To the other woman ~ not judging you

[sheep123]

An acquaintance female friend of mine started a texting friendship with my husband.

I was not comfortable with it and I asked them to stop. 

She apologized profusely.

Years have passed and it never stopped.

My husband said it was 100% innocent.

I asked her via texting. . . After a period of days, she finally responded.

 

If it was innocent, what makes sense to you. . . For her to:

 

a. Apologize (again) and prove her innocence.

b. Say she's offended by my inferences, and then hide whenever she sees me.

[sheep123]

Her reaction was b.

Why?

Could it be innocent?

[Nats_16]

If she apologised then proceeded to carry on then that’s disrespectful. I assume you made your feelings clear to your husband to. Have you seen the conversations, what kind of things are they talking about.

[sheep123]

Yes. He knows if it happens again, it's over. I got a lawyer this time, and he begged me in tears to believe she is a buddy.

I have NO idea what they texed about. My Husband deleted everything.

Could it possibly be pure friendship and she is offended I asked what's going on? I asked, she waited days and days to acknowledge my question, and her response was ANGER.

If it was innocent, I could understand she is embarrassed she was caught, but to be angry at the wife? Angry?

If the man's wife asked you "What's the texting about" ~ is it a normal reaction to say, "What an offensive question!" and avoid you at all costs? Is this the reaction of a woman texting friendly texts? 

I am confused by her reaction if the texts were innocent.

My guess is the texts were sexual and an EA and the anger is gaslighting. 

Is it possible to be 100% innocent, flip it around that this is a crazy wife, that you had the right to continue with this woman's husband, and you don't owe the wife an explanation, even if you COULD prove your innocence?

Edited July 17, 2020 by sheep123

[heartwhole2]

I think it's very normal to feel like there's a female code that other women should follow, but the truth is that it's not her job to protect your marriage. It's your husband's. It's not her job to give you the facts of your marriage. It's your husband's. When your husband is being deceptive or defensive it can be hard to stand up to him, and it can feel easier to blame the OW and look for answers from her. But you are not married to her.

Yes, it's suspicious. And it's really unfortunate and wrong that your husband deleted the messages. The question you should be asking is why he did that, not why OW didn't respond well to you. If he's crying and begging you to believe him, that's a perfect time to tell him that he has to PROVE to you that he's not lying. If he doesn't know how, then he can do a lie detector test.

You deserve the truth. You deserve respect. Make sure your husband's actions demonstrate that.

[Subversa]

@sheep123, her days late response should  tell you that she didn’t want to answer anything in the first place and her misplaced anger tells you that she doesn’t value your friendship. I’m so sorry but this does sound suspicious. 
It is said that when you have nothing to hide, you hide nothing. I second your feeling that the texts might have been sexual in nature. The first thing my husband did when I found out about his EA was that he erased all the texts and conversations from his phone. He then went through my phone when I was sleeping and deleted everything I had forwarded to myself for evidence. 
I would suggest that you only talk to your husband about this because anything you say to your female acquaintance will be misconstrued. Also it does hurt to hear but she doesn’t have to give you explanations or prove her innocence. It is a tough lesson to learn. There is no girl code. I am so sorry I have been through this and we feel as if being a woman our friends/acquaintances would understand our plight but the truth is they have no stake in your marriage. If they have any ulterior motives they(OW) will view you as your enemy. I suggest you cease talking to her completely.
Also It sounds quite concerning that this has been going on for years despite you showing your displeasure. The chances of it being only an innocent friendship are slim. 
I would suggest you stick to your ground and demand him to Remain No contact with her. Any friendship crossing boundaries should be an immediate shutdown. This has went on far too long. Usually with affairs what we see is the tip of the iceberg. I’m so sorry I know it hurts to hear this. I was in this position and I know no one wants to be here. Please demand respect For yourself  and draw firm boundaries for him. 
Stay strong. 

