How to be more desireable to search better

[Weezy1973]

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

People don't like me for me, that's just the reality of it. I can do whatever I like but there is always a better option for them.

This was exactly the main point of the video. You believe you’re not worthy of being loved.

 

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I don't really think there is an answer to be honest unless by some miracle there is someone I like who actually does like me but I reckon I'd have met at least one by now.

There is an answer, but it’s really hard work. It’s likely that this core belief (that you’re not worthy of being loved) was formed in childhood. And it has driven your life ever since. 
 

As she says, the only difference with the “whole-hearted” is that they actually believe they’re worth being loved, just the way they are. Nothing else. Not looks, or income, or being outgoing, or charming, or funny. Simply the belief that they’re worthy. 

[Azincourt]

10 hours ago, basil67 said:

😂😂

I tend to agree that it's impossible for ZA to be getting only obese matches.....but I think I can safely speak for him when I say that being single would be preferable to dating someone who's conversation is so poor that learning astrology and celebrity is required to make a connection.    I'd head for the hills if either of these topics were raised more than once a year.

Yes, dude makes it look like he's been living in Chunky City all of his life, when even back in the States, one of the world's leading nations in obesity, there's still plenty of fit/thin/skinny/normal weight women for guys who are fit to meet. It makes no sense to me why the only women who are interested in him are women who are obese, even exceedingly so.  And if things are so bad in his city, why doesn't he try other cities? Why doesn't he try his luck in other places other than in South Africa? Africa is a big place, about 500 million women for this guy to meet, plenty of women who'll find him to be attractive.

It's not about the guy's conversationalist skills being poor that learning about astrology and celebrity gossip is required to make a connection. There's plenty of women who are college educated  who love all of this stuff, with lots of them being bored of talking about academical subject matters,  which causes them to develop an interest in the esoteric realm,  and the more you're open to try new things, like learning about astrology as there's a huge number of young women around the world who actually believe in the stuff,  it will make it easier for him to connect with that woman.

It's like when a guy meets one of the women who works for SETI(search for intelligent life forms) and he is perfectly aware that this is the only planet in the Universe with life on it, but he makes it sound like he also believes in the possibility or in the reality of complex life forms out there in the Universe.

He's establishing a connection by taking part in her interests and women will be more partial to spending time with him.

Quote

I've used Tinder in South Africa (not literally there, but Tinder Gold) and I cannot reiterate enough just how many gorgeous women live there, especially in Cape Town.

Yes, there are tons of gorgeous tall, naturally blonde women with blue eyes and a great bod to them. The Dutch colonized South Africa so it's not uncommon for a guy to be walking down the streets of Johannesburg and to feel like he was transported to Stockholm.

With so many gorgeous women living in South Africa, how is it possible for @ZA Dater to not match on tinder with them? 

Quote

I absolutely disagree that there can only be obese, poorly educated women interested in you.  Surely there's plenty of normal-bodied, somewhat attractive-faced women with a college degree in all of Cape Town?

Exactly!

I cannot fathom how is it possible for OP to not notice all of the women who have a normal, healthy weight for their height, who aren't ugly, walking around when there's literally millions of those women living in South Africa? Doesn't OP notice their interest in getting to know him? Why? Is it because he only has eyes for women like  Candice Bouche?

Lots and lots of average-attractive college educated women in South Africa.

Quote

This was exactly the main point of the video. You believe you’re not worthy of being loved.

Nah, that's not how it works. This feel-good 21th century philosophy of people feeling like they are entitled something just because they're alive is detrimental to the mental health of many a person. No one is deserving of anything. People get what they have because they can get it.  Does someone deserve to be loved? Nah, he needs to make himself loveable, in whatever way it takes to be loveable by the women he wants to be loved by.

Does this particular woman like muscular men?

Then you become a worshiper at the Holy Temple of Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Does this woman in particular like rich men?

Then you work like a dog until you've made it big in the biz, either by becoming a successful actor, or a novelist.  You don't even need to be talented to become a rich novelist, just pray to lady luck that you might pump out another Twilight or Divergence.

Make yourself the best man you can be, by transforming your body into a thing of beauty, or by filling your bank accounts with gold and silver and rubies, by taking part in a commercial activity that people love to throw money at. Like become a divorce lawyer, a family law attorney. Those guys make huge bank.

No one deserves a wife, or a girlfriend, or sons or daughters. You're either what that woman or what women are looking for, mostly speaking, or you are going to end up 'alone.' So become the kind of man the women you desire are attracted to, and want, as their mate.

Quote

As she says, the only difference with the “whole-hearted” is that they actually believe they’re worth being loved, just the way they are. Nothing else. Not looks, or income, or being outgoing, or charming, or funny. Simply the belief that they’re worthy. 

Bro, there are millions and millions of men out there in the world, mostly in India, Pakistan, Iran and so forth who aren't going to get a date let alone a girlfriend or a wife, because there's far more men living in those Countries than there are women, and then there's the whole tricky subject of guys having to have money to get a wife because of the way their society is set up, and what ends up resulting in is a large percentage of young men who are not going to find a mate.

That's how it is. No one is deserving of romantic love. Everyone deserves the love of their parents and of their siblings, and grandparents and uncles and aunts. But romantic sex?

Nope.

Work for it. And if you can't compete with other men for the women you have your heart set on, you learn to deal with it,  and you go do something else, something productive and good with your life.

