Caught him on dating app

[kendahke]

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and it feels like we've been properly dating for much longer than it seems

But the reality is: you've scarcely had in-person interaction. All this is is electronic pen pal stuff--and it's all lived out in your head and not in real life.

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If you say to someone you're dating that you're exclusive,

Stop---get out of the speculation and get back to facts:

Quote

 

We never said the exact words "exclusive"

we didn't explicitly say we were exclusive

 

You're not exclusive with him. You've had 4 dates and a bunch of video calls and at no time did he ask you to be exclusive with him nor did you ask him.

Here's the deal: he's probably thinking that a 2 hour/closed border entanglement is more than he's really willing to undertake right now and it's easier to find someone who lives closer to him than it is to be constantly frustrated with someone who is logistically unavailable, especially if he's saying:

Quote

he wasn't feeling himself this week.

That was his nice way of telling you this long distance stuff isn't for him.

He closed down his account because he gleaned that you are checking up on him.  If he wants to find NSA sex within 15 minutes of where he lives, he'll just use a different name and make sure to block you from seeing his profile.

 

 

 

[Versacehottie]

8 hours ago, lovesfool said:

It could be because of the lockdown and the distance. It's hard when we only see each other every second week and can understand feeling less committed to a relationship that way. I know I feel that it's much less of a normal relationship than I'm used to because of the amount of time I see him.

Do you think I should talk to him about seeing him on the app and discuss trust?

I foolishly still have the app installed, regularly checking to see if he goes back on.

Yeah it's hard but the distance would be there with or without the lockdown.  So how does this make you feel that he would do this if you aren't easily accessible?  

I would guess there are also pretty good options for you to do right where you live so you shouldn't bond yourself to some guy that lives too far away and you can't trust, you know?

Hmmmm, about talking to him.  In your shoes, I would recommend not talking to him and just breaking up.  Talking to him shows that you want to preserve the relationship at any cost.  It's like you are already throwing yourself at his feet and kind of allowing yourself to be treated badly which typically is the beginning of the end. 

I still think that this should have you so rattled that you don't want to continue the relationship.  However, if you want to persist on staying together with him & think that it was vague enough that you weren't exclusive and you just assumed you were, then I think you should get to the bottom of it and talk to him.  If you were supposed to be exclusive, again I think you should break up.  I think there is a good chance he will tell you what you want to hear and continue to do what he wants.  He may just also say what you want initially and then fizzle out.  

Do you want a guy who you can TALK into being with you OR one that chooses to be with you and upholds what it means to do that?

I'm all for good communication and realize it gets messed up or misunderstandings sometimes but this is different in my mind.  It's a break of trust.  

Now fair is fair.  You should delete the app if you plan to stay with him. You don't want to become one of those girls who obsessively monitors for signs that her bf is cheating, do you?  I'd vote for keeping it and using it to find a new guy though  after you break up with him.

Edited July 19, 2020 by Versacehottie

[lovesfool]

10 hours ago, kendahke said:

Leave it be.  You two are not exclusive and you haven't bothered to let him know how you've been feeling.

That's right.  YOU thought. He didn't.. and he's not operating on assumptions like you are. You never assume about things like this without having had a conversation to that effect.

You say something like this if you two had an agreement of exclusivity and you went on the dating site and found this; but then you run the risk of him calling you out for being on the dating site--if it was for checking up on him or checking out other guys, you're still on it and your reason/excuse wouldn't make any difference to him.

But that's why I was going to ask him if he thought we were exclusive from the conversation we had before. If he says no, then this it's not much of an issue (except a little bit disheartening that he's still keeping his options open). If he says yes, then he's been on dating sites when he thought we were exclusive which is not a great sign in my eyes.

10 hours ago, kendahke said:

Here's the deal: he's probably thinking that a 2 hour/closed border entanglement is more than he's really willing to undertake right now and it's easier to find someone who lives closer to him than it is to be constantly frustrated with someone who is logistically unavailable, especially if he's saying:

That was his nice way of telling you this long distance stuff isn't for him.

He closed down his account because he gleaned that you are checking up on him.  If he wants to find NSA sex within 15 minutes of where he lives, he'll just use a different name and make sure to block you from seeing his profile.

