How to be more desireable to search better

[Envy123]

9 hours ago, QuietRiot said:

There are not-so-fit people getting together with fit people. In my area, I've seen fitness women....a lot of them Zumba instructors, with men with "dad bods". soft, slight gut, etc. Though, not entirely unappealing, but probably a standard looking upper body...apparently, there's something about them these ladies overlook and make up for in other areas and it's not money or status, it's personality typically.

 

I'm obese and have more interest than when I was thin. But I act confident and respectful towards girls now, when before, I was a creep and a jerkass.

I'm sure girls would generally prefer a chubby guy who makes them feel comfortable to a thin guy with an attitude problem.

[ZA Dater]

23 hours ago, elaine567 said:

But for most it IS the person they are.
Most people, just as Basil says, have multiple sides to their personality, so they can whip out as required, the side that suits the situation.
Fun? I can do fun.
Serious? I can do serious. 
Sexy? I can do sexy. 
Open and honest, I can do open and honest.
Controversial? I can do controversial....
etc. etc. 
Reading the room and/or the person they are with, is needed to guarantee success.
Most do all of this without even thinking much about it.

Working out is not going to work if you are the same self confessed awkward, serious, rigid person you always have  been.
Yes you may get more matches, but unless you work on your social skills they will still turn on their heel after the first date, six pack or no six pack.
The gym is a great place for self absorbed people, it rarely does much for improving sociability.

Well I am the same irrespective whether I am sitting in a meeting or sitting at a lunch. I don't read people very well, never have despite countless reading and countless attempts, the only thing I can read is the way people speak, what they say and how they say it. I can read some body language and I use some body language myself. However, I do all that consciously.

Sure, I try be less serious, I try be more fun, I try be more humorous but by default that's not who I am as a person. I am good at being controversial, good at being outspoken but again those are lemon qualities in my view, mostly neither endears one to anyone.  

Working out is purely for me and no I wouldn't go to a gym even if there were open here again. About the only thing remotely attractive about a gym would be seeing some fit lady to further motivate me to work out more.

Sure I get your point about the above and it yes even I fool like me can see how those things work. Its just a lot easier said than done.

[ZA Dater]

I have been thinking of a realistic goal and I think the only realistic goal I can set would be to go on dates with people I find attractive. Last week I had an opportunity to meet some 25yo's but passed because the whole setting was wrong, they were there to woo two older very successful guys and I don't think I would have fitted in that well in that dynamic.

Had some matches on Bumble but the conversation means I just loose interest after a few days.

 

[ZA Dater]

I have probably found a new approach. Working out more has given me time to clear my mind  a bit and having people I knew fairly well pass away within days of each other has given perspective. If there is a fundamental weakness I have its that I plan so far ahead rather than live for the day to the extent day becomes a plan for the day yet to come.

With this in mind I am going to talk to anyone and everyone I come into contact with, granted thanks to COVID and being locked down that isn't too many people but I need to shift my mind set towards doing that. Maybe if I do that I can find some more confidence.

Waitresses, I would imagine they are good "practice" when it comes to speak to people? 

[Trail Blazer]

On 7/15/2020 at 8:15 PM, ZA Dater said:

Not what I am looking for I am looking what people have tried themselves which has worked for them. I am just trying a few different things at the moment in terms of my outlook and how I see things. Tinder for example has been consigned to the deleted folder, only thing I am on now is Bumble where I get almost no matches but I have determined Tinder doesn't work for me, someone I know is very attractive and she had 4500 matches so honestly I am wasting my time on that app.

"Tried" you ask, as in, what has been people's concerted efforts?  I haven't tried anything per se, above and beyond creating a profile, selecting a few of my better recent shots and posting them up with a minimalist bio.

It's a fine balance between putting in effort and trying too hard.  From my experience, women do read bios, but whether they ultimately help or hinder a man's cause is anyone's guess.

One thing I am certain of, though, which is to say that without a doubt, no woman would bother to read the bio of a guy she didn't first find attractive enough to pique her interest.

