Input needed

[Subversa]

Thankyou @HadMeOverABarrel. Yes, looking at me and especially us together as a couple no one can guess what went on in our marriage. It’s like a bomb went off and all that’s left behind is ashes. 
I don’t think I look or act angry with anyone however I have incredible resentment in me. 

According to my husband, he says that he sees a bright future for us if he can help me get over this. I mean he does try to help, I have to admit he is incredibly transparent now. 

I guess you are right but the MOW doesn’t look like a victim either. Looking from the outside you would see someone with a great house/occupation etc. I don’t want to say more for the fear of giving out too much information. Thanks again, your post has given me a lot to think about. 

[Subversa]

Anymore input is welcome, I just want to Thank everyone who has taken out precious time to help me with this. It means a lot and has given me a lot to think.

[heartwhole2]

I wish there were more reconciled/reconciling BS here because I know quite a few (have been lucky enough to find a tribe through another website) and it's always good to get the perspective of people who choose healthy things for themselves. 

As for my process, I had counseling with someone I had seen previously for the sudden loss of a loved one. She was great in that capacity but for healing from infidelity she wasn't very revelatory. I think the most profound things I did were read Book of Forgiving by Desmond Tutu and teach myself how to do tapping/EFT. I found it very healing to name the parts of the affair that made me feel awful with an eye to being vulnerable rather than angry. 

I agree with all of hadmeoverabarrel's advice about what you invite into your life. I've made it a point to seek out people who are communitarian and healthy and self-actualized. I've been focusing on racial justice work in my community that in many ways makes me sympathize with waywards. Through my self-work I am coming to see the ways I have been lacking in empathy and have caused harm to others through my choices. In our time of cancel culture and public shaming I try to remain humble and introspective and to be the first one to admit my own faults. At the same time I've learned to assert boundaries and needs in my marriage.

It's so easy for the affair to be the thing that you think about most. I'm by no means advocating rug-sweeping, but reminding myself that what I focus on is what I will see the most. I find that when I visit sites like this more, I ruminate more about the affair.

I'm 5 years out and I know this will be a trauma in my life that I will revisit as long as I live, but hopefully in dynamic and healing ways. Recently I've been having recurring dreams that my husband has lost interest in me/cast me aside and I always panic and try to cling to him, only to start talking myself through being strong and knowing I will be OK on my own. Obviously my brain is trying to deal with the phantom memory of finding myself in that position and the fear of it happening again. And that's perfectly understandable and something I need to be gentle with myself about. It's funny because after DDay my pride was so wounded that I was completely ready to walk, and while I think that's a much more useful instinct than clinging and begging, it doesn't mean it wasn't a trauma and barrier to trust. We've rebuilt a lot of trust and I don't have the urge to monitor him in the vain hope that I could prevent myself from being hurt again. But of course, now I KNOW . . . I know that it's always a possibility. It always was, but it wasn't on my radar before.

Feeling like the spark is gone . . . I don't know. "Spark" probably means different things to different people. For me, if my husband and I are still attracted to one another and compatible in our personalities and desires for life, then having the sexual chemistry wax and wane is probably just part of life. And, you know, the more you have sex, the more you want to have sex (barring any health concerns). But that requires vulnerability, and vulnerability requires trust, so it's all quite tricky after infidelity. Hysterical bonding may have given you a false sense of what you could expect long-term in that department. There's no "will we or won't we?" tension in a long-term marriage. You will, lol. 