I don't think he minds the long distance at all. I mentioned it to him and he said he wants to see me as much as possible and will make the effort of driving to see me 2 or 3 times a week. I even offered to drive to him but he insisted that he would come see me.

9 hours ago, Versacehottie said:

Yeah it's hard but the distance would be there with or without the lockdown.  So how does this make you feel that he would do this if you aren't easily accessible?  

I would guess there are also pretty good options for you to do right where you live so you shouldn't bond yourself to some guy that lives too far away and you can't trust, you know?

Hmmmm, about talking to him.  In your shoes, I would recommend not talking to him and just breaking up.  Talking to him shows that you want to preserve the relationship at any cost.  It's like you are already throwing yourself at his feet and kind of allowing yourself to be treated badly which typically is the beginning of the end. 

I still think that this should have you so rattled that you don't want to continue the relationship.  However, if you want to persist on staying together with him & think that it was vague enough that you weren't exclusive and you just assumed you were, then I think you should get to the bottom of it and talk to him.  If you were supposed to be exclusive, again I think you should break up.  I think there is a good chance he will tell you what you want to hear and continue to do what he wants.  He may just also say what you want initially and then fizzle out.  

This is very different to kendache's advice!

I can make the long distance work, but wasn't sure he could because anytime he had something on at the weekend he would say "oh well we will see each other next week then". It felt like not seeing me was not a big problem. I think if I told him I wouldn't be able to see him for a month he would say "okay cool!". Maybe it's because we had been doing the virtual dating for a 2-3 months that he is more able to handle going without seeing me. But when I said I wanted to see him more, he said that he wants to see me more as well now that he knows that's what I want. Maybe he's trying to avoid being too keen (he is inexperienced in relationships as I've said), or else he's just very laid back that things don't get to him (which I think is also very true!).

He keeps telling me to tell him what's on my mind, and this is on my mind so why hold back?

Another thing I noticed but I didn't say before is that the night I spoke to him and said that I wasn't sure if he wanted something serious and expressed my doubts, he made a post on his Facebook page. I don't follow him on Facebook (but I do on other social media), but I like to look at his page every now and then. He posted a status update after we spoke saying "feeling sad tonight". My heart actually went out to him when I read that. Deep down I think he cares, but some of his behaviour just confuses me.

Can you ever give a guy a chance because of relationship inexperience? I know I was hopeless in my first relationship and in the end caused it to fail because we never communicated the problems.

[Gaeta]

2 hours ago, lovesfool said:

Another thing I noticed but I didn't say before is that the night I spoke to him and said that I wasn't sure if he wanted something serious and expressed my doubts, he made a post on his Facebook page. I don't follow him on Facebook (but I do on other social media), but I like to look at his page every now and then. He posted a status update after we spoke saying "feeling sad tonight". My heart actually went out to him when I read that. Deep down I think he cares, but some of his behaviour just confuses me.

Can you ever give a guy a chance because of relationship inexperience? I know I was hopeless in my first relationship and in the end caused it to fail because we never communicated the problems.

You give this man way too much excuses. Why do you assume the 'feeling sad tonight' comment was related to your conversation? This man that forgot about you for 4 days and that you found prowling on a dating site, for all you know he posted this comment because the family cat died. 

Men that care, act like men that care. 

Men get infatuated pretty fast in a relationship. They know right away after a couple of dates, sometimes only 1 date, that they want you in their life. A man that is infatuated with his new girlfriend doesn't kill time on dating sites, he doesn't let exclusivity up in the air unadressed. He locks her down asap to make sure someone else won't sweep her off of her feet.

Sure you give chances to a new boyfriend, like you give him a chance when he's late to your date without warning, when he makes a bad joke out of nervousness, or he forgot your b'day..............but giving a man a chance after you found him prowling on a dating site is being naive.

[lovesfool]

2 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

You give this man way too much excuses. Why do you assume the 'feeling sad tonight' comment was related to your conversation? This man that forgot about you for 4 days and that you found prowling on a dating site, for all you know he posted this comment because the family cat died. 

Men that care, act like men that care. 

Men get infatuated pretty fast in a relationship. They know right away after a couple of dates, sometimes only 1 date, that they want you in their life. A man that is infatuated with his new girlfriend doesn't kill time on dating sites, he doesn't let exclusivity up in the air unadressed. He locks her down asap to make sure someone else won't sweep her off of her feet.

