How to be more desireable to search better

[ZA Dater]

21 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

First, you’re barely going on any dates. And second, the dates you are going on, by your own admission carry no risk. They’re either with women you have no interest in with zero chance of growing attraction, or else they’re with women that have better options and would never end up being interested in you. Where’s the risk? 

Every women I find attractive has options. Or would you suppose I go out with people who have few options? Attraction does not grow in my opinion, its either there or it is not. The people I found the most attractive were ones I could engage well with and found physically attractive. Or as happened once I engage well but don't find the person physically attractive.

Your "risk" comment has made me think though, what do you consider to be risk? I understand the idea of going on lots of dates but realistically is it not a waste of time if there is no attraction and no compatibility. The reason I say that is I have done that before, quite often actually, the vast majority of the dates I have been on have fallen into that category, they never become any more attractive really and when I sit there I start to ask myself why I am doing this, I then try and say ok well I am not into this person but lets still take an interest in them. IF I could find dates with people who do interest me I believe your idea is a good one, really good in fact but due to my own beliefs and choices I have effectively eliminated 95% of the dating pool and the add to that the hefty levels of competition.

Again I look at an older friend of mine, I look at his charm, his personality, his outgoing fun nature and sure he also struggles at dating but he gets dates with people who interest him, sure he too has some bad ones but by and large at least he is going out with people he finds attractive. Yes, I get it some people will have a connection but I also like to think most guys go out with people they find attractive? Or am I wrong?

I get it, go out and improve, smile more, try be more outgoing, laugh more, try be more relaxed, add some humour. All those things are logical human traits and I do try those things however I just think it comes off as fake some of the time. Another belief I have is that I need some selling trait, something that actually would want to make someone take a chance on me versus running after Chad but I have no idea what that could be.

Perhaps one thing I can do fairly well is put myself in the shoes of others, I do like helping people, I do like listening to ideas other people have, I do like listening to life stories, my life is not an easy one but on the other hand I have seen the best and worst of it, sometimes in the same day!

Here is a question, have you ever had someone express interest in you and you actually liked the person too? That's really what I am chasing. Instead what I end up doing is trying to sell and win people over and quite clearly that does not work, for me at least. In my mind the biggest problem is even pre covid I don't go out enough, I mean what am I going to do, sit in a bar on my own, sit in a restaurant on my own, if I am going to go on my own I'll do a drive somewhere, enjoy the scenery and roads. Do you think your interests really determine how datable you are?

A good example of something I wanted to try once, friend and I were having a business strategy meeting one Sat evening at a burger place and there were two ladies all dressed up, both attractive, I thought about sending drinks over to the table. But I asked myself and then what? I don't have the confidence to pull that off nor any sort of plan.

[Weezy1973]

26 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Attraction does not grow in my opinion, its either there or it is not.

That’s because you haven’t ever been on a second date. You’ve never been in a situation to let it grow. Many people have had attraction, and you’re insistence on immediate attraction limits your options. 

 

28 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Your "risk" comment has made me think though, what do you consider to be risk?

In your case you’re potentially falling in love and becoming attached to someone and risking that person ends up not liking you back or dumping you or cheating on you or ridiculing you for your lack of sexual experience. That’s the risk you’re unwilling to take.

Continuing to frame your world so you’ll never have the option of a meaningful relationship avoids that risk.

[ZA Dater]

22 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

That’s because you haven’t ever been on a second date. You’ve never been in a situation to let it grow. Many people have had attraction, and you’re insistence on immediate attraction limits your options. 

 

In your case you’re potentially falling in love and becoming attached to someone and risking that person ends up not liking you back or dumping you or cheating on you or ridiculing you for your lack of sexual experience. That’s the risk you’re unwilling to take.

Continuing to frame your world so you’ll never have the option of a meaningful relationship avoids that risk.

Sure but again why do I need to have second dates with people who I didn't enjoy spending time with? It would be a different matter if I enjoyed spending with them but I would have found them attractive.

I guess it depends on how you define love and define what makes you happy. I can categorically say that most dating doesn't make me happy, BUT there have been some amazing dates and people I really did enjoy spending time with but those are  few and far between. I know why I enjoyed those dates, I know why I found those people attractive but its so difficult to find people with those attributes.

What makes me smile, taking my supercharged muscle car for a spin, they are not common here and its my escape. My passions make me happy but dating just doesn't. But I keep doing it because the good dates really have been great. For example K and I work on various projects, it comfortable friend zone arrangement and I wont lie it does make me happy. It gives me a good idea of the good types of dates I wish I could have without the actual complications of dating. The bonus is I can open up and I don't get frowned at and she actually take an interest in me like a friend does, again rare for me. I always greet and make small talk with the guys who sell newspapers, look after cars and interesting thing is they are surprised someone takes time to ask how they are, many people don't ever greet them. My point is this when it comes to dating people don't take any interest in me, most of the time I wonder why they even bothered because when you sit through a 2 hour date and the person asks you nothing I do wonder.

I still maintain dating has to be a two way street, I cant convince someone to like me. I suppose ladies have the reverse, too much attention from many guys just looking for sex.

[Weezy1973]

So confirmed that you’ve decided not to take any risk. Fear can really stunt one’s life and ultimately happiness. If you were genuinely happy with your muscle cars and friend zones, you would never post here.

[Azincourt]

On 9/4/2020 at 8:57 PM, ZA Dater said:

Quote

Every women I find attractive has options. Or would you suppose I go out with people who have few options? Attraction does not grow in my opinion, its either there or it is not. The people I found the most attractive were ones I could engage well with and found physically attractive. Or as happened once I engage well but don't find the person physically attractive.

What do you mean by every woman you find attractive has options?

Are you talking about subjective attraction(her mannerisms, the way she talks, the way she treats other people, how she sees the world etc) make her out to be attractive in your eyes, or are you talking about objective attraction?

Someone like Sara Sampaio or Georgina Rodriguez?

Astoundingly beautiful, young women, who are married to men who are as physically attractive as they are?

Because if you are talking about women who are physically attractive, then yes, they are going to either be paired up with boyfriends or husbands who match them in looks, or they're going to have a lot of men around them to pick up from the pool of men who are interested in dating them.

Attraction does grow with time. My maternal grandfather was an ugly man, and he wasn't built like a Patriots lineback, no, and yet despite being simply a car mechanic all of his life, he still managed to have one-night stands and relationships with many beautiful women(dude kept journals around with his conquests).  Because he was charming, masculine, and he wasn't afraid of rejection. And yes, he was rejected thousands of times nonetheless.

The same principle is applied onto women. I dated a woman back in college who was very pretty, but she was as flat my surfboard, and I like women like Kim Kardashian, but over time, after getting to know her and spending a lot of time with her, my physical attraction to her grew quite a bit and we ended up dating. I'm sure there were women who weren't thrilled with my looks from the get-go but after deeply interacting with me, grew to find me to be physically attractive.

Why not give a chance to a woman you don't find to be physically attractive, as in, get to know her better. You never know what might happen. 

 

On 9/4/2020 at 8:57 PM, ZA Dater said:

 

 

Your "risk" comment has made me think though, what do you consider to be risk? I understand the idea of going on lots of dates but realistically is it not a waste of time if there is no attraction and no compatibility. The reason I say that is I have done that before, quite often actually, the vast majority of the dates I have been on have fallen into that category, they never become any more attractive really and when I sit there I start to ask myself why I am doing this, I then try and say ok well I am not into this person but lets still take an interest in them. IF I could find dates with people who do interest me I believe your idea is a good one, really good in fact but due to my own beliefs and choices I have effectively eliminated 95% of the dating pool and the add to that the hefty levels of competition.

What are you looking for in a woman? Describe her to us, from her age, socio-economical background, physical appearance, political views and party, down to the way she dresses, and what she is looking for in men, in a potential boyfriend, a husband, etc etc.

 

 

On 9/4/2020 at 8:57 PM, ZA Dater said:

Again I look at an older friend of mine, I look at his charm, his personality, his outgoing fun nature and sure he also struggles at dating but he gets dates with people who interest him, sure he too has some bad ones but by and large at least he is going out with people he finds attractive. Yes, I get it some people will have a connection but I also like to think most guys go out with people they find attractive? Or am I wrong?

Then develop a charming personality?

Was Arnold Scharwznagger born from his mother's womb looking like Conan The Barbarian? 

Do actors go from never-acting-before-in-their-lives to 5+ Oscar winning The Godfather performances?