Edited September 24, 2020 by Azincourt

[elaine567]

19 minutes ago, Azincourt said:

Nah, that's not how it works

It is obvious you did not watch the video...  

[basil67]

29 minutes ago, Azincourt said:

It's not about the guy's conversationalist skills being poor that learning about astrology and celebrity gossip is required to make a connection. There's plenty of women who are college educated  who love all of this stuff, with lots of them being bored of talking about academical subject matters,  which causes them to develop an interest in the esoteric realm,  and the more you're open to try new things, like learning about astrology as there's a huge number of young women around the world who actually believe in the stuff,  it will make it easier for him to connect with that woman.

 

I'm sorry, I worded it poorly.   I didn't mean that ZA's conversation skills were poor.  I mean that the woman's conversation is so poor that he has to learn to speak on such inane topics just to attempt to make a connection.   A connection that he'd hate.   And obviously, if one hates the connection, then there is no connection. 

ZA wants a relationship with someone who can have intelligent conversation.  Brad Pitt and astrology do not make for interesting conversation....let alone witty or intelligent conversation.  Also, I know many educated women, and they can all converse on a great many topics outside of academia and who have zero interest in either astrology or movie stars.    I'm not sure why you suggest that educated women can only talk about either academia or rubbish.

Edited September 24, 2020 by basil67

[Trail Blazer]

44 minutes ago, Azincourt said:

Yes, there are tons of gorgeous tall, naturally blonde women with blue eyes and a great bod to them. The Dutch colonized South Africa so it's not uncommon for a guy to be walking down the streets of Johannesburg and to feel like he was transported to Stockholm.

With so many gorgeous women living in South Africa, how is it possible for @ZA Dater to not match on tinder with them? 

Exactly!

I cannot fathom how is it possible for OP to not notice all of the women who have a normal, healthy weight for their height, who aren't ugly, walking around when there's literally millions of those women living in South Africa? Doesn't OP notice their interest in getting to know him? Why? Is it because he only has eyes for women like  Candice Bouche?

Lots and lots of average-attractive college educated women in South Africa.

Yeah, or maybe Amsterdam, where it is said that the most beautiful prostitutes to have ever existed are in utter abundance.

But I digress...

As I've mentioned on multiple occasions, I used my Tinder Gold about a year ago to search for women in South Africa. 

Not only did I find that South Africa was littered with gorgeous women, but Cape Town was the star of the show.  The women there are incredible!

I matched with one of the most gorgeous women I've ever seen.  @ZA Dater her name was Louise, she'd be 35 now... she wasn't overly chatty, but, well... at least she swiped right and said a few words to me. 🤣

In all seriousness, I swiped right on so many women because so many were cute.  Hands down, they were cuter than a lot of cities in the U.S.

I'm not even into black girls, but there was plenty of cuties of the darker variety.  One, I have remained friends with and we chat on Messnger frequently.  We're both partnered up in our respective countries.  However, she's a fascinating woman.  Articulate, intelligent.

ZA, if you'd prefer to not answer this question then that's okay, because I'm well versed on the sensitive nature of racial history in your country, but are you open to dating black women as well as white?  The stats say that the majority of your country's population is black. 

Whilst my experience searching in RSA uncovered that whites are massively overrepresented on Tinder relative to the small percentage of whites actually living there, there was nonetheless a still significant portion of members who were black.

Discounting blacks, or people of color, whatever the most politically correct term is in your country, would wipe out a very large percentage of your dating pool.

Edited September 24, 2020 by Trail Blazer

[Azincourt]

1 hour ago, Trail Blazer said:

Yeah, or maybe Amsterdam, where it is said that the most beautiful prostitutes to have ever existed are in utter abundance.

But I digress...

Nah, the most beautiful prostitutes are either to be found in reality shows( I once remember reading the newspaper and coming across an article about a participant in that reality show Big Brother charging 1200 euros a night as an escort), or they're to be found in those rich hotels rich athletes happen to be at, at any given time.

Of course beautiful young models married to men who are much older than them, or instead of being married to much older men, they're married to men their own age, but the men are scrawny and plain-looking: those women are still prostitutes but are only accessible to one guy and one guy alone.

The one who is paying the bills full-time.

 

1 hour ago, Trail Blazer said:

As I've mentioned on multiple occasions, I used my Tinder Gold about a year ago to search for women in South Africa. 

Not only did I find that South Africa was littered with gorgeous women, but Cape Town was the star of the show.  The women there are incredible!

Bro, I even managed to come across beautiful blonde women while playing online video games.  We randomly come across each other playing league of legends, we think of each other as good players so, we exchange social media so that we can play again together, we start talking, they get bored with their day to day lives, they turn on the webcam or send videos and wouldn't you know.

21 years old, 6 feet tall, slim, and pretty as a peach. If a guy can find a beautiful young woman like this ONLINE, from an ocean away from where she lives, and she finds him to be attractive because he knows how to be a good conversationalist..

Is OP really trying to make us believe he has never come across a beautiful young woman living in the same city he's at, who doesn't want to go on a date with him?

Just talk to them, man. They're people just like everyone else. You just need to practice and soon enough you'll be good at what you're doing.  Hot women will want to go out with you, or at the very least they'll want to sext you or trade nudes, if you're funny, witty, charming, and if you can make them forget about the bills they have to pay, the rent they have to pay, and their annoying families that cause endless nagging.