Sure you give chances to a new boyfriend, like you give him a chance when he's late to your date without warning, when he makes a bad joke out of nervousness, or he forgot your b'day..............but giving a man a chance after you found him prowling on a dating site is being naive.

He posted it in the middle of our conversation, just after I had said those things to him. He never posts anything like that and it would be silly to think it was anything else, especially because he would tell me if something like a pet died.

I think you are stuck in a fantasy world where it plays out like the movies. Guy and girl lock eyes across a room and it's love at first sight - that very rarely happens in real life. I know many of my female and male friends that have known their partners for years before even dating. Also infatuation is a negative thing because it suggests it's short lived.

I think it would be foolish of me to do anything harsh like dump him without talking to him first. All of this is making assumptions on why he did it by just looking at what he did. It's like that well known quote "we judge ourselves by our intentions and others by their behaviour".

There seems to be a theme here that if a man makes a mistake he needs to be dumped. Can't he just be stupid? 😂

[stillafool]

OP, it seems you already have all the answers ( and excuses) so why do you need LoveShack?

[Gaeta]

4 minutes ago, lovesfool said:

I think you are stuck in a fantasy world where it plays out like the movies.

Me? I'm 54 years old, been married and divorced twice, spent a few years single and dating before meeting my current bf. I've learn about life and relationships the hard way. Listen, if you want to date a man that is 'stupid' about relationship boundaries go ahead ! When it craws like a snake, whistles like a snake, chances are it is a snake. This man is looking for 'nothing serious', forgets you for 4 days, and you find him prowling on a dating site....That's 3 stupid mistakes now. That guy has lost his 1 chance already. 

[lovesfool]

5 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

Me? I'm 54 years old, been married and divorced twice, spent a few years single and dating before meeting my current bf. I've learn about life and relationships the hard way. Listen, if you want to date a man that is 'stupid' about relationship boundaries go ahead ! When it craws like a snake, whistles like a snake, chances are it is a snake. This man is looking for 'nothing serious', forgets you for 4 days, and you find him prowling on a dating site....That's 3 stupid mistakes now. That guy has lost his 1 chance already. 

He is new to relationships as he has never been in one, so he may actually be stupid about relationship boundaries right now!

Relationships are a two-way thing and I never messaged him over the four days either. What does that say about me?

The 'nothing serious' could be just that, on the app for a browse and an ego boost. Maybe he said 'nothing serious' because he is seeing me and not to get other girls expectations up that he would do anything more than chat.

I have no idea if any of the explanations I gave are true, but my point is that there are reasonable explanations for everything and I just feel communication is key here instead of me making up stories in my mind which may or may not be true. What harm can chatting to him do?

[ExpatInItaly]

35 minutes ago, lovesfool said:

There seems to be a theme here that if a man makes a mistake he needs to be dumped. Can't he just be stupid? 😂

Then you need to ask yourself why you go after stupid men. 

[lovesfool]

Just now, ExpatInItaly said:

Then you need to ask yourself why you go after stupid men. 

Stupid in this context just means inexperienced.

[stillafool]

Again OP, you've got all the answers so go ahead and call him.  Nothing teaches like experience.

[ExpatInItaly]

5 minutes ago, lovesfool said:

Stupid in this context just means inexperienced.

What's the difference, really?

If he's so inexperienced that he doesn't know that browsing on a dating app is not exactly conducive to solidifying something with a girl, then you have your work cut out for you.  Dating him would be too much work. 

Something tells me you know he's not that clueless though, even if it stings to admit to yourself. 

 

Edited July 19, 2020 by ExpatInItaly

[poppyfields]

On 7/17/2020 at 1:17 PM, central said:

What were you doing on the dating app, if you told him you were off them as well?  Anyway, you both may not be seeing others, but given you've had so few in-person dates, it seems premature to be exclusive (which neither of you has promised).  If you care to tell him that you were on the app and checking out others - or just checking on him - then you can ask him about his activity and intentions.  Otherwise, I think a wait-and-see approach is best.

Other than taking a "wait and see" approach, I agree with this.  I've read the other posts and imo nothing is ever so black and white or simplistic to say that because a man doesn't reach out for 4 days or peruses an app, he doesn't care, you're an FB, he will never commit, etc etc.