It takes time to get where we want to get to. Work on your personality. Interact with women. I'm charming and funny and I'm a joy to be around. But I didn't get here by sitting on my computer chair like many young men do these days and play video games all day long. What I did was, as soon I was hit by puberty like a truck, I went out there and started chatting up every girl and every woman that crossed my path.  I became a bartender because a position like this enabled me to come across hundreds, thousands of very attractive young women per night. Tens of thousands upon tens of thousands of women such as these ones, per month.

I crafted and honed my approach to women. How I present myself. How women see me. How women perceive me to be like. I was rejected by tens of thousands of women and that never really phased me, I just understood that to be a part of life. Even the greatest man of all time, Giacomo Girolamo Casanova was rejected more times than I was, and yet he still went on to go down in history as one of the most admired men in recorded History.

Don't be afraid of stumbling down, bro. Learn from your friends, from the men you know of who are successful with women. Ask them to take you under their wing. Ask them to introduce you to the women you want to be surrounded by. When I was 18 I befriended a Giorgio Armani catwalk model. He got me around gorgeous women and it soon dawned on me that these women are just like any other women. They have their own insecurities, their own dramas going on in their lives, and their own awful dating experiences. I understood that there is no reason to be intimidated by gorgeous women and that's why  my success rate is better than the rate of a guy who simply doesn't try to get these women to sleep with them.

Yeah, I might be rejected 1000 times in a row, but I'm going home with a Victoria's Secret model on my 1001th try.  Worth it.

 

 

On 9/4/2020 at 8:57 PM, ZA Dater said:

I get it, go out and improve, smile more, try be more outgoing, laugh more, try be more relaxed, add some humour. All those things are logical human traits and I do try those things however I just think it comes off as fake some of the time. Another belief I have is that I need some selling trait, something that actually would want to make someone take a chance on me versus running after Chad but I have no idea what that could be.

If you aren't feeling it, yeah, it's gonna come out as fake, but that takes time and effort. It's not just a question of days, weeks, months. It's years of honing your craft to improve yourself. 

What is ''Chad''?

is Chad a physically attractive man?

Does that mean you're pursuing women who are more attractive than you ?

 Are you ignoring women who are interested in you because they aren't physically remarkable?

On 9/4/2020 at 8:57 PM, ZA Dater said:

Perhaps one thing I can do fairly well is put myself in the shoes of others, I do like helping people, I do like listening to ideas other people have, I do like listening to life stories, my life is not an easy one but on the other hand I have seen the best and worst of it, sometimes in the same day!

Here is a question, have you ever had someone express interest in you and you actually liked the person too?

 

Yeah, plenty of times have I experienced the women I was interested in being interested in me back. Not because I'm some ''Chad'' I don't even get what that is about man, but because I meet a lot of women in my life. Tens of thousands of women a month due to my line of work, and then the hundreds and the thousands of women I've approached in my life, in my day-to-day life. No what do I mean by approaching?

I mean making small-talk in the right time in the right circumstances(I'm at the grocery store and I don't know how to make x dish and I ask someone who seems to know what she's about) and from there, I gauge her interest in me. Does she have a wedding ring?

Does she make small, quick talk so that I get off her back? Does she check me out? is she staring at my lips,  are her eyes going up and down my face and body and then she looks back into my eyes with a smile?

Does she play with her hair while staring at me, does she touch her neck while laughing and giggling at the silly things I'm telling her?

If so, I give her my phone number, so she doesn't feel pressure, and then I tell her to give me a call if she'd like to catch a drink with me. Those who are interested in me and are single, will do it, those who aren't interested in me or are interested but are in a relationship won't give me a call(but they might introduce me to their friends who are single).

I've also successful approached women inside a bus/subway/train etc but that was because the women were giving me the Green Light down by the Dock(The Great Gatsby) to approach them, and if the women who were doing this were attractive to me, I would do it.

I have been rejected many, many times. There are Countries in the world that have less citizens living in them than the times I've been rejected by women. I just don't care about rejection and don't let it affect me.

 

On 9/4/2020 at 8:57 PM, ZA Dater said:

 

That's really what I am chasing. Instead what I end up doing is trying to sell and win people over and quite clearly that does not work, for me at least. In my mind the biggest problem is even pre covid I don't go out enough, I mean what am I going to do, sit in a bar on my own, sit in a restaurant on my own, if I am going to go on my own I'll do a drive somewhere, enjoy the scenery and roads. Do you think your interests really determine how datable you are?

A good example of something I wanted to try once, friend and I were having a business strategy meeting one Sat evening at a burger place and there were two ladies all dressed up, both attractive, I thought about sending drinks over to the table. But I asked myself and then what? I don't have the confidence to pull that off nor any sort of plan.

Yes, that's why your'e failing. You're not meeting enough women. The more women you meet, the higher the chances are of you finding a woman you are attracted who is also attracted to, and also the chances of her wanting to date you increase quite a bit, if you meet a LOT of women.

Yes, your interests determinate how datable you are and by what kind of women you are.

I love salsa. Samba. I love sports. I love latino music. So I tend to hang out in places filled with women who also love all of this stuff.

[ZA Dater]

6 hours ago, Azincourt said:

What do you mean by every woman you find attractive has options?

Are you talking about subjective attraction(her mannerisms, the way she talks, the way she treats other people, how she sees the world etc) make her out to be attractive in your eyes, or are you talking about objective attraction?

Someone like Sara Sampaio or Georgina Rodriguez?

Astoundingly beautiful, young women, who are married to men who are as physically attractive as they are?

Because if you are talking about women who are physically attractive, then yes, they are going to either be paired up with boyfriends or husbands who match them in looks, or they're going to have a lot of men around them to pick up from the pool of men who are interested in dating them.

Attraction does grow with time. My maternal grandfather was an ugly man, and he wasn't built like a Patriots lineback, no, and yet despite being simply a car mechanic all of his life, he still managed to have one-night stands and relationships with many beautiful women(dude kept journals around with his conquests).  Because he was charming, masculine, and he wasn't afraid of rejection. And yes, he was rejected thousands of times nonetheless.

The same principle is applied onto women. I dated a woman back in college who was very pretty, but she was as flat my surfboard, and I like women like Kim Kardashian, but over time, after getting to know her and spending a lot of time with her, my physical attraction to her grew quite a bit and we ended up dating. I'm sure there were women who weren't thrilled with my looks from the get-go but after deeply interacting with me, grew to find me to be physically attractive.

Why not give a chance to a woman you don't find to be physically attractive, as in, get to know her better. You never know what might happen. 

 

What are you looking for in a woman? Describe her to us, from her age, socio-economical background, physical appearance, political views and party, down to the way she dresses, and what she is looking for in men, in a potential boyfriend, a husband, etc etc.

 

 

Then develop a charming personality?

Was Arnold Scharwznagger born from his mother's womb looking like Conan The Barbarian? 

Do actors go from never-acting-before-in-their-lives to 5+ Oscar winning The Godfather performances?

It takes time to get where we want to get to. Work on your personality. Interact with women. I'm charming and funny and I'm a joy to be around. But I didn't get here by sitting on my computer chair like many young men do these days and play video games all day long. What I did was, as soon I was hit by puberty like a truck, I went out there and started chatting up every girl and every woman that crossed my path.  I became a bartender because a position like this enabled me to come across hundreds, thousands of very attractive young women per night. Tens of thousands upon tens of thousands of women such as these ones, per month.

I crafted and honed my approach to women. How I present myself. How women see me. How women perceive me to be like. I was rejected by tens of thousands of women and that never really phased me, I just understood that to be a part of life. Even the greatest man of all time, Giacomo Girolamo Casanova was rejected more times than I was, and yet he still went on to go down in history as one of the most admired men in recorded History.

Don't be afraid of stumbling down, bro. Learn from your friends, from the men you know of who are successful with women. Ask them to take you under their wing. Ask them to introduce you to the women you want to be surrounded by. When I was 18 I befriended a Giorgio Armani catwalk model. He got me around gorgeous women and it soon dawned on me that these women are just like any other women. They have their own insecurities, their own dramas going on in their lives, and their own awful dating experiences. I understood that there is no reason to be intimidated by gorgeous women and that's why  my success rate is better than the rate of a guy who simply doesn't try to get these women to sleep with them.

Yeah, I might be rejected 1000 times in a row, but I'm going home with a Victoria's Secret model on my 1001th try.  Worth it.

 

 

If you aren't feeling it, yeah, it's gonna come out as fake, but that takes time and effort. It's not just a question of days, weeks, months. It's years of honing your craft to improve yourself. 

What is ''Chad''?

is Chad a physically attractive man?

Does that mean you're pursuing women who are more attractive than you ?

 Are you ignoring women who are interested in you because they aren't physically remarkable?

