Marriage on the Verge of Imploding (Maybe it Already Happened)

[RuckaMuckaSand]

So where to begin... I'm 39 years old, male. Currently married to my wife (younger 30s) with 2 kids (7 and 4). We've been together for 12 years, married for 8. I'll try not to make this too long, as people sometimes stop reading if it's a wall of text.

Backstory
We both worked, had successful jobs, got married, lived a great life, then had kids. Throughout the relationship, we've argued off and on, sometimes minor, other times really bad blowouts. Sometimes about her, sometimes about me, sometimes about us, sometimes about the kids or our blood-relatives. It's gotten worse over time. When it gets really bad, she would withhold sex/intimacy and I would threaten to divorce (although I don't mean it at all). Rinse, repeat. I never thought things were bad. Despite the fights, I forget about it and move on. Apparently, she never forgets and she has mentally taken a tally of every time it happens and it seems to have taken a toll on her. She's asked me to go to couples' counseling in the past, only for me to dismiss it. Call it pride, not realizing it was bad, etc. For me, my mentality of a counselor/therapist is when you hit rock bottom. She lost her job roughly 3 years ago and decided to be a stay at home mom. I never supported her in that decision up until last fall. Since COVID spiked, I was forced to WFH since March. This exacerbated our problems and that's when it went DEFCON-50. We hit rock bottom. I guess going to work was an "escape" for both of us but being in close quarters 24/7 did not bode well. We argued during the time I was home and she finally laid it out and said she didn't want to keep trying anymore.

In April, wife said she was not in love with me anymore. She felt we had no connection and in turn, there was no reason to continue being together. I got scared and I didn't want the marriage to end and I agreed to couples counseling. Because of COVID, it took me a long time to find a counselor who would see us. She focused mostly on personality tests (Myers-Briggs & enneagram) to show our personalities. I'm an ISTJ-T via Myers-Briggs and an enneagram Type 1w9. My wife is an ENFP (MB) and enneagram Type 7. We did counseling for 2 months. From the beginning it was more of the counselor listening and providing suggestions on how to grow as a couple. As it progressed, my wife had an extremely hard time trying to rekindle a relationship. For her, there was a block that she didn't want to do anything with me. Her happiness was gone when interacting with me. She would prefer to be alone the majority of the time, reading her book or watching TV. All my attempts were shut down (I even tried to go on dates again). I started to suspect something was up, but couldn't find any evidence of adultery/cheating. When looking for a laptop charger cord did I find a new vibrator toy that she never had before. It was quite elaborate. I got very angry about it. We argued about it and she said it was none of my business and it was for her to get her "release". It was a pain point for me, but what can you do?

Personally, I grew during the 2 months of counseling. The counselor was proud of me because of the progress I’ve made in not being angry, being more supportive, and being a better person all around. Despite all this, nothing changed. During the last month of counseling, it would get to a point where she said she couldn't try anymore, tears were shed, my heart was destroyed, only for her to come back and say she wanted to try a couple days later. She did this 3 times over the course of the month. The last time was the nail in the coffin, she said she needed to tell her parents (which she said she hasn't told them) and I told her to (thinking it would give her relief). But for her, it was a point of no return. We spent our last session with the counselor with me finally accepting it was the end and I needed to move on with my life. Wife said she wanted to move out-of-state to go back home and was wanting me to give her primary custody. I didn't respond and the next day, I took the kids to see my brother at the end May. My wife ended up going to see her parents to iron out next steps. During the time away, I talked to a lawyer since in divorce, she was going to take half of everything. The only thing I was concerned with was that I get a fair share of custody of the kids and that she didn't try to take the kids and move back home to her parent's city (over 3.5 hours away).