My own bf of almost 3 years didn't reach out for 4 days very early in, and trust me, it was not because he didn't care.

It was actually the opposite, he was beginning to care too much, but was uncertain about how *I* felt.  So I reached out, we talked and have been in an exclusive RL for almost 3 years.

People (not all) often have fears, anxieties, and insecurities that may  actually prevent them from moving forward in a consistent way, despite how much they care.

Including men!  Many men have the same anxieties and insecurities women do, but they've been taught and conditioned to contain those fears, resulting in behaviours that might suggest they don't care, when again it could be the opposite.  

Not saying it is in this case, but I wouldn't automatically jump to the standard "he doesn't care, dump him!"

OP, the night you told him you were unsure what you wanted and he immediately posted "feeling sad tonight" was his way of telling you that you being unsure makes him sad without telling you directly.  

Many people prefer to express themselves via social media, they feel less vulnerable that way. 

So I say talk to him.  Have an honest heart-to-heart.  Let him know what you want - exclusivity. 

Who the hell cares if he sees that as weak or whatever (it's not).

It called being vulnerable and if you want to get anywhere other than where you are now, you have to risk being vulnerable and opening up.

If he thinks that's weak, so be, good riddance.  

But it may possibly be what he needs since you admit you've been rather elusive, not opening up about how you feel and what you want. 

Don't forget that when you told him how you felt about the app, he responded he had NO idea you felt that way. And he immediately shut it down.

To me, that is not something a man who doesn't give a shyt would do.  

Talk to him, communicate.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2020 by poppyfields

[lovesfool]

  

38 minutes ago, stillafool said:

OP, it seems you already have all the answers ( and excuses) so why do you need LoveShack?

 

3 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Again OP, you've got all the answers so go ahead and call him.  Nothing teaches like experience.

Sorry, I missed your post and never responded.

I don't just accept advice without questioning it first. I'm very much a critical thinker and look at everything from both sides.

1 minute ago, ExpatInItaly said:

What's the difference, really?

If he's so inexperienced that he doesn't know that browsing on a dating app is not exactly conducive to solidifying something with a girl, then you have your work cut out for you.  Dating him would be too much work. 

Something tells me you know he's not that clueless though, even if it stings to admit to yourself. 

 

I have asked some of my friends what they thought and a lot of them think I'm overreacting and that I'm worried about nothing. Just men being men is what they said, and we weren't truly exclusive.

Do you think that every good relationship that exists is made up of men who have never done something stupid?

4 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

I so agree with this!  I've read the other posts and imo nothing is ever so black and white or simplistic to say that because a man doesn't reach out for 4 days or persuses an app, that he doesn't care, you're an FB, he will never commit, etc etc.

My own bf of almost 3 years didn't reach out for 4 days very early in, and trust me, it was not because he didnt care.

It was actually the opposite, he was beginning to care too much, but was uncertain about how *I* felt.  So I reached out, we talked and have been in an exclusive RL for almost 3 years.

People (not all) often have fears, anxieties, and insecurities that.may  actually prevent them from moving forward in a consistent way, despite how much they care.

Including men!  Many men have the same  anxieties and insecurities women do, but they've been taught and conditioned to contain those fears, resulting in behaviours that might suggest they don't care, when again it could be the opposite.  

Not saying it is in this case, but I wouldn't automatically jump to the standard "he doesn't care, dump him!"

OP, the night you told him you were unsure what you wanted and he immediately posted "feeling sad tonight" was his way of telling you that you being unsure makes him sad without telling you directly.  

Many people prefer to express themselves via social media, they feel less vulnerable that way. 

So I say talk to him.  Have an honest heart to heart.  Let him know what you want - exclusivity.  Who the hell cares that it may seem weak or whatever (it's not).

It called being vulnerable and if you want to get anywhere other than where you are now, you have to risk being vulnerable and opening up.

If he thinks that's weak, so be, good riddance.  

But it may be what he needs since you admit you've been rather elusive, not opening up about how you feel and what you want. 

Don't forget when you told him how you felt about the app, he responded he had NO idea you felt that way. And he immediately shut it down.

To me, that is not something a man who doesn't give a shyt would do.  