Tinder and Bumble is stacked against the odds for most guys.  I matched with plenty of gorgeous women, but most wouldn't reply or unmatched me at will.  It's purely a numbers game, where I waited it out and eventually got lucky.

I really don't think there's a hell of a lot you can do to turn your fortunes around.  Go to the gym, take the best selfies you can and include any photos you may have witj friends (just don't use it as your main photo).  Women like to see some photos that aren't just selfies.

 

[ZA Dater]

I have yet more unpleasant experiences so frankly I think I am just going to focus my attention elsewhere, just live with the fact I am ugly and apparently only attractive to people I find the same.

Anyone reading this, tall and athletic counts for zero at dating.

[Trail Blazer]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I have yet more unpleasant experiences so frankly I think I am just going to focus my attention elsewhere, just live with the fact I am ugly and apparently only attractive to people I find the same.

Anyone reading this, tall and athletic counts for zero at dating.

That's untrue.  How tall are you?  Height is the number one atrractive physical trait for women on many surveys. 

I'm only 5'10" and I've seen many women post their minimum height requirements (most often because they themselves are tall), so I've probably lost a few potential matches due to my height.

[basil67]

3 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I have yet more unpleasant experiences so frankly I think I am just going to focus my attention elsewhere, just live with the fact I am ugly and apparently only attractive to people I find the same.

Anyone reading this, tall and athletic counts for zero at dating.

Yes, tall and athletic is only surface stuff.   It's who a person is which is what really counts.    Have a look around when you're out and you'll see plenty of average height, average looking guys with partners.   

[Weezy1973]

5 hours ago, basil67 said:

  Have a look around when you're out and you'll see plenty of average height, average looking guys with partners.   

That’s me! Except shorter than average. And met my wife online...

[ZA Dater]

10 hours ago, basil67 said:

Yes, tall and athletic is only surface stuff.   It's who a person is which is what really counts.    Have a look around when you're out and you'll see plenty of average height, average looking guys with partners.   

Yeah I am sure that's true and sure I too could date if I just lowered my standards through the floor. I disagree its what the person looks like which counts with OLD, looks get in door, personality prevents you being kicked out the door again.

So no to say looks don't count is not true. I have been on Bumble for 3 years and I have had maybe one vaguely attractive match, friend of mine has been on it for 3 weeks and has more attractive matches than he knows what to do with.

I

[basil67]

Yes, looks can count.  My daughter is on OLD - she doesn't care for height, muscles or facial structure - she cares about "the aesthetic".  She will swoon for a guy who has a man-bun with a piercings and tatts.    That said, she's stretching her criteria to include regular looking guys who are pursuing tertiary education.  If you are into nano technology, she'll give a chance if you've got a good bio.   Sure, she's far too young for you...but it's not just about muscles and height.   

Of course, that she's indie works against her.   Not every man wants a girl who's got tattoos, curly hair and wears second hand clothes with Doc Martins.   And during these times of COVID, there are no live concerts for her to go to where her kind are.   But she's not going to conform to get the kind of guy who she doesn't want.    I guess she's kind of like you.  

Edited August 3, 2020 by basil67

[ZA Dater]

I think the only thing that really does matter is that each day one must try be the best version of oneself possible. That's just about the only thing I can do to be true to who I am. Maybe I just live in an unfriendly city because every time, as in the past I try start conversations with random people I just get brushed off and ignored.

I'd love to simply just transform into what people want but the honest truth is I am not that person, either looks wise or personality wise.  Honest question do people actually bother to look at good attributes are do they just write people off. I spent years trying to find good in people I didn't find attractive have other people done this? Does it get to a point where "well I cant be bother to give anyone who doesn't fit abc criteria a chance"

[Weezy1973]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Honest question do people actually bother to look at good attributes are do they just write people off. I spent years trying to find good in people I didn't find attractive have other people done this? Does it get to a point where "well I cant be bother to give anyone who doesn't fit abc criteria a chance"

Everybody’s different. I’d say in general, people who are looking for something long term, and especially those that want kids, will put a premium on traits that take some time to reveal themselves. Compassion, patience, dependability etc. are not traits that you can assess from a dating profile. As long as there was some minimum level of attraction, they’d be more willing to see if there’s potential even if there wasn’t an immediate “wow”.

