Family issues

[Happymostly]

Hi.  This is my first post, I hope this is a good place for it to go.  

My boyfriend and I have been together for 3 years.  We are in our early 50's and have just made the decision to buy a house together in the next year or so.     I have older kids out of the house but he doesn't have children.   

My issue is his family.  His parent's have passed but he has 2 sisters who are living in the parent's home (that was left to all 3 kids) and have made a complete mess out of it.  Think of hoarders, like that.    They aren't paying many of the bills at the house.   My bf pays the insurance on the house and the sisters sometimes pay other bills but not much.   

Not looking for financial advice of course but to paint a picture, the house is in all 3 of their names.  Taxes are years overdue, liens on the house from oil companies, credit cards (from the sisters), medical bills, etc., etc.     

One of the sisters has finally moved out this week but the other one I don't think will ever move.   I think she has a mental illness which keeps her stuck, not able to throw anything anyway, just living in filth.    If my bf tries to talk to her she breaks down and will not talk about it.   

Legally, they all 3 own the house.     My bf is done and aside from the insurance (to protect the property legally as far as liability, slip and falls, etc) will not pay anything further unless they do.   As an example, if they have the money to pay their 1/3 of the taxes, he will pay his 1/3 also.   But in Real Estate, everyone is 100% responsible.  So for example he could go to the town hall and pay his 1/3 of the taxes, but that will not stop the town from foreclosing due to back taxes if the other portion isn't paid.  I keep telling him,  If you have a property that you can't live in (he can't/won't live in that house), rent or sell, it's not an asset, it's a liability.        His options are to legally try to get her out (difficult but not impossible, her name is on deed) or to quitclaim his name off of it and walk away.     Neither of these he is willing to do at this point.   

Last night we were at the house getting out some of his father's belongings that his sisters have no problem with him taking and the situation really came to a head for me.   I realized how bad this is.   I immediately decided that I wanted to tell him that we can't be buying a house together until this situation has been resolved.    This situation has been going on for 6 years with no end in sight.  It makes me crazy.   

But then I started to think to myself that we are partners is every way.  There is a chance that my mother may have to live with us in the future and I know my bf would be o.k with that.  He's loving and caring and a life partner to me.   What if one of my boys were to get in trouble with the law or involved in a car accident and needed my help (just throwing out scenarios here), I would expect he would still stick by me.    So it's not fair for me to say that I won't blend my life with his until this situation has been taken care of.    But it makes me crazy. 

How do you separate yourself from family situations with a partner and not have it affect you so much emotionally?  Or not get involved when it's really none of your business.   It's not costing me money personally.      Ugh I just don't know what to do.  

 

[schlumpy]

He should kiss the ground you walk on.

Your BF needs to get out from under any legal liability that can come back on him. Make one attempt to sell the house but if all three don't agree your BF should sign over his share to one of the sisters.

This is a ticking time bomb that will affect him sometime in the future.

[Happymostly]

9 minutes ago, schlumpy said:

He should kiss the ground you walk on.

 

LOL  That made me laugh thank you.   

He really is a great partner to me, we have a great relationship, the best I've ever been in.   And I vacillate between being upset and knowing that this will eventually crash down on him (us?) and being pissed off that nothing is being done and being sympathetic to the situation that he has been put in.    He hasn't done anything to cause this.  The only way out of it is to walk away and I believe he feels like he's letting his parent's down by doing that.    I just don't know how to handle it.  

Thanks for your input

[FMW]

49 minutes ago, Happymostly said:

How do you separate yourself from family situations with a partner and not have it affect you so much emotionally? 

You just have to try to come to terms with it, thinking it through logically and realistically.  

You're both over 50 and that comes with a lot of baggage (I'm 55, I am deeply familiar with how crazy-making that baggage can be 🙂).  You have separate obligations, you're not a young couple starting with a blank slate and building your lives together from scratch.  You have existing lives that you will need to figure out how to blend or at least co-exist with if you're going to stay together.

Of course it's not easy, but unless you want to be in turmoil all the time (within yourself or with him), you have to be able to accept you don't have much control over the situation.  You can give him your opinion and your thoughts about how he should handle the situation, but in the end, it's HIS situation, his choice on how to deal with it.  The choice you have is to accept things as they are or to not be with him.

You absolutely do have every right (and responsibility to yourself) to make sure that HIS situation doesn't affect you financially.

      

 

[Artdeco]

The house should be sold and the profits shared, if any, after back taxes and bills etc. Three adult siblings can’t live together, and if the one who uses the home can’t pay the other 2 out, the property needs to be sold. 

[Happymostly]

2 minutes ago, FMW said:

You just have to try to come to terms with it, thinking it through logically and realistically.  