 

1 hour ago, Trail Blazer said:

I matched with one of the most gorgeous women I've ever seen.  @ZA Dater her name was Louise, she'd be 35 now... she wasn't overly chatty, but, well... at least she swiped right and said a few words to me. 🤣

In all seriousness, I swiped right on so many women because so many were cute.  Hands down, they were cuter than a lot of cities in the U.S.

I'm not even into black girls, but there was plenty of cuties of the darker variety.  One, I have remained friends with and we chat on Messnger frequently.  We're both partnered up in our respective countries.  However, she's a fascinating woman.  Articulate, intelligent.

ZA, if you'd prefer to not answer this question then that's okay, because I'm well versed on the sensitive nature of racial history in your country, but are you open to dating black women as well as white?  The stats say that the majority of your country's population is black. 

Whilst my experience searching in RSA uncovered that whites are massively overrepresented on Tinder relative to the small percentage of whites actually living there, there was nonetheless a still significant portion of members who were black.

Discounting blacks, or people of color, whatever the most politically correct term is in your country, would wipe out a very large percentage of your dating pool.

Yes,  there are many women in Africa who are beautiful and interesting to talk to.  @ZA Dater are you only interested in dating white women or are you also open to dating women from other races and from different tribes? There's plenty of women to meet if you don't have a restrictive  set of rules when it comes to the women you want to date.

 

[elaine567]

I may be wrong but If I recollect correctly,  ZA is only interested in white women.

[Azincourt]

Only interested in white women when the majority of the women living on the Continent he's currently a part of are women who aren't white. Only interested in physically attractive young women. Women who have many, many positive dating qualities to them, making it that they can afford to be selective about the men they date, and about what those men have to offer to them.  Doesn't want to take part in any hobby/interest/conversation that doesn't fit what he likes, and really, what does he like? Does he like anything? What does he like to talk about?

@ZA Dater why are you so picky? This is what astonishes us so much. You're not the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia. You're not a billionaire. You're not a millionaire, and it's not like you're the son of Brad Pitt. So why are you so obsessed with women who are way above your own league??

[ZA Dater]

16 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

This was exactly the main point of the video. You believe you’re not worthy of being loved.

 

There is an answer, but it’s really hard work. It’s likely that this core belief (that you’re not worthy of being loved) was formed in childhood. And it has driven your life ever since. 
 

As she says, the only difference with the “whole-hearted” is that they actually believe they’re worth being loved, just the way they are. Nothing else. Not looks, or income, or being outgoing, or charming, or funny. Simply the belief that they’re worthy. 

Well for me beliefs are based on experiences. For me the belief was created after being rejected countless times, had I had some success I do not think I would believe what I do. Of course thinking can be reversed which is why I was/am hoping for one good experience. Having said that though I do from time to time interact with people who give me probably 75% of what I like so while they don't love me they are nice to me. Which is a refreshing change from the endless dating rejection. 

I have never really "belonged" either so its not like I have had tons of friends and big social circles, without going into too much detail growing up for me was about beating the odds, pushing myself to do what people thought I could not do. Proving people wrong in other words. 

I might not believe that someone can love me but I do believe I can love someone. For me I look at life like a scale which needs to be balanced, there are people around me who balance that scale, I can open up with them and feel the better for doing so and they see the good in me. "Just the way they are" I don't really agree with that because when do we really know we are the best version of ourselves?

 

[ZA Dater]

10 hours ago, basil67 said:

I'm sorry, I worded it poorly.   I didn't mean that ZA's conversation skills were poor.  I mean that the woman's conversation is so poor that he has to learn to speak on such inane topics just to attempt to make a connection.   A connection that he'd hate.   And obviously, if one hates the connection, then there is no connection. 

ZA wants a relationship with someone who can have intelligent conversation.  Brad Pitt and astrology do not make for interesting conversation....let alone witty or intelligent conversation.  Also, I know many educated women, and they can all converse on a great many topics outside of academia and who have zero interest in either astrology or movie stars.    I'm not sure why you suggest that educated women can only talk about either academia or rubbish.

Exactly this, you hit the nail on the head with this entire post. I am not asking for someone who is a CEO but it would be nice if she can talk about a variety of topic. These types of dates are simply terrible where I have to operate on such an inane level to just have a conversation. 

The problem I have is a grew up exposed to many different topics, beliefs, cultures, well its not a problem but it can be from a dating conversation point of view.

[ZA Dater]

18 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

@ZA Dater if you're using Tinder, and you're only getting interest from undesirables, why are you swiping right on them in the first place?

I've used Tinder in South Africa (not literally there, but Tinder Gold) and I cannot reiterate enough just how many gorgeous women live there, especially in Cape Town.

I absolutely disagree that there can only be obese, poorly educated women interested in you.  Surely there's plenty of normal-bodied, somewhat attractive-faced women with a college degree in all of Cape Town?

I think you are being too fussy, too rigid, too... something!  I don't know what, but something is preventing you from seeing beauty in the average woman.  Not ugly, not hot, but just normal.  Because, there's no way that every "normal" woman looks the other way at you...

I just use the boost function because I cant be bothered to scroll through endless people who do not interest me. For the reason you need to look at history in South Africa and I am not going to walk down this road any further than to say like in countries like Brazil it easy for the average guy to get dates from people who are looking to desperately escape circumstances, they want a better life and dating could be a way to escape those circumstances. I get LOTS of these sort of matches, I have gone on dates with some of them but it becomes apparent very quickly what they actually want, which is mostly prestige. 

In fact might go so far as to actually send screenshots to you to show you what sort of people I am matching with. 