Yeah, plenty of times have I experienced the women I was interested in being interested in me back. Not because I'm some ''Chad'' I don't even get what that is about man, but because I meet a lot of women in my life. Tens of thousands of women a month due to my line of work, and then the hundreds and the thousands of women I've approached in my life, in my day-to-day life. No what do I mean by approaching?

I mean making small-talk in the right time in the right circumstances(I'm at the grocery store and I don't know how to make x dish and I ask someone who seems to know what she's about) and from there, I gauge her interest in me. Does she have a wedding ring?

Does she make small, quick talk so that I get off her back? Does she check me out? is she staring at my lips,  are her eyes going up and down my face and body and then she looks back into my eyes with a smile?

Does she play with her hair while staring at me, does she touch her neck while laughing and giggling at the silly things I'm telling her?

If so, I give her my phone number, so she doesn't feel pressure, and then I tell her to give me a call if she'd like to catch a drink with me. Those who are interested in me and are single, will do it, those who aren't interested in me or are interested but are in a relationship won't give me a call(but they might introduce me to their friends who are single).

I've also successful approached women inside a bus/subway/train etc but that was because the women were giving me the Green Light down by the Dock(The Great Gatsby) to approach them, and if the women who were doing this were attractive to me, I would do it.

I have been rejected many, many times. There are Countries in the world that have less citizens living in them than the times I've been rejected by women. I just don't care about rejection and don't let it affect me.

 

Yes, that's why your'e failing. You're not meeting enough women. The more women you meet, the higher the chances are of you finding a woman you are attracted who is also attracted to, and also the chances of her wanting to date you increase quite a bit, if you meet a LOT of women.

Yes, your interests determinate how datable you are and by what kind of women you are.

I love salsa. Samba. I love sports. I love latino music. So I tend to hang out in places filled with women who also love all of this stuff.

For me attraction is overall. Its not really defined by one thing, yes I like a pretty face, yes I like a well spoken person, yes I like an ambitious person, yes I like a well rounded person among other things. What would be the point of dating someone I don't find physically attractive? Why should I go out of my way to get to know her when attractive women never extend the same to me? What you need to understand is I wasn't always this bitter and cynical but I looked around me, looked at the dates I was going on and I realised that effectively I was getting nothing  I enjoyed from these experiences, most of them anyway.

What I am looking for, someone well rounded, warm personality, good background, attractive to me, ambitious, well spoken, able to have a conversation, diverse interests and 25-32  A really impossible list to be honest. I don't know what women look for.

Sure it takes time but honestly at 36 the options I have aren't at all appealing, never mind investing 10 years to supposedly get better at this, my options will be even worse then. I have already tried for 20 years to get just more than one date with someone I like and that's never worked. Its often said ultimate success depends on belief that it is possible, frankly simply I believe the only way I could get this to work is to drop my standards so far and if I did that sure I'd find a date but what would the point in that be? Id just be dating someone who is frankly unsuitable and not attractive to me.

Sure strategy was apparently the right one, well done. I think most guys would love those opportunities but I realised that some get it right and many don't, we cant all be so extroverted. Your idea about chatting to people in public has merit, except you try finding a date on a South African train, google is your friend on this one.

You read people, I cant be bothered to be honest because its never conclusive. I have had dates who touch their ears, play with their hair and nothing comes of it. In most cases thankfully so. People don't laugh at most things I say, as I say I am the guy who gets things done, entertainment is on my list of qualities, I had to find something I was vaguely good at so while I can talk politics and serious topics I don't do the light hearted ones. Successful daters have this charm, I have seen it many times and tried to compete sometimes but its pointless.

My interests are not conducive to dating at all, sure I get to go to fancy wineries, great restaurants, sometimes great hotels, ultimately I am not taking someone to these events where she will encounter some CEO or successful person and she cant hold a decent conversation. I go on my own and I don't have this risk. In most respects I am just looking for a unicorn. I did get tricked to going to a strip club once, the VIP section no less and while I didn't like the experience, I can understand why people do, here is someone stunning making a fuss over me, giving me lots of attention and I guess that's nice if you don't see how fake it is.  Beyond OLD I don't have anywhere to meet women. Nowhere at all. I tried the random chat on the street but most don't even bother to greet back and one look at them tells me they wont be single. That's the point I never encounter single people.

I once had a Tinder date with what turned out to a Hungarian stripper. You know what she took an interest in me and asked questions and was warm and nice. I couldn't care what she does for a living but she was a nice person. I also ended up inadvertently on a date with a call girl, again Tinder and again I found her much more interesting than most dates I had been on, she could have a conversation about pretty much anything and again it was an ok date. I have been out with a variety of people but the truth is I don't know how to date so even if I found someone and there was mutual attraction it would not work because I have no experience.

I'd like to share things with someone, I do care but for me dating is just about me getting kicked in the teeth and moving on to the next underwhelming experience accompanied by the next kick in the teeth. I will admit over time I am becoming more jaded and closed off because the experiences are just so not what I am looking for. Case in point I have nice event in Oct, going on my own because I have nobody suitable to take. This used to irritate me but it doesn't because I just book two rooms and bring a lady friend with me who helps with the event. That way I have a "date" of sorts for dinners, lunches and breakfasts.

I hate to say this but I am leaning toward the fact what I really want is best bought.

 

 

[ZA Dater]

21 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

So confirmed that you’ve decided not to take any risk. Fear can really stunt one’s life and ultimately happiness. If you were genuinely happy with your muscle cars and friend zones, you would never post here.

Fear. Please, I'd take the risk if there is any sort of reward and someone unattractive to me is not much of a reward. In fact its a complete waste of time for everyone.

[elaine567]

38 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I believe the only way I could get this to work is to drop my standards so far and if I did that sure I'd find a date

I am  not sure if you would even then, as your mindset is now so off.
"Unattractive" women still want to be entertained, still want to laugh and have fun, still want to feel like the most important person in the room.
Your disdain and contempt for these women will shine like a beacon, you don't do "fake".

[Azincourt]

40 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

For me attraction is overall. Its not really defined by one thing, yes I like a pretty face, yes I like a well spoken person, yes I like an ambitious person, yes I like a well rounded person among other things. What would be the point of dating someone I don't find physically attractive? Why should I go out of my way to get to know her when attractive women never extend the same to me? What you need to understand is I wasn't always this bitter and cynical but I looked around me, looked at the dates I was going on and I realised that effectively I was getting nothing  I enjoyed from these experiences, most of them anyway.

Yeah, but don't you feel that women are the same way?

If an attractive woman looks at your face, or at your hairline or whatever else, and she doesn't like what she sees - why would she feel obliged to give you a chance, when you yourself have just admitted to not give a woman a chance, to find out if the two of you can create a strong, beautiful emotional bond t ogether, because she doesn't have a pretty face?

You do realize that most women don't have a pretty face? You're already diminishing your dating pool if you need a woman to have a face like say, Natalie Portman, before you consider even talking to her, let alone going on a date with her.

If attractive women don't pursue you, if attractive women, and if attractive women don't give you any indication of being sexually or romantically interested in you: doesn't that make you wonder that maybe you're going for women who are out of your league?

Wouldn't you be more successful with women if you were to date the women who are part of your league, who share the same level of physical looks that you have?

I'm confused about this. Do you believe average-looking people are only with average-looking people because hot women and hot men don't want them for one reason or another?

Do you believe most people are dating people they aren't attracted to? Because for a man to have sex,  unless he's 18 years old, he kinda has to feel physical attraction for the woman he's in a romantic relationship with, and for a woman to have sex and for it to not be painful she also has to find the guy to be attractive(and most women do find their average-looking partners to be physically attractive).

Or are you only interested in hot women because your friends have hot women and youd' feel out of place going to parties with an average-looking woman?

 

40 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

What I am looking for, someone well rounded, warm personality, good background, attractive to me, ambitious, well spoken, able to have a conversation, diverse interests and 25-32  A really impossible list to be honest. I don't know what women look for.

It's not really impossible.

If you are 40 years old, or close to it, then it would be more profitable to search for women who are 35-40 at the youngest, because younger women want a man their own age or relatively older, say a few years. There are men who can pull this off, say a guy who had a baby face when he was 18-25 and he aged well, never drank alcohol,  applies skin-care products to his face, and wears protective headgear whenever he's out, under the sun, and eats right, doesn't consume sugar, doesn't smoke etc, but most middle-aged men can't pull off dating women who are much younger than them, no, especially when those women are physically attractive on top of being young. 

Those women have a much wider pool of eligible bachelors from which to choose from.

