with me whenever she wants, it would be quick and simple, the easiest thing in the world. She never at any time indicated that she wanted me out of her life for good or hinted that we should go our seperate ways. Believe me, I know when to back off and I especially know when people are asking me to back off based on previous experiences in past friendships but also based on how I react when someone is pestering me. 

That's a decent idea, I thought about that as well, it's the closest thing to a "solution" I could come up with. The thing though is I completely fail to see how randomly popping up at birthdays or for special occasions will do anything to convince her to finally meet me. If you could explain it to me though, I'd love to hear your theory. I thought about backing off seriously for a long period of time and seeing how she reacts. Given that fact that we are already texting a lot less than before and that she now has a girlfriend, I don't think she will truly notice the difference when and if I stop contacting her. I think maybe a year ago this tactic could have worked out, now I'm not so sure. 

[Ellener]

I've had correspondents for decades sometimes who we never met in real life one reason or another. 

Your friend maybe just doesn't see the need to meet in real life as you do.

I wrote a lovely poem for a guy in Vancouver who got married and told me straight up that our online relationship was taking energy from his marriage. 

Some of us are just more intense, I still have to keep my intensity in check all the time. 

Many people will have come in and out of our lives by the time you get to my age, To everything a season.

 

 

[Emilie Jolie]

7 hours ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

She was well within her right to do so back than, I clearly explained why she did and why the circumstances have changed now. 

She still is within her rights to do so now.

It might not make much sense to you that she's invested all this time developing a friendship with someone she was never going to meet 'in real life', and I kind of get your confusion.

That said, people have all sorts of friendships that meet different kinds of need and by the sounds of it, you are her online Canadian slightly older non-judgemental male friend. The fact you are now so close geographically changes the parameters of that friendship for her; it's not 'the same' anymore. 

It very much sounds like insisting more on meeting her is breaking her comfort zone.

Your only options are to keep the online friendship going or to end the friendship.

Sorry, EternalPessismist.

[TheEternalPessimist]

Thank you for your comment and of course she is well within her rights to refuse to see me even now.

This is going to sound extreme but it baffles me that you can stay in touch with someone for so long and have no desire or show no desire to meet especially after that person moves to your home country and is actively learning your language. To me meeting someone in real life that you met online initially is just the next logical step, just texting online for ages and not going anywhere with it doesn't cut it for me. Feels like I did irreparable damage with those two proposals a while back.

 

[Emilie Jolie]

For some people, moving from online to offline is a really big thing - could be something there on a subconscious level - it's easier to be vulnerable at a distance, when you are a private or a guarded person. Maybe she opened up to you in a way that she wouldn't have been comfortable doing in real life and feels self-conscious about it? I watched a couple of episodes of TV show 'Catfish' in which people were who they said they were, but it seemed they were super introverted, or they saw 'online' as a parallel universe, if that makes sense?

Essentially, people are different. You seem to view this relationship / friendship differently to her; that's just the way it is. You need to respect her boundaries and accept the situation as it is.

You haven't moved to her home country for her, have you?  

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by Emilie Jolie

[TheEternalPessimist]

That's fine I can understand that to some extent, it just makes me wonder what these 4 years were for then. And she did meet a guy from the LGBT app in real life once so it's not like she never ever made the transition from online to offline before. 

No of course I didn't move to her home country because of her, if you go back and read my first post I explained that clearly:  "I moved there because it was the easiest place in the EU to work and live in as a non-EU person."

Here living there is just a potential bonus which we in all likelihood won't even take advantage of at any point..

[Emilie Jolie]

Ok well that is a pretty incredible coincidence, if you think about it. What were the odds that you'd somehow end up living in the same country when you were worlds  apart when you first connected?

I can see how it would make her feel like it is too much, from her perspective.

In any event, it's out of your hands. She has her way of doing things, you have your way of doing things and they don't mesh. That's all there is to it.

Best focus on settling into your new life and make new real life friends!

