Mother Girlfriend issue

[Helsing001]

Hi,

 

Let's start by describing my mother. In 2012 when I got my first job she was fired and since then till 2018 she never worked again. She asked me to pay the bills and buy for groceries. I got into fights with her but never got anywhere. In 2018 I moved in a rented apartment with my girlfriend. After I insisted a lot, my mother got a part time job (4 hours a day) which didn't earn her a lot of money. Still, she didn't want to pay for bills or groceries, but kept asking me money. I was very upset and when my gf, who didn't know, found out, she got very angry. One of the reason was that my mother also got a lot of holidays, trips to other countries etc. She even told me at some point she saves her salary for these holidays. I thought a lot about this and decided to give my mother a small amount of money, monthly just to cover her bills. My gf at that time thought it was a good idea. My mother got very angry though, didn't talk to us for some some days, but then agreed. Still, somehow she managed to continue going on some trips, one very expensive even. I never actually got upset for this because I considered me giving her that small amount of money monthly as a proof of love, as she raised me up. So I was actually glad that we settled this and she still manages to go on trips, if this is what makes her happy.

 

A week ago me and my gf started making plans for buying our own apartment. I don't remember how we got to talk about my mother. My gf asked if I still give money to my mother. She remembered me saying I will only give her money until she founds a solution to earn her own living. I told her that I don't remember this and I'm ok with giving her these money as she is my mother and I love her. I then got very sick for a week and my gf didn't say anything anymore.

 

Yesterday, my gf was supposedly at the gym, when I got this email from her. A very long email tellling me how she feels frustrated knowing I'm thinking about always sending money to my mother. How it's not right that she always goes on trips but asks me for money. How she never saves money for when she needs to buy meds and always me or other relatives have to help her. All in all, she told me she realisez she couldn't stay with me in this situation. I called her, made her come home again and begged her to give me a chance to talk to my mother, maybe my grand parents and find a solution so that I don't give her money monthly. She agreed in the end.

 

I read other discussions about helping parents. A lot of people do this. Is my gf right? Or maybe she feels jealousy on my mother and it shouldn't be there?

I feel trapped. To be honest with you, I don't agree with neither of them. I feel that my mother keeps me chained to her by asking for this money. I feel that my gf doesn't feel the love that people usually fell about their parents (she usually visits her parents once every 5-6 months, when they are under 2 hours drive from us).

 

What should I do?

[schlumpy]

If your mother was sick or in dire need I could understand you supporting her but from what you write it seems as if she doesn't want to support herself. I concede a part-time job is a concession on her part but only a small one. What happens if on one of her trips she has an accident. Will she be coming to live with you? You are like a backup plan. She does what she wants and manipulates you for money but what are you getting out of it?

I can understand your GF disapproves but she is only your GF. Next year it could be a different GF with strong family ties that insists you help your mother or she will leave you.

I think you are at a good compromise. You only send her what you can. Emotional ties can be very motivating and can torture us if we ignore them.

I don't see you changing, so the next best thing is to compromise with your GF. Work extra hours or a part-time job to make up the money. If that doesn't sound practical then find another GF that feels that family is uber alles.

But then you might have to send money to her mother too!🙂

[d0nnivain]

It's none of your GF's business how you spend your money.  If she doesn't like it, she doesn't have to date you but she can't tell you what to do.  IMO a good child helps a parent even when the parent makes poor money decisions.  If the money doesn't impoverish you & it makes you happy to help your mom, keep helping your mom.  DH & I bought a house so his mom has a place to live; she still makes horrible financial choices.  

[Helsing001]

5 minutes ago, schlumpy said:

If your mother was sick or in dire need I could understand you supporting her but from what you write it seems as if she doesn't want to support herself. I concede a part-time job is a concession on her part but only a small one. What happens if on one of her trips she has an accident. Will she be coming to live with you? You are like a backup plan. She does what she wants and manipulates you for money but what are you getting out of it?

I can understand your GF disapproves but she is only your GF. Next year it could be a different GF with strong family ties that insists you help your mother or she will leave you.

I think you are at a good compromise. You only send her what you can. Emotional ties can be very motivating and can torture us if we ignore them.

