Input needed

[HadMeOverABarrel]

1 hour ago, Subversa said:

I feel he doesn’t avoid that subject not out of malice/intention to deceive but out of selfishness and self-preservation. 

EXACTLY!

1 hour ago, Subversa said:

There was definitely vilifying me by WH in conversations with the MOW. I later asked him about few specific things he said, and asked him why he lied about me, he had no answer.

Sorry for you on behalf of him. I can tell you the answer though: He was being selfish! That is why. Nothing more, nothing less.

It was triangulation to egg her on. Makes him look like a victim so she'll heap her lovin's on him to make him feel all better. That's probably painful for you to hear, but that's what it's really about I think.

[DKT3]

Has it occurred to you that he may actually be telling you the truth? Its extremely rare,  but sometimes a WH wont have sex with the OW.

I believe many BS make the mistake of trying to find logic in a WS behavior,  often there is no logic. 

As far as what he said...while it can be painful,  it's often more role playing then him speaking frankly.  MM tend to feed off of the OW and tell her what she needs to hear. This is because OW tend to make it much more about her vs you then she is to make it about them. They often have a tough time understanding how he could possibly want to stay with a wife that she sees as inferior to her.

The lie detector.  I firmly believe that you are looking to punish your husband,  I believe that not taking the offer will effectively take away your ability to do so guilt free should he pass. Just like hanging divorce and sex with other men over his head. I also firmly believe that you don't actually intend on doing any of it. I draw this conclusion from the fact that you actually love your husband and WANT to stay married. 

That's what you need to be discussing with your therapist,  why you have this drive to punish your husband.  

[heartwhole2]

I wrote a long post and lost it, sigh.

I strongly disagree that you are bent on punishing your husband. You don't seem to get perverse joy out of anything. If anything, I would say that you give him too much credit. It's OK to let your husband bring home dinner without it being a great sign of his remorse or being a great partner. 

I think the issue is that you can't have peace without the truth, and you're throwing darts out there to see what could bring you peace. I think the revenge affair idea is a call for help to your husband, a desperate plea for him to see how unhealed you are. You haven't gone and done it; as soon as you got advice saying it wasn't a great idea, you quickly soured on the idea (probably why you came here in the first place). 

If he's telling the truth, if this was a magically chaste two-year long affair with time spent in the same place, then he should be eager to prove that. He should be the one scheduling the lie detector test. It's not a favor to you for him to prove that the thing that seems obvious didn't really happen. It's what you deserve and require.

If he's not telling the truth, then he's spent two years gaslighting you because he knows better than you what get to know. It's condescending on one hand, and cowardly on the other. You're stuck where you were on DDay because he hasn't provided what you need to move forward even though you have asked him clearly and even though it's his responsibility, not yours, to put this right. 

Please don't internalize the idea that you're some perverse masochist not giving your husband enough credit. I wasn't there so I can't tell you what happened between them. But I can tell you that it's his job to be proactive in putting your mind at ease. 

I say you should schedule the test. No more talking, pleading, explaining. You've wanted decisive action to give things a reset. This could be it.

[Subversa]

8 hours ago, DKT3 said:

Has it occurred to you that he may actually be telling you the truth?

Thankyou for taking the time out to respond @DKT3, I value your opinion a lot.

Yes, there is a possibility that he is actually telling the truth however slim.

FACTS: This was a trans-continental affair. Yes, he took international business trips but I don't have concrete in-hand evidence that he went to her hometown. Just my hunches. Yes, he mentioned her visiting my home-town with her family while I was away but I don't have concrete evidence they met. There is a mention of a meeting they had in the conversations I have of them once but WH says that is all fantasy. He says everything on there is a fantasy and wishful thinking. In those conversations, my WH sounds like a delusional guy who was fantasizing a lot.

The only thing in those conversations that might tell me he is telling that truth is that he DID try putting up boundaries. She outright refused. After he broke it off, I asked him about different things that he said and that if he wanted to actually do them. He said it was all fantasy and that he never planned to leave me/marry her etc. That if he really wanted to leave he would have left. 

Here is the part that isn't true. I am not trying to punish him. I, of course, share how I feel (when he asks AND otherwise) so as to be honest and help him understand my pain and where we both currently are in our relationship. 