When I came home on May 31st from my brother's, wife said she wanted to give it one more shot. One more go for the sake of us. I was scared, reluctant, but hopeful. But things were not different. If you're wanting to give it 1 more go, you give it your all. She still had a hard time finding time for us. Her emotion wasn't there. When I asked her about it on several occasions, she said she was trying internally to come to the table and she was trying. But to me, there was no progress. Day after day, I tried to do things to gain her interest. She still wanted to be alone and she still used her vibrator about once a week. To me, it was no different than when my heart was hurting in counseling. As each day went by, I got more frustrated. There were no efforts (at least visible to me) of love/affection/intimacy. I didn't expect the intimacy thing since she said she couldn't have sex with someone she had no connection with. To her though, she said she was trying by cooking dinner and talking during meals.

Most Important Detail
By the 2nd week of June, I started to doubt us and the marriage. This is why I started this post and this account. I created an account on a dating site. If my wife said I'm not desired by her and she doesn't find me attractive, was it me? Did I have a chance if we split? Within a couple days, I got a match here and there. I learned the hard way that on dating sites (and by friends who used it) that there are a lot of times you get a match but the person will never respond. Well that's what happened. When I'd match, I'd send a message. On the 3rd week of June, I matched with a really pretty girl. My shock was more along the lines of, does a girl like that really like me? I asked her to coffee just based on curiosity sake. Would I have ever met someone in person? Probably not because I’m a coward. I never get a response. 2.5 weeks went by and I only matched with 5 people, 1 who I talked to (but quit talking to near the very beginning) and the other 4 were just me sending a single message. The only one I asked to meet was the pretty girl I mentioned earlier. Again, nobody responded to me.

Well a funny thing happened. The last week of June, we started hanging out more. Then on July 1st, my wife wanted to have sex with me. This blew my mind as it was my assumption that her statement of no sex = no connection meant that we were building one. At least that was what I thought. All the evidence I was looking for, for things getting better all happened that week. So fast forward to July 5. My wife already planned a trip to the beach with the kids to meet up with her immediate family. I wasn't going due to me having to work. She wanted to spend the day packing and relaxing before the trip and asked me to take care of the kids. I agreed and while spending time outside the home with the kids, I thought to myself.... "hey this is what you've been waiting for, you should delete that dating profile". Well those of you with kids know they are demanding and to delete the dating profile is more than just deleting the app. You have to go in and delete the account permanently. I ended up not getting to it and that evening was then my wife found out. She had to use my phone to call the airline since hers was dead and saw a notification of the dating app pop up. She got angry and demanded to see it. She read all my messages and my profile. She left for the airport the next day.

My Admission
It is now 7 days ago that this all happened. First and foremost, I acknowledge that I cheated. I acknowledge I made a mistake and it was one that I should have never ever have done. It shouldn't have even crossed my mind. My wife has a wide range of emotions right now. I wrote her a letter admitting guilt and my weaknesses (impatience with the reconciliation process, insecurity about her vibrator). I apologized in that letter and said I want us to work and I will work on rebuilding her trust. She ripped up the letter after reading it and told me at this point, she needs to figure out what to do next. Since we can't afford a full-blow separation with one of us moving out, I am locked upstairs in my home and I'm not allowed to talk/see her. We are to split taking care of the kids and we are not to eat meals or do anything together. This is until further notice. I spent yesterday and today with the kids. We had a good time, but I've been sad. Remorseful.

Comments/Advice/Suggestions?
So for those of you who read my post, thank you for reading. I know it was a lot to read but I ask for any kind of advice. I have talked to my brother and my 2 friends nearly every day on it and they are all telling me to be patient. On the flipside, they have mentioned that I never committed adultery, but she is treating it like I did. But I told them I'm not going to downplay it and I just want to reconcile. But at this point, I don't know if it will happen. My wife has already told me "everyone I've talked to about this says you're a cheater".

Where do I go from here??
I didn't commit adultery, although I did cheat. I wasn't the best partner but it wasn't brought to my attention until February.  The past few months have been awful thinking my marriage was over, but it seems like we are back to square one.

I'm so lost... I don't eat, I have trouble staying focused for work. I don't know how much longer I can be like this (since March).  I want it to work so badly.