I don't see you changing, so the next best thing is to compromise with your GF. Work extra hours or a part-time job to make up the money. If that doesn't sound practical then find another GF that feels that family is uber alles.

But then you might have to send money to her mother too!🙂

Thanks, schlumpy, I can understand perfectly every word you said.

What is somehow frustrating is that I earn a lot of money. I'm currently sending to my mother around 3% of what I earn in a month. I don't even need to work extra hours.

But my gf is angry on the situation, not on the exact amount of money. She is angry that my mother isn't independent. She told me she would even approve the money if indeed my mother tried everything but was left with no money in the end.

I even told my gf, if it was the opposite I would send this money to her mother without ever questioning. 

Me and my gf love each other so much. We never ever get into fights except related to my mother. On the other hand, we have such different views regarding to family ties. 

And my mother is so incapable of having her own life, totally separated than mine.

[schlumpy]

This is a personal issue with your GF. She may feel she is protecting you. Many people in this world have been taken advantage of by relatives that didn't understand that money doesn't grow on trees.

Is there anyway that your GF can get to know your mother on a personal level? If she likes her she may come around to your way of thinking.

Would your GF be open to counseling where she could delve into why she feels so strongly about this action on your part, especially since you can afford it and it isn't her money?

It may be the best way to approach it since you are very connected to your GF. I think she can modify her way thinking easier then you can.

[Helsing001]

21 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

It's none of your GF's business how you spend your money.  If she doesn't like it, she doesn't have to date you but she can't tell you what to do.  IMO a good child helps a parent even when the parent makes poor money decisions.  If the money doesn't impoverish you & it makes you happy to help your mom, keep helping your mom.  DH & I bought a house so his mom has a place to live; she still makes horrible financial choices.  

Thanks, I totally relate to stories like yours. I would too buy a house for her mother if I could and if she needed one. I

What I give to my mother doesn't impoverish me, that is actually the first thing that I argued to my gf the first time we ever got into a fight because of this issue. I'm quite relieved to see other people saying this as from the discussions with my gf I was left thinking that maybe I'm the one with a strange mind.

[Helsing001]

9 minutes ago, schlumpy said:

This is a personal issue with your GF. She may feel she is protecting you. Many people in this world have been taken advantage of by relatives that didn't understand that money doesn't grow on trees.

Is there anyway that your GF can get to know your mother on a personal level? If she likes her she may come around to your way of thinking.

Would your GF be open to counseling where she could delve into why she feels so strongly about this action on your part, especially since you can afford it and it isn't her money?

It may be the best way to approach it since you are very connected to your GF. I think she can modify her way thinking easier then you can.

Well, that's another problem. As my mother lives at a 15 min drive from us, I usually visit her at least once every 2 weeks and most of the time I bring my gf with me.

So they know each other well. And my gf doesn't like anything related to my mother. Doesn't like how she talks too loud, how she gets upset immediately when she doesn't agree with something, how she feels like she only takes advantage of me. I'm pretty sure it is a personal issue that my gf is having with my mom.

Just yesterday I thought about counseling. I would agree with it. I'm sure a counselor could open my mind, as I'm inside of this whole issue and I can't see things objectively. But my gf has this way of always thinking that she is 100% right and doesn't need anyone's advice (very like my mother) that I'm sure she wouldn't agree.

Actually coming to think about it I believe my gf and my mother have a lot in common.. for example, my gf always asks for little gifts, but if I sum them up monthly, they surely cost more than what I give to my mother.

Don't want to seem like I am on my mother's side. When I got into a fight with my mother because she didn't want to have a job or when she wanted me to pay for everything, I for sure thought my mother isn't right. But in this case, I feel like we had already agreed on this small amount of money I'm sending to her. So I feel like I break a promise by telling her now that if she doesn't find a way of making her own money, then I will not be able to help her anymore. I feel like my gf somehow provoked this whole fight as everything was balanced and everyone (except my gf it seems) was fine with the deal. Does it make sense?

[d0nnivain]

47 minutes ago, Helsing001 said:

from the discussions with my gf I was left thinking that maybe I'm the one with a strange mind.