In my situation I have a lot more sympathy for the OW than my husband. Not that I'm required to feel sorry for anyone, but she was aging out of the dating pool where she lives and had had a string of bad boyfriends. She was desperate to get married and have kids. So like, OK, I can understand her motivation. She was misguided and foolish for thinking this was a way to get what she wanted, but at least her end game made some sort of sense. My husband . . . what was his end game? He already had an awesome wife and two great kids who would be devastated if we divorced. His greatest complaints were that I didn't ask him about his day enough (I'm the introvert; he's the extrovert) and I didn't walk around town with him like I used to (I developed a chronic condition that makes me get dizzy when I'm upright which he basically acted like I could wish away). So yeah, there's no logical way for him to come out of this one winning. If he thought me not asking about his day was bad, how about when I was a puddle of grief sobbing? How about when I couldn't eat and lost weight? How about when he had to give up all his privacy and alone time to try to put things back together? Was that a good trade? No. 

And I guess this brings us back to your original question about a revenge affair. Have you looked five, ten steps ahead? Have you predicted the likely fall-out? Is a guy who would have sex with a married woman looking for revenge on her husband the kind of person you want to be intimate with? What are the chances this could really end well for you?

I'd put that energy into nurturing yourself. If you don't want to be married, you don't have to be. And you don't have to decide that today. Take the time to nurture that small, hurt part inside of you. Invite peace and compassion and joy in with the things you choose to do and think about. See where you are after you've sat with these things a little while. 

[Subversa]

@heartwhole2 first of all Thankyou so much for taking the time out to pen your thoughts for a total stranger. It says a lot about your warmth and compassion in real life. 
I will definitely check the book out. Someone has suggested ‘codependent no more’ to me and I did read that. 
I can only hope my healing looks like yours  5 years out where I accept the possibility of it and rebuild enough trust. Honestly, I was blindsided. I have been reading these forums since 3 years now, joined last year but I have battled feelings of shame(for staying and not walking away) and anger. As you can tell healing has been extremely slow for me.

We never had hysterical bonding. I was oscillating between leaving or staying. I didn’t beg him either, Infact I asked him many times to please leave if he does loves her that much. I kept it civil for kid’s sake. 
Even if doesn’t sound like it I do have compassion for the OW. Browsing these forums I realize they go through a lot of pain too. What I can’t forgive is her rude intrusion in my home. She approached him and slowly ensnared him all the while insulting me. Whereas, I never knew her, never did I harm her in anyway I feel she lost the right to feel safe in her house the day she attacked mine. I am obviously not going to tell her husband after weighing in all the advice. 
I asked about a RA because at this point I’ll take anything that would result in me feeling less angry, less resentful of my husband. He really is a good guy who ****** up destroying me in the process. He is genuinely trying now and has been for years. I just wanted a bandaid for my heart.

[DKT3]

A couple of things I find interesting in your posts, first, several times you've said you told your husband to divorce you.  This is interesting because I believe you are punishing your husband,  you know this and his refusal to divorce you is like him giving you the ok to continue to abuse him.  Secondly,  how do you think this would work? You contact this other guy, tell your husband you're going to screw the guy, go screw the guy then you can stay a new marriage? So what happens when you're still angry? But now your husband his angry, and hurt because not only had you abused him by hanging the idea of you doing this for several years now you've actually done it. How do you rebuild then? What would that look like? My guess is, it would actually be the end. Saying it's ok and actually having it be ok is two different things. 

Lastly,  if you have no spark and aren't really trying to rebuild what's the point? Why not divorce and move on? This all feels very passive aggressive to me. Your husband as the wayward spouse can only do so much, as some point (now) it's you responsibility to heal together or apart. It's time to do something. But sleeping with another man helps nothing. 

 

 

 

[Stevnx3]

There is nothing here left to heal. It is a broken and finished relationship ( which you know ). An affair? Telling her husband ( who I believe should know ). Will never heal you. Beware the double-edged sword of revenge. Look at yourself:

You have by any measure gained much in life; but are trapped in misery. Your mind gives you no rest; swallowed by hate. I can feel the anger in your posts - I get that anger.

Why, the only remedy here is true divorce. Why give him the option? Why stay and be miserable like this? 

Of course he will stay and try to fix this unfixable so-relationship. 