You're both over 50 and that comes with a lot of baggage (I'm 55, I am deeply familiar with how crazy-making that baggage can be 🙂).  You have separate obligations, you're not a young couple starting with a blank slate and building your lives together from scratch.  You have existing lives that you will need to figure out how to blend or at least co-exist with if you're going to stay together.

Of course it's not easy, but unless you want to be in turmoil all the time (within yourself or with him), you have to be able to accept you don't have much control over the situation.  You can give him your opinion and your thoughts about how he should handle the situation, but in the end, it's HIS situation, his choice on how to deal with it.  The choice you have is to accept things as they are or to not be with him.

You absolutely do have every right (and responsibility to yourself) to make sure that HIS situation doesn't affect you financially.

      

 

Great advice thank you so much!!   

[Happymostly]

1 minute ago, Artdeco said:

The house should be sold and the profits shared, if any, after back taxes and bills etc. Three adult siblings can’t live together, and if the one who uses the home can’t pay the other 2 out, the property needs to be sold. 

Oh for sure.   I'm 100% in agreement with this.   Issue is that the house has been hoarded to the ceilings and one sibling refuses to move out.    It's easy to see what needs to happen, but when one party refuses, that's where the issues lie.   Thank you for responding 

[d0nnivain]

He does have the legal right to sell the house.  He will need a lawyer to file something called an action for partition sale based on a legal concept called waste.  It's not easy & it could get expensive.  The problem is that it's not that emotionally easy.  If your BF tried to evict his mentally ill siblings who are hoarders who probably can't manage their own financial affairs, what will happen to them?  He may not be able to handle the guilt of rendering them homeless.  It's not a matter of them being lazy & him needing to exercise tough love; they may be incapable.  

If he can afford to carry the insurance & pay the taxes on the boondoggle that is his inheritance while still getting a house with you, just turn a blind eye to it.  

[Happymostly]

36 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

He does have the legal right to sell the house.  He will need a lawyer to file something called an action for partition sale based on a legal concept called waste.  It's not easy & it could get expensive.  The problem is that it's not that emotionally easy.  If your BF tried to evict his mentally ill siblings who are hoarders who probably can't manage their own financial affairs, what will happen to them?  He may not be able to handle the guilt of rendering them homeless.  It's not a matter of them being lazy & him needing to exercise tough love; they may be incapable.  

If he can afford to carry the insurance & pay the taxes on the boondoggle that is his inheritance while still getting a house with you, just turn a blind eye to it.  

Thank you so much for this.    Ya I'm not sure if it's worth fighting over, in the condition that it's in because of the years of abuse.   I mean as far as hiring an attorney and having it get ugly/expensive.       It's sad all around.   

I have wondered the same thing, if the taxes were brought current, it would cost him approx $5000 a year to pay the taxes and insurance and just let her live there.   Problem, of course, is if the house deteriorates due to neglect, what happens when the roof needs to be replaced, furnace, etc.   It's just years and years of him paying so she has a place to live.     $5000 a year is a lot of money but it would not stop him from buying something with me.     This is an option.   

She has mental issues that cause the hoarding, but yet she's functional as far as having a job (minimum wage job) and actually owns a place of her own that she hoarded and moved out of.    So she has a place to go, but apparently that place is uninhabitable at the moment, hasn't lived there for 10 years but still pays enough of the bills there that it hasn't been foreclosed.   It's just a bad scene all around.   

I'm not sure how long the town will let the taxes go unpaid before they start foreclosure proceedings and evict due to back taxes but it's been 3 years of unpaid taxes.    I'm sure a demand letter is coming.     Ugh.   It's so hard for me to not worry about all of this.   

Thanks again!

[mrs rubble]

30 minutes ago, Happymostly said:

Thank you so much for this.    Ya I'm not sure if it's worth fighting over, in the condition that it's in because of the years of abuse.   I mean as far as hiring an attorney and having it get ugly/expensive.       It's sad all around.   

I have wondered the same thing, if the taxes were brought current, it would cost him approx $5000 a year to pay the taxes and insurance and just let her live there.   Problem, of course, is if the house deteriorates due to neglect, what happens when the roof needs to be replaced, furnace, etc.   It's just years and years of him paying so she has a place to live.     $5000 a year is a lot of money but it would not stop him from buying something with me.     This is an option.   

She has mental issues that cause the hoarding, but yet she's functional as far as having a job (minimum wage job) and actually owns a place of her own that she hoarded and moved out of.    So she has a place to go, but apparently that place is uninhabitable at the moment, hasn't lived there for 10 years but still pays enough of the bills there that it hasn't been foreclosed.   It's just a bad scene all around.   