This has really resonated with me.  I have been on a lot of dates over my years and this guy is honestly the closest I've ever been to thinking that he's the one. I can sense he cares about me, moreso than anyone I've dated before. He is awkward at times and maybe doesn't express himself. He did tell me that he was going to ask if we wanted to make it official the last time we met, but he said he chickened out. I haven't spoken to him face to face about this, but maybe I'll be better able to gauge him that way.

Just a couple of clarifications on what you said. When he posted that "feeling sad tonight" message on Facebook, he wouldn't have known I saw it because I'm not his friend on it. Also I never mentioned the app to him, I just said that I was unsure if he wanted anything serious and then he uninstalled the app and I assume he didn't know I knew he was on it.

[ExpatInItaly]

15 minutes ago, lovesfool said:

  Do you think that every good relationship that exists is made up of men who have never done something stupid?

No, and that isn't the point i was trying to make. I'm not sure why you resort to hyperbole of this sort. 

The point is that it wasn't a stupid mistake due to inexperience. He knows what he's doing.  Does that mean he doesn't like you? No. But it does mean he isn't on the same page as you, in the way that each of you viewed this fledgling situation. 

My only caution for you is not to make too many excuses when someone shows you who they really are. 

EDIT: Is this the same guy from your last couple threads? For clarity, how old is he?

Edited July 19, 2020 by ExpatInItaly

[poppyfields]

20 minutes ago, lovesfool said:

Just a couple of clarifications on what you said. When he posted that "feeling sad tonight" message on Facebook, he wouldn't have known I saw it because I'm not his friend on it. Also I never mentioned the app to him, I just said that I was unsure if he wanted anything serious and then he uninstalled the app and I assume he didn't know I knew he was on it.

Sorry I misread it the first time.  However, it does not change my opinion.

You expressed some vulnerability by telling him you were unsure about him, and his response was he had no idea you felt that way and deleted the app.

That's pretty telling in my book and again not the actions of a man who doesn't care.

These early stages are often times so precarious and uncertain. Two independent people trying to come together.  

Then to have the distance and covid tossed into the picture, makes things more difficult and uncertain. 

I say follow your gut and don't be afraid to communicate, do NOT assume anything including that he's not on same page as you.  

He might be, he might not be, you just don't know especially if fear, anxiety and uncertainty are driving his ship.

Talk to him!  If you get hurt so be, there is nothing you can do to avoid that. Take a risk.  Be vulnerable. 

It took me a long time to learn this myself, it's not easy, and scary sometimes.  

But well worth it imo.

Edited July 19, 2020 by poppyfields

[lovesfool]

10 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

No, and that isn't the point i was trying to make. I'm not sure why you resort to hyperbole of this sort. 

The point is that it wasn't a stupid mistake due to inexperience. He knows what he's doing.  Does that mean he doesn't like you? No. But it does mean he isn't on the same page as you, in the way that each of you viewed this fledgling situation. 

My only caution for you is not to make too many excuses when someone shows you who they really are. 

EDIT: Is this the same guy from your last couple threads? For clarity, how old is he?

Maybe he's not on the same page, but I don't know that and I'd like to find out. I don't want to cast aspersions on him without getting his side first. I appreciate I need to take caution. I was dating a guy last year who was on a dating app (which he regularly updated) and I confronted him about it and he didn't see an issue with it. I ended it because of that as he told me it was too soon for us to be exclusive, but I didn't agree.

This is the guy from the other posts. He is around 26 years old (I sometimes keep things vague to try and keep some kind of anonymity on these forums, but that's approximately his vintage!)

8 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Sorry I misread it the first time.  However, it does not change my opinion.

You expressed some vulnerability by telling him you were unsure about him, and his response was he had no idea you felt that way and deleted the app.

That's pretty telling in my book and again not the actions of a man who doesn't care.

These early stages are often times so precarious and uncertain. Two independent people trying to come together.  

Then to have the distance and covid tossed into the picture, makes things more difficult and uncertain. 

I say follow your gut and don't be afraid to communicate, do NOT assume anything including that he's not on same page as you.  

He might be, he might not be, you just don't know especially if fear, anxiety and uncertainty are driving his ship.

Talk to him!  If you get hurt so be, there is nothing you can do to avoid that. Take a risk.  Be vulnerable. 