I won't tell you what to do as far as an affair. But it won't heal anything. Fire only consumes; you have felt that branding force; why would an inverse help you? But do as you wish. 

Now. Wouldn't it be better to be divorced, free, finding someone more loyal, who would love you? Not holding onto this...misery! 

[Subversa]

Thankyou @DKT3 and @Stevnx3. Both of your posts felt like a bucket of cold water on my face and it really hurt to read those. A lot. I appreciate your honest opinion, I think I needed someone else to say it. 

What has kept me in this relationship uptil now is the hope that I will feel better soon. Tomorrow will be day. Next month I will be in a better place. Next year is going to be better. Also my H’s hope, penance, effort in the relationship. 

I feel I just need to clarify one thing, I haven’t continuously been asking him for divorce. That subject was raised when I found out about the affair. I was merely giving him an out then. We haven’t talked about it again for years. 

Edited July 13, 2020 by Subversa

[Subversa]

Since I am laying it all out I want your input on a few things please. I had figured out with my therapist a few things that keep me stuck in a loop and are the root cause of my anger. He had an emotional affair. But,

1. He didn’t/doesn’t admit to it being a physical affair. I have ambiguous written proof that makes me think it was. He did take international flights during that time period and somehow the itinerary given to me never matched with his arrival time. I am 90% sure it was. 

2. I found all proof of the affair myself, he never admitted to anything. When I put proof in front of his, he grudgingly admitted to it. When I asked him that why don’t I get honesty from you, he said he wants to salvage what was left of our relationship. 
 

3. I asked him if he really loved her, which he did, he said that it was all a fantasy. An escape from life. And that he never wanted a life with her. That she pursued him(true to an extent). That she was a manipulative person who knew how to say the right things. He said if He wanted to be with MOW, He would have. He says he hates her now. He said he wanted to break it off with her many times but got sucked in. That it was like an addiction.

He was extremely expressive with her, there were ‘I love you’s’ All the time. Discussions of day to day things etc. 
 

I just have difficulty believing these things, I feel I’m not getting enough honesty(which is the only thing I demanded) and that is where my anger comes from. 
 

 

[Stevnx3]

50 minutes ago, Subversa said:

What has kept me in this relationship uptil now is the hope that I will feel better soon. Tomorrow will be day. Next month I will be in a better place. Next year is going to be better. Also my H’s hope, penance, effort in the relationship. 

None of this has come to pass. Can you truly say that you are in a better place, now? Today, tomorrow, year or years? How many today's will be tomorrow's, which will be years? 

Like what I told another OP, in another thread: Beware hope. Hope can lead you down a dark path of clinging to a truly hopeless situation. Hope is great, as long as there is work applied to making it real; without that, hope is a dangerous adversary to moving on with life.

Years can be wasted on hope. To start this process of work, you must first forgive. To forgive is difficult, so I do not blame you. Next step is letting go; not forgetting, but letting go. To let go is to forgive oneself of hate and loathing at the situation and it's players. To ultimately set yourself free. 

You have not given up these, evidence now, and it is eating you up. To me, it would be better to be divorced then live like this. It sucks to be the one being cheated on, betrayed, then realizing that it is you who has to also do some work to fix things or yourself. 

It must be done though. It is how you get out of this.

[Stevnx3]

28 minutes ago, Subversa said:

1. He didn’t/doesn’t admit to it being a physical affair. I have ambiguous written proof that makes me think it was. He did take international flights during that time period and somehow the itinerary given to me never matched with his arrival time. I am 90% sure it was. 

Most do not right out admit to affair, to cheating, until caught you were truly owed honesty. Good on you for doing digging and finding out that things weren't matching up!

29 minutes ago, Subversa said:

2. I found all proof of the affair myself, he never admitted to anything. When I put proof in front of his, he grudgingly admitted to it. When I asked him that why don’t I get honesty from you, he said he wants to salvage what was left of our relationship. 