I'm not sure how long the town will let the taxes go unpaid before they start foreclosure proceedings and evict due to back taxes but it's been 3 years of unpaid taxes.    I'm sure a demand letter is coming.     Ugh.   It's so hard for me to not worry about all of this.   

Thanks again!

He should pay the taxes if he can as a foreclosure would have effect on his credit rating I'd think.

[Ruby Slippers]

It sounds like you essentially have a boyfriend who's financially partially supporting his mentally ill sister. Given her mental state and minimum wage job, there's a good chance she'll lean on him more and more financially as the years go by. Are you OK with that? Can he afford to do that and also keep up his financial obligations on the house you'll be buying together?

Since you're not married, his financial issues with his family will not become yours directly. If I were you, I'd only buy a house with him with a solid legal agreement that covers your butt in case his finances decline in the future, due to him supporting the sister. 

[Happymostly]

1 minute ago, mrs rubble said:

He should pay the taxes if he can as a foreclosure would have effect on his credit rating I'd think.

Well there's no mortgage, when I say foreclose, I mean the town foreclosing for unpaid taxes.  But yet now that you mention it, I'm not sure if that will affect credit score or not.   I guess it would depend on if they report to the credit agencies.    

[Happymostly]

Just now, Ruby Slippers said:

It sounds like you essentially have a boyfriend who's financially partially supporting his mentally ill sister. Given her mental state and minimum wage job, there's a good chance she'll lean on him more and more financially as the years go by. Are you OK with that? Can he afford to do that and also keep up his financial obligations on the house you'll be buying together?

Since you're not married, his financial issues with his family will not become yours directly. If I were you, I'd only buy a house with him with a solid legal agreement that covers your butt in case his finances decline in the future, due to him supporting the sister. 

I've thought of this.   His plan for now is to help if they need help with smaller things.   Like he can help move things, pay for groceries if they need it, etc.   Last year he gave them $200 for oil, things like that.   But he can't support them fully.   He doesn't have the means for that  - to pay their rent or support them as if they are children.   

We have discussed it and is also fearful that they will be needing help in the future.  I think he has to continue to agree to help with the small things but set boundaries around helping with larger issues and not letting them live with us.  That has to be a boundary that is set, I will put my foot down on that.  Although I know he doesn't want that either.    

To me there is a HUGE difference between a family member that needs help sometimes and a family member who will drain you dry if you let them.   These 2 would be the latter for sure.  So his answer will be that he is unable to help on a larger scale, because he just can't.    This is so draining.   Thank you for your response

[Ruby Slippers]

2 minutes ago, Happymostly said:

We have discussed it and is also fearful that they will be needing help in the future.  I think he has to continue to agree to help with the small things but set boundaries around helping with larger issues and not letting them live with us.  That has to be a boundary that is set, I will put my foot down on that.  Although I know he doesn't want that either. 

Yes, setting and sticking to a boundary is key. The problem arises if her situation deteriorates to the point that she's out on the streets. Hopefully it never comes to that, but given the circumstances, you have to consider the possibility. He might really struggle to stick to his boundaries at that point. I'd recommend you formulate a plan together - and you have a solid backup plan of your own in case you aren't able to come to agreement on it. 

[amaysngrace]

She’ll probably have to make arrangements to live with one of her siblings if she’s not able to live on her own.  

When my mom died my sisters and I were worried about my brother having no one around.  He lived a little on his own once but he mostly lived with my parents.  We all offered for him to live with us or if he wasn’t comfortable with that then to live close to one of us at least. 

He chose to live with my sister and her husband in Florida.  

Maybe that would be a good situation for her too, to short sell the house and have her live with either her sister or the two of you.  He and his sister wouldn’t be letting the dad down if they were willing to do that.

[Ruby Slippers]

She already said she draws a line at the sister moving in with them. And I don't blame her for drawing the line at living with a mentally ill hoarder. A comedian once said there's only two places in the world you're guaranteed any peace: your home and the grave.

[amaysngrace]

2 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

She already said she draws a line at the sister moving in with them. 

Yet he’s okay with having her mother live with them?  

I’d put off buying a home together because they don’t sound compatible.

[Happymostly]

1 hour ago, amaysngrace said:

Yet he’s okay with having her mother live with them?  

I’d put off buying a home together because they don’t sound compatible.

Huge difference between a sibling who has continued to mismanage money, suck the parents dry when they were alive, has a mental illness, hoarding, etc. and my mother who may someday, as she approaches 80, not be able to care for herself but not want to live in a home unless/until the time comes that we can't care for her.   Huge difference in my mind.     Also, he doesn't want his sisters living with him or us.  So this is not just a boundary I have set, but one that he has already set for himself before I met him.    