Just to clarify, I don't hold divorce over his head. Divorce was mentioned in early days of discovery where I gave him the option to do it if he really wanted out, no grudges held. Several times because new facts came to light with trickle-truth each time adding more depth to the affair. Thus, adding fresh agony each time for me. I just assumed if he was in this deep with her he would want to divorce. That topic has been close for a while.

I wanted to get the polygraph done but I was annoyed that he kept asking ME to schedule it. The onus of discoveries and recovery was ALL on me back then. He just wanted to move on. That made me angry. I first quit marriage counseling and then never scheduled the polygraph. For me, it was more like if he isn't being proactive in proving himself why should I make the effort. Yes, it was wrong. I should have dealt with it then. 

 

[Subversa]

  

8 hours ago, heartwhole2 said:

I strongly disagree that you are bent on punishing your husband.

Thankyou so much @heartwhole2 for taking out precious time to respond. This has helped me beyond belief.

I don't punish him but I see why the assumption could be made. You guys are only going on the information I have provided here. The truth is even in reality a couple's  perception of where their relationship stands could be different. 

 

8 hours ago, heartwhole2 said:

you're throwing darts out there to see what could bring you peace

Spot on. I have been trying different things since many years each of them failed one by one because I only needed truth and honesty. None of the over the top attention, love bombing which only proved to be band aid over a bleeding wound.

Its become clear to me that the onus of being proactive in recovery again falls on me. The guy who created this mess just has his eye firmly shut and back turned away. He pretends that if he does more, just some more, then the wife can finally move on. 

I am just afraid at this point what I might find and that the burden of decision will fall on me. AGAIN. I am afraid of how I might feel after the results.

[Buffer]

Hey young lady,

So sorry you are going through this for so long.

First off, a RA is never the answer, two wrongs never make a right. Why lower down to that to get a slight gratification that will cause the pain to both of you? 
His reluctance to acknowledge the possibility of it being a full blown PA. I can only think he feels that admitting to that will show him that he is that bad betrayal of a husband that he is just a WH. No morals or boundaries, just a POS.

Communication can only help, I understand you feel like you are in a racetrack just going in circles, never a off ramp.

I can only really offer cyber support and a big cyber hugs 🤗 

One day at a time

Buffer

[Stevnx3]

20 minutes ago, Subversa said:

Its become clear to me that the onus of being proactive in recovery again falls on me. The guy who created this mess just has his eye firmly shut and back turned away. He pretends that if he does more, just some more, then the wife can finally move on. 

That's the problem! You have to put in all the effort to make your relationship work! He should be divulging all the truth to you; even if it makes him look worse for it! How can you feasibly move on, without this? You shouldn't have to do the digging or begging him. 

If he were as sincere about saving this marriage, on the brink because of his actions, he would tell you! He has checked out. Really pathetic on his part. 

[pepperbird]

On 7/12/2020 at 12:51 PM, Subversa said:

Yes I have no doubt he will divorce her once he finds out. How is that my problem though? In those conversations she told my husband plenty of times that she wants him all to herself. She has also said that kids(as in my kids) adjust and they are happy whenever they see their parents happy. She was more interested in putting me down and degrading me than leaving me alone and enjoying her side relationship with my husband. 
 

She was obsessed with me and not in a good way. Asking and begging my husband to please sleep in separate room. To send her pictures of me? She used to ask how much I weight? How often I wax? Asking my husband about my parents and family? Wanting him to send her our pictures? Calling her husband  horrible names and putting down his sexual performance. Making fun of him as a human being.

 I would never have though anyone  would be capable of this but I was proved wrong. 

 

So pardon me if I don’t want to mollycoddle her relationship with her husband. 

um, that woman sounds like she has some serious issues going on ( and unless you have actually seen nit with your own eyes, I wouldn't buy into her being a victim of domestic violence- sounds more like a bid for sympathy to me than the truth)


 I would get as far away from her as I possibly can. I understand wanting to tell her husband, and normally, I'd think it was a fine idea. In this situation, not so much.  It's not so she won't be hurt, it's because it sounds like she has become somewhat obsessed with you. My husband's OW was like that, and it took over a decade to get rid of her. She wouldn't pester him, but she'd pester me. Any scrap of attention would get her going, and we finally had to get law enforcement involved.

As for you having an affair of your own...is that really "you" talking or your hurt and anger? It's so important that you figure that out, because once you cheat, you can never, ever take it back. Even if your husband never knows, you will and you don't strike me as the kind of person who thinks infidelity is okay.

