The loopholes (thermoregulation) that anti-maskers are trying to grasp

[basil67]

I agree.  I make two layer fabric masks, but they feel weird on my skin.  It's winter here now...but I suspect I will be converting to commercial masks for summer.

[QuietRiot]

10 hours ago, vjk said:

Have you ever heard of trigeminal neuralgia?  A relative of mine has it. Just touching your nose  can trigger intense pain. Guess what the mask does.

There is treatment for that condition, that said...she can wear a mask.

[QuietRiot]

2 hours ago, basil67 said:

It's OK @Kitty Tantrum, pretty much everyone is having the same discomfort.  They know what you're experiencing.  It's far from pleasant, but they suck it up.

Yeah, from what I read of Kitty T's experience of wearing a mask...I was like, 'Yep, suck-it-up butter cup!" lol

[Kitty Tantrum]

Well, I am sucking it up. At least to the point where they tell us to wear masks outdoors/at home/all the time. That's a big old can of NOPE.

I just have to shake my head a little bit because it seems so much more unsanitary to be like, actually dripping sweat on the floor at the supermarket, HAVING to touch my mask (that is damp from my respiration and sweat) to lift it to breathe, or having to change my mask in the middle of shopping or whatever, if it came to that.

I was raised to be hyper aware of cleanliness, hygiene, sanitary practices, etc., and THOSE are the things I think people ought to be staring me down and judging me for. The same way I was kinda judging/kinda laughing at the gals I saw really early on, way before masks were mandated, walking around Costco with these (actually very pretty) color-coordinated masks on... but like, touching their faces, then touching stuff in the store, rubbing their eyes, touching stuff in the store, etc.

At one point I grabbed my mask and basically used it to dab all the sweat up out of my nose crevices - looking around to take note of how many people were horrified.

They're just happy there's a mask on my face. I don't get it.

Actually, I noticed a new sign taped up at the store while I was there saying that a face shield is also acceptable for folks who can't wear a face covering. I might try one of those. I think they look absolutely ridiculous and don't really do much in the way of preventing whatever germs I'm breathing from getting out (most of what I'm handling in the store is going to pass through the completely open area under the shield), and they might catch big droplets/splatter but if you actually sneeze or cough you're still going to blow a big old cloud of contamination out the sides/bottom - but whatever. Might be a lot more comfortable. I can probably make a bunch real easy out of a thick vinyl shower curtain.

It's really NOT about whether the mask is effective, it's about whether I'm visibly "compliant." I can work with that. I can probably have some fun with that. 😆

Edit for typo and to add: those disposable masks are the WORST for me. I have a thing (also related to my condition, seemingly) about synthetic fibers, most of them irritate my skin to no end, especially with sweat in the mix. I have to be very careful about what I put on my skin. And that brings to mind something that most folks don't understand but that a lot of folks with "silent" or "invisible" conditions will: when you've already spent your entire life learning and establishing systems to support and work around and self-accommodate a medical condition that you can do LITERALLY  NOTHING ABOUT, in order to achieve something resembling normal functionality -- it's not "JUST a mask." Not intended as a point of debate - just compassionate understanding for those in the same boat. ❤️

Edited August 16, 2020 by Kitty Tantrum

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

20 hours ago, vjk said:

Have you ever heard of trigeminal neuralgia?  A relative of mine has it. Just touching your nose  can trigger intense pain. Guess what the mask does.

Oh my ex had that many years ago. So painful!! Thankfully his was temporary and treatable with Tegratol (sp?).

[major_merrick]

43 minutes ago, Kitty Tantrum said:

It's really NOT about whether the mask is effective, it's about whether I'm visibly "compliant." I can work with that. I can probably have some fun with that. 😆

You hit the nail on the head - being visibly compliant.  I've seen some other people having fun with it.  Some folks wear Nazi or Soviet flag masks to highlight the tyranny.  Some wear other masks with slogans of protest, penis shapes, etc...  Others decide to go dressed up as some masked character.  The best one I saw was a guy who went to Walmart dressed like a Taliban fighter with a turban and a facecloth.  If life is gonna be disrupted, might as well be disruptive in return. 😆 

Long ago, I simply chose not to deal with it.  At this point, the response people receive from me is entirely of their own making.  Leave me alone and I'll leave them alone.  Bother me, then they're gonna get bothered in return. 

