How to be more desireable to search better

[5x5]

14 minutes ago, Azincourt said:

I'm not sure about this, but he has never had a girlfriend, and he doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who is willing to put in the work and the necessary conversation to bring a woman home with him for the night, so he might not even be sexually active, and when when a guy really wants to have sex, he'll work something out.

He hasn't had a girlfriend and has said has never had sex with someone in his life.

I'm not convinced, he desires any sex at all, so I don't get why he bothers trying to date.

[Azincourt]

14 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

He hasn't had a girlfriend and has said has never had sex with someone in his life.

I'm not convinced, he desires any sex at all, so I don't get why he bothers trying to date.

He's never had sex before, and he's never had a girlfriend, and he's never pursued sex or a girlfriend, from what I can tell.

He might be asexual and is being pressured by his parents to get married and to have a child, because they want a grandson, and OP is auto-rejecting himself by elevating his standards in women to a point he knows he will fail in getting a woman like to date him/marry him, on purpose, because then he will be able to tell his parents he tried, he really did, to get a girlfriend, but women ''are just so picky these days.''

Or,  he's highly successful in his line of work, but his boss and co-workers think he might bat for the other team because they have never seen him with a woman before, and to discredit any rumors of being gay, OP has decided to find himself a girlfriend. A hot one. To make his co-workers and his boss envious and to applaud him for getting a woman like that.

It could also be that he has never taken  a date to his Company's annual dinner ballroom and he's sick and tired of standing out like a sore thumb because he's the only guy there without a date.

Edited September 8, 2020 by Azincourt

[5x5]

3 minutes ago, Azincourt said:

It could also be that he has never taken  a date to his Company's annual dinner ballroom and he's sick and tired of standing out like a sore thumb because he's the only guy there without a date.

I don't recall any mention of pressure from parents, yet looking the part and not wanting to turn up to events without a partner seems to be a common theme. 

[Azincourt]

4 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

I don't recall any mention of pressure from parents, yet looking the part and not wanting to turn up to events without a partner seems to be a common theme. 

He might have never mentioned it  because he feels like being told by his own parents at the age of 40 to be demeaning.  Yeah, there's lots of activities that are better enjoyed with a partner. He might take a friend or two to those events,  which would nullify the need for a girlfriend, but I reckon OP doesn't have friends.

Basically OP's main issue is not the lack of a girlfriend, because he's not really all that interested in having a girlfriend, but a lack of friends to spend time with and share common interests and hobbies, outside of his workplace?

Edited September 8, 2020 by Azincourt

[5x5]

5 minutes ago, Azincourt said:

Basically OP's main issue is not the lack of a girlfriend, because he's not really all that interested in having a girlfriend, but a lack of friends to spend time with and share common interests and hobbies, outside of his workplace?

Yep, finding friends that Grok him and want to spend time with him would really help.

[elaine567]

His other issue that his main friend/hobby group such as it is, is at least a decade older too.
So although he is looking for young women, he is stuck in an "older" mindset.

Whilst some young women may want to "date their Dad", I guess not literally.
Older guys who act young with some joie de vivre, yes all day.
Older guys who are serious, no fun and act like a parent, not so much...
 

[basil67]

Hey guys, the dude you're talking about can hear what you're saying.   Speak to him, not about him.

[Azincourt]

So the guy is 40 years old and he hangs out with 50 year olds, and he's looking for a 25 year old woman.

Who is still in her 20s, and interacts and deals mostly with men who are her own age, younger, and slightly older.

What would have have in common with a woman that young'? Or even with a 30 year old woman when his social circles is made up entirely of people who are 15 years away from retirement.

That would be nearly impossible to pull off.

Young women will date a man who is 5 years older, 10 years older ,even 15 years older if HE looks GOOD, if he had a baby face when he was 18 and aged remarkably well due to having no mortggage to pay for, no debt to deal with, and no wife/kids to take care of, a guy who has never smoked in his life, doesn't consume alcohol, doesn't intake sugar, chocolate, only eats healthy, and uses skin-care products, and also has kept a thick full head of hair.

Obviously most men aged 30-35 don't fill this bill, let alone men who are 40+ years old,  making it extremely hard for a guy that picky to get what he wants.