[pepperbird]

21 hours ago, Subversa said:

@heartwhole2 Exactly what I tell him. That he doesn’t get to pick what I need to know and what I don’t. The ONLY thing I wanted was complete honesty for reconciliation and that’s the only thing I haven’t received. 

I have access to all devices, every single password without asking. He shares every unknown number that called him. Doesn’t take trips. All of this without me asking for it. And has been doing this for years now. he is transparent in every way you can imagine.

But this isn’t what I needed for my healing. 

Healing won't come from him. It will come from you.
In a way, I was really lucky ( yes, I know how weird that sounds) because after my husband  confessed, he had to leave. He was gone for a year, and for a lot of that time, there was no way for us to communicate. 

That left me with lots of time on my own to figure out what I wanted. I spoke to a lawyer, saw a counsellor and even a military Padre ( he taught me a whole string of Quebecois French swear words🤣) who helped me understand what was going on. I gathered as much information as I could and when I decided to stay, I knew it was because it was what I was freely choosing to do. So did he.

[heartwhole2]

I wouldn't beat yourself up about letting the lie detector test go at the time. It's hard to hold the tension between seeing the long game -- understanding that a person can't develop new resilience and compassion overnight -- and upholding boundaries so that your wayward spouse does not continue harming you through their actions or inaction. After you've been cheated on, you deserve a lot better than your conflict avoidant spouse dragging their feet and hoping things will just blow over. But you have to deal with the reality that a person's who has been cheating often lacks the qualities and personal insight required to handle the fallout of an affair proactively and honestly. 

You've been processing a lot here and I don't think you need to know what's what yet. But of course the only person who can decide what you want and where to go from here is you. 

Edited July 14, 2020 by heartwhole2

[Subversa]

12 hours ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

Wierdly, we never passed home plate

@HadMeOverABarrel, I am sorry for asking that question already assuming the answer. I am glad you stood your ground. He sounds like a guy with way too many issues going on. You deserve infinitely better.

12 hours ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

Makes him look like a victim so she'll heap her lovin's on him to make him feel all better

That's what WH said later that he wanted MOW's sympathies. I am sure she wanted his. ☹️

[HadMeOverABarrel]

7 hours ago, Subversa said:

I am sorry for asking that question already assuming the answer

Not a problem ☺

7 hours ago, Subversa said:

I am glad you stood your ground. He sounds like a guy with way too many issues going on. You deserve infinitely better.

Thank you. Infinitely better is what I'm aiming for! 😉

7 hours ago, Subversa said:

That's what WH said later that he wanted MOW's sympathies. I am sure she wanted his

SMH! It's sad how much pain this invites into people's lives. There's such a better way to deal and it begins with honesty.

On the other hand, I could get esoteric and say there's a spiritual purpose to it all, and can make us into better people. My experience certainly did that for me. It was soooooo hard though. So much work, pain, disappointment. Cost me a lot in many ways. Still the lessons learned will be valuable in every relationship going forward for decades to come. 

This might sound crazy, but try to not run from the pain. Embrace it. My counselor says you have to feel it to heal it. There is a pot of gold at the end of this dingy rainbow! 🌈 Just keep going. 💜

Edited July 14, 2020 by HadMeOverABarrel
Typo

[Subversa]

What do you guys think about me contacting the MOW and asking her about the details of the affair? As in saying that I know all that went on and ask why they slept together. The take it from there, see her response?

[Subversa]

18 minutes ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

Not a problem ☺

Thank you. Infinitely better is what I'm aiming for! 😉

SMH! It's sad how much pain this invites into people's lives. There's such a better way to deal and it begins with honesty.

On the other hand, I could get esoteric and say there's a spiritual purpose to it all, and can make us into better people. My experience certainly did that for me. It was soooooo hard though. So much work, pain, disappointment. Cost me a lot in many ways. Still the lessons learned will be valuable in every relationship going forward for decades to come. 

This might sound crazy, but try to not run from the pain. Embrace it. My counselor says you have to feel it to heal it. There is a pot of gold at the end of this dingy rainbow! 🌈 Just keep going. 💜

Thankyou @HadMeOverABarrel, you are a very brave soul and deserve to be at peace since you did a lot of hard work for your recovery. Please don’t judge me for asking this question. 

