Is this appropriate?

[Johnson1]

Is it okay to lie to spare your partners feelings because you think they'd react negatively?

The reason I ask is because my fiance lied about a vendor who does work on one of her properties calling her to ask her out to lunch. I came home last Tuesday and she was bouncing off the walls happy for no reason, which was very strange. I asked her the next day if she had spoken with a friend or made plans with anyone that made her so happy and she said no, which was a lie. 

She turned him down this time because of Covid, but told him maybe they can make plans to go out after he gets back from a trip he's going on. I don't understand the need to meet up with someone for lunch that couldn't be handled over the phone or by him meeting her at one of her properties. Apparently she knows him pretty well because she was happy to hear from him when he called. The tone in her 'okay's' to him whenever he asked her about getting together seemed a bit on the submissive side. It could be that she was just being pleasent making him think that she would get together with him at a later date, but the question is I don't know. She did let me know that he called, after some prodding, and I asked her if he asked her out to lunch and she said no. If it's innocent in all about business why does she need to lie? 

[stillafool]

The only time a realtor has asked me to lunch is after I've already bought the property.  She's up to something.

[Johnson1]

13 hours ago, stillafool said:

The only time a realtor has asked me to lunch is after I've already bought the property.  She's up to something.

I asked her about it again this morning. She was reluctant to talk about it and got a little defensive saying 'what do you think, I'm going to F around'? I'm with you! I told her no. I just don't understand the point of  meeting with somebody that couldn't be handled over the phone. Meeting is more personal. All her managers are women. I know most of them and she talks with maintenance men who are on her sites right in front of me, so I know her rapport with them, which is all business, but guy vendors she claims she never met and who aren't in her circle of management is different. She said 'I've met with women vendors, why don't you have a problem with that'? I gave her the obvious answer as if she doesn't already know. I didn't get to talk about it as much as I wanted to because she shut me down. I feel like I'm walking on egg shells. I told her I'd just like to know who she associates with. Her answer was 'you can't know everyone I know, what are you going to do, follow me around? She did say if she ever met with a guy vendor she'd tell me, but as defensive as she gets I kinda doubt it.

[d0nnivain]

Her disproportionate level of happiness (bouncing off the walls) coupled with lying about it adds up to trouble. 

My DH is aware of  my interactions with other men.  While I enjoy their company I prefer my husband.  I also would never lie to DH about them & DH is always welcome to join us.  

You are right to be concerned.  

[kendahke]

6 hours ago, Vocals5 said:

She was reluctant to talk about it and got a little defensive saying 'what do you think, I'm going to F around'? I'm with you!

'you can't know everyone I know, what are you going to do, follow me around?

The guilty always make the most noise.

Quote

I feel like I'm walking on egg shells.

Then stop walking on egg shells--postpone the wedding plans til she starts acting more transparently.

[smackie9]

I'm gonna go against the grain here. What I see is you making a lot of assumptions and painting a picture to fit your suspicions. You didn't ask her that day specifically why she was so jubilant. Why? It would have been natural thing to do..."Wow why are you so happy today??" If she answered nothing, then you have every reason to quiz her more about it. You are only guessing why she was so happy...there is nothing to substantiate your findings.

As for going for lunch...it's just lunch with someone she knows well, she's an adult, she can go for a simple lunch with a vendor, sales person, etc can she not? or does she need to report to you? I have lunches with sales people all the time. Of course they can discuss things over the phone but it's part of doing business, and building a rapport.

You are a jealous person, and fudging your story to make it look like she is on the sly. I suspect you snoop through her phone, etc. This isn't helping you. You need to come forward and express your feelings to her about it and set reasonable boundaries that both can agree on, and have an adult discussion.

If my husband got all owly because I was having lunch with a vendor that I have know for years, I would tell him to go pound sand.

[ExpatInItaly]

Have there been trust issues in the past? 

I just wonder why your mind immediately connected the dots between her good mood and this man asking her to have lunch. Maybe they are related, and maybe not. I don't think you have enough information yet to conclude there's something amiss. It could indeed be working lunch without a romantic undertone. You detecting a submissive tone in her voice seems a bit of reach, more a product of seeing all of this through a filter of fear and anxiety.

Has she been inappropriate with other men before? 

[GoldenR]

Quote

If my husband got all owly because I was having lunch with a vendor that I have know for years, I would tell him to go pound sand.