Good news:  we're right 

Bad news:  we have strange minds because we do stuff like this

 

Your GF is trying to pull you away from your mom.  That says a lot about your GF.  Even if she doesn't like your mom, she still has to respect that your mom is your mom & a part of your life.  If your GF doesn't care for your mom's company, your GF doesn't have to come on your visits.  You have to be OK with the amount of time your GF wants to spend with your mom but as long as you can accept your GF's pace, that should be fine. . . some compromise around holidays but otherwise they don't have to be BFFs.  

The fact that your GF "asks" for gifts is a problem.  

[Timshel]

11 hours ago, Helsing001 said:

I then got very sick for a week and my gf didn't say anything anymore.

I feel trapped. To be honest with you, I don't agree with neither of them. I feel that my mother keeps me chained to her by asking for this money. I feel that my gf doesn't feel the love that people usually fell about their parents (she usually visits her parents once every 5-6 months, when they are under 2 hours drive from us).

What should I do?

I had to throw in the feeling sick for a week part, though rather immaterial because you said your gf sent an email 'supposedly' from the gym.

Anyway, your boundaries and relationship with your mother are separate from your relationship with your gf.  Do address what will make you feel comfortable with your mother, this is important and should be established, you should not feel chained.  If there are agreeable terms that you will commit to with your mom then establish these regardless whom you are dating.

As far as your gf is concerned, imo, RUN.  You have met a woman who is using the power of the P and by far overstepping boundaries.  A girlfriend or wife may not care for her SO's family, however, Grace is a trait that should not be overlooked.  She may stay home rather than visit your mom; and most certainly she should not interfere with a relationship that will someday be a memory and preceded your relationship with her.  This will not get better.  RUN.

 

[Helsing001]

16 hours ago, Timshel said:

This will not get better.  RUN.

 

Everything was so good between us. Imagine that we never fight, we love to do the same things, everyone says we are such a beautiful couple. We've been together for 3  and have plans to buy our own place to call it home.

Running away is hard and I still hope for a better course of action. Honestly, it's so strange that when I got into a fight with her last time (when my mother still expected me to pay for everything after she got a job) I posted on a similar forum because my feelings were exactly like I felt in the answers here and I wanted a confirmation: that I need to address my concerns with my mother, but my gf should not intervene so drastically and so angry in this relationship between me and my mother. Most of the replies I got then told me that it's normal what my gf does, that I need to learn to be more independent from my mother etc I concluded I am the one not right and I tried to listen more to my gf. Now, I'm getting exactly the kind of feedback I was sure I was going to get back then but now it's harder to take a decisive approach. I love my gf, I love our relationship, just a week ago we were looking for a home.

Yesterday I talked to my gf again, I told her about counseling, her first reaction was that we need to solve our issues by ourselves, but after some more talking she agreed we might take this action at some point. She also told me almost crying that if my mother is sick or anything, of course it's normal to help her, that she's only talking about monthly money. She told me that in the end it's important that I'm happy with the outcome, that she only suffers for me. This actually made me a little angry because it's what she told me last time. Last time, she was angry that my mother was asking for money. I got the idea of me giving her this small amount of money. This was my decision and I was happy with the outcome. Now she told me this again but it seems to me it's her that's not happy with the outcome.

And I never insisted here about how strange I found to receive an email from her. Think about getting along very nicely with someone and loving them and then getting a very long email titled 'Sorry that I left'. Inside she said she didn't leave for good, just for some hours to take some air and think of things. What did I do to deserve such treatment? She apologized afterwards, promised she will talk to me face to face in the future etc But I still find it very hard to forget / forgive this behavior..

This whole thing reminds me of something I read just yesterday: that sometimes it's harder to let go than to hold on.

[Pumaza]

if she is not your wife, its your money !!

but your mom need to get welfare or a sugar daddy.

your job is not to provide for her unless thats the only option in a poor country or so.your mom looks like she got lazy,and wont get a real job.

your gf may be right on some things.

even if you breakup, consider few of her points. you need to make a plan with your mom about how long you gonna help help her. maybe 2 more months.?!

let her know you got plans to.and the trips she makes is for people that work.

A mom shouldnt leech her kids.You sure can help your mom,but not be her provider if she can work and is spending money on trips.

You young get your happiness!Rather its with this girl or a other.

Crazy how your mom dont ask her own parents,but ask you.

Your mom getting a job will help het socialize, money, indipendent, and get herself toghster,and relieve for you and your family.