Edited August 3, 2020 by Weezy1973

[chillii]

Of course they do , everyone's been trying to tell you over and over. My daughters stunning nearly 20 and an incredible person, she was going out with guy in a wheelchair for awhile because he was such a classic guy . Her bf now is shorter than her and 8yrs older but they get along like a house on fire and he really cares and looks after her they're crazy about each other .

And just on one of weezys points yeah you can actually tell a helluva a lot in what someone has to say on a profile but only a special few , not all , only some know how to speak with their heart, or actually have one or any depth. My fiance only had a bit over one line but what she said in that literally spelt out her person and attitude to love and a relationship.

The guy l bought my new car of has severe social anxiety , when it hits he can't look your way or get a word out. When he dropped off the car he literally ran out of the kitchen to outside halfway through a sentence. He's friend went and got him and he was ok again after that. He's got a lovely wife and kids.   Everyone here give you 100s of stories, but like we keep saying if you don't lighten up , unlock your mind and ideas things will never change

Edited August 3, 2020 by chillii

[basil67]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I think the only thing that really does matter is that each day one must try be the best version of oneself possible. That's just about the only thing I can do to be true to who I am.

I've told you this before, but perhaps you've forgotten.  Being the best version of ourselves frequently involves change.   For me, it was learning to be a better conversationalist and learning when it was appropriate to hold my tongue.   Only those who are perfect (which is nobody) has no room for change and improvement.

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Maybe I just live in an unfriendly city because every time, as in the past I try start conversations with random people I just get brushed off and ignored.

Who are you starting conversations with?  What situations do you choose?

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Honest question do people actually bother to look at good attributes are do they just write people off. I spent years trying to find good in people I didn't find attractive have other people done this? Does it get to a point where "well I cant be bother to give anyone who doesn't fit abc criteria a chance"

Of course.  You frequently talk about how you won't date women who are overweight or single mothers.   You're far from alone in being choosy.

[Trail Blazer]

17 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Yeah I am sure that's true and sure I too could date if I just lowered my standards through the floor. I disagree its what the person looks like which counts with OLD, looks get in door, personality prevents you being kicked out the door again.

So no to say looks don't count is not true. I have been on Bumble for 3 years and I have had maybe one vaguely attractive match, friend of mine has been on it for 3 weeks and has more attractive matches than he knows what to do with.

How choosy are you when you swipe?  Do you only swipe right on people you're certain you fin attractive?  Do you always swipe left on women who have children?

At our age, mid-thirties, at least here in the States, more women than not in my experience have kids by now.  So, chances are, more often than not, the women you encounter on OLD, just as IRL, will have kids.

What's your deal with kids?  There's a lot of hot single moms out there.  I won't disagree that kids aren't ideal if you're not looking for that side of it, but if you're willing to compromise in that aspect, you might find a lot more opportunities to be with attractive women if you give single moms a chance.

As for your buddy - he's presumably an attractive man?  Sure, he'll get a tonne of matches, that's just the nature of the beast. 

Women are picky, but don't beat yourself up about that!  OLD is a different kettle of fish, in that it brings out a different dynamic between men and women.  It's heavily weighted in women choosing because, well, they just have soooo much choice!

[elaine567]

5 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

What's your deal with kids?  There's a lot of hot single moms out there.  I won't disagree that kids aren't ideal if you're not looking for that side of it, but if you're willing to compromise in that aspect, you might find a lot more opportunities to be with attractive women if you give single moms a ch

I do think many single people, do not want to be involved with anyone with kids.
It introduces complications that they can do without The ever present often feuding or demanding ex, the mixed up broken home kids, the logistics of getting together with someone who is always busy with their kids... 
Fair enough if your family of origin is one big kid friendly zone and kids have always been a big part of your life , but I do not get the impression from ZA that kids were always around in his family or that ZA knows or wants to know a lot about kids or indeed wants any one else's kids in his life. 
Not everyone wants to be a step-parent and even if they do, the journey can be a tough one and not everyone is cut out for the role and the ride.
Little point in getting involved with a single mum if he has no intention of taking on her kids.