[basil67]

I'm so sorry for all of you.   Thing is, once a marriage hits rock bottom, there's usually no coming back.  If you'd done counselling before it got to that stage, it may well have helped, but that's all water under the bridge now, but let's not pretend that you didn't know things bad before Feb of this year.   

That said, I wouldn't be too upset at yourself for having a bit of interest in other woman during recent times.  After all the switching from vaguely warm and cold from your wife, of course you'd want to have a peek at what's out there.  

I would implore you to not reconcile.  She's with you for the kids or the stability/convenience of sharing a house...but she's not there for you or for your love.  And if you want sex her in the future, I wouldn't be holding my breath.    The guys here sometimes talk about doing a 180 and I think this is where to go.   Don't be rude, but don't engage.  Stay aloof and above and as soon as you can, work out how to separate.

[jolehno]

As I see it, she had left the marriage by the time you started looking for a date. There's responsibility from her side, What would she say if she was to find a battery operated vagina hidden in your stuff?  Would she be as understanding as yourself?

If I were you, I would start checking phone, emails, facebook etc.  Her need to go to her hometown could be a fantasy to reconnect with an old flame, you lose nothing for checking. 

Also, you haven't cheat. Certainly did something stupid, but with a wife emasculating you for months, after counseling and you being the only one making the effort? She should be the one saying, look honey, I will be a wife to you from now on, please, don't go searching elsewhere for love. Tough love, that should be you approach, she left the marriage months ago, if you want her back, don't act as a sad puppy. No matter how you feel, dress well, go out, meet friends, take long walks.  A marriage is a two persons deal, you can't be married with someone who doesn't. Do the 180, as stated above!

[d0nnivain]

Oh good heavens.  I was on your side until you you joined the dating app.  Big mistake.  You jumped the gun.  In your wife's shoes she may have been on the fence & wanting to lean toward you & the marriage but that dating app just hurt. 

Delete the freaking app immediately.

Not talking & living under the same roof is not the answer.  You have to talk.  Talking is the only thing that fixes things.  Try doing sweet things for her.  It's hard. If she's so closed off she can't care any more you may not be able to reach her emotionally.

[RuckaMuckaSand]

Thanks for the responses so far everyone.

As of right now, the app was deleted the day she found it (along with the profile).

She is still angry and won't talk to me.  All her family knows.

Her desire to move back to her hometown isn't because of a flame, but because it's where her support system is.  Her family is VERY important to her.  After having a downhill marriage, losing her job, etc, the counselor said she lost her identity and is lost.  Now with this, she has nothing.  I am 100% sure it's not another man, but because her family is very close and she's even said several times (especially in the past), they supported me when you didn't.

As for doing nice things, today marked the first time I was able to talk to her and I asked if she wanted fast food (it was lunch time).  She was responded in a very angry/rude tone and even started swearing.  I kept my cool and went out and got her food.  She hasn't said anything to me since.

I know we have to talk to sort this out, but I'm trying to let her cool off (it's been 9 days since it's happened).  I know talking to a woman via a dating app isn't as serious as adultery, but it's still cheating and she's treating it the same.

 

[gamon]

Never threaten divorce. Especially if you don't mean it. It completely erodes whatever trust might remain.

You got angry with her because you found a vibrator. There's something really wrong with that response and if you don't realize how wrong it is you need to figure it out, regardless of whether your marriage is fixable or not.

In April you started counseling- for 2 months which brings you to June. At that point you started doubting the marriage so what do you do? Start dating..??? See my earlier comment about something really wrong with that.

I'm only reading your side and I'm feeling bad for your wife based only on what you posted here and I'm sure there's a whole lot more. You need to work on these things.

Edited to add "You are 100% sure there isn't another man". If you're not with her 100% of the time then you don't know. You can't know. Don't fool yourself into believing you have any control over what she does at this point. Especially given that she is aware that you dated other women. All bets are officially off.