Caught. So now he wants to salvage his relationship. Only now does he concern himself with his relationship and saving it, at the doorstep of death. It took you presenting evidence to him. No surprise. He should have been working on you and him, with open dialogue ( this is why communication is important ) instead of an affair.

31 minutes ago, Subversa said:

3. I asked him if he really loved her, which he did, he said that it was all a fantasy. An escape from life. And that he never wanted a life with her. That she pursued him(true to an extent). That she was a manipulative person who knew how to say the right things. He said if He wanted to be with MOW, He would have. He says he hates her now. He said he wanted to break it off with her many times but got sucked in. That it was like an addiction.

This is manipulative on his part. He got caught. Now he must be a victim of circumstances and her wooing him. Truth remains, my dear, that he could have ended it at any point if he truly wanted that.

She may have pursued, but he allowed that and honestly pursued back. I do not doubt that it was some kind of fantasy for both of them. But it has a real effects. 

He wanted fun with her. I will not pretend to know if he loves her or not. Does he really hate her? Sounds like nice words to say to his scorned wife, no?

35 minutes ago, Subversa said:

He was extremely expressive with her, there were ‘I love you’s’ All the time. Discussions of day to day things etc. 
 

I just have difficulty believing these things, I feel I’m not getting enough honesty(which is the only thing I demanded) and that is where my anger comes from. 

Bolded is meaningless. Just talk for talks sake so that he can hook her. Probably vice versa. But anything is possible.

I do not blame you for being angry. Just that there has to come a time to heal. If only for yourself and the things you have in life. No, I do not believe he is being 100% honest with you - he may never be? Hard to say.

If you feel this way, there is only one remedy. 

[BaileyB]

1 hour ago, Subversa said:

I found all proof of the affair myself, he never admitted to anything. When I put proof in front of his, he grudgingly admitted to it. When I asked him that why don’t I get honesty from you, he said he wants to salvage what was left of our relationship. 

This, would bother me more than anything else. He is trying to make amends, but he has not accepted full responsibility for the affair. He continues to give you the “trickle truth” which is why you can’t believe him when he says it was not a physical affair. 

Add to the fact that he places all the blame on her - she pursued him as if he had no choice in the matter... Again, where is his own responsibility? She may have instigated the relationship, but had he said “thanks, but no thanks, I have a wife and children waiting for me at home...” nothing would have happened. It was HIS decision to get with this woman, despite what he may say. 

You and I both know that it’s very unlikely that an affair that happened on the other side of the earth with “I love you’s” was likely NOT only an emotional affair.

Edited July 13, 2020 by BaileyB

[heartwhole2]

Ah Subversa, it sounds to me like your husband isn't doing his part. Grand gestures are nice when they are in addition to the hard work of becoming a more empathetic and selfless person who learns how to take responsibility. But a man who is gaslighting you about it being a PA and casting himself as the victim of a predatory OW has not done the work.

My question is whether that's still who he is today, or were these your initial conversations when you talked about it a lot? I think rebuilding after an affair requires discussing it at will as often as it takes to process things. So if your discussion of the affair hasn't been dynamic, then his ownership of it probably hasn't been either. Has he done any counseling?

I can relate to a lot of your story. My husband's affair was transcontinental as well. He met OW when she was in the country with some mutual friends and then they kept in touch and flirted until she said, "I'm falling for you." I assumed it was an EA on DDay only because she lives 10,000 kilometers away. He had tried to casually announce he might visit her country a couple of months before DDay and I reacted like any sane person would ("WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU MIGHT BE GOING TO THIS COUNTRY RANDOMLY IN TWO WEEKS") and I remember he huffily said, "Fine! If it will be such a problem in our marriage, then I won't go!" like a martyr. So I assumed that had been his attempt to make it a PA and we had dodged a bullet. But when things just didn't add up and I couldn't figure out why my reality didn't feel right, I charged up his old phone and found an email where she thanked him for the plane ticket and couldn't believe she was going to see him soon. And I realized that corresponded to a business trip he had taken out of town. I knew better than to ask him a yes/no question at that point, so I just said, "Obviously you slept together!" knowing that he might give a feeble "no" if asked but he would not have the balls to contradict me stating it outright.