Besides, dating a woman much younger than you, even if she thinks you are younger than her is going to be awkward. 

You have 2 options:

A) Lie to her and say you're like 30 years old and then face losing the relationship when she begins to feel she can't trust you if you lie about this.

B) Gonna  be real  awkward when you meet her parents and you realize you are only 5 to 10 years younger than your girlfriend's parents, and her parents will think you're a creepy.

Besides, a guy who is just getting started in the dating world shouldn't go and try to reach for the best the dating world has to offer. Those women are in high demand. Unless you're lucky enough to live in a state/city/Country where there are far more women living there than there are men: hot 25 years old won't lower their standards because they don't have to.

[5x5]

@ZA Dater do you think you could try making more friends platonically?

[Azincourt]

4 hours ago, 5x5 said:

@ZA Dater do you think you could try making more friends platonically?

Men or women?

Men are easy to befriend. Women tend to assume a guy who is acting all friendly wants to sleep with them so their guard is up. Most of my female friends are women I met back in college or met through friends or at work.  I have a lot of female acquaintances, but lack of time and distance never allowed for a friendship to happen.

[CaliforniaGirl]

7 hours ago, 5x5 said:

I don't recall any mention of pressure from parents, yet looking the part and not wanting to turn up to events without a partner seems to be a common theme. 

I feel like this is still the case a lot of the time...in an unspoken way. Like office parties (when we used to have them, anyway) or class reunions (maybe slightly less so but not by much). There's an expectation that if you don't have a spouse, you should at least be able to secure a date.  I think sometimes people bring just friends. But I do think it's getting less "weird" to fly solo as the years go by.

[CaliforniaGirl]

7 hours ago, Azincourt said:

So the guy is 40 years old and he hangs out with 50 year olds, and he's looking for a 25 year old woman.

Who is still in her 20s, and interacts and deals mostly with men who are her own age, younger, and slightly older.

What would have have in common with a woman that young'? Or even with a 30 year old woman when his social circles is made up entirely of people who are 15 years away from retirement.

That would be nearly impossible to pull off.

Young women will date a man who is 5 years older, 10 years older ,even 15 years older if HE looks GOOD, if he had a baby face when he was 18 and aged remarkably well due to having no mortggage to pay for, no debt to deal with, and no wife/kids to take care of, a guy who has never smoked in his life, doesn't consume alcohol, doesn't intake sugar, chocolate, only eats healthy, and uses skin-care products, and also has kept a thick full head of hair.

Obviously most men aged 30-35 don't fill this bill, let alone men who are 40+ years old,  making it extremely hard for a guy that picky to get what he wants.

Besides, dating a woman much younger than you, even if she thinks you are younger than her is going to be awkward. 

You have 2 options:

A) Lie to her and say you're like 30 years old and then face losing the relationship when she begins to feel she can't trust you if you lie about this.

B) Gonna  be real  awkward when you meet her parents and you realize you are only 5 to 10 years younger than your girlfriend's parents, and her parents will think you're a creepy.

Besides, a guy who is just getting started in the dating world shouldn't go and try to reach for the best the dating world has to offer. Those women are in high demand. Unless you're lucky enough to live in a state/city/Country where there are far more women living there than there are men: hot 25 years old won't lower their standards because they don't have to.

To a reasonably large extent this seems to be true, at least by the numbers. The overwhelming majority of marrieds at least (I don't know about just dating, I think those numbers are a lot harder to track) marry within 7 years of one another and the largest part of that is within 5 years. ETA: Sorry, should have mentioned I'm talking about the U.S. I don't know about other countries in this regard.

People tend to gravitate toward similarities and age seems to be one of those things, a lot of the time. There are exceptions and those will tell you age is just a number. For them specifically - and probably the specific person - that is probably true. For me and most women I know, we feel there's something just a little off dating a whole different generation. It feels just a little bit like there's a wall there. Separation. It's also for many of us weird to date someone of our parents' generation, with those references and even a speaking style and so on. Not so much consciously as a general feeling.

And yes, like it or not, looks often have something to do with it.