 

Edited July 14, 2020 by gamon

[RuckaMuckaSand]

58 minutes ago, gamon said:

Never threaten divorce. Especially if you don't mean it. It completely erodes whatever trust might remain.

You got angry with her because you found a vibrator. There's something really wrong with that response and if you don't realize how wrong it is you need to figure it out, regardless of whether your marriage is fixable or not.

In April you started counseling- for 2 months which brings you to June. At that point you started doubting the marriage so what do you do? Start dating..??? See my earlier comment about something really wrong with that.

I'm only reading your side and I'm feeling bad for your wife based only on what you posted here and I'm sure there's a whole lot more. You need to work on these things.

Edited to add "You are 100% sure there isn't another man". If you're not with her 100% of the time then you don't know. You can't know. Don't fool yourself into believing you have any control over what she does at this point. Especially given that she is aware that you dated other women. All bets are officially off.

 

Right.  I learned the hard way that wasn't every right to threaten divorce.  When we did counseling, the counselor stated that this kind of talk most likely stemmed from the environment I grew up in. My parents are still married (at least 50-something years) but they did fight.  They used to threaten divorce every fight. I identified this is likely where it came from.  But the damage was done, at least the therapist identified why I used it so loosely.

You're right, I did get angry about the vibrator but I realized the wrong of my actions.  Before the dating app fiasco, we did have a talk about it and I let it go.  

Yes, I admit the wrongness about the dating app too and not giving the first reconciliation process the proper time & patience it needed.  As I read somewhere, reconciliation is a process, not an event.  I'm fully aware of that now.  While I thought I was on the path to improvement from the original couple's therapy, I realized there is still (and always will be) more growth I need to achieve.  I'm not saying I'll be fixed instantly or overnight, but being self-aware is the first step regardless of if I continue this marriage or if we break it off.  It's tools that I can use going forward.

And final clarity, I never dated anyone on the app (or saw them).  I just wanted to make that clear.  What I did do was try to have an emotional connection with someone but never even got to that point.  Regardless, I know that is completely wrong.

[Crazelnut]

Sorry, but I think your marriage is done. If you still hope to stay married, you're just going to have to wait this one out and see if she comes around. Honestly, I think you should just call your lawyer and be done with it. I don't think it's fixable.

[DKT3]

Listen some posters will try to make this be all about how you wronged your wife. Ignore that.

You have a right to feel how you feel. I honestly don't believe in your situation being upset about the vibrator is out of line. It's no different than the hundreds of women who come here complaining about thier husband's watching porn. When used correctly the can be sexual aids however,  like in you case they are used as a replacement,  that's unacceptable period.

Just recently there was a discussion here about how wrong it is to go outside of your marriage to find something missing,  however,  sometimes you read something and say "wrong, but I get it" I get why you did what you did. Cause honestly,  my wife has one time to tell me she isnt attracted to me,  she wouldn't get a second chance because I would be gone. 

The dating apps..again I get it. I'm amazed how many people can say it's over, I don't want to be married to you then except the marriage vows to mean something to the person being rejected. 

All you have left is understand how your behavior lead to the wreck of a marriage,  work on fixing those flaws and move on. 

Life gets better....it will get worse but eventually better.

[RuckaMuckaSand]

6 hours ago, DKT3 said:

Listen some posters will try to make this be all about how you wronged your wife. Ignore that.

You have a right to feel how you feel. I honestly don't believe in your situation being upset about the vibrator is out of line. It's no different than the hundreds of women who come here complaining about thier husband's watching porn. When used correctly the can be sexual aids however,  like in you case they are used as a replacement,  that's unacceptable period.

Just recently there was a discussion here about how wrong it is to go outside of your marriage to find something missing,  however,  sometimes you read something and say "wrong, but I get it" I get why you did what you did. Cause honestly,  my wife has one time to tell me she isnt attracted to me,  she wouldn't get a second chance because I would be gone. 