Honesty is an important foundation for rebuilding. Of course, there can be a chasm between not liking to lie and having the self-awareness and resilience to be honest with yourself. A wayward needs to do both (after having really doubled down on crappy coping skills by having an affair), but it's really hard to grow that self-awareness and resilience if you feel OK lying when it suits you. And his whole, "I only lie so we can salvage our relationship . . ." Hey mister, you don't get to unilaterally decide what's good for your relationship. That's how you got into this mess.

[Subversa]

I feel I need to clarify that while he does take responsibility for his actions. He says that while she did approach him first he never should have gone through with the affair. He says it was the worst decision of his life and that it won’t happen again. I believe him on this for now. He had shown remorse with his actions. We have talked about his affair all this time and he has always listened to me and apologized. Never once has he blamed me.
 

That being said he wasn’t/isn’t honest about the details of the affair. He says it wasn’t physical but something in my gut tells me it was. I was snippets of proof but nothing concrete. 

What I understand is that he lied about them being official trips and took them to her home country instead of going to the business trips. 1. He Doesn’t need to take international business trips. 2. The itinerary didn’t coincide. 3. The MOW visited our country while I was on an international trip for a month with kids. 
 

He cares a lot about what I think of him. Even after I found out there was so much trickle-truth that my head spin. All that said I just assume it was physical at some point. 

[Stevnx3]

9 minutes ago, Subversa said:

I feel I need to clarify that while he does take responsibility for his actions. He says that while she did approach him first he never should have gone through with the affair. He says it was the worst decision of his life and that it won’t happen again. I believe him on this for now. He had shown remorse with his actions. We have talked about his affair all this time and he has always listened to me and apologized. Never once has he blamed me.
 

That being said he wasn’t/isn’t honest about the details of the affair. He says it wasn’t physical but something in my gut tells me it was. I was snippets of proof but nothing concrete. 

What I understand is that he lied about them being official trips and took them to her home country instead of going to the business trips. 1. He Doesn’t need to take international business trips. 2. The itinerary didn’t coincide. 3. The MOW visited our country while I was on an international trip for a month with kids. 
 

He cares a lot about what I think of him. Even after I found out there was so much trickle-truth that my head spin. All that said I just assume it was physical at some point. 

I'd say it was physical. The absence of evidence, isn't the evidence of absence, hope I said that right!

Of course, you have some evidence. Remember, where there is smoke, there is fire! It doesn't add up.

If he has no reason to go on these trips out of country, then there is no other reason but the MOW as to why he went on them. Especially going to her country. So, I'd say it turned physical. Well, a very good chance it did.

Good. Happy that he shows remorse and isn't blaming you. I take it that he told you these other things, before? Now he his thoughts are different?

If so, what will you do? You have to forgive him if that is the path you want to stick with, and he truly is repentant of it.

[BaileyB]

55 minutes ago, heartwhole2 said:

And his whole, "I only lie so we can salvage our relationship . . ." Hey mister, you don't get to unilaterally decide what's good for your relationship. That's how you got into this mess.

Exactly. He is continuing to protect himself, his motives are not entirely selfless...

IF he was really wants to salvage what’s left of your relationship, he would do what you ask and provide the truth. His attempt to keep the truth from you may be the very thing that causes you to leave the marriage - he is creating the very thing he says he doesn’t want by not being honest with you. 

I agree with heartwhole, who never fails to amaze me with her thoughtful and compassionate posts, he has not done the work that is required to have a successful reconciliation. At some point you will have to decide if what he has done is enough, or divorce. Right now, you have one foot in and one foot out, and that’s a difficult way to live...