I am okay a few days and there are few days i am in horrible pain. I feel so disrespected that I just feel like walking away from it all. 

[HadMeOverABarrel]

23 minutes ago, Subversa said:

Please don’t judge me for asking this question

Nah, no judgement here. I don't blame you for wanting to know. I feel you're trying to make decisions about your marriage. Fact checking, gathering information, comparing notes...it's all part of the process. I think you're trying to determine if your getting trivkle truths and whether your husband truly will be reliable and honest if you decide to stick it out. Totally normal and reasonable.

25 minutes ago, Subversa said:

I feel so disrespected that I just feel like walking away from it all.

Do what you feel is best for you. Take your time to decide what that is. 

[Stevnx3]

35 minutes ago, Subversa said:

What do you guys think about me contacting the MOW and asking her about the details of the affair? As in saying that I know all that went on and ask why they slept together. The take it from there, see her response?

MOW would likely rebuff you for asking. You may not gain anything from it...Impossible to say.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

44 minutes ago, Subversa said:

What do you guys think about me contacting the MOW and asking her about the details of the affair? As in saying that I know all that went on and ask why they slept together. The take it from there, see her response?

I vote no.  All your answers are already inside you. You don't need her; don't give her that significance or opportunity to re-enter your lives. 

If this helps: the very few remaining q's I have about xMM, I finally realized have more to do with me than him. He can't give me the answers I need. There is nothing he can give me that will benefit my life. (Same for you with her) Trying to get those answers from her will result in much more heartache by reopening that doorway.

You have everything you need. It's difficult to see that right now. How do you know she'll be honest with you anyhow? Just so many reasons I can think of to leave her where she belongs...in your past! Soon enough her ghost will fade too.

Edited July 15, 2020 by HadMeOverABarrel

[mark clemson]

It seems that would be an attempt to reach closure on the PA question. I think one problem is - can you trust what she says?

If she says no PA, is she just covering for him?

If she says yes PA, is she just hoping to drive a wedge between you (still)?

If you think you could actually believe her, then it might help you find closure. But I suspect you'd just be left wondering. You can't even visibly assess her as it would be phone call or email, right?

I think it's really your husband who is the one you need to feel is being honest with you. Then whatever she might or might not say wouldn't matter.

Edited July 15, 2020 by mark clemson

[heartwhole2]

I fully support your need to know what really happened, but I'm wondering what if the upshot (if any) of asking MOW instead of going through with the lie detector test? Logically I'd think you should do the test first and if it's inconclusive for some reason, then consider other means of obtaining info. 

 

[Subversa]

Thankyou so much everyone who responded. This has been incredibly helpful and more cathartic than therapy... 

I have no one in real life to understand this. All of you are correct, the MOW would not give me the truth even if coerced. She was interested in getting married to my WH and getting out of her own marriage. 
 

After DDAY the MOW aggressively tried to contact me. My WH shut her down strictly probably because he didn’t want me to find out the extent of the affair. I know there were plenty of threats etc issued from her to my WH. I was in trauma and wasn’t taking much notice of what was going on  between them. So yes, it would be futile to contact her. Lie detector remains my best option. I will update once it’s done. 

I have just been in a different headspace since past few days. Every thing was mostly okay until it just wasn’t.. 

Again, Thankyou so much to everyone for your compassion, honesty and helping someone while fighting battles of your own. Good vibes your way. 

[Stevnx3]

MOW is completely crazy! I wish he never brought this upon your relationship. 

I wish you the best with the Lie Detector @Subversa! If he refuses to take it, after saying he would if you wanted it. Then we definitely know something was up!

[merrmeade]

Quote

 

Oh my goodness, Subversa. I was so overwhelmed by my own purge that I didn’t realize where you were coming from. I’ve read about half of this thread and will go back and finish the second half at some point but want to convey a couple of things that might be timely for you.

There’s really a lot to address, so let me say, first of all, that I am so sorry for your suffering. I know how raw and debilitating it is and that no amount of advice about forgiving or any other high-minded control of your feelings will help one iota. Don’t feel guilty or get distracted by all the “should’s.” I am a firm believer - and this is also the result of therapy - that if there are any “shoulds” regarding your feelings, it’s that you should only feel them. Don’t deny, ignore or try to change. Just let them be and for the painful ones like grief, sadness, anger especially you don’t want to mess with them or you’ll pay a bigger price later. Forgiveness happens when the feelings are spent. You are doing your best, and you will heal. This will not be your reality forever.