The dating apps..again I get it. I'm amazed how many people can say it's over, I don't want to be married to you then except the marriage vows to mean something to the person being rejected. 

All you have left is understand how your behavior lead to the wreck of a marriage,  work on fixing those flaws and move on. 

Life gets better....it will get worse but eventually better.

Thank you for this.  Nearly every reply has been either a bashfest or pointing out how I am in the wrong, which I 1000000% admit I'm wrong.  There's no perspective where I am right.  But your response makes me feel a little better, even though I shouldn't feel that way for the mistakes I made.

Obviously me posting my experience, as does everyone else who has on this site, is just looking for advice or comments.  I posted knowing what kind of response I would get (because I've been getting it from my friends and family, but in a less harsh manner.  Most importantly I wanted an outsider's perspective.  A perspective that one cannot see themselves.  When I was in couples therapy, the therapist said people, especially in times of crisis will have blinders on based on their emotions and they can't see/comprehend past that.  It's important to try and take a step back, if you can, to see all sides of an issue.  

Again thanks for your compassion and you're right.  All I have left is to understand and fix my issues.  In the end, regardless of the outcome and no matter how hard it hurts, will make me better in the long run.

Thanks again.

[RuckaMuckaSand]

I spoke w/ my wife yesterday. Me being banished to a separate room upstairs with no contact isn't improving (or worsening) the general atmosphere.  I felt that despite it all, we have to talk at some point. I was composed and calm, but she was angry and didn't want to talk. What she did say though, is that her plan is to find a realtor, sell the house because we can't live in the same roof anymore and to get a job no matter what it pays so she can support herself (not necessarily in any particular order.) She said she would use the money from the house being sold to buy her own.

Now I'm not a lawyer, but I live in Tennessee and we are not a community property state but both our names are on the title. First and foremost, I would have to agree to sell the home and secondly, any money she uses from our bank account is considered both of ours. What I read online is she can do what she says, but in the event of a divorce, her making this big purchase prior to finalizing would affect her alimony payments.

Anyway, that's where we are and that's her plan. I just want to safeguard myself and work on improving myself, wherever this is headed. I just think I'm screwed in the financial department.

[gamon]

Don't let her push you around. This whole "banished to the bedroom" and "she's going to file for divorce" and "she's going to buy a house with the proceeds from the sale of the marital residence" is her basically owning you.

If I was you I'd move back into the bedroom ASAP. If she wants out she can sleep in the other room.

As far as the financial implications, anything that is joint marital is usually split down the middle but may be subject to equitable distribution if there are other factors at play.

You should seriously consider separating all your finances including pulling half the assets from joint bank accounts and putting into your own account and canceling all joint credit cards.

Get yourself a voice activated recorder and keep it on  you at all times to protect from false allegations of domestic violence. Odds are when she speaks to an attorney she'll be encouraged to play that card to get you out of the house.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RuckaMuckaSand]

She hasn't served me papers yet.  I've been trying to be helpful to my wife, getting her lunch/dinner, putting the blanket on her when she took a nap.  But she's been snippy with me.  I started my first individual therapy session today.  Plan on continuing regardless of what happens.  The only thing I can do at this moment.

[DKT3]

My man, at some point you have to start looking out for yourself.  Your wife has been borderline abusive towards you for some time with all the I'm not in love with you, I'm not attracted to you, I dont want to be married to you.  Only to act out when you show any signs of moving on.  Time to cut the cord and look out for YOU. Stop being nice to her, start detaching.  This is a dysfunctional situation and someone has to jump off the hamster wheel. 

[basil67]

Sounds like your wife is going to play hardball.   Get yourself a lawyer.  

And I agree that you should not accept being locked in a bedroom.  I get that you’re trying to do what you can to calm her down and save the marriage, but she’s clearly done.  Come out, but make sure to stay calm.  Calm but firm about your own rights is where to go from here.  