Edited July 13, 2020 by BaileyB

[Subversa]

55 minutes ago, heartwhole2 said:

My question is whether that's still who he is today, or were these your initial conversations when you talked about it a lot?

@heartwhole2 he has maintained from the start that he is 100% responsible for the affair and he will face whatever consequences arise. He has also maintained that the OW manipulated him, which she did to an extent, i saw proof. 
 

I have always maintained that I hold him responsible though and shut down his attempts to blame the MOW.

[Subversa]

58 minutes ago, heartwhole2 said:

And his whole, "I only lie so we can salvage our relationship . . ." Hey mister, you don't get to unilaterally decide what's good for your relationship. That's how you got into this mess.

@heartwhole2 Exactly what I tell him. That he doesn’t get to pick what I need to know and what I don’t. The ONLY thing I wanted was complete honesty for reconciliation and that’s the only thing I haven’t received. 

I have access to all devices, every single password without asking. He shares every unknown number that called him. Doesn’t take trips. All of this without me asking for it. And has been doing this for years now. he is transparent in every way you can imagine.

But this isn’t what I needed for my healing. 

[Subversa]

19 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

IF he was really wants to salvage what’s left of your relationship, he would do what you ask and provide the truth. His attempt to keep the truth from you may be the very thing that causes you to leave the marriage - he is creating the very thing he says he doesn’t want by not being honest with you. 

Bingo. 

 

21 minutes ago, Stevnx3 said:

Good. Happy that he shows remorse and isn't blaming you. I take it that he told you these other things, before? Now he his thoughts are different?

No, stance has been the same from the start. He takes full responsibility for the affair. Doesn’t blame me at all. If I ask about the MOW then he does say that she was manipulative. Which she was, I have seen proof. 

He continues to be transparent and helps make me feel safe. Basically does everything right other than being honest and open about the affair. 

 

[Stevnx3]

5 minutes ago, Subversa said:

@heartwhole2 Exactly what I tell him. That he doesn’t get to pick what I need to know and what I don’t. The ONLY thing I wanted was complete honesty for reconciliation and that’s the only thing I haven’t received. 

I have access to all devices, every single password without asking. He shares every unknown number that called him. Doesn’t take trips. All of this without me asking for it. And has been doing this for years now. he is transparent in every way you can imagine.

But this isn’t what I needed for my healing. 

You need him to give you the details? All honesty?

It may not help much...But if he does; and you must communicate this further with him - if he does, you two should work on repairing yourselves and your relationship. If not...well that might be that. It has been years.

I get what you are craving from him.

[Stevnx3]

Just now, Subversa said:

No, stance has been the same from the start. He takes full responsibility for the affair. Doesn’t blame me at all. If I ask about the MOW then he does say that she was manipulative. Which she was, I have seen proof. 

He continues to be transparent and helps make me feel safe. Basically does everything right other than being honest and open about the affair. 

What exactly are you all looking for, say, from him being honest? Like did they have sex? Did they meet on international trips?

I think you should make it clear to him. You want to know these things. Be open and communicative with you. If he tells you, it will help heal you...or start the journey thereof.

[Subversa]

2 minutes ago, Stevnx3 said:

What exactly are you all looking for, say, from him being honest? Like did they have sex? Did they meet on international trips?

I think you should make it clear to him. You want to know these things. Be open and communicative with you. If he tells you, it will help heal you...or start the journey thereof.

Yes I want him to admit they were physical. I don’t want details. But to forgive I atleast need to know WHAT I am forgiving. 
Yes, I have communicated and asked for this countless times over the years. He never gave it to me. He never volunteered any information at all. It has led to resentment, bitterness and anger on my part. Thus, leading me to vengeful thoughts. The only motive behind them would be to give me a dose of his medicine and help heal my own self. 