How old are the 3 of you?

 

[schlumpy]

If you want to keep this girl then counseling is your only hope and you should push it. I'm suspicious that there is something she doesn't want to confront or talk about and that is what made her refuse the offer. It seems obvious after this period of time that this issue will not be resolved between you two unless you wish to capitulate.

She has to come to terms with what you are doing or she has to let you go.

Get her into individual counseling. If there is progress, then you can join in later.

[Helsing001]

59 minutes ago, Pumaza said:

How old are the 3 of you?

 

I am 30, my gf 26 and my mother 57.

[dangerous]

3% of income is not a lot, so that doesn't seem like a problem.

Your Mum being lazy and demanding is a problem.

Your GF is also not behaving well.

You are too weak and indecisive about all this and you need to become strong in yourself and tell both woman what you think is right. And then do it, regardless of what they demand. 

 

[Ruby Slippers]

Supporting someone who spends money on non-essentials and luxuries like vacations instead of essentials like bills is called enabling. It's akin to giving a drunk a drink. Essentially, you're rewarding her for being irresponsible with money and reinforcing the bad behavior.

I agree with your girlfriend that this is unhealthy and problematic. As your mother ages, it will likely only get worse as her health declines and she tries to sponge more and more money from you.

It doesn't matter how great your relationship with your girlfriend is. Since you and your mother have this unhealthy codependency, it will continue to affect your relationship for the worse until you establish some healthy boundaries.

[d0nnivain]

It is enabling but she's still his mother.  

[Ruby Slippers]

Enabling is a form of codependency, not love. Continuing the alcohol analogy, supplying his mother with bottles of vodka is not love. Participating in this toxic exchange is only hurting her, keeping her in a state of weakness and dependency. She could get a full-time job and pay her own bills, save and invest for her retirement. If she's able-bodied enough to take expensive vacations, she's able-bodied enough to work and support herself. Not only would this empower her, it would also liberate her son to live his own life and invest in his future. No decent woman will marry a man who's enmeshed in this codependent mess with mommy.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Ruby Slippers

[schlumpy]

I think there is a cultural influence going on here Ruby. That makes it a bit different for him.

[spiderowl]

Any decent person would want to take care of their mother if they could. She is rather demanding, which is not good, she should not take advantage of him.  That aside, it seems your girlfriend is just as demanding and selfish. She sees your mother as a rival for something, whether it is your affection or money is hard to know.

If you have spare money and can afford to help your mother, then it is not up to your girlfriend. Maybe something else is going on here, maybe she fears if you lost your job or something, you would prioritise your mother over your relationship with her. She does not have a good relationship with her own parents so I would not trust her judgement on what a mother-child relationship should be like. 

If you want to stay with her, then counselling might help you both. It might also be worth looking at other older parent-child relationships - maybe talk to your friends about it, just to get an idea of what they do/try to do for their parents, bearing in mind that circumstances vary and some people are more independent than others.

[Wiseman2]

Are you from different cultures? You seem to have quite different views regarding family ties.

[Wiseman2]

Don't buy a home together until you are able to cut the apron strings. Stop forcing your mother on your gf.

[Ruby Slippers]

On 7/15/2020 at 3:03 AM, Helsing001 said:

I feel trapped. I feel that my mother keeps me chained to her by asking for this money.

This is a clear sign of unhealthy codependency, a parasite-host relationship. If this were a healthy situation, he wouldn't feel chained. 

His gf sees the writing on the wall. Given that his mother is this lazy and entitled at 57 while she's able-bodied enough to travel and work to support herself, it's only going to get worse as she gets older, as she drains more and more money from her son, money that should be going to his own family (wife and kids) and their future/retirement.

[Helsing001]

Sorry for not saying anything in the last 2 weeks. It's hard to believe, but the reason of my sickness I mentioned in the first post was actually the new coronavirus disease.. and a lot of my relatives cought it, including my gf and my mother. Fortunately, we are all fine and we all got negative tests in the last days, so we are past it now.

Leave that aside, I agree there might be cultural differences, but I can say that what all of you wrote here are things I might also expect from my friends. All the answers seem right somehow.But anyway, I am from Romania.