[RuckaMuckaSand]

50 minutes ago, DKT3 said:

My man, at some point you have to start looking out for yourself.  Your wife has been borderline abusive towards you for some time with all the I'm not in love with you, I'm not attracted to you, I dont want to be married to you.  Only to act out when you show any signs of moving on.  Time to cut the cord and look out for YOU. Stop being nice to her, start detaching.  This is a dysfunctional situation and someone has to jump off the hamster wheel. 

 

11 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Sounds like your wife is going to play hardball.   Get yourself a lawyer.  

And I agree that you should not accept being locked in a bedroom.  I get that you’re trying to do what you can to calm her down and save the marriage, but she’s clearly done.  Come out, but make sure to stay calm.  Calm but firm about your own rights is where to go from here.  

So I've already talked to one the first time she officially called it quits. He gave me advice but any further discussion requires a 3500$ initial retainer fee. I have that money but it's a lot to commit to right now. 

Here's where I am. I talked to a financial advisor and he said that it would be in my best interest to wait. I brought up the fact that since she's a stay at home mom, she makes 0$. Meaning if she stayed jobless, we filed and actually got a divorce, her spousal support/alimony would be considerably higher than if she was working. 

 

Right now, she's hardcore job hunting simply to be able to support herself without my income. She has her Master's Degree so she should be able to get a decent job. Just quick calculation shows it would shave off several hundred dollars a month. Given the current length of our marriage, the lawyer said spousal support is estimated to be a minimum of 2 years to a max of 4. If her getting a job will shave off 500-800$ over 2 to 4 years, it's a lot of money (especially if I'm going to start over financially). It also means the difference of being able to buy a new home vs renting. On top of the spousal support, I'd have to pay child support as well. 

 

I understand I truly f***ed up and I'm owning up to it. But if if I'm to start living on my own and pay spousal support and pay child care, I need to be able to get some sort of help in the financial area. 

 

[gamon]

17 hours ago, RuckaMuckaSand said:

 

According to everything you've posted, the divorce is going to happen, sooner or later. Since she's got her Masters Degree then the courts will typically (but not always) impute income, in other words your support will be based on what she could be earning even if she remains unemployed.

 

[jolehno]

She really has convinced that it is all your fault. If you keep believing her, you will never recover your marriage. Start snooping on her. Nobody with small children, divorces over what you did, period. 

 

[OrbitalKat]

Did your lawyer tell you you need to pay spousal support? When does this law apply? My understanding it happens when the spouse stays home for a long time. If she has a job I don't see why you'd need to pay spousal support. Also, this spousal support thing needs to be cancelled in all states. Everyone should just go to work like your wife intends to do, not wait for money from the exes. Child support is different. But that's another story.

I think there is information missing from your story. She didn't just wake up one day and said she was done with you , not attracted to you etc. You may know what you did over the course of the marriage to get here. Women don't want to have sex if they feel you don't love them. Maybe she felt unloved. But that's too late. 

I'd go hardcore romance, not just buying her lunch. Flowers blah blah... But I think indeed at this point you are done. She was coming around when you went on the dating app, which suggested that you gave up on trying while she was still trying. I think she felt like a fool.

Yeah, don't get angry about the vibrator, it's not smart. I get what a poster said when comparing it with porn and that it's wrong when used while denying you. But I think in this case, she wasn't just denying you just to be mean, there were issues as to why she didn't want  to have sex. I'm not on the side of partners refusing sex, unless it's for the reason of truly having issues with the marriage and trusting your partner. Then sex indeed feels icky, having it with someone you don't like or trust.  

It doesn't matter whose fault it is here. Sometimes it just doesn't work. Figure out your rights. I'm glad that she wants to support herself. That will help you a lot financially, it has to. There are women who find all kinds of excuses not to work and then you'd be good to pay a lot more. 

 

You'll build your finances up again after a few years and you'll find someone else in no time. You're young and you can start again. But learn how to be better next time and find a compatible partner. Don't jump into a serious relationship right away.