A woman who is well-rounded ,  with a warm personality, good background - and by that I'm guessing an expensive college - and all the rest you've just mentioned is going to be seeking for a life-mate who displays the same interests, the same goals in life, the same hobbies, and is from the same background, and also has a personality that is similr to her own.

What you seek for in a woman is not impossible but you're going to have to work for it, because those women can get pretty much any man they want, and there's millions of men who'd take those women up the Church's steps.

Women like the women you just talked about want men who are charming, kind ,  charismatic, extroverted, take good care of themselves, have a similar level of looks, and are from the same socio-economical background that they themselves belong to. And the more you put yourself out there, the more women you meet, and I'm taking about hundreds of women, thousands of women, even tens of thousands of women - the higher your chances are of meeting such a woman.

 

40 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Sure it takes time but honestly at 36 the options I have aren't at all appealing, never mind investing 10 years to supposedly get better at this, my options will be even worse then. I have already tried for 20 years to get just more than one date with someone I like and that's never worked. Its often said ultimate success depends on belief that it is possible, frankly simply I believe the only way I could get this to work is to drop my standards so far and if I did that sure I'd find a date but what would the point in that be? Id just be dating someone who is frankly unsuitable and not attractive to me.

Then adapt your desires  and adapt what you're looking for accordingly to what you can get in your current situation?

If I'm looking to date  blonde, blue-eyed women, I go to Germany or to any other Germanic Country. I don't head out to Pakistan and then complain to the locals about not being able to find a 19 year old 6 feet tall 150lbs Germanic woman to date me, catching my drift?

Ever considered enrolling in those dating agencies that make their bread getting men a date?

40 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

Sure strategy was apparently the right one, well done. I think most guys would love those opportunities but I realised that some get it right and many don't, we cant all be so extroverted. Your idea about chatting to people in public has merit, except you try finding a date on a South African train, google is your friend on this one.

Sure we can all be extroverted. If you want something hard enough, you work for it. You don't become a bodybuilder by sitting at home all day watching TV. In the same vein, you don't get physically attractive women with a bubbly personality by sitting at a dark corner and then brooding because those women won't approach you, while you watch the men who actually want those women go up to them and hit on them, risking rejection.

There's nothing wrong with being rejected. I've been rejected literally tens of thousands of times, and every time I just shrugged it off, grounded my teeth, and went back into the battlefield.  Put yourself in a situation(not now, covid19 and all) where you have to interact with huge numbers of men and women. Over time you'll come out of your shell, and you'll develop a talkative, interactive, extroverted personality.

 

40 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

You read people, I cant be bothered to be honest because its never conclusive. I have had dates who touch their ears, play with their hair and nothing comes of it. In most cases thankfully so. People don't laugh at most things I say, as I say I am the guy who gets things done, entertainment is on my list of qualities, I had to find something I was vaguely good at so while I can talk politics and serious topics I don't do the light hearted ones. Successful daters have this charm, I have seen it many times and tried to compete sometimes but its pointless.

But if you can't be bothered to do anything, if you can't be bothered to approach women, if you can't be bothered to give women who aren't hot a chance because they aren't hot and you are seemingly only interested in women who are hot - how do you expect to get what you want out of life?

What  do you mean thankfully so?

Do you mean those women who were interested in you revealed themselves later on to be a bad match for you because of a terrible personality, of something wrong they did in their past, or was it a case of the women who wanted to sleep with you/date you didn't match the expectations you have for the type of woman you want to date?

Most men aren't charming. Most men can't talk to women like George Clooney can, and they still do fine with women. Women - including attractive women - aren't expecting a guy to be suave like Craig Daniel's James Bond version. They chill, and they want a chill guy. A guy who doesn't have expectations of how the date is going to turn out like, a guy who is chill in that, he doesn't feel entitled to sex, and a guy who doesn't feel like he deserves attention from women just because he's alive and has a job.

Every man can be like that. It's easy. Just go out there and don't take life seriously because we're all getting out of it dead anyway, so don't make a big deal out of every little thing. 

You sure you're not observing what men who are well-above average are doing with women who are well-above average and then feeling disappointed because you can't do the same?

Don't compare yourself to other men,  dude. I've met Cristiano Ronaldo in person before, and when I was there shaking his hand and playing a few balls with him I wasn't thinking to myself, ''wow this guy is built like a greek god, and wow, he's the best player in the entire world, '' I just smiled and chilled and enjoyed the experience. Do that onto yourself. Don't put so much pressure onto yourself, man, because if you do you will fail at what you want.

 

40 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

My interests are not conducive to dating at all, sure I get to go to fancy wineries, great restaurants, sometimes great hotels, ultimately I am not taking someone to these events where she will encounter some CEO or successful person and she cant hold a decent conversation. I go on my own and I don't have this risk. In most respects I am just looking for a unicorn. I did get tricked to going to a strip club once, the VIP section no less and while I didn't like the experience, I can understand why people do, here is someone stunning making a fuss over me, giving me lots of attention and I guess that's nice if you don't see how fake it is.  Beyond OLD I don't have anywhere to meet women. Nowhere at all. I tried the random chat on the street but most don't even bother to greet back and one look at them tells me they wont be single. That's the point I never encounter single people.

Ah. So you're interested in women who can date men who make millions of dollars a year after taxes?

Wouldn't a woman like that then only be interested in a man who can provide a certain lifestyle, and if you can't do that, why don't you consider dating middle-class and working class(no, I'm not taking about prostitutes) women instead? There's lots of very charming ,very attractive women to be found working retail, or working as waiters, or working at hooters etc.

I dunno, man. I'm working class and I've dated a Victoria's Secret model, and not because I'm gorgeous - I'm not. Just an average-looking guy for my enviroment, but because I never pretended to be rich, I got to date her because I was the only guy who approached her at that party as all the other dudes were intimidated by her looks, and I got to keep on dating her because I never expected anything out of it. This woman is gorgeous, and she wants to be seen holding my hands. Bro,  only way life could've gotten better was if I was to inherit the throne of Saudi Arabia or the throne of England. 

I got lucky because I was chill about it from the start down to the finish line.

 

40 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

I once had a Tinder date with what turned out to a Hungarian stripper. You know what she took an interest in me and asked questions and was warm and nice. I couldn't care what she does for a living but she was a nice person. I also ended up inadvertently on a date with a call girl, again Tinder and again I found her much more interesting than most dates I had been on, she could have a conversation about pretty much anything and again it was an ok date. I have been out with a variety of people but the truth is I don't know how to date so even if I found someone and there was mutual attraction it would not work because I have no experience.

I'd like to share things with someone, I do care but for me dating is just about me getting kicked in the teeth and moving on to the next underwhelming experience accompanied by the next kick in the teeth. I will admit over time I am becoming more jaded and closed off because the experiences are just so not what I am looking for. Case in point I have nice event in Oct, going on my own because I have nobody suitable to take. This used to irritate me but it doesn't because I just book two rooms and bring a lady friend with me who helps with the event. That way I have a "date" of sorts for dinners, lunches and breakfasts.

I hate to say this but I am leaning toward the fact what I really want is best bought.

 

 

What do you mean you don't know how to date?

You go on a date.

You ask people about their lives. Their interests. Their jobs. Their family. Their goals. Their objectives in life. Their dreams. You talk about yourself too, you share details your life, the things you like, the things you want to change about it. You talk about stuff you think is funny that happened to you years ago.

You show interest in them, not like ''I want to sleep with you right now tonight'' interest but interest in getting to know them, deeply, as a person, as a human being. Then you ask them out on a date again, and if they say so you keep what I've just told you going on, eventually the moment will show itself to either have her make a move on you, or the opportunity to kiss her etc comes up, and you take it from there.

I've been rejected tens of thousands of times by tens of thousands of women, man. I've gone months and months without getting a date, let alone sex. I've gone years without a girlfriend. I've been more thirsty than a dying man in the sahara desert, and yet I didn't let that demolish my self-esteem or my self-worth because I don't base my self-worth and my worth as a man from women. I base it on how good of a son I am.

And I'm the best son there is out there in the world.

But sure, if you feel like you can't get what you want via organically, then sure go ahead, buy it or rent it.   I'm not judging you, and neither is anyone else.

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

Fear. Please, I'd take the risk if there is any sort of reward and someone unattractive to me is not much of a reward. In fact its a complete waste of time for everyone.

You’re not understanding what I’m saying. 
 

You’ve created a world where your only possibilities are dating a woman you’re not attracted to, or dating a woman that has better options. I’m not saying this is a conscious choice on your part. But it literally makes it impossible for your to succeed. 
 

[ZA Dater]

23 hours ago, Azincourt said:

Yeah, but don't you feel that women are the same way?