Masks do have one advantage - they defeat facial recognition and identification by witnesses.  If and when I start wearing a mask...expect to be asked for your wallet and car keys.  Mighty hard to describe the person who mugged you when "They were wearing a mask" describes EVERYBODY. 

[jspice]

10 hours ago, major_merrick said:

You hit the nail on the head - being visibly compliant.  I've seen some other people having fun with it.  Some folks wear Nazi or Soviet flag masks to highlight the tyranny.  Some wear other masks with slogans of protest, penis shapes, etc...  Others decide to go dressed up as some masked character.  The best one I saw was a guy who went to Walmart dressed like a Taliban fighter with a turban and a facecloth.  If life is gonna be disrupted, might as well be disruptive in return. 😆 

Long ago, I simply chose not to deal with it.  At this point, the response people receive from me is entirely of their own making.  Leave me alone and I'll leave them alone.  Bother me, then they're gonna get bothered in return. 

Masks do have one advantage - they defeat facial recognition and identification by witnesses.  If and when I start wearing a mask...expect to be asked for your wallet and car keys.  Mighty hard to describe the person who mugged you when "They were wearing a mask" describes EVERYBODY. 

How childish. 
I say bring on the nazi masks and taliban turbans as long as you cover your face. 
 

How juvenile you Americans are. 

[regine_phalange]

Just focus on not touching your face and go shopping early morning or in the evening to avoid sweating. Or if you are to suffer just arrange a home delivery. Even amazon delivers some longlife fooditems. This is from someone who sweats when it snows and has bursts of shortness of breath and had to go to the shop during a humid heatwave.

I mean you guys in the US have been having ridiculous numbers of deaths per day for a while, doesn't this bother you? 

I mean even if you don't die this illness is not fun. I know fit young people who got it around March and are still feeling exhausted.

[pepperbird2]

8 hours ago, jspice said:

How childish. 
I say bring on the nazi masks and taliban turbans as long as you cover your face. 
 

How juvenile you Americans are. 

In my experience, it's often not really about rebelling. It's people are bored and trying to find a way to "lighten up" the situation.
people here are very afraid, of the virus and also of the long term impact this is all going to have on our economy. We've also been hit by several other "large scale" crisis, that have never happened here before including a mass shooting where ore than 22 people died and scores more injured,  and if anything can take he edge off, even if it's just by wearing a mask with something ridiculous printed on it, it doesn't have to be a bad thing.

[Kitty Tantrum]

4 hours ago, regine_phalange said:

Just focus on not touching your face and go shopping early morning or in the evening to avoid sweating. Or if you are to suffer just arrange a home delivery. Even amazon delivers some longlife fooditems.

I've definitely done some strategic changing-up of my shopping habits, but there are those times when there's not much to be done for it. But it's not nearly as much of an issue when we stock up, because we just take hubby's vehicle. Sitting in the car on the way to the store doesn't ramp up heat production like walking. I've never been more grateful to have a husband with a car.

I will say this: grocery delivery apps are for people who buy retail quantities every few days, I've seen them deliver to a handful of neighbors and they all drive small sedans. They'd have to make two dedicated trips just for me. I dunno - do those services have order limits? I have a hard time imagining some of these petite ladies hauling my 50 lb bags of rice and flour, cases of #10 cans of tomatoes, etc. I think I'd get blacklisted unless I tipped way more than I could ever afford. 🤣

And everyone I've talked to agrees that you can't trust grocery delivery people to select good quality fresh stuff like meats and produce where there's a lot of variation - and that's 90% of what we eat. Same reason why I won't do curbside grocery pickup. The average person has NO IDEA how to gauge for ripeness/freshness/quality. And none of them can look at the thing I was GOING TO BUY and be like "no, that looks like crap, I'mma skip that and get this instead" and then adjust other purchases accordingly.

But I digress.

I guess my big question would be this: if you don't think ANYBODY should be exempt from the mask requirement, where do you draw the line for the sorts of situations people can be forced to wear them in? Could everybody have to wear one any time they walk out their front door, regardless of what they're doing or how many people are (or more relevantly, are NOT) around - no exemptions? Would it be legitimate to mandate that everyone has to wear one even IN their home - no exemptions? I have zero energy for debate but I am genuinely curious about people's FEELINGS.