[ZA Dater]

11 hours ago, Azincourt said:

t's like when a guy meets one of the women who works for SETI(search for intelligent life forms) and he is perfectly aware that this is the only planet in the Universe with life on it, but he makes it sound like he also believes in the possibility or in the reality of complex life forms out there in the Universe.

He's establishing a connection by taking part in her interests and women will be more partial to spending time with him.

Yes, there are tons of gorgeous tall, naturally blonde women with blue eyes and a great bod to them. The Dutch colonized South Africa so it's not uncommon for a guy to be walking down the streets of Johannesburg and to feel like he was transported to Stockholm.

With so many gorgeous women living in South Africa, how is it possible for @ZA Dater to not match on tinder with them? 

Exactly!

I cannot fathom how is it possible for OP to not notice all of the women who have a normal, healthy weight for their height, who aren't ugly, walking around when there's literally millions of those women living in South Africa? Doesn't OP notice their interest in getting to know him? Why? Is it because he only has eyes for women like  Candice Bouche?

Lots and lots of average-attractive college educated women in South Africa.

Nah, that's not how it works. This feel-good 21th century philosophy of people feeling like they are entitled something just because they're alive is detrimental to the mental health of many a person. No one is deserving of anything. People get what they have because they can get it.  Does someone deserve to be loved? Nah, he needs to make himself loveable, in whatever way it takes to be lovable by the women he wants to be loved by.

 

Work for it. And if you can't compete with other men for the women you have your heart set on, you learn to deal with it,  and you go do something else, something productive and good with your life.

The bold made me laugh because clearly you have not been to JHB. The second bold part is truth. I am tired of trying to be what I think women want and none of them ever do. Tired of of trying to fit in for no real purpose. 

I go on dates, some with people I find attractive, I am friendly, I try and the results never differ and here I agree with you, because its a frankly shop, women choose, men hope to be chosen. Either you keep running on the wheel or you get off the wheel and forget about it.  For me I loose out because there is always someone apparently better. 

Yes, there are decent looking/good looking ladies in Cape Town, actually a lot of them but I look at the sort of guys they go out with and then I look at me, no chance, really none at all. Which is probably why I do not find dating very stressful because if one did go on a date with me I know it would never work. I have this deep seated belief that it is possible if someone would actually just look at me as a person. 

One thing dating has taught me is to care a lot less about the entire process and its why I completely switch off when I have to sit and listen to a friend telling me who is going out with who, showing me the ladies he is chatting to, he is marketable so of course he going to get the pick. He like this forum cannot understand why I get no decent matches.  I have been to clubs and bars, looked around there and the dynamic is very clear, its 99.9% superficial. I am actually of the opinion you can be the biggest idiot and still attract the most attractive simply be virtue of pandering to the superficial. What does that really say though?

[Trail Blazer]

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I just use the boost function because I cant be bothered to scroll through endless people who do not interest me. For the reason you need to look at history in South Africa and I am not going to walk down this road any further than to say like in countries like Brazil it easy for the average guy to get dates from people who are looking to desperately escape circumstances, they want a better life and dating could be a way to escape those circumstances. I get LOTS of these sort of matches, I have gone on dates with some of them but it becomes apparent very quickly what they actually want, which is mostly prestige. 

In fact might go so far as to actually send screenshots to you to show you what sort of people I am matching with. 

What the hell, dude!?  Endless people who don't interest you?  My god, man!  If I didn't know any better, I'd actually say you're trolling... 

I've searched Cape Town on Tinder one year ago.  I guess I can say that I'm a reasonably decent looking guy with standards that are fairly high, without being unreasonable.

So, if someone like me can say that I swiped right on literally thousands of women, just in Cape Town, over a period of two or so weeks, how could it be so that you can't even be bothered scrolling because, according to you, there are only "endless people who don't interest you"?

I'm lost for words, bro!  I truly am...

You also seem rather coy about whether you would entertain dating women of mixed-race, or non-whites.  I think it's fair to say the answer is seemingly, no.  I suspect you believe that women of color would only want to date you to "desperately escape their circumstances"

I'm not one to school you on your own culture.  I understand the sensitive nature around race-relations in South Africa and allow for the possibility that inter-racial relationships might be taboo.  I'm merely curious, though.

In any case, most of the ladies on Tinder in South Africa were white.  At least the top stack of profile cards were.  And, for many of them, thousands, they were white, well educated and seemed interesting.

Can you honestly say you've exhausted all avenues, if you can't even be bothered to swipe on the profiles available?

[ZA Dater]

11 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

What the hell, dude!?  Endless people who don't interest you?  My god, man!  If I didn't know any better, I'd actually say you're trolling... 

I've searched Cape Town on Tinder one year ago.  I guess I can say that I'm a reasonably decent looking guy with standards that are fairly high, without being unreasonable.

So, if someone like me can say that I swiped right on literally thousands of women, just in Cape Town, over a period of two or so weeks, how could it be so that you can't even be bothered scrolling because, according to you, there are only "endless people who don't interest you"?

I'm lost for words, bro!  I truly am...

You also seem rather coy about whether you would entertain dating women of mixed-race, or non-whites.  I think it's fair to say the answer is seemingly, no.  I suspect you believe that women of color would only want to date you to "desperately escape their circumstances"

I'm not one to school you on your own culture.  I understand the sensitive nature around race-relations in South Africa and allow for the possibility that inter-racial relationships might be taboo.  I'm merely curious, though.