If an attractive woman looks at your face, or at your hairline or whatever else, and she doesn't like what she sees - why would she feel obliged to give you a chance, when you yourself have just admitted to not give a woman a chance, to find out if the two of you can create a strong, beautiful emotional bond t ogether, because she doesn't have a pretty face?

You do realize that most women don't have a pretty face? You're already diminishing your dating pool if you need a woman to have a face like say, Natalie Portman, before you consider even talking to her, let alone going on a date with her.

If attractive women don't pursue you, if attractive women, and if attractive women don't give you any indication of being sexually or romantically interested in you: doesn't that make you wonder that maybe you're going for women who are out of your league?

Wouldn't you be more successful with women if you were to date the women who are part of your league, who share the same level of physical looks that you have?

 

Wouldn't a woman like that then only be interested in a man who can provide a certain lifestyle, and if you can't do that, why don't you consider dating middle-class and working class(no, I'm not taking about prostitutes) women instead? There's lots of very charming ,very attractive women to be found working retail, or working as waiters, or working at hooters etc.

I dunno, man. I'm working class and I've dated a Victoria's Secret model, and not because I'm gorgeous - I'm not. Just an average-looking guy for my enviroment, but because I never pretended to be rich, I got to date her because I was the only guy who approached her at that party as all the other dudes were intimidated by her looks, and I got to keep on dating her because I never expected anything out of it. This woman is gorgeous, and she wants to be seen holding my hands. Bro,  only way life could've gotten better was if I was to inherit the throne of Saudi Arabia or the throne of England. 

I got lucky because I was chill about it from the start down to the finish line.

 

What do you mean you don't know how to date?

You go on a date.

You ask people about their lives. Their interests. Their jobs. Their family. Their goals. Their objectives in life. Their dreams. You talk about yourself too, you share details your life, the things you like, the things you want to change about it. You talk about stuff you think is funny that happened to you years ago.

You show interest in them, not like ''I want to sleep with you right now tonight'' interest but interest in getting to know them, deeply, as a person, as a human being. Then you ask them out on a date again, and if they say so you keep what I've just told you going on, eventually the moment will show itself to either have her make a move on you, or the opportunity to kiss her etc comes up, and you take it from there.

I've been rejected tens of thousands of times by tens of thousands of women, man. I've gone months and months without getting a date, let alone sex. I've gone years without a girlfriend. I've been more thirsty than a dying man in the sahara desert, and yet I didn't let that demolish my self-esteem or my self-worth because I don't base my self-worth and my worth as a man from women. I base it on how good of a son I am.

And I'm the best son there is out there in the world.

But sure, if you feel like you can't get what you want via organically, then sure go ahead, buy it or rent it.   I'm not judging you, and neither is anyone else.

There is a lot of sense in what you say. I don't believe in leagues much the same way I don't believe people are stuck in certain work circumstances. The people who find me attractive are wholly unattractive to me because they offer nothing I want, just like I offer nothing the people I find attractive want. I did however think I had enough good qualities to maybe just have a modicum of success.

I do believe a fair amount of people settle and divorce statistics seem to support my belief. Likewise I believe a lot of people go to bars and clubs because everyone else does, people don't question: why. Its easier to follow than question. I question and I almost always never follow. 35-40 is a pointless age range for me because then kids come as part of the package and I very rarely have met anyone with kids who doesn't come with  747 worth of baggage.  I must be one of those guys because most people think I am 25 not 36.

Sure adapt to what I can get, I don't want what I can get, there is no appeal at all. Tinder has made it very clear to me the sort of people who find me attractive and I am not even going to waste my time meeting them because it the same old. I am tall and slim, is it too much to expect the same? I am educated, it is too much to expect the same, I am well spoken, it is too much to expect the same? Seemingly yes. Anyone who doesn't meet those requirements is not worth even meeting. In the past I have wasted my time and never been pleasantly surprised.

I'll never be able to meet many women because I am just not interested in bars, clubs, music festivals and trance parties so I am pretty much resigned to OLD being my only option. Sure I try to greet people I meet in public but none bother to greet back so after an extended time doing that I cant be bothered. Another poster here will tell you I am talking rubbish about this.

What do I expect to get of dating, frankly nothing because its never given me anything, I don't see why I need to humour people I don't find attractive when the same is never extended to me, frankly I have been thrown away enough times. I just look at what I want and the impossibility of that then I look the so called non organic ways of getting this to work and I frankly wonder why anyone bothers to subject themselves to the monumental amount of BS inherent in dating. Morally I cant go that route but the fact remains it circumvents most of the nonsense.

The people who find me interesting are non starters from the outset. Or they simply wanted to use for something, usually expertise or a morally supportive shoulder to hear all about how terrible their BF's are. I must be quite good at being that supportive person.

My life is a serious one, I have always been serious even when I was young.

Funnily enough dates don't make me nervous at all, most of the time I couldn't care less because the person sitting in front of me is rarely someone I have any real interest in and when they are interesting they are really interesting but I always know I might as well enjoy the date because there wont be a second one. So no, I don't feel pressure with dates, there are much more stressful things on any given day than a date.

You need to view the world through my rose tinted glasses, like you I have spent time with the supposedly "top tier", the very attractive ladies, the guys who can date 20 years younger than they are and like me you know that when you come up against that the result is going to go one way, MAYBE it might go another way if you have a stellar personality and an uncanny sense of humour but the good guy seldom wins. What I am good at, I can talk on a variety of serious topic and I have a good general knowledge, in the right setting this can work for me and I can give the "more appealing" guys a real run for their money but its not me the attractive ladies leave with, its the fun largely apathetic guys. Again my rose tinted glasses, which is a good phrase because most dates cant relate to the phrase at all.

Yes, you feel an enormous level of confidence if you do go out with the incredibly attractive lady, I conspired to do this twice, both were not dates but I did land up spending some time with them and yes once you have that everything else is very mundane. That's my point when you have experienced something  like that, the 39yo with two kids working 3 jobs isn't quite the same. If I had to pick the dating experiences I want to have it would be that. For example I met an incredibly intelligent lady last year, had a great date, she rocked up looking like Eva Green but it was her ability to converse which impressed me the most, she was a great overall person. Of course the date went nowhere and I had 5 other unattractive matches that followed.

I can do chill, in fact I probably do that better than anything, unemotional and chilled I can do very well because I have do it most working day, if I let things get to me I would never not make much progress. I just don't much humour or fun.

Sure I agree I don't base me worth on the opinion of women either but the fact is I haven't had any relationship, I haven't even had three dates with the same person and I have never had mutual attraction, walk around with that and see how it feels. Which is why I choose to be cynical because truths are to me better than great sounding lies and realities better than fairy tales. However it does hurt, really it does. Every time I think I have a chance it turns to sht. All I can do is go back to greeting people but my mind suggests that miss tall athletic isn't single so why bother. See everything I evaluate and consider.

I'll keep looking and hoping.

 

[ZA Dater]

23 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

You’re not understanding what I’m saying. 
 

You’ve created a world where your only possibilities are dating a woman you’re not attracted to, or dating a woman that has better options. I’m not saying this is a conscious choice on your part. But it literally makes it impossible for your to succeed. 
 

What other possibilities do I have. Photoshop pictures get me decent matches who fall over themselves, I could never look like that so that's pretty much pointless but it has given me an idea of what women on Tinder seem to want. I am not seeing any other possibilities to be honest. Its not like people at coffee shops are exceedingly friendly, its not like I am meeting any when my friend and go driving, unless you consider waitresses when we stop for coffee but again that pretty pointless.

I am not meeting people doing property deals or M&A deals. Around me all people are interested in are music festivals, trance parties, bars, none of which interest me. SO to me the possibility seems remote. Gym, again not the place to meet people, a personal trainer, probably a bad idea. Meet ups, very contrived in the extreme.

I get what you are saying but there is nowhere to find these people or nowhere I have reasonable chance of success. It just feels like there are so many deal killers with me I shouldn't even bother trying when there are better alternatives out there.

[Weezy1973]

4 minutes ago, ZA Dater said:

It just feels like there are so many deal killers with me I shouldn't even bother trying when there are better alternatives out there.

Which is the ending sentiment of all your epic threads. So you stop trying to date. And then feel lonely and go on a date where you’re not compatible with the woman. And then come back on here to complain and the cycle begins again...

There’s no indication from any of your posts that you want to get off the treadmill. 

[Content]

On 9/6/2020 at 3:01 PM, Azincourt said:

Yeah, but don't you feel that women are the same way?