[regine_phalange]

5 hours ago, Kitty Tantrum said:

I've definitely done some strategic changing-up of my shopping habits, but there are those times when there's not much to be done for it. But it's not nearly as much of an issue when we stock up, because we just take hubby's vehicle. Sitting in the car on the way to the store doesn't ramp up heat production like walking. I've never been more grateful to have a husband with a car.

I will say this: grocery delivery apps are for people who buy retail quantities every few days, I've seen them deliver to a handful of neighbors and they all drive small sedans. They'd have to make two dedicated trips just for me. I dunno - do those services have order limits? I have a hard time imagining some of these petite ladies hauling my 50 lb bags of rice and flour, cases of #10 cans of tomatoes, etc. I think I'd get blacklisted unless I tipped way more than I could ever afford. 🤣

And everyone I've talked to agrees that you can't trust grocery delivery people to select good quality fresh stuff like meats and produce where there's a lot of variation - and that's 90% of what we eat. Same reason why I won't do curbside grocery pickup. The average person has NO IDEA how to gauge for ripeness/freshness/quality. And none of them can look at the thing I was GOING TO BUY and be like "no, that looks like crap, I'mma skip that and get this instead" and then adjust other purchases accordingly.

But I digress.

I guess my big question would be this: if you don't think ANYBODY should be exempt from the mask requirement, where do you draw the line for the sorts of situations people can be forced to wear them in? Could everybody have to wear one any time they walk out their front door, regardless of what they're doing or how many people are (or more relevantly, are NOT) around - no exemptions? Would it be legitimate to mandate that everyone has to wear one even IN their home - no exemptions? I have zero energy for debate but I am genuinely curious about people's FEELINGS.

Personally I feel that people who are quadriplegic and people with severe developmental disorders and psychological illnesses (hospitalised) should not have to wear them. Also people who already have a great trouble breathing (even though Im sure these people would be very scared to be out with all the antimaskers). I think most people who truly would be exempt from wearing masks are isolating in their homes because partly they don't trust everyone will do their bit. I have been doing that as much as I can too, but sometimes it's not possible as I live alone. Still it can be scary having people talking loudly in the supermarket when they brush right next to you without a mask.

About wearing them at home, I think only if YOU invite a contractor to do work. If you dont wear one they should have the right to walk out. If you are outside then social distance should be more than enough. It's indoors areas that are the biggest problem, or outdoor areas where people are close together like concerts and some markets.

In general what I have been trying to express is yes, we have citizen rights but we also have obligations. Especially if we catch it and expect to be hospitalised and taken care of, taking one of the limited beds from someone who was considerate to others and cought it from people who didn't really care... and in some countries hospitalised with taxpayer money. If you see what happened in some european countries, drs had to choose who will be treated and who will be left to die. The aim is for fewer people to be ill at one given time so there is the capacity to treat them. And this, at least for me, makes the discomfort from the mask bearable.

 

[major_merrick]

13 hours ago, Kitty Tantrum said:

Same reason why I won't do curbside grocery pickup. The average person has NO IDEA how to gauge for ripeness/freshness/quality. And none of them can look at the thing I was GOING TO BUY and be like "no, that looks like crap, I'mma skip that and get this instead" and then adjust other purchases accordingly.

Yeah.  I find it irritating when people say "just do curbside pickup" as if it was so easy.  The average WalMartian is not likely to have the time, care, or intellect to properly select the merchandise I need.  And that's assuming it is in stock and they can find it.  And then there's the quantity limits....I don't get this thing folks have for daily shopping.  I buy in bulk so I don't waste tons of time.

If you want it done right, you gotta do it yourself.

[pepperbird2]

1 hour ago, major_merrick said:

Yeah.  I find it irritating when people say "just do curbside pickup" as if it was so easy.  The average WalMartian is not likely to have the time, care, or intellect to properly select the merchandise I need.  And that's assuming it is in stock and they can find it.  And then there's the quantity limits....I don't get this thing folks have for daily shopping.  I buy in bulk so I don't waste tons of time.

If you want it done right, you gotta do it yourself.

what some stores have done here is hold " senior/vulnerable persons" shopping hours. Everything gets disinfected to the hilt and then people who can't wear mask can shop.

personally, right now I'm more concerned with the number of flights coming i to Canada filled with people who go on to test positive for the virus. Seems some people just couldn't put off their vacations this summer.

[vjk]

On 8/16/2020 at 5:14 AM, QuietRiot said:

There is treatment for that condition, that said...she can wear a mask.