[RuckaMuckaSand]

2 hours ago, OrbitalKat said:

Did your lawyer tell you you need to pay spousal support? When does this law apply? My understanding it happens when the spouse stays home for a long time. If she has a job I don't see why you'd need to pay spousal support. Also, this spousal support thing needs to be cancelled in all states. Everyone should just go to work like your wife intends to do, not wait for money from the exes. Child support is different. But that's another story.

I think there is information missing from your story. She didn't just wake up one day and said she was done with you , not attracted to you etc. You may know what you did over the course of the marriage to get here. Women don't want to have sex if they feel you don't love them. Maybe she felt unloved. But that's too late. 

I'd go hardcore romance, not just buying her lunch. Flowers blah blah... But I think indeed at this point you are done. She was coming around when you went on the dating app, which suggested that you gave up on trying while she was still trying. I think she felt like a fool.

Yeah, don't get angry about the vibrator, it's not smart. I get what a poster said when comparing it with porn and that it's wrong when used while denying you. But I think in this case, she wasn't just denying you just to be mean, there were issues as to why she didn't want  to have sex. I'm not on the side of partners refusing sex, unless it's for the reason of truly having issues with the marriage and trusting your partner. Then sex indeed feels icky, having it with someone you don't like or trust.  

It doesn't matter whose fault it is here. Sometimes it just doesn't work. Figure out your rights. I'm glad that she wants to support herself. That will help you a lot financially, it has to. There are women who find all kinds of excuses not to work and then you'd be good to pay a lot more. 

 

You'll build your finances up again after a few years and you'll find someone else in no time. You're young and you can start again. But learn how to be better next time and find a compatible partner. Don't jump into a serious relationship right away.

Both my lawyer and CDFA said I would have to pay spousal support, even if she got a new job.  Not sure if it's like this in every state in the US, but in Tennessee it's referred to as rehabilitative spousal support.  Meaning, she was out of the workforce for 3 years and therefore, I have to pay her an amount to help her get off her feet.  It's estimated to be a maximum of half the length of marriage (currently 8 years) but it can drop down depending on what the judge says.

Everything I posted in my original post outlines what happened.  It was a buildup of (in her own words) emotional abuse that led to this.  All the arguments, fighting, anger problems, threats of divorce, ignoring for days, etc led to her being beatened down over time.  I also mentioned when she wanted to be a stay at home mom, I did not support her up until it was too late (last fall).  Looking back on it, I truly was naive because she would have sex with me after a period of time.  But in her words, it was to "get her off her back", not necessarily for her enjoyment.  I know now, I was a piece of s*** and I've honestly made efforts to try & fix (counseling, etc) but it may have come too little too late.

The dating app thing was a big mistake.  One of the biggest I've made and talking to my therapist and my brother and friends, they all agree I was looking at a Plan B because I didn't have confidence in a Plan A.  Because of that, my marriage is probably over.  Had I not been a fool and focused on what I should have been, I wouldn't have been in this predicament.

I'm not mad about the vibrator thing anymore.  As with everything else, I realized the error in my ways.  It bothered me originally because she purposefully withheld sex from me when we argued.  It would last anywhere from a month or 2 months and it goes back all the way to our first child (almost 7 years ago).  When I asked her for sex, she would say she's not interested.  When we used to argue about the lack of sex, she would say she didn't have the sex drive/low libido.  Come to find out though, she uses the vibrator now every few days.  She even admitted she used to use it in the past for sexual release.  That's why I got angry about the vibrator.  I was being replaced.  But I get it, I was replaced because I was a jerk.  It doesn't bother me any more now though because my marriage is hanging by a thread.  

Thanks for the advice.  It still stings but the only thing I can do is learn from it.  We are practicing "alternating" custody right now.  I had the kids a full day yesterday (I work Monday through Friday).  It made me happy to hear my daughter say it was the best day she's ever had.  But sad at the same time because this is what it's going to be like soon (single parent).