3 to 5 years.. It took me the full five and then some. In the end I decided I had to get off the couch and take pills. I got a prescription for Wellbutrin, which seemed a little less heavy-duty, but mainly it got me off the couch. You might want to consider talking to your doctor about it. It erases the bottom of the pain, so that it can never pull you down as far as before. You can look at your problem (the problem H and WO dumped on you, to be accurate) without feeling like it’s pulling you down into a bottomless hole.

Another aside: It’s late where I am and I apologize if you addressed this already, but have you talked about your therapy? That was one thing that struck me in your opening post—the incompatibility of planning a revenge affair with working on your own healing. My therapist would have been all over that in a New York minute, so please tell me it was all your idea and not endorsed by your therapist.

Now to your proposed actions for obtaining some level of peace after your sh-thole of a husband’s near destruction of your marriage:

I feel like we have been pulling petals out of a daisy with you - 4 instead of 2:

“Have a revenge affair” 
“Tell OW’s husband”
“Don’t have a revenge affair” 
“Don’t tell OW’s husband”

I think none of these are the questionsv to be answered. You are right now a volcano needing to erupt and these are the ways that feel the most cathartic to your imagination. Sleep claims my brain, so I’d just have to share my main concerns before it shuts me down.

Frankly, I’m not shocked by either one but agree with the others that the revenge affair is beneath you and you will regret it. I agree that it will complicate your marriage in ways that it may not survive.

Second, telling the OW’s husband;  I think you should do it and not for any of the reasons given. I think you should do it for yourself. As it is, you are swirling with all this rage and indignation at being disgraced. On a moral side, yes, he has a right to know, but more compelling is your need to be vindicated AND your RIGHT to see your husband outed. 

______________

Now,. because of my brain’s right to be immersed in delta-wave sleep right now, I’m combining responses to multiple posts and want to speak to your other right: the right to know the truth. 

In your post responding to my situation in another thread, you listed similar behaviors of our WHs. Well, here is another and I promise you, they are still going to be parallel. I think your husband is still lying. They did not have an emotional-only affair. It’s the typical ruse. They just reveal enough but to shut you up. Always. As someone said to me, they’re two adults attracted to each other and they were alone together. They had intercourse.

Now what I think would also satisfy your need to know would be further investigation into where he really went on those out-of-town business trips. I suddenly realized the value of bank and credit card statements after two or three years from D-Day. Get them from your bank and all your credit card companies, maybe PayPal - anywhere he might have charged a hotel, meal or gift. Check on birthdays - hers especially - and Valentines for purchases. Check for sex toy purchases (well, maybe your H isn’t as raunchy as mine - but disgustingly true. He says “it was a joke” and she returned it. Whatever.).I am assuming you’ve already combed through emails and phone and text usage records, right? All of the records of our lives are recorded in different ways. 

And I actually did a version of your proposal to tell the OW you know they had sex but you had a further question about it. I told my husband that the sister-in-law had confessed everything to me, so he also obliged - but not everything. I was “trickle-truthed” the whole way, as I believe is happening to you.

Obviously a lie detector test may help along these lines as well.

 

 

Edited July 31, 2020 by merrmeade
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[AidLiz]

I haven't read all the responses but my only advice to you, is get the book or audio book - State of Affairs by Esther Perel... having listened to it the past week, she speaks of things like revenge affairs, or telling the other BS, of recovering, of understanding affairs, and there are so many different examples, you feel like the book isn't written from just one perspective... 

Given the DV issues in the other M, I would not tell the other BS.... not matter what kind of person the other woman is, no-one deserves to be beaten... and if you telling him could lead to that outcome through his hurt and rage, I dont believe through your own hurt or anger, you would wish that upon the ow... so given you know that about their history, for that reason, I would not tell him. 