 

Brilliant, why didn't she think of getting treatment?  Months of suffering could have be avoided ......   LOL.   

 

 

  

[QuietRiot]

4 minutes ago, vjk said:

 

Brilliant, why didn't she think of getting treatment?  Months of suffering could have be avoided ......   LOL.   

 

 

  

I know, right? I always have an answer for when people make these excuses....and the answer is  a simple one. 😉

[vjk]

6 minutes ago, QuietRiot said:

I know, right? I always have an answer for when people make these excuses....and the answer is  a simple one. 😉

So, you don't believe there's physical pain.  I watched her cry as she tried to put a mask on going in Kohls last week.

 

Suggesting a cardboard box would be sensible.

Edited August 21, 2020 by vjk

[QuietRiot]

5 minutes ago, vjk said:

So, you don't believe there's physical pain. 

 

Suggesting a cardboard box would be sensible.

No, was talking about what you just stated. About getting treatment. Anyways, this is turning into a red herring argument regarding these little outlier situations. 

Edited August 21, 2020 by QuietRiot

[vjk]

Just now, QuietRiot said:

No, was talking about what you just stated. About getting treatment.

My point is anyone who has this is on lots of drugs.  It's nicknamed the suicide disease for a reason.

[elaine567]

On 8/18/2020 at 5:02 PM, pepperbird2 said:

what some stores have done here is hold " senior/vulnerable persons" shopping hours. Everything gets disinfected to the hilt and then people who can't wear mask can shop

So you have high risk vulnerable people mixing with others not wearing masks.
That is asking for trouble surely?

[pepperbird2]

57 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

So you have high risk vulnerable people mixing with others not wearing masks.
That is asking for trouble surely?

we haven't had a case here in weeks now.
we must be doing something right.

[Piddy]

My wife has been wearing the anti microbial masks and she likes them.  She's been trying different type masks for three months.

The anti microbial aren't heavy and are reversible and of course washable.  And the anti microbial protection won't wash out.

Edited August 22, 2020 by Piddy

[Kitty Tantrum]

On 8/21/2020 at 5:33 AM, QuietRiot said:

Anyways, this is turning into a red herring argument regarding these little outlier situations.

Aren't "little outlier situations" exactly why the exemptions exist tho?

[pepperbird2]

22 hours ago, Kitty Tantrum said:

Aren't "little outlier situations" exactly why the exemptions exist tho?

some will continue to have a very privileged attitude. it is what it is.follow the law where you live, and if they don't like it, tough.

Edited August 23, 2020 by pepperbird2

[major_merrick]

On ‎8‎/‎21‎/‎2020 at 7:26 AM, QuietRiot said:

I know, right? I always have an answer for when people make these excuses....and the answer is  a simple one. 😉

We seem to keep getting the same answer no matter what....even when it doesn't work and displays an utter lack of flexibility.  "One Trick Pony"

On ‎8‎/‎23‎/‎2020 at 1:56 PM, pepperbird2 said:

some will continue to have a very privileged attitude. it is what it is.follow the law where you live, and if they don't like it, tough.

My attitude has worked for me so far.  30+ years and life keeps getting better. 😇

Sarcasm aside, I think the mask debate is a lot like the gun control thing.  I'm beginning to use it as a an identifying test.... When I hear folks bleating about masks, I pretty much know their values and politics.  COVID has definitely made that easy.  In my area, maybe 10% of people wear masks in public.  Pretty easy to take a census of Democrats, with the exception of old folks concerned for their health.  So in one way I guess it is helpful. 

[Angelle]

19 minutes ago, major_merrick said:

We seem to keep getting the same answer no matter what....even when it doesn't work and displays an utter lack of flexibility.  "One Trick Pony"

My attitude has worked for me so far.  30+ years and life keeps getting better. 😇

Sarcasm aside, I think the mask debate is a lot like the gun control thing.  I'm beginning to use it as a an identifying test.... When I hear folks bleating about masks, I pretty much know their values and politics.  COVID has definitely made that easy.  In my area, maybe 10% of people wear masks in public.  Pretty easy to take a census of Democrats, with the exception of old folks concerned for their health.  So in one way I guess it is helpful. 

It's only reflective of certain attitudes in my area, not of either party as a whole. We aren't supposed to talk about politics here, otherwise I'd say more.