[gaius]

My wife is the most important thing in the world to me. I love her deeply with all my heart. And if I had to go out and fight tooth and nail everyday for us and for us to be together I would. For the next 20, 40, 60 years. As long and as hard as it took to keep her in my bed every night. But at the end of the day there's only so much you can do. The other person needs to want it on some level as well or your efforts are wasted. 

Since your wife seems to be at the point of not wanting it anymore I would take charge and start moving things toward divorce, with the caveat that you do still want her, you're sorry for f-ing up but she can't lock you in a bedroom anymore if you're going to stay together. That you can't bear to be in the same house together without touching her. Remind her that you're a masculine man that can take charge and that you want her. And if she does end up changing her mind, work a lot harder at forging a better relationship with her in the future.

[serial muse]

OP, I feel like I don't really have a clear picture of your marriage over the years - not blaming you, I know you were cramming a lot of backstory into your first post. But I'm wondering what was going on that you were fighting all the time, and what was the impetus for the times when your wife previously suggested counseling? You mentioned that you were fighting a lot, and that she had lost her job and was perhaps feeling lost. But it's still unclear what the fights were actually about. Why did she want you to go to counseling?

The issue with the dating app thing, to me, wouldn't exactly be that you were cheating (debatable, I could see both sides). It's more that you seem to give up pretty quickly. She was apparently asking for years for you to engage, and you just wouldn't until just a few months ago...and then after just a few months of that you felt it was moving too slowly, and you feared being alone, so you signed up for an app to see who else is out there! Seriously, yikes. Looked at in that light, if I were your wife, I'd assume you really just aren't that invested in me. Not that it's a test, just that it may have confirmed something she already feared - that you weren't really willing to roll up your sleeves and figure out how to improve things.

That said, it may be that it's not really solvable at this point. Sometimes the water under the bridge is so deep that it submerges the bridge, you know? There's a lot of history there, it sounds like, and she may just be done at this point, and the dating app isn't necessarily a huge thing in and of itself but a significant final straw.

So I'm glad you're going to individual counseling, because this sounds like something for you to understand better about yourself. Perhaps, because of your parents' marriage, you think that fighting and yelling and shouting about divorce and then brushing it under the rug is enough to air out grievances. Perhaps the idea of actually making concrete changes and seeing slow results just isn't worth it to you. But those are things you should probably explore in therapy, so you can be ready for a new relationship.

Please don't go on a dating app again for a good long while, even if this is it for your marriage. I get that it's scary to contemplate being alone. Been there. But you are not ready to start something new right now, and it wouldn't be fair to a prospective date. Figure out what went wrong first. If that ends up leading to reconciliation someday, great. If not, that's OK too, painful as it is. But you have to spend some time with this, not just beating yourself up about things, but actually trying to understand yourself.

Edited July 29, 2020 by serial muse

[amerikajin]

Your marriage is probably done, but that doesn't mean that some good can't come out of it. View this as an opportunity to grow. Give yourself time to go through the inevitable sadness, guilt, anger, whatever, but try not to stay there. Own your mistakes. But see them as mistakes, not signs that you're a 'bad' person. I'd give yourself a lot of time to process it all before moving back into a serious relationship again - at least a year or two.

[Wiseman2]

Sorry to hear that. If she lawyers up before you do, you'll be blindsided. She's already making a case against you. There's a very good chance she will get the kids, half of everything and you'll end up paying alimony, legal fees, child support and may be removed from the marital home until then. Unfortunately she's got a good case against you.

[pepperbird]

op,

something I think you're misisng here is her perspective.
Threatening divorce, even if you don't really mean it, is very cruel, especially if it was something you did a lot. You feel like you're ready to move forward because you were ready- she wasn't. She still needed to work through that.

At any rate, you're not a bad guy, and you wouldn't the the first person to make that mistake. It does sound like your marriage is over, but who knows? I do think it would be wise for you to continue counselling either way.