If an attractive woman looks at your face, or at your hairline or whatever else, and she doesn't like what she sees - why would she feel obliged to give you a chance, when you yourself have just admitted to not give a woman a chance, to find out if the two of you can create a strong, beautiful emotional bond t ogether, because she doesn't have a pretty face?

You do realize that most women don't have a pretty face? You're already diminishing your dating pool if you need a woman to have a face like say, Natalie Portman, before you consider even talking to her, let alone going on a date with her.

If attractive women don't pursue you, if attractive women, and if attractive women don't give you any indication of being sexually or romantically interested in you: doesn't that make you wonder that maybe you're going for women who are out of your league?

Wouldn't you be more successful with women if you were to date the women who are part of your league, who share the same level of physical looks that you have?

I'm confused about this. Do you believe average-looking people are only with average-looking people because hot women and hot men don't want them for one reason or another?

Do you believe most people are dating people they aren't attracted to? Because for a man to have sex,  unless he's 18 years old, he kinda has to feel physical attraction for the woman he's in a romantic relationship with, and for a woman to have sex and for it to not be painful she also has to find the guy to be attractive(and most women do find their average-looking partners to be physically attractive).

Or are you only interested in hot women because your friends have hot women and youd' feel out of place going to parties with an average-looking woman?

 

It's not really impossible.

If you are 40 years old, or close to it, then it would be more profitable to search for women who are 35-40 at the youngest, because younger women want a man their own age or relatively older, say a few years. There are men who can pull this off, say a guy who had a baby face when he was 18-25 and he aged well, never drank alcohol,  applies skin-care products to his face, and wears protective headgear whenever he's out, under the sun, and eats right, doesn't consume sugar, doesn't smoke etc, but most middle-aged men can't pull off dating women who are much younger than them, no, especially when those women are physically attractive on top of being young. 

Those women have a much wider pool of eligible bachelors from which to choose from.

A woman who is well-rounded ,  with a warm personality, good background - and by that I'm guessing an expensive college - and all the rest you've just mentioned is going to be seeking for a life-mate who displays the same interests, the same goals in life, the same hobbies, and is from the same background, and also has a personality that is similr to her own.

What you seek for in a woman is not impossible but you're going to have to work for it, because those women can get pretty much any man they want, and there's millions of men who'd take those women up the Church's steps.

Women like the women you just talked about want men who are charming, kind ,  charismatic, extroverted, take good care of themselves, have a similar level of looks, and are from the same socio-economical background that they themselves belong to. And the more you put yourself out there, the more women you meet, and I'm taking about hundreds of women, thousands of women, even tens of thousands of women - the higher your chances are of meeting such a woman.

 

Then adapt your desires  and adapt what you're looking for accordingly to what you can get in your current situation?

If I'm looking to date  blonde, blue-eyed women, I go to Germany or to any other Germanic Country. I don't head out to Pakistan and then complain to the locals about not being able to find a 19 year old 6 feet tall 150lbs Germanic woman to date me, catching my drift?

Ever considered enrolling in those dating agencies that make their bread getting men a date?

Sure we can all be extroverted. If you want something hard enough, you work for it. You don't become a bodybuilder by sitting at home all day watching TV. In the same vein, you don't get physically attractive women with a bubbly personality by sitting at a dark corner and then brooding because those women won't approach you, while you watch the men who actually want those women go up to them and hit on them, risking rejection.

There's nothing wrong with being rejected. I've been rejected literally tens of thousands of times, and every time I just shrugged it off, grounded my teeth, and went back into the battlefield.  Put yourself in a situation(not now, covid19 and all) where you have to interact with huge numbers of men and women. Over time you'll come out of your shell, and you'll develop a talkative, interactive, extroverted personality.

 

But if you can't be bothered to do anything, if you can't be bothered to approach women, if you can't be bothered to give women who aren't hot a chance because they aren't hot and you are seemingly only interested in women who are hot - how do you expect to get what you want out of life?

What  do you mean thankfully so?

Do you mean those women who were interested in you revealed themselves later on to be a bad match for you because of a terrible personality, of something wrong they did in their past, or was it a case of the women who wanted to sleep with you/date you didn't match the expectations you have for the type of woman you want to date?

Most men aren't charming. Most men can't talk to women like George Clooney can, and they still do fine with women. Women - including attractive women - aren't expecting a guy to be suave like Craig Daniel's James Bond version. They chill, and they want a chill guy. A guy who doesn't have expectations of how the date is going to turn out like, a guy who is chill in that, he doesn't feel entitled to sex, and a guy who doesn't feel like he deserves attention from women just because he's alive and has a job.

Every man can be like that. It's easy. Just go out there and don't take life seriously because we're all getting out of it dead anyway, so don't make a big deal out of every little thing. 

You sure you're not observing what men who are well-above average are doing with women who are well-above average and then feeling disappointed because you can't do the same?

Don't compare yourself to other men,  dude. I've met Cristiano Ronaldo in person before, and when I was there shaking his hand and playing a few balls with him I wasn't thinking to myself, ''wow this guy is built like a greek god, and wow, he's the best player in the entire world, '' I just smiled and chilled and enjoyed the experience. Do that onto yourself. Don't put so much pressure onto yourself, man, because if you do you will fail at what you want.

 

Ah. So you're interested in women who can date men who make millions of dollars a year after taxes?

Wouldn't a woman like that then only be interested in a man who can provide a certain lifestyle, and if you can't do that, why don't you consider dating middle-class and working class(no, I'm not taking about prostitutes) women instead? There's lots of very charming ,very attractive women to be found working retail, or working as waiters, or working at hooters etc.

I dunno, man. I'm working class and I've dated a Victoria's Secret model, and not because I'm gorgeous - I'm not. Just an average-looking guy for my enviroment, but because I never pretended to be rich, I got to date her because I was the only guy who approached her at that party as all the other dudes were intimidated by her looks, and I got to keep on dating her because I never expected anything out of it. This woman is gorgeous, and she wants to be seen holding my hands. Bro,  only way life could've gotten better was if I was to inherit the throne of Saudi Arabia or the throne of England. 

I got lucky because I was chill about it from the start down to the finish line.

 

What do you mean you don't know how to date?

You go on a date.

You ask people about their lives. Their interests. Their jobs. Their family. Their goals. Their objectives in life. Their dreams. You talk about yourself too, you share details your life, the things you like, the things you want to change about it. You talk about stuff you think is funny that happened to you years ago.

You show interest in them, not like ''I want to sleep with you right now tonight'' interest but interest in getting to know them, deeply, as a person, as a human being. Then you ask them out on a date again, and if they say so you keep what I've just told you going on, eventually the moment will show itself to either have her make a move on you, or the opportunity to kiss her etc comes up, and you take it from there.

I've been rejected tens of thousands of times by tens of thousands of women, man. I've gone months and months without getting a date, let alone sex. I've gone years without a girlfriend. I've been more thirsty than a dying man in the sahara desert, and yet I didn't let that demolish my self-esteem or my self-worth because I don't base my self-worth and my worth as a man from women. I base it on how good of a son I am.

And I'm the best son there is out there in the world.

But sure, if you feel like you can't get what you want via organically, then sure go ahead, buy it or rent it.   I'm not judging you, and neither is anyone else.

The only part I don’t agree with is that it’s all about looks  matching and going after women in your league.

theres been women into me who were way more attractive then me and unattractive women who weren’t into me.

i don’t think attraction is as simple as staying in your league physical attraction wise.

But obviously he needs to work on himself first and get right mentally and I’m mindset which is his biggest problem.

Edited September 7, 2020 by Content

[CaliforniaGirl]

On 9/6/2020 at 10:52 AM, ZA Dater said:

For me attraction is overall. Its not really defined by one thing, yes I like a pretty face, yes I like a well spoken person, yes I like an ambitious person, yes I like a well rounded person among other things. What would be the point of dating someone I don't find physically attractive? Why should I go out of my way to get to know her when attractive women never extend the same to me? What you need to understand is I wasn't always this bitter and cynical but I looked around me, looked at the dates I was going on and I realised that effectively I was getting nothing  I enjoyed from these experiences, most of them anyway.

What I am looking for, someone well rounded, warm personality, good background, attractive to me, ambitious, well spoken, able to have a conversation, diverse interests and 25-32  A really impossible list to be honest. I don't know what women look for.

Sure it takes time but honestly at 36 the options I have aren't at all appealing, never mind investing 10 years to supposedly get better at this, my options will be even worse then. I have already tried for 20 years to get just more than one date with someone I like and that's never worked. Its often said ultimate success depends on belief that it is possible, frankly simply I believe the only way I could get this to work is to drop my standards so far and if I did that sure I'd find a date but what would the point in that be? Id just be dating someone who is frankly unsuitable and not attractive to me.