[Foxhall]

11 hours ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

If you could explain it to me though, I'd love to hear your theory

I think the best I can say is,

Find new friends and especially a girlfriend- I think your online friend may become warmer to you once you have a girlfriend- in the sense she sees you are moving on building your life and you are not as dependent on her. You become less of a "threat" in her mind, 

As you are making efforts to new people, I would cool off with this online girl, wait for her to text you and when she does do not be in any particular hurry to reply, maybe the next day or something.

Maybe in three months or so, you could again say Hi and casually mention some of the fun things you have been doing in the past few months. Ask her how she is getting on, just show an interest without being too inquisitive. 

You could perhaps suggest her helping you with your German, you helping her with her english - moving to skype calls- and building up a bit more rapport.(after a few months-not now)

Your aim is to make her comfortable with you, that she thinks of you as a brotherly figure, I suspect at the moment she thinks of you more in terms of a guy who wants to pop a few babies into her and that is making her a little uncomfortable.

you need her to reach out to you, if she is having any relationship/friendship issues, that she sees you as someone to confide in, 

and if you get to that stage it is possible you will develop a proper friendship and more if that is what you are really looking for!

still channeling your energy into meeting new people - that has to be your current plan,(once you meet new women you might not even want to go back to this girl)

good luck.

 

 

 

 

[TheEternalPessimist]

I highly doubt she sees me as a "threat" or as someone dependent on her, I don't ever feel desperate when we text and she knows I have a life outside of our conversations, that I talk to other girls too, that I badly want a girlfriend. With that being said, I have a lot of personal problems in my life right now so I don't think I'm ready to have a girlfriend. I also don't really talk about those problems with her because it would just make things worse overall.

I highly doubt she sees me as someone who wants to "pop a few babies into her" either, it's just not who she is and whenever I'm interested in a girl she's usually among the first people I tell. At this point, if she truly thought that I'm positive she would have stopped talking to me altogether especially now that she has a stable relationship. Essentially I need to find a way to make her miss me properly and it's far from certain I can do that but the tactic of drifting away is certainly an interesting approach provided she ever starts missing me properly at any point which in an online friendship is a lot to ask for and to expect. Also I feel like in an online friendship, there's only so many ways you can truly miss someone. When you stop talking as often, it's so much easier to move on completely than in real life when you know you will either bump into that person somewhere or hear about her from someone you both know. Still, I find this to be an interesting idea and will definitely consider it. 

[Acacia98]

On 7/10/2020 at 2:03 AM, Foxhall said:

Personally I would not bother though, I would stop wasting my energy and instead direct it towards getting to know many more girls who will be interested in actually meeting you,

It seriously sounds like you're giving him dating advice. 🙂 Is that deliberate or inadvertent?

[Acacia98]

On 7/9/2020 at 9:30 PM, TheEternalPessimist said:

I don't think we can judge based on what I wrote that she "clearly isn't invested in meeting at all", I don't know what's on her mind and what she really genuinely thinks about our friendship. I wish I could find out but I have no idea how I could find out since there's the language barrier and we have no friends in common. There's no hint to be taken, she never clearly said no and we never really discussed it much.

I really think we can make an educated guess based on everything you have said. Twice, you have proposed meeting, and twice she has declined. On neither occasion has she suggested an alternative. You are still living in her country and she has never subsequently suggested coming to visit you or invited you to her town. She's never even asked what your long-term plans look like so that she can anticipate/plan something in the somewhat distant future. In addition, we know she is actually capable of meeting online friends because you've told us she's met this one guy before. Add to that the fact that the frequency of her communication with you has dropped, and its clear that she's not moving heaven and earth to meet you. In fact, she seems to be gradually pulling away.

I don't think you're going to heed the general advice to just let the matter be. So you might as well go ahead and try to talk to her about it if you need a resolution of some sort in order to move on. Just be prepared for the possibility that she'll give you some kind of vague, non-committal response that gives you hope for a future meeting but continues to pull away gradually.

[elaine567]

Most friendships in your twenties fizzle out as priorities change, people grow up and what seemed important is replaced by new experiences and new people.
She has been fading on you for a while, and despite you now living in her country she has shown no interest whatsoever in meeting you.
You met when she was 15, now she is an adult, what you now have in common is probably lessening by the day.
Meeting would be awkward all round.
Take the hint is my advice.
 