[Subversa]

On 7/31/2020 at 5:28 AM, merrmeade said:

 

Thankyou so responding merrmeade, yes RA is an idea that is solely mine. 
I saw a therapist for a while, he proposed medication for situational depression. I let him know everything and he helped and then some. I saw him for a year and the stopped.
But I never took any medicine. I don’t have trouble functioning in day-to-day life. 
There was an in-laws family dinner, the day  I found out about the affair. I went to dinner with husband and kids. Ate. Then came home and asked him about his affair. I have felt I have been doing myself a great disservice by keeping up appearances. 
Yes, I will tell the OBS one day. Not today, not tomorrow but someday. 
Yes, I have all phone records, a lot of conversations and emails. 
I had recovered racy pictures of the OW from his phone but WH got into my phone and deleted them. A**. 
I can’t do much about credit card statements, since WH used a company card. 
I have few good days in between when talking about this is nauseating. 
I won’t ever be able to indulge into something that makes me sick, even thinking about it. 
Lie-detector rest remains my best bet. 
 

Edited August 4, 2020 by Subversa

[merrmeade]

7 hours ago, Subversa said:

Thankyou so responding merrmeade, yes RA is an idea that is solely mine. 
I saw a therapist for a while, he proposed medication for situational depression. I let him know everything and he helped and then some. I saw him for a year and the stopped.
But I never took any medicine. I don’t have trouble functioning in day-to-day life. 
There was an in-laws family dinner, the day  I found out about the affair. I went to dinner with husband and kids. Ate. Then came home and asked him about his affair. I have felt I have been doing myself a great disservice by keeping up appearances. 
Yes, I will tell the OBS one day. Not today, not tomorrow but someday. 
Yes, I have all phone records, a lot of conversations and emails. 
I had recovered racy pictures of the OW from his phone but WH got into my phone and deleted them. A**. 
I can’t do much about credit card statements, since WH used a company card. 
I have few good days in between when talking about this is nauseating. 
I won’t ever be able to indulge into something that makes me sick, even thinking about it. 
Lie-detector rest remains my best bet. 
 

This exchange with people here does help over time. You're validated. You see you're not alone. You are the only person that's important in this discussion. You can post as many questions as you need to or talk about any aspect of this experience. The only rules are the rules of the forum and how we treat each other. You don't have to protect your husband's image or your children here. You also don't have to feel defensive about whatever you're doing or not doing. You don't have to take anyone's advice. 

But you are still raw. You have not gotten all the information you need - and no one can tell you what that is. You're left holding all these feelings of shock and outrage while being expected to go back to business as usual. That leaves you where? "Functioning in day-to-day life" with these heavy emotions in tow takes a toll and is itself keeping up appearances. 

Some people tell their in-laws, their own parents and siblings and their spouse's siblings right away. It does make a difference to tell what happened and hear someone else's outrage.

The other thing that helps is that not letting your spouse get away with pretending everything is fine under your own roof. You don't have any reason to protect him from your unresolved feelings. I forced my husband to listen to me. If I was suffering and working through something to do with what he'd done, he heard about it. It wasn't perfect understanding, and it was hard as hell. Those were definitely the hardest conversations I've ever had usually because of his reactions, but I have to give him credit for coming back again and again when I asked him to talk. It was a hard thing to admit, hear and confirm what he did and why he did it. It was hard to accept that I really needed to talk to understand it. But what happened was that each time we talked, I found out something more he hadn't told me before. He would sometimes explode with some new truth and we'd have to stop. He even asked me not to do it more than once a week and then not sooner than two weeks. If it'd been easy, it wouldn't have been genuine. After a while, I felt like I knew everything important that he'd done and that he was - and I made sure he knew it. It's remarkable in a way that he took it and did not hold it against me later, that I kept after it, and that we survived. Now, I am more oblique in my references, but it still keeps him more honest with himself. That's worth a lot. I got a lot of respect from him as a result of all that.

Who else are you talking to? If no one AND your husband expects you to act like everything is fine and it's all over, then I can see why you think you have only these options for vindication - have an affair or tell the OW's husband. But you do have other choices. Not easy ones but choices. You have the choice to make him listen to you. You have the choice to divorce him. You have the choice to tell his in-laws or other family members. NONE of these are easy. But personally I really think it needs to begin with you telling him how much trouble you're having and not to spare any of the anger you feel. It's a first step and a step toward possibly getting him to take the lie detector test as well.

If you really feel you have no choices but the ones you said, then I think carrying out either of those will make something happen. It's just that having an affair, will be just your classic exit affair. You would be forcing the issue and you and your husband would end up divorcing. It just would take a lot  more souls with it. 

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by merrmeade
clarification