[Stevnx3]

9 minutes ago, Subversa said:

Yes I want him to admit they were physical. I don’t want details. But to forgive I atleast need to know WHAT I am forgiving. 
Yes, I have communicated and asked for this countless times over the years. He never gave it to me. He never volunteered any information at all. It has led to resentment, bitterness and anger on my part. Thus, leading me to vengeful thoughts. The only motive behind them would be to give me a dose of his medicine and help heal my own self. 

I understand. He should divulge all information that you have requested of him. As this is a method to regain your trust. Simple as that. Bit concerning that he will not do so. He should. Does he not want you to move past this? He needs to give it a rest!

A dose of his medicine? You mean affair? 

[Subversa]

16 minutes ago, Stevnx3 said:

I understand. He should divulge all information that you have requested of him. As this is a method to regain your trust. Simple as that. Bit concerning that he will not do so. He should. Does he not want you to move past this? He needs to give it a rest!

A dose of his medicine? You mean affair? 

@Stevnx3 first of all Thankyou so much for helping me out! It is incredibly helpful. 
He very much wants us both to move forward. He wants to help me move past this. I think he is too ashamed to admit to the physical affair. I think he believes if he finally does admit to it, I will get disenchanted? Will drift away further? I am not sure what his thought process is.

The fact remains that he denies it, while I have proof(incomplete and vague). 
 

Hmm, yes an affair. Past few years I have cried, pleaded, coaxed him to come 100% clean about everything because it is important to me. He has not. 

[Stevnx3]

4 minutes ago, Subversa said:

@Stevnx3 first of all Thankyou so much for helping me out! It is incredibly helpful. 
He very much wants us both to move forward. He wants to help me move past this. I think he is too ashamed to admit to the physical affair. I think he believes if he finally does admit to it, I will get disenchanted? Will drift away further? I am not sure what his thought process is.

The fact remains that he denies it, while I have proof(incomplete and vague). 
 

Hmm, yes an affair. Past few years I have cried, pleaded, coaxed him to come 100% clean about everything because it is important to me. He has not. 

YVW. I am here to help as best as I can! 

If he wants this, why o why does he not just tell you what you need to hear? He should be ashamed! But he should also put that shame in proper place and tell you. It just seems so simple, to me, and yet I understand how hard it must be to confess to all of that!

Certainly not a proud moment! Did you explain to him that you have stayed here, even to this date, and wouldn't go anywhere if he told you? I mean, clearly you could have been gone by now. Try to explain that to him. If he is honest in wanting to fix this, he will tell you. 

Very often though, you never get the full facts. You may have to come to terms with that.

As far as you having an affair, I will not judge you on it. I do not think it will make anything better either. It will take away your moral position. But let's be honest here: You are tired of being moral, and holding out. There are cracks in your shield. But wouldn't it be better to divorce and then keep your moral dignity intact? 

[mark clemson]

On 7/12/2020 at 6:28 AM, Subversa said:

You might not know me but I have known many of the regular posters since 2017. I know many of you digitally, your struggles and value your input a lot. I have debated posting this in infidelity since I’m a BS but on the verge of becoming an OW. 

Well, if you know my take on things from posts here, you probably know what I'd say about telling the BH in a case where there are kids involved and he's potentially physically abusive.

 

4 hours ago, Subversa said:

I just have difficulty believing these things, I feel I’m not getting enough honesty(which is the only thing I demanded) and that is where my anger comes from.

I tend to agree with the current tack of this thread that he hasn't yet been fully honest with you and that may be significant part of what's driving your current emotional state and inability to fully reconcile.

Definitely tend to agree as well with the thoughts that either leaving or fully reconciling (if possible) would probably make a lot more sense than a revenge affair that you tell your husband about. You could also unilaterally open your marriage (six of one, a half dozen of the other). But as noted by several folks above - what would be the point? If your end goal is to reconcile, it'd almost certainly be counterproductive; if your end goal is to leave, why bother monkeybranching when you could just do it.

Edited July 13, 2020 by mark clemson