[TheEternalPessimist]

 

5 minutes ago, Acacia98 said:

I really think we can make an educated guess based on everything you have said. Twice, you have proposed meeting, and twice she has declined. On neither occasion has she suggested an alternative. You are still living in her country and she has never subsequently suggested coming to visit you or invited you to her town. She's never even asked what your long-term plans look like so that she can anticipate/plan something in the somewhat distant future. In addition, we know she is actually capable of meeting online friends because you've told us she's met this one guy before. Add to that the fact that the frequency of her communication with you has dropped, and its clear that she's not moving heaven and earth to meet you. In fact, she seems to be gradually pulling away.

I don't think you're going to heed the general advice to just let the matter be. So you might as well go ahead and try to talk to her about it if you need a resolution of some sort in order to move on. Just be prepared for the possibility that she'll give you some kind of vague, non-committal response that gives you hope for a future meeting but continues to pull away gradually.

You've summed it up quite well, arguably better than anyone else in this thread so far. I do want to clarify one thing once again though. Both times I suggested a meeting she was still a minor and both times there were no real realistic immediate alternatives to suggest to begin with (the first time because I was coming to Germany on a rush for a few days then going straight back to Canada, the second time because I was again coming to Germany on a rush for a few days AND then I was going back to Switzerland where I was studying in a town over 6 hours away from her). Now I don't know if she would necessarily have suggested an alternative had the circumstances been different but what I can tell you is that there were no realistic immediate alternatives both times she declined to meet, that I can tell you for sure. For the rest I agree, although she's had a huge busy year at school and I have no reason to doubt that, I do want to believe that maybe she could have done something by now in order for us to meet. She doesn't have the excuse of being a minor and having to ask her parents which if I'm a honest was a very understandable excuse before. I'm not in her head unfortunately, I have no idea what she thinks about me, how she sees the future, what her exceptions are. The language barrier and me not wanting to come off as angry and confrontatial makes it so that we don't ever have these conversations about her thoughts and feelings.

I do plan to talk to her about it at some point depending on how things go in the upcoming months especially if she goes through with her plan to leave Germany for a few years and go live in Canada or elsewhere. I'm not one to walk away from a friendship or carelessly let it die off, it's just not who I am as a person and doing that would tear me apart. With that being said, there is one key issue here: I would really love for her to naturally on her own bring up the idea of a meeting. If I "blame" her for us never meeting and if I say I have reasons to believe she doesn't ever want to meet me, she feels bad or guilty and then decides that we should meet, that will only or mostly be because I confronted her about not wanting to meet, not because SHE off her own free will wants us to meet.  This is what makes this so complicated. We will likely have that conversation at some point, very likely through an audio message on WhatsApp because in the 4 years that we've known each other, we never really spoke vocally which also doesn't help in the long run.

[TheEternalPessimist]

18 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Most friendships in your twenties fizzle out as priorities change, people grow up and what seemed important is replaced by new experiences and new people.
She has been fading on you for a while, and despite you now living in her country she has shown no interest whatsoever in meeting you.
You met when she was 15, now she is an adult, what you now have in common is probably lessening by the day.
Meeting would be awkward all round.
Take the hint is my advice.
 

She's not in her twenties and at barely 18 years old I'm sorry but you are still much more a kid or at least a teenager than you are a full grown adult. You mostly still think as a teenager, act like a teenager, make decisions as a teenager etc. etc. That's not a bad thing necessarily, I would never say she's immature but nobody is going to convince me that an 18 year old is an adult the same "mature" and experienced way a 25 year old or especially a 35-45 year old is an adult.

What we have in common hasn't changed much over the years, our conversations are just as intense and as fun as they were in 2016 or 2017, they are just less frequent overall. 

What hint? She never said explicitly that she doesn't want to meet, she had very good reasons not to meet when I proposed it twice before and the topic of meeting up hasn't been discussed in over a year now mostly because I didn't feel comfortable bringing it up and had other immediate priorities. She has shown no interest in meeting me that much is true but I don't know WHY. There still might be a good reason that can be resolved through a discussion maybe.