Edited July 18, 2020 by Subversa

[sheep123]

Thank you heartwhole 2 and subversa.

I keep thinking if a woman questioned me what all the textng was about, I would

a. apologize

b. show her my phone as to save my reputation and her marriage

c. act normally

She, however. . . .

a. is ANGRY and OFFENDED

b. did not show me her phone this time (she did show me her phone years ago when I asked them to stop texting and the texts were innocent)

c. is hiding from me ~ she changed her daily routine to avoid me and if she does see me, se runs the other way

_______________________________________________________________________

My husband says:  I am jealous, insecure, ridiculous, he loves me, I know this woman and should trust her, she's married, too, and is a good person, can't he even have a friend, he's not longer going to discuss this with me, he blocked her, move on, get over it. . . 

My feeling is:  let's get the phone's sim card and do what we can to retrieve messages. (I tried Dr. Fone and it didn't work).

He says:  waste of time and money, it will destoy his phone and he needs it for work, to trust him, it's over, he blocked her, move on

________________________________________________________________________

I am torn wondering if I am a controlling wife, but I did not like the texting. It's private, it's 1:1, just them, I can't see the texts. . .

I hate my husband for doing this to me.

I hate this woman for continuing it, after I told them to stop texting years ago, she continued it, and all these years acted like my friend. Why isn't she doing what she can to put my mind at ease? She was somewhat of a friend. Why isn't she doing what she can to save my husband from my pain if it was innocent?

________________________________________________________________________

I don't know what the texts said! I have him telling me to move on, I am overreacting. I have her angry with me and avoiding me. I am so confused. My gut says it's the worst, my brain says maybe I am overbearing, but then I say: Why is this her reaction????

_______________________________________________________________________

As the other woman, how would you react if the wife contronted you?

[sheep123]

My husband infers she is avoiding me because I am acting like a crazy woman and a difficult person. That's what gets to me. . .SHOW ME THE TEXTS and prove me wrong!

I am NOT crazy! I am HURT! And you can prove your innocence, and you are NOT, but I am supposed to happily move on!

Edited July 18, 2020 by sheep123

[sheep123]

 

My gut tells me, and please tell me if I am right:

Her ANGER and avoidance is NOT because she's offended by my questioning and my suspicion, but that there were inappropriate texts exchanged and she doesn't know what I know or what I saw or what my husband confessed to. It's easier for her to be aloof and act disgusted by me. She's avoiding me because she's running scared. She turned her family against me in case I tell them what I know.

Am I right?

If it were innocent texts, she could call me possessive, say she is sorry, again, and act as if nothing is wrong. She is acting like something is VERY wrong,.

[heartwhole2]

It's really hard to listen to your gut when your life partner is telling you that your gut is all wrong. Don't let him gaslight you. Trust yourself. 

I think that maybe you're channeling your energy into the low-hanging fruit of getting your friend to fess up because your husband is so controlling. He's projecting that onto you. He can't make statements that appear to be contrary to the facts and then get mad at you when you ask for facts. 

Why would he respond this way? Let's say it was an innocent relationship and there was nothing to see in the texts. Wouldn't a normal response to be like, "Hey honey, I totally get why you are upset but really all we ever talked about was football, here, look at my phone." You asked for this relationship to end years ago and they both pretended it did. They were lying. So now, what, they're trying to claim there was an innocent reason why they lied but somehow it's your fault that their lying and hiding things made you suspicious and unsure? You're the problem here?

No. 

Please try to stop fixating on the friend. She is not your friend. Even if your husband had an innocent relationship with this woman, he still lied and is now acting like a big child. That's not OK. (And really, I don't think anyone here thinks this was an innocent relationship. He's acting exactly how a person with something to hide would act.)

Stay strong mama. He can meet your expectations or he can lump it.

[heartwhole2]

One thing you can do is put a voice activated recorder in his car. You could put your mind at ease that he's not talking to her when he's alone.

[sheep123]

Thank you, heartwhole2.