[elaine567]

12 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I think the only thing that really does matter is that each day one must try be the best version of oneself possible.

Does one?
Sounds like a lot of pressure.
How about taking your foot off the gas and relaxing a bit.

[ZA Dater]

10 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Everybody’s different. I’d say in general, people who are looking for something long term, and especially those that want kids, will put a premium on traits that take some time to reveal themselves. Compassion, patience, dependability etc. are not traits that you can assess from a dating profile. As long as there was some minimum level of attraction, they’d be more willing to see if there’s potential even if there wasn’t an immediate “wow”.

I have never ever found this to be the case. I cannot over emphasize that enough. For me around 5 years ago I took stock of where I was in dating and didn't really like where I was so I made the decision to do things differently. sure I got some help along the way and I dress better now, walk with more confidence, interact better, am less shy some of the time, less awkward most of the time.

There are frankly limits as to how far one can go. I am roundly criticised sometimes for being negative when it comes to dating but its easy to say when the person saying it can get dates and not only that with people he finds attractive. My point is desirability is so subjective that its very difficult to actually know what it in fact is and how to define it.

When I walk past someone on the street and greet them, you cannot believe the looks of disgust I get, for a simply gesture of being polite. People here keep advocating this but all I can suggest is perhaps this works better in other parts of the world....

 

[ZA Dater]

6 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

How choosy are you when you swipe?  Do you only swipe right on people you're certain you fin attractive?  Do you always swipe left on women who have children?

At our age, mid-thirties, at least here in the States, more women than not in my experience have kids by now.  So, chances are, more often than not, the women you encounter on OLD, just as IRL, will have kids.

What's your deal with kids?  There's a lot of hot single moms out there.  I won't disagree that kids aren't ideal if you're not looking for that side of it, but if you're willing to compromise in that aspect, you might find a lot more opportunities to be with attractive women if you give single moms a chance.

As for your buddy - he's presumably an attractive man?  Sure, he'll get a tonne of matches, that's just the nature of the beast. 

Women are picky, but don't beat yourself up about that!  OLD is a different kettle of fish, in that it brings out a different dynamic between men and women.  It's heavily weighted in women choosing because, well, they just have soooo much choice!

Here is my deal with kids, Elaine has answered some of it and I do apologize if I offend anyone. Quite simply every single mother I have been on a date with has major issues usually revolving around the father of the kid, they have further emotional issues relating to divorce, one I met up with ended up getting divorced because the father got jealous of the kid. More often than not the father is not in the picture at all, provides no support and even more off putting for me is the desperation that many of these ladies I met up with exhibit. Also I have never met an attractive to me single mom.

The ones that don't have kids, well I mean I cant compete with my friend, its frankly impossible so I look at the matches he gets, ladies who passed over me and it becomes clear to me at some point one might not even bother.

The bold is absolutely true and unfortunately that leave a lot of guys like me up the creek with no canoe and no paddle. There is only so much someone can do.

How choosy am I? That's a good question. I'd say fairly but not unreasonably.

 

[ZA Dater]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

Does one?
Sounds like a lot of pressure.
How about taking your foot off the gas and relaxing a bit.

Its just how I live, everyday brings some new work related complexity some new challenge to overcome so new problem to solve usually more task than I have time for in a day so each day is about going onto the field and trying to hit home runs or not being struck out. This brings about the intensity I have but it also provides a sort of refuge from the fact I am basically alone.  I don't really do relaxing because there is always something going on, in my mind the more challenges I set myself the better because I need to be better to accomplish those challenges and to take them on to begin with. The severe downside is in the dating context people don't relate to this at all.

If I had to date I would look at it like a partnership, I would want to spent time with the person I would want to let them into my world and I would want to be able to bring some value to their life as I think they would to mine. The problem is a complete incompatibility here or an apparent one. Let me try explain why. So I go on a date with an someone, she asks what I do, I explain with my usual obvious intensity, I then ask them what they do and barring a few occasions people aren't enthusiastic about what they do! Work for me is not perfect, its high stress, often high stakes but I enjoy that. I need someone who buys into my way of thinking of the way I approach things and that's is virtually impossible as the last 15 odd years have taught me.