[Mystery4u]

OP every post you write just makes you look more and more weird and obsessed. Even your choice of username says everything about you. You said it yourself you have problems and are desperate to have a girlfriend.

You really need to start focusing on yourself so you are happy in life as you clearly are not.

And get the hint she does not want you in her life anymore! That's her choice to make, not yours! Nobody, especially her cares about how 'that's just not you' and you can never let a friendship just die. Stop being so selfish and only thinking about yourself and your own feelings. The world does NOT revolve around you.

[TheEternalPessimist]

9 minutes ago, Mystery4u said:

OP every post you write just makes you look more and more weird and obsessed. Even your choice of username says everything about you. You said it yourself you have problems and are desperate to have a girlfriend.

You really need to start focusing on yourself so you are happy in life as you clearly are not.

And get the hint she does not want you in her life anymore! That's her choice to make, not yours! Nobody, especially her cares about how 'that's just not you' and you can never let a friendship just die. Stop being so selfish and only thinking about yourself and your own feelings. The world does NOT revolve around you.

My choice of username is my own choice and doesn't concern you. I never used the term "desperate" and my problems have nothing to do with relationship or friendship, they are seperate issues not related in any way to what I have with her. They are problems I had way before I started texting with her. 

Again, if she didn't want me in her life anymore, she would have said something by now. I didn't do anything to her for her not to want me in her life anymore. Also, since it's online, there's only so many ways I can be so involved with her life to the point where it would annoy her.  She's allowed to breathe, I always give her space and she is not obligated to contact me regularly or anything like that. I would gladly listen to her own feelings if she communicated them to me, I cannot guess how she feels and I never said the world revolves around me. 

 

 

[elaine567]

58 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

She's not in her twenties and at barely 18 years old I'm sorry but you are still much more a kid or at least a teenager than you are a full grown adult. You mostly still think as a teenager, act like a teenager, make decisions as a teenager etc. etc. That's not a bad thing necessarily, I would never say she's immature but nobody is going to convince me that an 18 year old is an adult the same "mature" and experienced way a 25 year old or especially a 35-45 year old is an adult.

YOU are in your twenties and you will find that many friendships will end as people start pairing up and find more interesting or relevant friends.

1 hour ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

What hint? She never said explicitly that she doesn't want to meet

Had she spoken to you about it that would not be a hint...
A hint is an indirect indication, not a direct communication. Here she is disappearing on you and has not indicated that she wants to take this friendship forward into  a meet. You need to take that on board and take the hint.
People often get into online friendships for a reason and that reason is that by staying online it never really impacts or complicates their real life.
They are often happy to leave it that way.
You need to take stock and find out why you are placing so much importance on chatting online with this woman.
She is a lesbian or are you hoping it is just a phase and you will be there waiting when she changes her mind...
That is crazy thinking.
Time to put your energy into more fruitful pursuits.

[TheEternalPessimist]

I'm fine with friendships ending, of course interests change and people change. I'm no longer friends with people I was friends with in my early 20s and before that. The glaring difference though is that I know exactly why those friendships ended and those friendships had valid reasons to end. With that being said, I see no specific reason for this friendship to end especially after all we've been through and especially now that we live in the same country. I am willing to fight for it to work out, only if I see that she wants to work it out too. The issue isn't about her being a lesbian, I knew that as soon as we started texting and I have no issues with it. I was super happy when she found her girlfriend. 

[elaine567]

7 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

 With that being said, I see no specific reason for this friendship to end especially after all we've been through and especially now that we live in the same country. I am willing to fight for it to work out, only if I see that she wants to work it out too.

But she obviously has no enthusiasm for this to "work out".
Women tend to be polite, they can stay in all kinds of unsuitable relationships so as not to rock the boat and cause trouble
This infrequent contact  with you is as much as she wants or is comfortable with.
If she wanted to meet she would have arranged something as soon as you got to Germany, or given you obvious hints she wanted to see you.
As is she declined an opportunity to meet twice and did not reschedule and introduced "distance", you have to listen to what she is telling you.