It is SO frustrating.

He knows I am keeping an eye on the phone records so he won't be calling her. I am 99.9% sure it is over.

Either one of them could have and should have shown me their phones if it was innocent. I deserved it from both of them.

His excuse for not showing me is so obvious.

But she was my friend, or so I thought. WHY IS SHE MAD AT ME? Is this gaslighting, too?

That's what I'm hung up on. . . It was a legitimate question of me to ask her what's up with the texts. Do you think she waited days to answer to get her story in line with his? Is her anger to confuse me???

There were two married women over the course of the 55 years of my life that asked me my intentions with their husbands. . .BOTH times I gave an AUTOMATIC apology and explained myself. My intentions were innocent and a total misunderstanding. I can't imagine putting the wife in her place, acting offended by her question, unless I was guilty and trying to confuse her. . .Am I right?

 

[heartwhole2]

Yes, you're right.

Your husband could call her through an app or a second phone. Facebook Messenger calls won't show up on your phone log, etc. 

Do you feel that maybe you're not ready to know the truth about the extent of the affair? What can you do to shore up your strength to get to that place?

[heartwhole2]

To answer your question about what's motivating her, I don't know. I've seen women in affairs complain that the betrayed wife is too controlling because they feel the wife should believe the lies the husband is feeding her and make her decisions based on lies. Therefore, if the wife expects transparency or boundaries from a husband she doesn't know is actually cheating, then . . . the wife is the problem? It really doesn't make sense.

People are motivated to view themselves positively. We want to be the hero or the victim, never the one harming or misusing another. So I wouldn't be surprised if this woman has engaged in a lot of double think. Like, you don't KNOW that anything inappropriate happened, so how dare you be upset? If your husband is telling her, oh just ignore her, it'll blow over . . . then for her to apologize and offer to answer your questions would mean she's not protecting him, and she probably wants to protect him. 

[anika99]

you confronted her years ago and she apologized profusely but then she went right back to texting your husband. That right there tells you all you need to know about her. Her apology was crap and she never respected your feelings. Now your husband has deleted everything and she won't talk to you. If it walks like a duck 

[pepperbird]

what's the saying about "with friends like these, who needs enemies?"...
I wouldn't trust either one of them. If your husband was innocent, his first concern would have been helping to make you feel secure, not to cover his own behind.

[merrmeade]

On 7/18/2020 at 8:32 PM, sheep123 said:

 

But she was my friend, or so I thought. WHY IS SHE MAD AT ME? Is this gaslighting, too?

So I found out over time (trickle truth) that my husband was a serial cheater. It finally dawned on me that the OWs were supposedly “our” friends, but I finally understood why I’d felt rejected by them or rather felt they’d rejected my overtures to be friends.

i understood it because I’d watched my own sister-in-law go from loving and supportive to critical and inscrutable. One word explains the impetus for it: Jealousy. But their negativity and spite is also part and parcel of an OW’s attitude toward the wife, whom she must package as flawed and undeserving to justify what she’s done to herself.

Edited August 1, 2020 by merrmeade

[schlumpy]

Did you attempt to talk privately with your "friends" husband? Nothing blows up an affair faster then bringing in the innocent bystanders.

[elaine567]

It's not innocent, it never was. We know it, you know it.
You have put your head in the sand, to no doubt save your marriage, but at what real cost to your own well-being and mental health?
If you were having an affair with your friend's husband, would you be able to cosy up with your friend?
Maybe for a while but the strain of unwitting disclosure would cause you to introduce some distance...
Her loyalty is now to him, not you. 
Betrayed by your husband, betrayed by your friend, dreadful place to be, but people have come through it better and stronger..
Hanging around with people who gaslight you whilst having an affair behind your back, isn't healthy for anyone.
Get yourself out of there.

[Amethyst68]

How sure are you it was only texting? 

I don't want to upset you but two adults with easy access to each other doesn't tend to stop at just texting.