Then I meet the yoga instructor, she brings something very different, a complete different outlook to life and I quite liked that because it was different, I had to think a bit, re assess so for me this is something attractive about different but there is nothing attractive about people who approach day to day with a mundane point of view. You can do the simplest job but if you approach it with enthusiasm for it does tell me a lot.

So we get past this and then we talk about things we love in life, things we enjoy and once again 9/10t times there is zero enthusiasm at ALL. At the point I loose interest completely and then just try get something out of the date. Added to which hardly ever do I get the sense these people are interested in me.  Ultimately I just want someone rounded enough, attractive enough, intelligent enough, ambitious enough to spend time with and someone who brings something different.

 

[Trail Blazer]

5 hours ago, elaine567 said:

I do think many single people, do not want to be involved with anyone with kids.
It introduces complications that they can do without The ever present often feuding or demanding ex, the mixed up broken home kids, the logistics of getting together with someone who is always busy with their kids... 
Fair enough if your family of origin is one big kid friendly zone and kids have always been a big part of your life , but I do not get the impression from ZA that kids were always around in his family or that ZA knows or wants to know a lot about kids or indeed wants any one else's kids in his life. 
Not everyone wants to be a step-parent and even if they do, the journey can be a tough one and not everyone is cut out for the role and the ride.
Little point in getting involved with a single mum if he has no intention of taking on her kids.

Don't worry, I'm only too aware of the complications of being with single moms.  I wouldn't recommend it. 

I was just thinking that in the case of ZA Dater, if he's unprepared to compromise on looks, then an attractive single mother might be the way to go.  It will open up opportunities to be with many new women.  It will just require compromise in a different kind of way.

[Trail Blazer]

4 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Here is my deal with kids, Elaine has answered some of it and I do apologize if I offend anyone. Quite simply every single mother I have been on a date with has major issues usually revolving around the father of the kid, they have further emotional issues relating to divorce, one I met up with ended up getting divorced because the father got jealous of the kid. More often than not the father is not in the picture at all, provides no support and even more off putting for me is the desperation that many of these ladies I met up with exhibit. Also I have never met an attractive to me single mom.

The ones that don't have kids, well I mean I cant compete with my friend, its frankly impossible so I look at the matches he gets, ladies who passed over me and it becomes clear to me at some point one might not even bother.

The bold is absolutely true and unfortunately that leave a lot of guys like me up the creek with no canoe and no paddle. There is only so much someone can do.

How choosy am I? That's a good question. I'd say fairly but not unreasonably.

 

To be honest, I would not recommend single moms.  I've been with too many and it can be messy.  You'll always play second fiddle, too.  I've got kids, I'm used to kids and I quite like them.  They aren't for everyone, though.

As for your general struggles on OLD - I've said it before and I'll say it again; if it's not working for you, I think you should just get off it for a little while. 

I refuse to believe that you are destined to be unsuccessful with dating.  However, right now, I don't think bein on OLD right now is doing you any good at all.  Things in the dating world usually happen when you're trying the least.

[Wiseman2]

Good job.

Your own decent place.

Good grooming, decent clothes.

Sense of humor.

Ability to relate to others.

No glaring bad habits. Drugs, excessive drinking, gambling or on video games all day.

Ability to get outside of your head and connect to what others are saying, thinking, feeling.

Positive attitude. No victim mentality, hypochondriac, or other types of self absorbed thinking or behavior.

[Weezy1973]

7 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

  Ultimately I just want someone rounded enough, attractive enough, intelligent enough, ambitious enough to spend time with and someone who brings something different.

You’re not well rounded, as you don’t have any social circle, nor have you ever had a relationship. You check the boxes of attractive enough, intelligent enough and ambitious enough. If you’re asking for someone who brings something “different”, you have to acknowledge that different is rare and therefore will be harder to find. So you’re reducing your chances of finding someone.