In any case, most of the ladies on Tinder in South Africa were white.  At least the top stack of profile cards were.  And, for many of them, thousands, they were white, well educated and seemed interesting.

Can you honestly say you've exhausted all avenues, if you can't even be bothered to swipe on the profiles available?

I have swiped before to the point where I have no more matches in my area, being a radius of 125 km's or approximately 80 miles. I then reset my account. Perhaps I should have been clearer.  I can sit and swipe but I just get the same matches, I put up new pictures and its the same matches. 

Sure, there are lovely looking interesting people, I don't disagree there they just are not interested in matching with me, a friend of mine gets plenty of matches, in many instances, ladies half his age, another is good looking and she has 4500 matches. Think about that for a minute, that 4500 likes. While Azincourts rather brash approach doesn't really sit well with me the fundamentals of what he says are not completely wrong.

I am not prepared to enter into conversation about race. I have my preference I am sticking with that.

Bottom line with Tinder you need to be attractive to do well at it, that is not new at all. It just becomes truly pointless swiping and swiping when I know the ones I like wont like me and why should they when they have endless choice? The problem with me is a fundamental lack of attractiveness coupled with a complete lack of compatibility. I can stick my head in the sand all I want and try ignore that but when you add awkwardness, lack of experience and shyness you land up with someone people are not going to find attractive or want to expend any energy on no matter what good qualities he might have. However being slim and fairly fit might make some who themselves may fall into the "hopeless" "unattractive" category may find me attractive, this in many instances proven to be true.

 

 

[Datingdisabled]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

I have swiped before to the point where I have no more matches in my area, being a radius of 125 km's or approximately 80 miles. I then reset my account. Perhaps I should have been clearer.  I can sit and swipe but I just get the same matches, I put up new pictures and its the same matches. 

Sure, there are lovely looking interesting people, I don't disagree there they just are not interested in matching with me, a friend of mine gets plenty of matches, in many instances, ladies half his age, another is good looking and she has 4500 matches. Think about that for a minute, that 4500 likes. While Azincourts rather brash approach doesn't really sit well with me the fundamentals of what he says are not completely wrong.

I am not prepared to enter into conversation about race. I have my preference I am sticking with that.

Bottom line with Tinder you need to be attractive to do well at it, that is not new at all. It just becomes truly pointless swiping and swiping when I know the ones I like wont like me and why should they when they have endless choice? The problem with me is a fundamental lack of attractiveness coupled with a complete lack of compatibility. I can stick my head in the sand all I want and try ignore that but when you add awkwardness, lack of experience and shyness you land up with someone people are not going to find attractive or want to expend any energy on no matter what good qualities he might have. However being slim and fairly fit might make some who themselves may fall into the "hopeless" "unattractive" category may find me attractive, this in many instances proven to be true.

 

 

I'm single and I like it. I would be afraid to get into a relationship with someone and your mentality. Dating isn't for everyone which is why people settle down more quick. Others like it and enjoy it. You can't know what kind of people you seek until you meet them. Someone will come and the connection will be there and you have no idea what that person looks like. If you look to hard, you won't find it. @Trail Blazer in no professional environment do men need co workers to comment on their SO and their looks. If that's important, looks are only a part of the package. I've never worked (and I work with men only) with anyone who cared what someone else's partner looked like but then again, there's a lot of money where I work and we all have our eye on that. 

[ZA Dater]

On 9/24/2020 at 4:39 AM, Weezy1973 said:

This was exactly the main point of the video. You believe you’re not worthy of being loved.

 

There is an answer, but it’s really hard work. It’s likely that this core belief (that you’re not worthy of being loved) was formed in childhood. And it has driven your life ever since. 
 

As she says, the only difference with the “whole-hearted” is that they actually believe they’re worth being loved, just the way they are. Nothing else. Not looks, or income, or being outgoing, or charming, or funny. Simply the belief that they’re worthy. 

I had a think about this today. I think inherently my belief just originates from the endless level of rejection I have, look I get it, its part of the game but equally I think everyone has been in the position of really liking someone, enjoying spending time with the, enjoy the complete intangible about them, their personality etc. The issue with me is never do I get anywhere with the people I enjoy spending time with. When you go through this over and over the disappointment does become crushing, I think had I actually had some success with one of those people and by success I mean perhaps maybe 10 dates then my viewpoint would not be what it is because I would know that someone I find amazing can actually love me. 

At the moment I just find myself existing in the dating context and everyone I like is taken or not interested. Its because of this I try to be what I think people will want and disappointingly this does work some of the time but all of the times it has I feel nothing at all for the other person. After being rejected so many times I believe in the context of dating there is nothing good about me. 

Maybe not everyone wants the same thing, maybe they do differ, maybe its me who has the blinkers on, maybe its me who is blinded to reality. What I do know is I have no real game, its very difficult for me to distinguish between when someone is being friendly and if they actually like me. This is because more often than not I my uses to people, be it expertise, guidance or what I am especially good at: listening. I had a very odd lunch a few weeks, there were quite a few of us at the lunch and next to me was a very attractive lady, we chatted, it was easy communication, granted she was trying to "sell" and by definition that means taking an interest in the person you are looking to sell something to but this was followed up by a very nice personal e mail. I'd be punching way above my weight so thought nothing of it. But it was a good lunch because I could just be me, all the topics I like to talk about, a lot of small talk around the table which I surprisingly enjoyed on this occasion, maybe because there were 7 very different people at the table. The inherent problem is I have no way to show any sort of interest and in the back of my mind I know rejection is a 85% possibility here. I'll admit it I am very tired of rejection and very weary to put any sort of foot forward. Just about the only thing I could think of is bringing some wine into the equation and seeing what happens. To me that almost seems like "cheating".