You obviously have no boundaries nor respect for your H or your marriage.  

And how you can read his story and come up with you know that he invades her privacy, he's embellishing the story to make her look worse and he has jealousy issues is insanity in action. 

 

Edited July 20, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Rude

[d0nnivain]

Golden R -- 

Your view of Smackie is skewed . She has a great 20 year relationship from what I remember.  She & I both like men but have good boundaries inside our trusting relationships.  Power down in your criticism of her.  

Dining with a vendor is not evidence of cheating.  Face to face interactions are the best way to cement a business relationship.  

The issue here arises from the over the top exuberance coupled with the lying.  If she was simply looking forward to the lunch & was straight forward with her BF about the happening of the lunch it would all read as totally above board.   

[Mystery4u]

If she had nothing to hide she would have told you the truth. It's up to you how react to that truth, positively or negatively. It's not up to her decide, she needs to give you that choice.

[Johnson1]

On 7/16/2020 at 7:31 AM, Vocals5 said:

I asked her about it again this morning. She was reluctant to talk about it and got a little defensive saying 'what do you think, I'm going to F around'? I'm with you! I told her no. I just don't understand the point of  meeting with somebody that couldn't be handled over the phone. Meeting is more personal. All her managers are women. I know most of them and she talks with maintenance men who are on her sites right in front of me, so I know her rapport with them, which is all business, but guy vendors she claims she never met and who aren't in her circle of management is different. She said 'I've met with women vendors, why don't you have a problem with that'? I gave her the obvious answer as if she doesn't already know. I didn't get to talk about it as much as I wanted to because she shut me down. I feel like I'm walking on egg shells. I told her I'd just like to know who she associates with. Her answer was 'you can't know everyone I know, what are you going to do, follow me around? She did say if she ever met with a guy vendor she'd tell me, but as defensive as she gets I kinda doubt it.

I took your advice and mentioned to her about going with them if she ever decided to do that and she was okay with it with a smile on her face, but then when we drink and she gets incoherently drunk she brings it back up and starts a fight about me having trust issues. She's not rational when she drinks and gets nasty, but she'll tell me the next day I'm the one who starts it and gets nasty, which is total bs. Every time she gets on her Yeager Meister kick (and drink 3/4 of a huge bottle) she gets twisted and holds grudges the next day (and sometimes beyond) even though she's the one who starts it. We can't have a normal rational conversation without it turning into a full fledged fight as much as I try to be sweet. I tell her I just need to understand the necessity of it. Why does some guy need to wine and dine her just to sell her something? Why can't he just meet her and discuss it at one of her office locations? Is it that big a deal she can't do that for me if she knows I feel uneasy about it? She's totally mean, dismissive and uncaring about how I feel. Even though her lunch with this guy probably would all business, something earks me about her having lunch with some guy she's never met. She says I'm controlling. I don't know. Maybe I am. She claims I shouldn't be interfering with her job and that it's none of my business. Her feelings matter to me more than anything. If I know I know something is bothering or hurting her I happily won't do it because I love her, but she won't do the same for me. She tells me she wouldn't care if I went out to lunch with another woman if it's part of my job, but that's bs. She wouldn't show it would bother her. Instead she'd walk around being happy and take it out on me in other ways (like in the bedroom). She like showing her vulnerabilities and hides things that tick her off in her head. She has trust issues and doubts herself that come up when she drinks, but she claims she doesn't trust me because I don't trust her. When we first started going out she told me she thinks all guys are dogs and that she doesn't trust anyone, but all of a sudden now she claims she trusts me because we've been together for a while now. When she's sober she says she does and when she's drunk she doesn't. I told her I don't have tge freedom in my job that she does. I'm locked in a building with strict breaks and when I'm not at work I come straight home everyday to be with her. It would be literally impossible for me to have the time to cheat. We're tied at the hipcwhen we're not working. I would never want to. Even though she can be a real b**** who twists things around and is dismissive, I still love her.

[Johnson1]

She told me she's never met him. She's never met a vendor for lunch since we've been together (not that I know of). She has trust issues herself. She told me she does. Her dead ex of 15 years cheated on her because he thought she was cheating on him. She told me he was in love with love. I said so, what's wrong with that'? I think he cheated because he felt she didn't love him. When we first started dating she was the first one to say I don't trust you. She actually came out and said 'I love you, but I don't truat you'. I was in shock. It was all because she posted a pic of us on fb and not many of my friends liked it and she thought I had my settings set for only certain people to see it. It was nuts because I was the one pushing her to show our relationship on fb. She was reluctant to.