Edited September 8, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[Azincourt]

Quote

I feel like this is still the case a lot of the time...in an unspoken way. Like office parties (when we used to have them, anyway) or class reunions (maybe slightly less so but not by much). There's an expectation that if you don't have a spouse, you should at least be able to secure a date.  I think sometimes people bring just friends. But I do think it's getting less "weird" to fly solo as the years go by.

It happens a lot. Everywhere around the world. Parents want to be grandparents, and they look at their adult children and they see they have a good job,  causing them to start nagging their offspring to give them some grandsons, and many people will get married and have kids either to appease their own parents or because society expects people to have kids.

It's not just limited to parents and grandparents wanting their blood to have children. Every time I come across a friend of my mother's or my grandmother's, the first question coming out of their aging lips is: '' you married yet?''

When I say nope, they start talking about introducing me to their daughters or grandaughters. Lady, I'm a bartender. shoo, shoo go away. I ain't affording a family on a bartender's salary even if I wanted to have a family.

Quote

To a reasonably large extent this seems to be true, at least by the numbers. The overwhelming majority of marrieds at least (I don't know about just dating, I think those numbers are a lot harder to track) marry within 7 years of one another and the largest part of that is within 5 years.

Yes!

My father is 3 years older than my mother. My 2 sets of grandparents are 5 to 7 years apart in age.  Very few marriages happen to couples with a 10 years gap between them, what do I even have in common with these 21 year olds? Oh, right. Linkin Park. They got big  when I was a teen. Everyone loves Linkin Park.

Quote

People tend to gravitate toward similarities and age seems to be one of those things, a lot of the time. There are exceptions and those will tell you age is just a number. For them specifically - and probably the specific person - that is probably true. For me and most women I know, we feel there's something just a little off dating a whole different generation. It feels just a little bit like there's a wall there. Separation.

For sure. It even feels off to me to date women who are 10 years younger,  but most women my own age are either looking for marriage/co-habitation/babies, and I'm as into that as Oprah is into giving all of her money to charity.

Quote

And yes, like it or not, looks often have something to do with it.

Quote

 

That's what I keep telling young men. Lift hard. Fix your teeth. Get a hair transplant if you are balding.  Get plastic surgery if you ain't happy with your chin or jawline. Almost everything can be solved with money and a good surgeon doctor, if he has something to work on with.  

[CaliforniaGirl]

9 minutes ago, Azincourt said:

 

My father is 3 years older than my mother. My 2 sets of grandparents are 5 to 7 years apart in age.  Very few marriages happen to couples with a 10 years gap between them, what do I even have in common with these 21 year olds? Oh, right. Linkin Park. They got big  when I was a teen. Everyone loves Linkin Park.

 

Oh my God! I am falling down laughing because my husband is lisetning to Linkin Park. As in, right now. As I read your post and then type this response. Not even lying, LOL.

I do love Linkin Park and I remember my son loving them years ago...

My husband and I are in our 50s. My oldest son is now in his 30s.

[ZA Dater]

10 hours ago, 5x5 said:

I don't recall any mention of pressure from parents, yet looking the part and not wanting to turn up to events without a partner seems to be a common theme. 

I have for the most part overcome this problem by either not going to the event, going and not staying at the event for too long, going and putting my business mind on or in terms of social most of the time the social events I do are hobby type events and because I arrange them I just hire my friend as help and she comes along so I do sort of have a date. Which is fine, its better than going on my own and she actually enjoys the events and I enjoy her company.

[ZA Dater]

10 hours ago, 5x5 said:

He hasn't had a girlfriend and has said has never had sex with someone in his life.

I'm not convinced, he desires any sex at all, so I don't get why he bothers trying to date.

Trust me I certainly don't desire someone I don't find attractive. Why on earth would I want to sleep with someone overweight and unattractive, if that's the option I have, well I'd rather not. I have had the odd date I did want to sleep with but they aren't ever interested in me in that way.

I bring logic to almost everything, its why I can play with numbers, stretch budgets, make things work but where this fails is logic implies removing emotions so sure I can have a conversation with someone but my objective really is to only have a nice conversation and nothing more. I have had conversations with really attractive people before but I know I am not their cup of tea so the best I can look to get out of it is

1: leaving a good impression by being a good person, showing good manners, taking an interest in them and the conversation.

2: enjoying the conversation myself with no expectations of anything else.