It took me a long time to learn this myself, it's not easy, and scary sometimes.  

But well worth it imo.

I find it hard to communicate in the early stages of a relationship because of the fear I will scare them off by being too intense or taking it too seriously. Then I just bottle things up and the problem gets worse and then end things. It's a really hard balance I find.

By the way, in case it doesn't show, I really appreciate all the advice so far, no matter what your opinion is.

[Gaeta]

I've read your last thread. Now I'm learning this man does not initiate, not even in the bedroom department and this has last 4 months because of your doing. All that is followed by him being on a dating site and looking 'for nothing serious'. I imagine when you met him online he had something else set up in his profile? So he went online changed the details and looked around. Add to that he is new to relationships blahblah. This man is playing the field. You're 1 fish he caught now he's testing if he could catch something else. If you are looking for a serious relationship he's not it. He needs to experience dating, and life before becoming an interesting propect to a serious woman. 

Being new to dating is not a free-pass to chase other women till you get caught. 

Now my question to you is: Why do you hang on to a man that does not show a sustain interest, does not initiate, does not set up meetings?

[poppyfields]

Wanted to add that awhile back, before I became a member (or it may have been another forum) I recall a thread created by a woman (sorry can't remember poster's name) who had just started dating her boyfriend and he didn't reach out for about 4-5 days.

He finally got in touch, told her he had lost his phone.  She believed him and they continued dating.

After a bit, she discovered dating apps on his phone and confronted him, he told her they were from before they met, he had forgotten to delete.   So he deleted them.

Everyone advised her to dump him, but her gut said not to.

Wise decision as last I read, it's been 5 years, they are still together and he is an awesome boyfriend!  

Just goes to show ya, things are not always what they appear to be on surface level. 

There are simply too many nuances and complexities at play to assume any definitive without communicating.

Good luck lovesfool..... 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2020 by poppyfields

[Gaeta]

11 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

Wanted to add that awhile back, before I became a member (or it may have been another forum) I recall a thread created by a woman (sorry can't remember poster's name) who had just started dating her boyfriend and he didn't reach out for about 4-5 days.

He finally got in touch, told her he had lost his phone.  She believed him and they continued dating.

I remember this story like it's my own 😉 I also remember this man was showing her sustained interest since the 1st date, he set up dates each week, and was an all around gentleman. That's the type of 1 chance you give a man.

[ExpatInItaly]

28 minutes ago, lovesfool said:

This is the guy from the other posts. He is around 26 years old (I sometimes keep things vague to try and keep some kind of anonymity on these forums, but that's approximately his vintage!)

Taking this together with your other threads, I think you’re wise to have some reservations about thus guy. It seems that your interest is higher than his and your gut has been trying to tell you that for a little while. 

 

[Gaeta]

34 minutes ago, lovesfool said:

 (I sometimes keep things vague to try and keep some kind of anonymity on these forums, but that's approximately his vintage!)

Usually people posting and keeping details vague are wanting to hear something specific and really wanting an outside opinion. Adding your past thread to this one gives us a better picture of this man, why wouldn't you want us to have a full picture? 

[poppyfields]

12 minutes ago, Gaeta said:

I remember this story like it's my own 😉 

I hear ya Gaeta, I think it's a fairly common reason used (or excuse) -   a guy allegedly losing his phone.  

It's happened to me too and I always felt he could have called from another phone but whatever. 

It worked out in the other poster's case cause she asked, not assumed.  And she trusted him.

I just think communicating is so important versus assuming. 

In lovesfool's case, the distance and covid also adds an element of uncertainty and makes it impossible to have regular dates with any clear consistency.  

 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2020 by poppyfields

[lovesfool]

Some not so great news. He's back on the app. 😔

I don't think I'll get to see him for another while to talk to him about this. I'm thinking I will just message him and be done with it. Otherwise it's going to distract me all week.

[poppyfields]

4 minutes ago, lovesfool said:

Some not so great news. He's back on the app. 😔

I don't think I'll get to see him for another while to talk to him about this. I'm thinking I will just message him and be done with it. Otherwise it's going to distract me all week.

Wow okay, I'm sorry. LF. 

Agree if it's causing you this much angst, anxiety and distraction, next him.  

I was willing to give him benefit of doubt but now he just seems like a sleaze. 

((hugs))