[Doorstopper]

On 8/1/2020 at 11:55 AM, Amethyst68 said:

How sure are you it was only texting? 

I don't want to upset you but two adults with easy access to each other doesn't tend to stop at just texting.

First, ^^this right here^^. An emotional only affair , where the two parties are in physical close proximity is very rare. Its very possible they're having a physical affair. But ... what was the nature of their texting: I understand you don't have the texts, but if they were texting a few times a week, or perhaps even daily, on occasion, that may not rise to the level of something inappropriate.  If it was hundreds of texts a month, then there is more reason for concern. 

Definitely take this to her husband. Your husband may have deleted everything, but she may not have. There may also be other evidence, that the other spouse can obtain.

My thoughts on this is that either you are overreacting and this is nothing, or, they are far more involved that you think. 

Final note: Conversations can happen in lots of apps that you would never imagine like multiplayer games (dice with buddies, words with friends). So the fact that they are not texting, may not mean they are not communicating.

Good Luck!

[merrmeade]

I think you've figured it out - wish I'd known what you do!

I learned a lot from my that part of my husband's indiscretions. It's all the things you're saying - he's gaslighting you, she's acting guilty and defensive so she gets aggressive and hostile to you (in a word: jealous). 

But what I've learned from my experience and from this forum is that that kind of texting is exciting. They tease each other, make off-color suggestions or worse that they or may not have carried out. The sexual tension builds from all the back and forth and getting personal. It's a kind of flirting high and addictive all by itself though there could be more.

 

[Veronica73]

One thing is for sure-that woman is NOT your friend. In any way, shape or form. If she was, she wouldn’t have continued texting your husband after you asked her to stop. So you know she’s not sorry, and an apology would be insincere. She probably acted mad at you just to confuse you and make you doubt yourself. And maybe also she hopes to protect her reputation. If it was me, I’d cut her out of my life and never have anything to do with her again. 

But then you’ll have to figure out how you are going to deal with your husband’s betrayal.

I’m so sorry you are going through this. People can be such a**h***s.

[merrmeade]

On 7/18/2020 at 8:32 PM, sheep123 said:

He knows I am keeping an eye on the phone records so he won't be calling her. I am 99.9% sure it is over.

Either one of them could have and should have shown me their phones if it was innocent. I deserved it from both of them.

His excuse for not showing me is so obvious.

But she was my friend, or so I thought. WHY IS SHE MAD AT ME? Is this gaslighting, too?

That's what I'm hung up on. . . It was a legitimate question of me to ask her what's up with the texts. Do you think she waited days to answer to get her story in line with his? Is her anger to confuse me???

There were two married women over the course of the 55 years of my life that asked me my intentions with their husbands. . .BOTH times I gave an AUTOMATIC apology and explained myself. My intentions were innocent and a total misunderstanding. I can't imagine putting the wife in her place, acting offended by her question, unless I was guilty and trying to confuse her. . .Am I right?

First of all, that (in bold) is your answer. That is the difference between you and the "friend" who doesn't do the same thing to you. When people genuinely believe they are innocent they protest as you did. Your "friend" merely got angry and defensive. That's the reaction of a guilty person.

There are other ways to get information.

1. Bank and credit card statements. I can't remember if this was brought up, but you'd be surprised what a purchase in a strange part of town will tell you, the cost of a dinner out: Did it pay for one or two dinners? Odd purchases online or on trips. Gas charges from unusual places. 
2. Also did you say whether you checked his email and browser history? 
3. Did  you check data usage? Third-party apps such as WhatsApp will show up as a lot of data usage on the phone bill.
4. And then, of course, there is software that retrieves deleted text messages from the phone's hard drive. You could be taught how and then do it when he's sleeping. 

[Robert2016]

Has your husband offered to take a polygraph test?  Sometimes just the prospect of facing a polygraph discourages more lies, minimizing, and accusing you of being crazy.