However I look at men who are taking these ladies home and what I see is bundles of charm, equally many lies and some superb nonsense acting a lot of the time. Acting is at odd with how I thing, I am very honest, when people want honesty I am the person they generally ask. I don't major in BS either.

I do desire affection, someone who is interested in me, someone I can share things with, someone I can experience things with, someone I can take an interest in but to be honest it would seem I need about 5 or 6 different people to try and tick those boxes not one person.

[basil67]

1 hour ago, ZA Dater said:

However I look at men who are taking these ladies home and what I see is bundles of charm, equally many lies and some superb nonsense acting a lot of the time. Acting is at odd with how I thing, I am very honest, when people want honesty I am the person they generally ask. I don't major in BS either.

 

And we're back at the point where you don't understand that most of us have multifaceted personalities and we work with whatever is appropriate at the time.   The fact that you don't understand it doesn't mean that it's either acting or BS.    And for what it's worth, one can still be very honest in any of the ways they choose to present.

[Trail Blazer]

12 hours ago, Azincourt said:

He wants instant results. I might be wrong but I feel that he wants to get a hot girlfriend just for the sake of having someone that hot to be seen with, like an accomplishment trophy, and he's not really all that interested in spending time with her, or in getting to know her. I'm not sure about this, but he has never had a girlfriend, and he doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who is willing to put in the work and the necessary conversation to bring a woman home with him for the night, so he might not even be sexually active, and when when a guy really wants to have sex, he'll work something out.

Either he'll lower his standards to make sure he'll get a woman to sleep with him, like I've personally done many a time,  or he'll pay for it.  I'm sure he can afford a trip to the state of Nevada, the Bunn ranch, and get it over with, so sex might not even be an issue. Maybe he just wants a trophy girlfriend/wife.

He doesn't want to go on dates, he doesn't want to spend time with women talking about what those women like to talk about. He doesn't want to do the activities these women are a fan of. He doesn't want to lower his standards to something more realistic.  And he expects to be treated like a rockstar by hot women.

He doesn't want to bother with anything that takes him away from his daily routine. He just wants a hot woman with all of the positive characteristics and charming personality to her, that every guy is looking for in a woman, he wants women who are almost 20 years younger than him, and in return he's willing to give them absolutely nothing.

Can I buy a house without money?

The only thing he's seemingly got is money, but even then, he expects her to have her own anyway.  So, his perceived wealth must still be matched (or close) to his.

I think where ZA goes wrong, is that he has this delusion that when he finds this mythical unicorn lady who does in fact get off on discussing world politics and the financial review, he won't have to actually make effort.

@ZA Dater my girl and I get along amazingly well, we clicked from the first date.  We share some common intetests, but we also have many different things we enjoy.  We are ultimately compatible, not through mutual interests, but through emotional connection. 

I know you think that stuff is hocus pocus, but seriously, dude, if you're to ever have a meaningful relationship, you need to understand about human connection.  I am not sure that you truly do.

 

[Weezy1973]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Why on earth would I want to sleep with someone overweight and unattractive, if that's the option I have, well I'd rather not. I have had the odd date I did want to sleep with but they aren't ever interested in me in that way.

Yes. Not sure how many times you have to hear it or say it yourself to sink in. You’ve created a world in your head where there are only those two options. And therefore you’re guaranteed never to get into a relationship. 

 

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

However I look at men who are taking these ladies home and what I see is bundles of charm, equally many lies and some superb nonsense acting a lot of the time.

Why are you making this a rule about the world? This is almost guaranteed to be referencing your one friend who happens to be a player. Why do you want to be with women that want to be with guys like that in the first place?

 

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I do desire affection, someone who is interested in me, someone I can share things with, someone I can experience things with, someone I can take an interest in but to be honest it would seem I need about 5 or 6 different people to try and tick those boxes not one person.

So again you’ve set up the world in your head so you’ll fail no matter what. Read the quote above and tell us you’re not being unrealistic. 

[ZA Dater]

15 hours ago, basil67 said:

And we're back at the point where you don't understand that most of us have multifaceted personalities and we work with whatever is appropriate at the time.   The fact that you don't understand it doesn't mean that it's either acting or BS.    And for what it's worth, one can still be very honest in any of the ways they choose to present.