Edited July 19, 2020 by Vocals5

[Poutrew]

I gotta ask this: WHY do you want to marry her? Is there anything redeeming about her behavior? When she smiles and tells you one thing sober, and then gets all snarly on you when drunk, believe the drunk. She is looking forward to this meet - up because she likes this guy, and it has nothing to do with business. Dude, for your own peace and sanity, let her go. Let her sail her alcoholic ship into someone else's harbor. Find a woman who is serious about the future and not a mean drunk - you can do better than that...

[kendahke]

6 hours ago, Vocals5 said:

when we drink and she gets incoherently drunk she brings it back up and starts a fight about me having trust issues. 

She's not rational when she drinks and gets nasty, but she'll tell me the next day I'm the one who starts it and gets nasty, which is total bs. 

Quote

When we first started dating she was the first one to say I don't trust you. She actually came out and said 'I love you, but I don't truat you'. 

Quote

Every time she gets on her Yeager Meister kick (and drink 3/4 of a huge bottle) she gets twisted and holds grudges the next day (and sometimes beyond) even though she's the one who starts it. 

We can't have a normal rational conversation without it turning into a full fledged fight

She's totally mean, dismissive and uncaring about how I feel.

Quote

She says I'm controlling.

She claims I shouldn't be interfering with her job and that it's none of my business.

If I know I know something is bothering or hurting her I happily won't do it because I love her, but she won't do the same for me.

Quote

She tells me she wouldn't care if I went out to lunch with another woman if it's part of my job, but that's bs. She wouldn't show it would bother her. Instead she'd walk around being happy and take it out on me in other ways (like in the bedroom).

She has trust issues and doubts herself that come up when she drinks, but she claims she doesn't trust me because I don't trust her.

Quote

When we first started going out she told me she thinks all guys are dogs and that she doesn't trust anyone,

she can be a real b**** who twists things around and is dismissive,

I am perplexed as to why you'd want to bind your life and half of your treasury, legally, to this person who treats you like this and you know all of this before you drag the state into things.

Quote

It was all because she posted a pic of us on fb and not many of my friends liked it and she thought I had my settings set for only certain people to see it.

Could it be your friends see the ship sailing straight towards the iceberg, but know they can't get through to a man who won't see it because he wants what he wants so they're going to let you find out the hard way and tell you "I wanted to say something, but you were so in love you couldn't see daylight"?

Edited July 19, 2020 by kendahke

[smackie9]

On 7/18/2020 at 9:19 AM, GoldenR said:

You obviously have no boundaries nor respect for your H or your marriage.  

And how you can read his story and come up with you know that he invades her privacy, he's embellishing the story to make her look worse and he has jealousy issues is insanity in action. 

 

It was theoretical I said that. My husband and I don't have an issue having lunch or drinks after work with opposite sex associates...because we are mature adults. My husband has had drinks with a couple of ladies from a job site...no big deal. He a social guy I'm not going to wig out on him for that...my perspective: it's ridiculous to do that.

Been on the boards for almost two decades, and I have seen a lot of people who do this in jealousy accusatory threads. I have had my own experience, and other people I have known personally, how things get blown out of proportion and how jumping on their band wagon only feeds the anxiety. I post things like this so the OP will get themselves out of their focus on the negative, and have a better or just a different think about their situation. But this is what public forums are about?...getting different perspectives?

[smackie9]

20 hours ago, Vocals5 said:

She told me she's never met him. She's never met a vendor for lunch since we've been together (not that I know of). She has trust issues herself. She told me she does. Her dead ex of 15 years cheated on her because he thought she was cheating on him. She told me he was in love with love. I said so, what's wrong with that'? I think he cheated because he felt she didn't love him. When we first started dating she was the first one to say I don't trust you. She actually came out and said 'I love you, but I don't truat you'. I was in shock. It was all because she posted a pic of us on fb and not many of my friends liked it and she thought I had my settings set for only certain people to see it. It was nuts because I was the one pushing her to show our relationship on fb. She was reluctant to.