I do sometimes question my own beliefs, posts like the above make me question myself more. 

 

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

I had a think about this today. I think inherently my belief just originates from the endless level of rejection 

 

So, first to deconstruct belief for a second. Our brains aren’t designed to accurately interpret the world and then guide us through it based on reality. Instead, our brains tend to hold onto beliefs and interpret the world through the lens of what we already believe, which in turn makes our beliefs stronger. It doesn’t matter if our beliefs are right or wrong, healthy or unhealthy, helpful or detrimental. Chances are, we will continue to believe what we already do, even if those beliefs lead us to failure over and over again. That’s essentially why therapy exists, as a way to attempt to break from our unhelpful beliefs so that we can succeed in areas where we’ve only experienced failure before. And the tendency to keep believing what we already believe is why therapy often fails. 
 

To be blunt, the reason you’re failing at finding love, is due to your beliefs, not due to reality. If you look objectively at the world, you’ll see all sorts of people finding love and relationships and having sex and genuinely connecting with others. Not just beautiful people. Not just outgoing people. Not just charming people. All sorts of people. That’s reality. The key to connecting genuinely is believing that you’re worthy of connection. You don’t believe it.

And because our beliefs tend to feed on themselves and become stronger and stronger it’s why therapists, almost universally, will try to talk at least a bit about a person’s childhood. Because that’s where our strongest beliefs start as they’ve had such a long time to be reinforced through the years.

Now you’ve barely talked about your childhood, mentioning your mother being a cold and serious person a few times, and I don’t think you’ve ever mentioned your dad. But I certainly get the impression your childhood wasn’t one filled with warmth and love and laughter and joy. Unconditional love being the most important of these as without it a core belief often arises that views love as conditional. And ZA Dater, that indeed is a core belief of yours. Love is conditional, and you don’t meet those conditions.

Someone who believes they’re worthy of love can more easily handle rejection because they don’t see rejection as meaning there’s something wrong with themselves. They just feel they have inherent value whether that other person is interested in them or not. Their value is not dependent on others at all. 
 

One past experience that you’ve mentioned a few times, is asking out a girl in high school and being rejected in public and how humiliated you felt. So much so, that you retreated from seeking connection and threw yourself into schoolwork and later your professional life, avoiding those intense feelings of rejection. But as you’ve noticed, isolating yourself hasn’t really worked. You still crave connection. And so begins the next phase where you decide to try dating again. But you want to do it safely, so you can try to find connection, but without vulnerability. And as your seemingly endless epic threads will attest to, it doesn’t work that way. Connection by definition requires vulnerability.
 

Because believe it or not ZA Dater, you are infinitely worthy of being loved. Exactly the way you are.
 

And stop using Tinder. 

[Chilli]

Personally , whatever the childhood , za's had rejection after rejection with the opposite sex with zero success to take from , don't think there's much rocket science needed in realizing that'd knock anyone around childhood or no childhood. He also has a problem understanding how things just tick in this department and a pretty closed view of things too,  l know he tries buttttt. And now negativity is rule from so much of the lack of  .

You know what za , l'd really consider paying someone , just for some experience and thus some confidence. She might even be someone that's warm and open that you can be totally honest with and happy to help you find your feet a little. She doesn't have to be some worn out pro there are people that do just a little of that sort of thing on the side now and then type thing that you would never even guess at by looking at them or passing them on the street. In my world even students or single women run little ads doing this type of thing to get by , not sayin l like it just sayin . Dosn't mean you have to jump straight into the sack , you might prefer to cuddle and talk , or take hr out to tea and talk , tell her what you need, or whatever and from there who knows. But if you could be with someone like that over a few wks , find your feet , you'd be up and running. Because it's pretty obvious otherwise you'll just keep doing the circles you have been for yrs on until your just too fed up to care anymore. Start checking the newspaper or whatever websites you have there, whatever for private ads , find someone you like the sound of and have her over, spend some time.

[ZA Dater]

13 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

So, first to deconstruct belief for a second. Our brains aren’t designed to accurately interpret the world and then guide us through it based on reality. Instead, our brains tend to hold onto beliefs and interpret the world through the lens of what we already believe, which in turn makes our beliefs stronger. It doesn’t matter if our beliefs are right or wrong, healthy or unhealthy, helpful or detrimental. Chances are, we will continue to believe what we already do, even if those beliefs lead us to failure over and over again. That’s essentially why therapy exists, as a way to attempt to break from our unhelpful beliefs so that we can succeed in areas where we’ve only experienced failure before. And the tendency to keep believing what we already believe is why therapy often fails. 
 

To be blunt, the reason you’re failing at finding love, is due to your beliefs, not due to reality. If you look objectively at the world, you’ll see all sorts of people finding love and relationships and having sex and genuinely connecting with others. Not just beautiful people. Not just outgoing people. Not just charming people. All sorts of people. That’s reality. The key to connecting genuinely is believing that you’re worthy of connection. You don’t believe it.

And because our beliefs tend to feed on themselves and become stronger and stronger it’s why therapists, almost universally, will try to talk at least a bit about a person’s childhood. Because that’s where our strongest beliefs start as they’ve had such a long time to be reinforced through the years.