Acting and deception are very different things and what I see most of is the latter and very little of the former.

[ZA Dater]

14 hours ago, Trail Blazer said:

The only thing he's seemingly got is money, but even then, he expects her to have her own anyway.  So, his perceived wealth must still be matched (or close) to his.

I think where ZA goes wrong, is that he has this delusion that when he finds this mythical unicorn lady who does in fact get off on discussing world politics and the financial review, he won't have to actually make effort.

@ZA Dater my girl and I get along amazingly well, we clicked from the first date.  We share some common intetests, but we also have many different things we enjoy.  We are ultimately compatible, not through mutual interests, but through emotional connection. 

I know you think that stuff is hocus pocus, but seriously, dude, if you're to ever have a meaningful relationship, you need to understand about human connection.  I am not sure that you truly do.

 

Sure, I get it, people can connect, I never said that couldn't but then either one seemingly connects superficially or emotionally. Important thing is how much WORK do you have to put in to click, in my view none, you either do or you don't. If you need to fundamentally change your thinking to click with someone then I'd argue you don't click with them at all.

You need to understand I look around me and its just throw away mentality and I too am guilty of that to some extent. Be in no doubt I have found unicorns before but it never ever works, albeit I have found very few of them. It doesn't work for just the reason you mention, no connection at all but again why must I put in all the effort? I do try but if someone cannot be bothered to ask me anything about myself then I just completely lose interest.

[ZA Dater]

14 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

Yes. Not sure how many times you have to hear it or say it yourself to sink in. You’ve created a world in your head where there are only those two options. And therefore you’re guaranteed never to get into a relationship. 

 

Why are you making this a rule about the world? This is almost guaranteed to be referencing your one friend who happens to be a player. Why do you want to be with women that want to be with guys like that in the first place?

 

So again you’ve set up the world in your head so you’ll fail no matter what. Read the quote above and tell us you’re not being unrealistic. 

Again which other options are there? Its either I like them or I don't, there is no middle ground after all this is exactly what women do to me so why should I not do the same, there is no middle ground with me so why should I bother investing in someone I don't find interesting or attractive. I once went out with someone really smart and nice but it was a pity she was so physically un attractive no amount of personality wow could fix that.

The reality is LOTS of women want to be with my friend attractive ones, intelligent ones, ambitious ones and then I look at my OLD profile and the sort of people who like me....just no.

I am not being unrealistic because I have met more than one person with exactly those qualities, that's the point I am making, none of this is made up, what I like it based on people I have actually met and interacted with.

[ZA Dater]

On ‎9‎/‎8‎/‎2020 at 1:17 PM, Azincourt said:

 

Besides, a guy who is just getting started in the dating world shouldn't go and try to reach for the best the dating world has to offer. Those women are in high demand. Unless you're lucky enough to live in a state/city/Country where there are far more women living there than there are men: hot 25 years old won't lower their standards because they don't have to.

Who exactly should he be looking for? I once got told by a date "you need experience you need to find someone as inexperienced at dating as you", she was 38 for what its worth.

SO basically you simply advocate the "well I don't like her or find her attractive but she is best I can do and lets just use her go on a few dates to get dating experience and hopefully move onto someone better". This to me is ridiculous and not something I would do.

You make my point for me in the above NO MATTER what someone like me will never really be able to get anyone they find attractive because well there are better options, that's the point I am making you can do whatever but your options still remain largely the same.

Its how to expand those options realistically while asking oneself why said person would want to date you/hook up with you. I ask myself that question daily. When I ask that question I then look at guys who can do this and then I look at me and yes well to be honest I am nothing like them so the fact I get nowhere isn't surprising. So when I see that attractive blond walking down the street I mostly just walk past and say nothing, why because when I compare myself to what she can get there is no reason to pick me.

The way I see it you need to give them a reason to pick you over the rest and to be honest I don't see there ever being a reason why I should be chosen based on the qualities I have compared to my friends who are successful. I am never going to have enough charm to be the player they are but I always thought there was enough good about me to have a reasonable chance of going out with someone I do find attractive.

Apparently not.

 

 

[Weezy1973]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Again which other options are there? Its either I like them or I don't, there is no middle ground...