Sure strategy was apparently the right one, well done. I think most guys would love those opportunities but I realised that some get it right and many don't, we cant all be so extroverted. Your idea about chatting to people in public has merit, except you try finding a date on a South African train, google is your friend on this one.

You read people, I cant be bothered to be honest because its never conclusive. I have had dates who touch their ears, play with their hair and nothing comes of it. In most cases thankfully so. People don't laugh at most things I say, as I say I am the guy who gets things done, entertainment is on my list of qualities, I had to find something I was vaguely good at so while I can talk politics and serious topics I don't do the light hearted ones. Successful daters have this charm, I have seen it many times and tried to compete sometimes but its pointless.

My interests are not conducive to dating at all, sure I get to go to fancy wineries, great restaurants, sometimes great hotels, ultimately I am not taking someone to these events where she will encounter some CEO or successful person and she cant hold a decent conversation. I go on my own and I don't have this risk. In most respects I am just looking for a unicorn. I did get tricked to going to a strip club once, the VIP section no less and while I didn't like the experience, I can understand why people do, here is someone stunning making a fuss over me, giving me lots of attention and I guess that's nice if you don't see how fake it is.  Beyond OLD I don't have anywhere to meet women. Nowhere at all. I tried the random chat on the street but most don't even bother to greet back and one look at them tells me they wont be single. That's the point I never encounter single people.

I once had a Tinder date with what turned out to a Hungarian stripper. You know what she took an interest in me and asked questions and was warm and nice. I couldn't care what she does for a living but she was a nice person. I also ended up inadvertently on a date with a call girl, again Tinder and again I found her much more interesting than most dates I had been on, she could have a conversation about pretty much anything and again it was an ok date. I have been out with a variety of people but the truth is I don't know how to date so even if I found someone and there was mutual attraction it would not work because I have no experience.

I'd like to share things with someone, I do care but for me dating is just about me getting kicked in the teeth and moving on to the next underwhelming experience accompanied by the next kick in the teeth. I will admit over time I am becoming more jaded and closed off because the experiences are just so not what I am looking for. Case in point I have nice event in Oct, going on my own because I have nobody suitable to take. This used to irritate me but it doesn't because I just book two rooms and bring a lady friend with me who helps with the event. That way I have a "date" of sorts for dinners, lunches and breakfasts.

I hate to say this but I am leaning toward the fact what I really want is best bought.

 

 

The women you're trying to date want someone warm and well-spoken, too.

 

[Azincourt]

33 minutes ago, Content said:

The only part I don’t agree with is that it’s all about looks  matching and going after women in your league.

theres been women into me who were way more attractive then me and unattractive women who weren’t into me.

i don’t think attraction is as simple as staying in your league physical attraction wise.

But obviously he needs to work on himself first and get right mentally and I’m mindset which is his biggest problem.

For a relationship to be balanced, for a relationship to have a chance to work out,  people need to feel safe. Insecurity and paranoia will lead to the dissolution of the relationship.

If I get to date say, Selena Gomez, I would be thrilled at the start of the relationship but eventually I would grow to become insecure about it. Because she's surrounded by men who have 400 million dollars in the bank at the of 24, and because men who are far more attractive than me wanting to date her.

Someone who is similar to me, someone whose physical looks are closer to my own, now with that woman I'm not going to be wondering why she is with me, whereas with someone like Gomez I'd worry all the time.

Men have a much better dating life when they don't go chasing after the same women everyone is chasing.  Who doesn't want a hot woman? Who doesn't want to be seen with a hot woman?  But a guy needs to figure out if he can afford her, either with his own looks, his charm, his sense of humor, the effort and work it will take to get her to date him and to have her continue to do so, and then make a decision of either ''settling'' for someone in his league and enjoy a sense of comfort and security, or he can date a woman who is much more attractive than him and then complicate his life.

[CaliforniaGirl]

On 9/6/2020 at 11:38 AM, elaine567 said:

I am  not sure if you would even then, as your mindset is now so off.
"Unattractive" women still want to be entertained, still want to laugh and have fun, still want to feel like the most important person in the room.
Your disdain and contempt for these women will shine like a beacon, you don't do "fake".

It sounds to me (from this and many many other threads) that ZA, when he does go out, goes with women he deems lesser, expects them to be grateful for dry conversation and no flirting or interest in who they are, it shows, and they go home and block him. Not a weird reaction at all. "Why don't I ever get second dates..." Because who wants to be treated so unenthusiastically even once, much less twice?

Edited September 8, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[Content]

41 minutes ago, Azincourt said:

For a relationship to be balanced, for a relationship to have a chance to work out,  people need to feel safe. Insecurity and paranoia will lead to the dissolution of the relationship.

If I get to date say, Selena Gomez, I would be thrilled at the start of the relationship but eventually I would grow to become insecure about it. Because she's surrounded by men who have 400 million dollars in the bank at the of 24, and because men who are far more attractive than me wanting to date her.

Someone who is similar to me, someone whose physical looks are closer to my own, now with that woman I'm not going to be wondering why she is with me, whereas with someone like Gomez I'd worry all the time.

Men have a much better dating life when they don't go chasing after the same women everyone is chasing.  Who doesn't want a hot woman? Who doesn't want to be seen with a hot woman?  But a guy needs to figure out if he can afford her, either with his own looks, his charm, his sense of humor, the effort and work it will take to get her to date him and to have her continue to do so, and then make a decision of either ''settling'' for someone in his league and enjoy a sense of comfort and security, or he can date a woman who is much more attractive than him and then complicate his life.

You were talking before about getting  Victoria secret models because of your confidence now you’re saying you’d be insecure about being with someone better looking then you lol.

Youre putting too much value onto someone’s looks as if that’s the end all be all of a persons worth.

a person better looking then you might be with you because they click with you more then anyone else. They might find you more charming and have a better personality then better looking guys they’ve dated.
 

should they be with someone more attractive they have less chemistry with just because their looks match? That’s foolish.

 

Also I’m not talking extremes there’s very few 1’s and very few 10’s walking  around my only point is people shouldn’t go   thinking I’m a 4 she’s a 6 so she’s too good for me.

 

Im as average as it gets and the women  I’ve dated  weren’t models but cute attractive  women I hate using numbers but to paint a picture probably solid 8’s while I’m a 5.

 

in your world I should have never even approached these women because they’re superior to me.

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Content

[SumGuy]

5 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Which is the ending sentiment of all your epic threads. So you stop trying to date. And then feel lonely and go on a date where you’re not compatible with the woman. And then come back on here to complain and the cycle begins again...

There’s no indication from any of your posts that you want to get off the treadmill. 

...sic mundus creatus est...

[Moves Like Jagger]

Try some other apps. Tinder is for good looking people to hook up with each other. The problem I see is that you need to make more adjustments. The only guys that succeed with Tinder are young, tall, athletic, white guys. There are other apps out there.  

I disagree with a lot of yours posts. However, I believe that women actually have more options compared to guys that are similar in looks. A few days ago, I saw this tall. young guy get rejected by a couple of girls at the sidewalk. At bars and night clubs, I see girls get approached by guys all the time. I also see young, athletic guys play the numbers game and endure a bunch of rejections before they find a girl that is interested. For a lot of guys, dating is like a part-time job. I don't think it's a good idea for a regular guy to use Tinder to date young, athletic women when those type of women have a lot of options.   

I think that a lot of guys struggle in dating because they don't realize how many more options women have compared to men. Young, women that are fit get treated by models. While, young athletic guys have to play the numbers again. ZA Dater, you got to choose to go all in online dating by changing your photos or you got to focus on cold approach. Going the social circle route won't work if you're too quiet.   

Another thing I see is that you focused too much on the process of dating instead of the actions. While you start threads about how difficult dating is, other guys are focused on taking good pictures or flirting with women. Focusing too much on  the process will make you too depressed to make adjustments. 

[Trail Blazer]

12 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I just don't much humour or fun.

That's a shame.  Most women don't enjoy being around guys who aren't fun.  

[Azincourt]

Quote

It sounds to me (from this and many many other threads) that ZA, when he does go out, goes with women he deems lesser, expects them to be grateful for dry conversation and no flirting or interest in who they are, it shows, and they go home and block him. Not a weird reaction at all. "Why don't I ever get second dates..." Because who wants to be treated so unenthusiastically even once, much less twice?

Quote

 

Well, ZA is an introverted. Growing up he didn't have much contact with women. He didn't get to develop a personality that is conductive to successful dating because the way his personality is, things didn't turn out that way.