Like I said before, huge difference between a family member who needs a little boost and allowing someone in who will suck you dry both emotionally and financially.   His sisters relied on their parents heavily, lost houses to foreclosure in the past, quit good jobs to just borrow money from them, on and on.  And now that the parents have passed on, there isn't a handout anymore.    Unfortunately I think the parents enabled them to the point where they have never had to stand on their own two feet without that safety net.      I understand that family is family and you have to help when you can.  But you can't let someone who is toxic take over your life either.   

Edited July 18, 2020 by Happymostly
added more

[amaysngrace]

People with mental illness are toxic?  

Good to know 👌🏻

[Happymostly]

8 minutes ago, amaysngrace said:

People with mental illness are toxic?  

Good to know 👌🏻

Nope.   I'm saying these two particular people, one of which has a mental illness, are toxic.   Don't put words in my mouth   

[amaysngrace]

Maybe the mentally ill one can live with her sister then.  

[amaysngrace]

16 minutes ago, Happymostly said:

1 hour ago, Happymostly said:

Huge difference between a sibling who has continued to mismanage money, suck the parents dry when they were alive, has a mental illness, hoarding, etc. and my mother who may someday, as she approaches 80, not be able to care for herself but not want to live in a home unless/until the time comes that we can't care for her.   Huge difference in my mind.

 I'm saying these two particular people, one of which has a mental illness, are toxic.   Don't put words in my mouth   

Actually I read it again and it sounds like you’re only speaking about one person, the one with mental illness, the same one you say is toxic.  

Thats who I was speaking of too.  If she’s unable to function properly it’s not very nice to hold all the ways she can’t function against her but you probably know that already.

[Realitysux]

12 minutes ago, amaysngrace said:

Actually I read it again and it sounds like you’re only speaking about one person, the one with mental illness, the same one you say is toxic.  

Thats who I was speaking of too.  If she’s unable to function properly it’s not very nice to hold all the ways she can’t function against her but you probably know that already.

Yea but it's too little too late as she's already done that 

[Crazelnut]

My suggestions:

1. Write down the possible scenarios of what could happen with the house and what follows when that happens. County takes it. Insurance company refuses to insure it. Sister can't live by herself. BF has to pay all house taxes and insurance, etc. Walk all the way down the line with each scenario, exploring domino effects. If a happens, then b.  If b, then either c or d happens. If c, then e. If d, then, f. Take them to a reasonable conclusion.

2. Research or talk to a lawyer to find out the ramifications of what each scenario means to your BF and his financial & legal situation. Credit rating, general financial health, etc. 

3. How does that affect YOUR life? Does it impact your proposed joint home ownership? Can you even get homeowners insurance? Is he on the hook for back taxes? (You'd better have an ironclad legal agreement on the home, finances, etc. and what happens to the home if you split up, anyway!) Where are your boundaries in this? To what extent are you willing to suck it up?

You don't have to suck it all up, btw.  The purpose of the exercise is to help you figure out exactly what you're able to accept and what you cannot. Once you figure that out, communicate it clearly to him and then let him decide what to do. 

Personally, I'd never be able to buy a home with a man who is so cavalier about dealing with taxes and insurance, etc. I don't think it bodes well.

[d0nnivain]

I can't believe the tax collector let this go on for 3 years.  In most states they have the right to start a tax sale after 3 quarters of non-payment.  

Do your BF a favor & check that out.  It's a simple Google search on the tax collector's website.  Just make sure you use the legitimate free public one  the .gov,  not many of the fakes that pop up when you request the search on a search engine.  

Paying $5,000 per year in taxes is a lot but it seems cheaper then paying their rent or worse having them live with you.   

Maybe, your BF can get the sisters to agree to a clean out in exchange for his help with the taxes.  At the end of their lives my parents developed hoarder tendencies because they had physical difficulty cleaning &  would buy stuff on sale like toilet paper & forget they did, then buy more  I got 1 year of coffee, 7 years of paper towels, 9 years of toilet paper, & 10 years of laundry detergent after they died. 🙄 About 4 years before they died, I hired a professional clean out service that transformed the house.  I thought I was going to have to replace the appliances & carpets but they got everything back to sparkling.  It was amazing.  Best $2,500 I ever spent & it did wonders for my parents mental (& physical) health living in a clean environment again.   

Try talking to your BF about that.  May give the sisters a new lease on life & preserve the inheritance. 

If he keeps good records when it comes time to sell the house your BF may be able to re-coup 2/3 of the tax payments from the sisters' share of the proceeds.