This is the reality you’ve created. A black and white world. The real world is shades of gray. All sorts of different levels of initial attraction and all sorts of ways that attraction can change with time. I will acknowledge that for most people there is a minimum baseline, but that’s extremely different from needing to be “Wowed” on a first date. 

 

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

...after all this is exactly what women do to me so why should I not do the same...

Because it isn’t working for you? Why continue doing what doesn’t work? Also what other people do is irrelevant. 

 

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

I am not being unrealistic...

You literally said it would take five or six women to tick all the boxes of what you’re looking for. Your expectations are unrealistic.

@ZA Dater, I can almost guarantee that if you actually do get second date or develop a meaningful relationship with a woman, it won’t be with someone that made you go “wow” right off the bat. It will be someone that you find averagely attractive to start, and as you get to know them over time, your attraction to them will grow. You have to at least open your mind to that possibility for it to happen though. And at this point your mind is closed on the subject, so you will continue to fail.

[Azincourt]

2 hours ago, ZA Dater said:

Again which other options are there? Its either I like them or I don't, there is no middle ground after all this is exactly what women do to me so why should I not do the same, there is no middle ground with me so why should I bother investing in someone I don't find interesting or attractive. I once went out with someone really smart and nice but it was a pity she was so physically un attractive no amount of personality wow could fix that.

The reality is LOTS of women want to be with my friend attractive ones, intelligent ones, ambitious ones and then I look at my OLD profile and the sort of people who like me....just no.

I am not being unrealistic because I have met more than one person with exactly those qualities, that's the point I am making, none of this is made up, what I like it based on people I have actually met and interacted with.

People in the dating world are faced with two options. They either take what is offered, or they decide they don't like their options and they find something else to do. Reading, writing books, taking the dog for long walks, scuba diving,  portrait painting, garderning, and the list goes on.

Ideally every guy would have a 19 year old Miss Turkey and every woman would have her very own version of what a gorgeous/educated/kind/good father of the perfect match is, but most people won't ever be in a position to be as picky as Prince William can  be, and still people find suitable matches.

No one is telling you to date a woman you don't find interesting or attractive. You don't suffer from a terminal illness that can only be fixed by getting a girlfriend. You don't have to date someone you feel doesn't bring much to the table, because if you don't date her the world will end. 

You don't have to date. You can be happy being single. This isn't the 19th century where dudes who were bachelors had to pay the bachelor tax and were looked at by society at large with wierd glances.

If you go out on a date with a woman and you find her to be really smart and nice, and you think she has a great personality,  but you don't want to date her because you consider her to very physically unattractive. 

Have you never considered the possibility that the reason you can't get a beautiful young woman to date you might have to do with her finding you to be very physically unattractive for whatever reasons she might find you physically unappealing for?

Do you want a woman to date you, a woman who doesn't want to have sex with you, a woman who doesn't want to even touch you, just because she's young and hot and she'd look good hanging on your arm?

What's the point of being in a romantic relationship, on a personal level, with a beautiful young woman if she will never have sex with you?

Maybe, if you were to date women who are average(unless you consider average-looking to be very unattractive?) in looks things would be a lot better for you?

Quote

The reality is LOTS of women want to be with my friend attractive ones, intelligent ones, ambitious ones and then I look at my OLD profile and the sort of people who like me....just no.

 

Yes, attractive people have more options. What's so groundbreaking about that? 

if the women you want want your friends who are attractive, you make yourself attractive. Teeth-whitening procedures, braces, you get a hair transplant if your hair is thinning, you get plastic surgery to get a decent chin and jawline going, and you do whatever else to make yourself more physically attractive.

If the women you are after want men who are intelligent, then you go to the library and you read up on French philosophy, on mercantilism, on the constitution, on any subject that women find to be interesting and smart.

Become ambitious, then. Make your first million dollars before the age of 50. Start a company. Build-up a business. Do something profitable for your community. No one and nothing is stopping you from  becoming the next Jeff Bezos, man. You live in the United States of America, there's plenty of opportunity for that to happen.

Jay-z never graduated from high school, and many others are the same way, and the guy is a billionaire.

 

Edited September 9, 2020 by Azincourt