Now you’ve barely talked about your childhood, mentioning your mother being a cold and serious person a few times, and I don’t think you’ve ever mentioned your dad. But I certainly get the impression your childhood wasn’t one filled with warmth and love and laughter and joy. Unconditional love being the most important of these as without it a core belief often arises that views love as conditional. And ZA Dater, that indeed is a core belief of yours. Love is conditional, and you don’t meet those conditions.

Someone who believes they’re worthy of love can more easily handle rejection because they don’t see rejection as meaning there’s something wrong with themselves. They just feel they have inherent value whether that other person is interested in them or not. Their value is not dependent on others at all. 
 

One past experience that you’ve mentioned a few times, is asking out a girl in high school and being rejected in public and how humiliated you felt. So much so, that you retreated from seeking connection and threw yourself into schoolwork and later your professional life, avoiding those intense feelings of rejection. But as you’ve noticed, isolating yourself hasn’t really worked. You still crave connection. And so begins the next phase where you decide to try dating again. But you want to do it safely, so you can try to find connection, but without vulnerability. And as your seemingly endless epic threads will attest to, it doesn’t work that way. Connection by definition requires vulnerability.
 

Because believe it or not ZA Dater, you are infinitely worthy of being loved. Exactly the way you are.
 

And stop using Tinder. 

Sure, I get it all people can connect but would it be fair to say they like the people they connect with? I have no real base of success to work from, everything just goes the same way so when I do not know how to do something it becomes very difficult to actually do it, dates pick up on this very quickly and when they do the ware is lost not matter what redeeming qualities I may have.  If there is one thing I have learnt expect nothing and your are never surprised. 

The problem really is I am trying to balance two ideals, the experience I want versus what I can actually find, the difference between the two is vast. A good example of what I mean is this, a few years ago I ended up sponsoring an art student, spent quite a lot of time with her, her viewpoint on life was refreshing and new, she showed me things I had not thought about or experienced and I showed her things in life she had not experienced. It was just nice.  Then I go on a date and there is nothing really there, nothing to really captivate me or make me want to spend time with the person. For arguments sake lets call it connection.

Which do you think I enjoyed more, the former obviously. That is the thing though I enjoy those sort of interactions but put me down at a table with someone on a date and unless there is something new to learn, some interesting perspective I just do not enjoy the experience at all. Probably  85% of my dates are like that. Flip things over and when I was chasing just physical interaction the experiences became even worse because then not only was I not meeting physically attractive people I was not meeting people who interested me either.

My question to you is this, how do you balance the two, the interaction with connection, I always believed one could lead to the other. 

I look back at times, the yoga instructor was a good example of this, I think I made it fairly obvious I liked her but she was after another guy and this is where my deep belief of never being good enough comes from because ultimately every single person I have liked has not liked me, not ONCE have I ever had a situation where they like me. Think about that, its like running after the sunset, you cannot catch it. I need to find a way to reverse that trend because I know if I can get it right just once I would have renewed belief it was possible because right now that belief just is not there.

Another thing you do not know is I am pretty much everyone's emotional shoulder to lean on so I take on a lot of that but it gives me insight in some of the good and not so good of dating, for whatever reason everyone tells me their secrets and issues. Probably because I have no experience so can give the most unbiased viewpoint. The severe negative with this is that in the case of one person, he can get virtually any date he wants so I see that side of the coin, how easy it is, sure he will tell me he gets rejected but next week there is another stunning date by his side. Then I see how good it can be with another person and part of me wishes I could experience some of that good some of the time.

People see me as a strong support pillar so for the most part I walk around like all is good with the world, sure those who have known me 20 years have never seen me with a date so they do sort of know, people I meet well some ask some do not, its a mixed bag. What I am trying to figure out is how to reverse this, its not about meet ups, its not about going to random places, its about finding people I really like,  that is the biggest problem.

The journalist from Sweden was amazing to spend time with, what was meant to be a one hour lunch lasted most of the day, the Doctor from Colorado, same thing, the political analyst was equally interesting, the gym instructor, the yoga teacher, the restaurant manager and a few more besides, all these were nice experiences but I could not make anything of them. That's the problem. 

 

[Azincourt]

On 9/25/2020 at 3:20 PM, ZA Dater said:

I have swiped before to the point where I have no more matches in my area, being a radius of 125 km's or approximately 80 miles. I then reset my account. Perhaps I should have been clearer.  I can sit and swipe but I just get the same matches, I put up new pictures and its the same matches. 

You've never tried to expand your search area by a few hundreds of miles? 

 

On 9/25/2020 at 3:20 PM, ZA Dater said:

Sure, there are lovely looking interesting people, I don't disagree there they just are not interested in matching with me, a friend of mine gets plenty of matches, in many instances, ladies half his age, another is good looking and she has 4500 matches. Think about that for a minute, that 4500 likes. While Azincourts rather brash approach doesn't really sit well with me the fundamentals of what he says are not completely wrong.

Yes, and so what?

I've seen rich soccer players get 100000 hot groupies throwing themselves at them and I don't stew over it. It's just how it is. Some men are going to get a lot more hot women than all of the other men put together.  You need to accept that and adapt yourself to your enviroment.

 

On 9/25/2020 at 3:20 PM, ZA Dater said:

I am not prepared to enter into conversation about race. I have my preference I am sticking with that.