No, there are no cultural differences between me and my gf. She has a twin sister. A lot of times she told me she is independent from her mother because most of the love goes for her sister. I always found that to be weird, as the two don't exclude each other, but I feel it might explain her not being so attached to her mother. Also, her father has some troubles with alchool, he lost his job recently because of it and sometimes I feel like he sees his father's mistakes in my mother.

What Ruby says about my gf seeing the writing on the wall I think explains perfectly the reason why my gf is acting this way. Still, I promised her a lot of times that I am trying to find a way to make my mother less dependent on me and that financially it will never affect us. In my opinion, as long as this mother issue is not directly affecting our relantionship (e.g. financially, or time consuming etc), she should not get mad and maybe, in a perfect world, even help me with tips etc I'm afraid that what spiderowl says is true and she sees my mother as a rival. For example, once or twice she reproached me that when we first moved together I was still paying the bills for my mother when she (my gf) had a very small salary and was very hard for her to pay her own bills and she didn't find this fair. To my defense, I always do the groceries 100% from my money, so this alone kind of makes up for the bills, as we do a lot of groceries  And anyway, even the small salary my gf had then is still around 3 times the amount my mother is earning.

Only 2 days after our last fight, she started showing love to me again. She said sorry for a lot of things she said in the email. Even told me delete the email. Just told me to talk to my mother as she trust me to make her understand that she needs to be more independent from me. She even restarted making plans about our apartment and for a future trip. Last week she searched for a cake to buy for my grandmother, who was very sick due to covid but has recovered and is well now. She's back to being the lovely girl I know. It's like she's having this emotional crisis from time to time when she gets angry, cries and says awful things, most of the times regarding my mother and then she is through and back to normal.

I don't know what to believe or do. I believe I have 2 separate problems, one with my mother and one with my gf and I realise I need to have a serious talk with both of them. Now that I'm out of isolation, I will do that and see where it goes..

[curlygirl40]

I think when someone loves someone, it's hard for them to watch them be taken advantage of.  And that is what she sees.    You might not see it that way, but she sees it that way.  And she loves you so it's hard for her to watch.   

Yes I do think you should take care of your family IF it doesn't put a strain on you financially so you can't pay your own bills, etc.   If she were ill, it would be a different story I guess, we do what we have to do.   But IMO she is taking advantage of you.   Like another poster said, if she's able to travel, etc. she's able bodied enough to work.  But she doesn't want to work.  She has a nice little arrangement there.  

With your gf, I suspect she's making it about the money but it's not as much about the money as it is being worried about hitching her wagon onto you because of the situation.  You've been together a long time and you're making plans for the future.   And she can see the writing on the wall and she knows that your future will include always dishing money out to your mother.    

I understand why you are helping and if it is 3%, it's not a lot of money and it doesn't leave you not being able to pay your bills or enjoy your own life.    But the fact that you're giving any money to someone who just doesn't want to work is probably hard for her to fathom.   

You need to have an honest discussion with your gf and hash this out before you buy a place together.   Don't push it under the rug and then when it comes up again in a year, she may rewrite history and say that she thought you stopped giving her money, etc., etc. and this will boil up again.    Explain why you feel you need to help your mom, that it makes you feel good, she raised you and you want her to be able to enjoy her life.  Yes you know she's a bit irresponsible to not work and expect money from you, but that you are o.k with it and you will continue, etc.     Make sure she knows that you don't feel taken advantage of, that you have decided to do this for your mother and it will not affect your financial future with your gf who is likely your future wife if you are discussing buying a place together.   Making assumptions here.    

Maybe if you explain some of how you're feeling she will understand it more and not feel as much like you're doing it out of duress and then she'll feel more comfortable  with the situation.   

[Ruby Slippers]

It's great that you recognize this is an issue, rather than denying it.

In these cases, it's usually not the money that's the problem - it's the boundary issues. I suggest setting firm boundaries with your mother about how much you're able and willing to help and then sticking to them firmly. Communicate to your gf what the boundaries are, and then show her consistently over time that you will not be pushed or manipulated beyond them. This will give her a feeling of peace knowing that your mother's demands won't incrementally creep into your lives and wreak havoc.

I haven't read it, but I've heard good things about a book on this subject by Henry Cloud called "Boundaries."

Edited August 12, 2020 by Ruby Slippers