You can't blame the guy for failing to get a second date. But what he needs is not online advice from random people. He should hire a dating coach, talk to the guy about his problems, and then work with him to fix his dating issues bit by bit.

Quote

You were talking before about getting  Victoria secret models because of your confidence now you’re saying you’d be insecure about being with someone better looking then you lol.

The reason why she dated me was because she was lonely. Most men feel too intimidated by women who are far more attractive than they themselves and because of that they'd rather approach average-looking women because they feel they have a better chance, and they do. I approached her because I thought to myself, hey, if  at least I'll get a few applauses from my mates because I had the fortitude to approach someone they would never approach, either because they were outclassed, or they were in happy relationships, or they were in her class but were gay etc.

Plus, I was pretty jacked up back then. 230lbs at 6% body fat,  and I was young. Now I'm in my 30s, and I'm sporting a Leo Messi body build type. I'm not sure, but the body I had back then might have helped me out a bit getting her.

Besides, it's not just men who lower their standards when they've gone a long while without sex.

Quote

a person better looking then you might be with you because they click with you more then anyone else. They might find you more charming and have a better personality then better looking guys they’ve dated.

Quote

 

Yes, I've had that happen, but take into account my approach to dating. I'm not looking for a wife. I'm not looking for a domestic partner. I'm not looking for a long-term relationship. I'm looking to enjoy the little youth I have left, and that means short-term relationships that last 2 or 3 months, and one-night stands. Women who are looking for something short term are going to be looking less at qualities that make a man a good boyfriend, and will pay more attention to qualities that make him a good friends with benefits.

Besides the fact that being charming and having a better personality than better looking guys still involves work.  Talking to someone for hours a day, going out with them and doing activities that I'm not a fan of, pretending to care about them and about what they're talking about. It all evolves skill, patience, effort, and time.

Cristiano Ronaldo on the other hand has women throwing their phone numbers into his  hotel bedroom and he's nearly 100% guarenteed of coming out of the encounter satisfied.

One of the things that I abhor about dating is that when she figures out I have the qualities she is looking for, she expects me to meet her family and friends, and then I'm supposed to interact with them, put up with them and their problems and personal drama, and I don' t want that at all.

Quote

Im as average as it gets and the women  I’ve dated  weren’t models but cute attractive  women I hate using numbers but to paint a picture probably solid 8’s while I’m a 5.

Yes, I'm an average-looking man myself, in my enviroment,  so what got me through the door was mostly my ability to pretend to care about someone long enough for them to want to have sex with me, and it was almost mostly foreign college women who wanted to have fun with the ''locals''. 

But there's a bit of a difference between a woman who is nothing special for her dating enviroment, and then a woman who is a 10 out of 10. OP, is a 5. And he lacks experience with women in his own league, and the women he's going for are 8s and 9s and 10s. Obviously he's going to fail miserably when he doesn't bring anything to the table.

[Azincourt]

Quote

Try some other apps. Tinder is for good looking people to hook up with each other. The problem I see is that you need to make more adjustments. The only guys that succeed with Tinder are young, tall, athletic, white guys. There are other apps out there.  

Nonsense. Tinder is good for everyone. I have friends of mine who look like skeletor and they get matches per week often with attractive young women. I have friends who are unconventionally attractive, and I have friends who are average-looking, and I have friends who are unattractive, and they all do fine with tinder and with tinderellas. The thing is tha tthey don't go chasing after the hottest women on tinder.

OP is a white guy. Are you talking about the experiences you've gone through in America being part of a minority?

OP is tall and fit. He's not young, he's 40 years old, but there are women his own age and older on tinder.  Don't really see why OP would fail on tinder, except he'd need to brush on his conversational skills to get the ball going, but practice makes perfect.

Quote

I disagree with a lot of yours posts. However, I believe that women actually have more options compared to guys that are similar in looks. A few days ago, I saw this tall. young guy get rejected by a couple of girls at the sidewalk. At bars and night clubs, I see girls get approached by guys all the time. I also see young, athletic guys play the numbers game and endure a bunch of rejections before they find a girl that is interested. For a lot of guys, dating is like a part-time job. I don't think it's a good idea for a regular guy to use Tinder to date young, athletic women when those type of women have a lot of options.   

Doubtful. Women who have the most options in the dating world are the women who are young and attractive and charming. Basically, most women don't have the endless 1000000 options with 100000 Italian Princes and Giorgio Armani models like many men seem to believe they have.

I've met women who were attractive and they were still virgins in their early 20s. I met women who were smoking hot and at the age of 19, they couldn't find a date because guys wouldn't approach them, as most dudes are too chicken to approach someone they perceive to be above their pay grade, and the few guys who had the guts to do it, acted like a donkey about it.

It's a number's game.  when I was in my 20s I was rejected often and plenty, as an athletic guy, full head of thick hair, straight white teeth etc etc. Why? Be

A woman finding me to be hot doesn't mean she's going to sleep with me. She might be a lesbian but can still appreciate looking at a man who respects himself to not eat doritos.

A woman might have a boyfriend, and she's content and satisfied with the man she's with. She's not going to dump her boyfriend for you.

She might have just recently come out of a broken relationship and isn't interested in men.

She might be the kind of woman who isn't interested in casual sex, and needs a relationship for sex to happen.

She might be too busy with work, college, her own family, to find the energy and time to date.

 

And most women are not interested in casual sex. Not just with me. Not with a majority of men.  Because most of the time they leave the sexual liason feeling like the guy used her, as many guys don't care about the woman's sexual pleasure.  I

It's scary to go home with a guy who outweights you by 100 lbs of lean muscle.  You don't know if this guy is going to hurt you.

Stds are plenty out there, and what woman wants to catch one?  Condoms don't protect from HPV. Condoms don't protect from HSV -1 and HSV -2.

Quote

I think that a lot of guys struggle in dating because they don't realize how many more options women have compared to men. Young, women that are fit get treated by models. While, young athletic guys have to play the numbers again. ZA Dater, you got to choose to go all in online dating by changing your photos or you got to focus on cold approach. Going the social circle route won't work if you're too quiet.   

A lot of guys struggle in dating because they feel entitled to attractive young women. If a guy is overweight, short, balding at the age of 20, if he has  the social skills of rock, yeah. He's not going to be able to get a woman like this without using money, which is why you see a lot of Americans who come to lose their virginity in The Netherlands. They don't want to sleep with women who are in their league.

What many options do women have?

Average women are going to be pursued by average men. There is this male fantasy about not being able to get one-night stands or a girlfriend because hot men are sleeping with the average women and as a consequence women are so picky. 

No. Hot men date hot women. Hot men hook-up with hot women.  

Then there's the fact that many of these hot men act like jerks. They hit it and quit it. They are lousy in bed. They date these women but they treat women badly. Being beautiful doesn't mean what you think it means, for a woman. She's still vulnerable to having a terrible dating life.

 

[elaine567]

37 minutes ago, Azincourt said:

He should hire a dating coach, talk to the guy about his problems, and then work with him to fix his dating issues bit by bit.

Agreed.
Over the years just about everyone has come to that conclusion at some point, but ZA refuses to consult one. 
According to him, they are all rip off merchants, they know nothing and they give out one size fits all advice, none of which would help him...

[Azincourt]

18 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

Agreed.
Over the years just about everyone has come to that conclusion at some point, but ZA refuses to consult one. 
According to him, they are all rip off merchants, they know nothing and they give out one size fits all advice, none of which would help him...

He wants instant results. I might be wrong but I feel that he wants to get a hot girlfriend just for the sake of having someone that hot to be seen with, like an accomplishment trophy, and he's not really all that interested in spending time with her, or in getting to know her. I'm not sure about this, but he has never had a girlfriend, and he doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who is willing to put in the work and the necessary conversation to bring a woman home with him for the night, so he might not even be sexually active, and when when a guy really wants to have sex, he'll work something out.

Either he'll lower his standards to make sure he'll get a woman to sleep with him, like I've personally done many a time,  or he'll pay for it.  I'm sure he can afford a trip to the state of Nevada, the Bunn ranch, and get it over with, so sex might not even be an issue. Maybe he just wants a trophy girlfriend/wife.

He doesn't want to go on dates, he doesn't want to spend time with women talking about what those women like to talk about. He doesn't want to do the activities these women are a fan of. He doesn't want to lower his standards to something more realistic.  And he expects to be treated like a rockstar by hot women.

He doesn't want to bother with anything that takes him away from his daily routine. He just wants a hot woman with all of the positive characteristics and charming personality to her, that every guy is looking for in a woman, he wants women who are almost 20 years younger than him, and in return he's willing to give them absolutely nothing.

Can I buy a house without money?