Bottom line with Tinder you need to be attractive to do well at it, that is not new at all. It just becomes truly pointless swiping and swiping when I know the ones I like wont like me and why should they when they have endless choice? The problem with me is a fundamental lack of attractiveness coupled with a complete lack of compatibility. I can stick my head in the sand all I want and try ignore that but when you add awkwardness, lack of experience and shyness you land up with someone people are not going to find attractive or want to expend any energy on no matter what good qualities he might have. However being slim and fairly fit might make some who themselves may fall into the "hopeless" "unattractive" category may find me attractive, this in many instances proven to be true.

 

You don't need to be good-looking to do well on tinder as a man. The problem with tinder and with most men who claim they have no luck is that the majority of the male users of tinder are all interested in the most attractive women to be found on tinder, and only when they're obviousl rejected by those women, they start to show an interest in women in their own league. That's all there is to it. If the majority of men who use tinder didn't have their eyes set on beautiful women, they wouldn't be met with endless failures.

I dunno, man. There's more to a man's physical fitness than the fact he's not overweight. Expecting beautiful young women to want to date a guy just because he's slim and fit doesn't make that much sense to me. How's the guy's hairline? Does he have an attractive face? How's his teeth? Does he look old? Does he look his age? Does he look way too young for the age he's supposed to be?

Then there's lots of other non-physical attributes that can make a plain-looking guy attractive. Sense of humor, his ability to flirt well, his high self-esteem, his confindence, his hobbies, his interests etc etc.

 

 

On 9/25/2020 at 3:20 PM, ZA Dater said:

 

 

[elaine567]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

The journalist from Sweden was amazing to spend time with, what was meant to be a one hour lunch lasted most of the day, the Doctor from Colorado, same thing, the political analyst was equally interesting, the gym instructor, the yoga teacher, the restaurant manager and a few more besides, all these were nice experiences but I could not make anything of them. That's the problem. 

I was going to say you are good friend but not lover material...
However as none of these women really wanted to keep you as a friend either, you are good "acquaintance" material.
Fine to spend a little time with but no-one has really wanted to delve any deeper and get to know you better.

Why is that?
 

[Azincourt]

I dunno, man.  @ZA Dater seems to be looking for a picture-perfect girlfriend.  He expects a woman to be perfect, but he doesn't have in himself and on himself the qualities these women are looking for.  How is a guy supposed to succeed in what he's looking for when what he has to offer isn't what the women he wants are looking for in a man?

The problem is that maybe you're trying to reach for women who above you? Women who are more interesting than you? Women who are younger than you? Women who are more physically attractive than you? Women with hobbies that are fun to take part of?

And being fit and lean isn't the holy grail that is going to get a man a woman like these highly-in-demand women that you are keen to date. It helps, it does help a lot, if the vast majority of the men around you are overweight and obese: but are they?

Is the average guy around you obese/overweight?

You gotta bring something more to the table.

OP, go check out pictures of Montgomery Clift, Rock Hudson, James Dean, Jimmy Stewart, Paul Newman,  Erroll Flynn, back in the 1930s-1950s and then compare the looks of those men with your own.

Does your body match their own? 

That's good.

Now compare their faces and hairlines. 

What's the result? 

You can see what makes a man physically attractive, right? You notice the men women notice when they're walking about in their day to day life, yes?

Edited September 27, 2020 by Azincourt

[ZA Dater]

4 hours ago, elaine567 said:

I was going to say you are good friend but not lover material...
However as none of these women really wanted to keep you as a friend either, you are good "acquaintance" material.
Fine to spend a little time with but no-one has really wanted to delve any deeper and get to know you better.

Why is that?
 

Your guess is as good as mine. But if I had to guess it would be because I simply do not fit in. 

[Azincourt]

what do you mean you don't fit in?

What is fitting in and how is not fitting in keeping you from getting a hot yoga teacher or a hot young executive?

[Weezy1973]

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Sure, I get it all people can connect but would it be fair to say they like the people they connect with?

 

Yes, most of the time people are attracted to the people they’re in relationships with and they like them. Not always, but in most cases.

 

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

The problem really is I am trying to balance two ideals, the experience I want versus what I can actually find, the difference between the two is vast. 

The problem is thinking there are only two categories (black and white thinking) rather than understanding there are shades of gray in between. Let’s say the ideal person you want is a “10” and the people matching you on Tinder are a “2”, there’s a lot of people in between that you seem to ignore. You think that people only succeed if they find their 10. But it’s simply not the case. Success is finding someone you love who loves you back, warts and all. They won’t be perfect and neither are you. 

 

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

For arguments sake lets call it connection.

What you’re referring to is what most people refer to as chemistry. Mutual attraction mixed with having a date where each person wants a second date. Connection happens after getting to know someone over time. It’s more what I listed above, loving someone warts and all, and then loving you back warts and all.

 

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

My question to you is this, how do you balance the two, the interaction with connection, I always believed one could lead to the other. 

One can lead to other, but it’s not going to happen on Tinder. Or at a bar. It happens for many at school / university, or in the workplace. Anywhere you see the same people over a long period of time has the opportunity for attraction to grow over time. 

 

6 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

That's the problem. 

 

Not really. Meeting people you’re attracted to who aren’t interested in anything romantic is actually pretty normal. Not a problem. I think you make things into rejections that aren’t as well. Someone not matching you on Tinder is not a rejection. If texting with a Tinder match fades and turns into nothing, also not a rejection. If someone you’re interested in is already in a relationship or interested in someone else, also not a rejection.