If you are loving trusting person, then you find a loving trusting person to be with. But you both, by the looks of it, don't have trust in each other. This goes to show you where there is no trust there is no relationship. You shouldn't have gone forward with this at all. It was already crumbling away.

 

[smackie9]

15 hours ago, kendahke said:

I am perplexed as to why you'd want to bind your life and half of your treasury, legally, to this person who treats you like this and you know all of this before you drag the state into things.

Could it be your friends see the ship sailing straight towards the iceberg, but know they can't get through to a man who won't see it because he wants what he wants so they're going to let you find out the hard way and tell you "I wanted to say something, but you were so in love you couldn't see daylight"?

I agree with this^^^^^ I'm curious what family or friends would have to say about it.

[d0nnivain]

OP 

 

I'm more concerned about the fact that your GF can drink 3/4 of a bottle of Yeagermeister   That is a HUGE amount of booze.  Since it makes her nasty & she hold grudges the next day her alcohol problem is much more serious then a lunch with a vendor.  

[kendahke]

41 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

OP 

 

I'm more concerned about the fact that your GF can drink 3/4 of a bottle of Yeagermeister  

I've had one experience with Jägermeister.

One.

[d0nnivain]

Stuff is nasty.  I thought I was spelling it wrong. Thanks for the clarification kendahke

[GoldenR]

18 hours ago, smackie9 said:

It was theoretical I said that. My husband and I don't have an issue having lunch or drinks after work with opposite sex associates...because we are mature adults. My husband has had drinks with a couple of ladies from a job site...no big deal. He a social guy I'm not going to wig out on him for that...my perspective: it's ridiculous to do that.

Been on the boards for almost two decades, and I have seen a lot of people who do this in jealousy accusatory threads. I have had my own experience, and other people I have known personally, how things get blown out of proportion and how jumping on their band wagon only feeds the anxiety. I post things like this so the OP will get themselves out of their focus on the negative, and have a better or just a different think about their situation. But this is what public forums are about?...getting different perspectives?

Ok, Smackie.  My bad.  Apologies extended.  

[IslandSanctuary]

On 7/21/2020 at 2:29 AM, smackie9 said:

It was theoretical I said that. My husband and I don't have an issue having lunch or drinks after work with opposite sex associates...because we are mature adults

Labeling YOUR way of looking at this as being 'mature adults' is insulting and out of line. Just because you do things a certain way and have found someone else that is ok doing it that way too does not make it right for everyone and in no way does it relate to being a 'mature adult'. People that are not ok with their partner having regular one on one date type activities with the opposite sex, like sharing a meal are not automatically 'immature children' and your labeling of them as such does however make you one. 

Many respected relationship experts and most people agree that one on one time with opposite sex friends can be a slippery slope, and I've read many books on the subject. 

You do you, but personally I wouldn't date you. 

[d0nnivain]

Island Sanctuary 

It may also be cultural but in North America a woman in business has to network to get anywhere.  Sometimes that involves dining with clients or salespeople.  

A business lunch has a far different feel / vibe then a date.  (pre-Covid) I'd shake the man's hand for business but kiss a date hello.  You lean in on a date & back during a meeting.  You gaze into each other's eyes on a date but don't make sustained eye contact at a meeting.  Meetings occur in well lit restaurants; dates are darker, more romantic spots.  The pace of the date is slower then the pace of business meal.  There is no other touching after the handshake hello & good=bye during the meeting.  You smile & giggle on a date; you are more serious & focused at a meeting.  My dates often pull out my chair for me; no man in his right mind would attempt something so chauvinistic at a business meal. On a date my date opens the door; at a business meal, the first person to reach the door opens it.   All in all there is nothing romantic or untoward at a business meal.  

As a woman, if those boundaries are maintained It's just fine.  I certainly don't cross them.  If I feel the man I'm having a meal or drink with is starting to edge toward those boundaries, I refocus the meeting back to business.  It doesn't take much to establish & maintain the boundary.  It's really very easy to set yourself up as just another business person where gender is irrelevant.  If you send clear signals, they are most often honored.  When they aren't, you have other remedies.  

[smackie9]

14 hours ago, IslandSanctuary said:

You do you, but personally I wouldn't date you. 

Like wise.

[smackie9]

BTW any interaction/chance meeting can be a slippery slope, but it does depend on the maturity level of that person. If you have your head on straight, there won't be anything slippery.