What have I gotten myself into?

[Ladyjane14]

....and despite what I may have wrote earlier I caved like a termite ridden tenement.

 

Well, I for one and glad you're "blogging on" then, because I always enjoy your sense of humor! :laugh:

You've got a way with words, MLC.

 

I like this part too. I'm glad you posted it:

I made a conscious decision to start being happy, to find joy in life and take it as it comes.

 

It's decisive and puts you in the driver's seat of YOUR life. You know, until this past couple of years, I never realized how much control we really do have regarding the choice to be happy. You hear about it all the time, but until you actually try it yourself...it's all just so much wind in your ear.

 

It's possible to be conscious in your daily life in a way that makes it difficult for other people to affect the quality of it. And all we have to do is to make active choices for ourselves. It's amazing really.

[midlifecrazy]

Glad you're still following along LJ. Now for the news of DG, a little more today than I had expected to post originally. Had to go to the supermarket yesterday. As I was checking out I glanced over to the video section they have and saw her there with her grandchild. This was totally unexpected as I hadn't seen her for some time and it was not the normal day or time she used to show up there.

 

I was glad to see her because she looked like she was doing pretty well after all she's been through, and I have thought often of her. She didn't notice me and I didn't want to intrude so I took my purchases and left.

 

Today I had to make a return trip to the store, again this was at a time I wouldn't expect to see her. But in the checkout line I looked up and saw her in line one or two people behind me. This time she saw me. I smiled and said "Hi,DG" and she smiled and said hi back. Again I took my stuff and left. Maybe I should have hung back and asked how she was doing but there was no way of doing that without being pretty obvious about it. And I don't want to cause her any pain or discomfort at all by bringing things to mind if maybe she's put them out of her thoughts for a moment.

 

So anyway I went on my way but I have to admit it felt really good to see her and especially to see her smile. I also have to say it gave me the old flipflops in the belly again. And of course once again the world is filled with portents and omens, Both days she was parked almost right next to my car. and significant songs and movies fill the airways. Wow, it's still a rush I cannot crush though I know nothing can ever come of it. Maybe I'll just put this down as something to enjoy as it is for whatever it's worth. C'est la vie! C'est l'amour.

[Ditherer]

Hi there MLC, glad to see you're still here.

 

Funny how you've got more to say about DG than about your marriage.. is that significant? Have you given up on DG or not? If not, don't you wonder (as I wonder with my situation) how committed you are to your marriage?

 

Take care,

Dith

[Guest]

Hi,

I've been checking these posts because I am in a similar situation. And I feel that sometimes in these forums we do never speak of how horribly impossible it is to control your thoughts and obsessions.

I do not know how you feel about your wife. But I know in my case, I cannot find any better, in the real world, than what i have at home. life is what it is, romance does not last forever, and at the end you are lucky if you have a best friend that truly gets you and supports you.

I am thus blessed but yet the ups and downs of the relationship have brought me to a point where I've developed an enormous infatuation in someone I cannot help but see on a weekly basis. I am holding tight but I cannot stop my head from spinning. How do you stop this obsession? You can try to think of something else, but when you just cannot even fall asleep because you cannot stop it, I wonder what there is to do.

I've decided to wait and hope it passes. The key I think is knowing, really knowing, that the person you are married to is the person for you. I believe that deep inside we do know this. Infatuated with somebody else or not, I know that the level of understanding and compatibility I have with my husband will not be matched. THe issues we have have to do with our flaws as people. I know better than to believe they would not arise with another person because they come from within me, at least some of them.

What I wonder sometimes is whether I should be married at all. If this is how immature my brain is when I have the ideal partner, maybe i just belong with a bunch of cats instead.

But at least I know this about my husband. Is that the way you feel about your wife? Do you feel that you will not find better, when it comes down to it? Because if you know that, it definitely is a start...

best luck to you

guest

[Guest]

Hi,

I've been checking these posts because I am in a similar situation. And I feel that sometimes in these forums we do never speak of how horribly impossible it is to control your thoughts and obsessions.

 

I'm in the same situation too! And I don't know what to make of the obssessive thoughts - - there just is no good way to get rid of them. We probably don't write about how to control them because this is one of life's little mysteries.

 

What I wonder sometimes is whether I should be married at all. If this is how immature my brain is when I have the ideal partner, maybe i just belong with a bunch of cats instead.

But at least I know this about my husband. Is that the way you feel about your wife? Do you feel that you will not find better, when it comes down to it? Because if you know that, it definitely is a start...

best luck to you

guest

 

thanks for the laugh! "belong with a bunch of cats instead"

 

I think, though, what you and I and MLC are suffering is not so uncommon so don't be so hard on yourself (I mean I like cats, but living with a bunch of them instead of marriage? not a good strategy for what the immature brain craves - - lots of different varieties of infatuation... how would you get anyone over to your place if you have 20 cats?)

 

thanks for writing, it really helped me when I needed it.

[whichwayisup]

there just is no good way to get rid of them.

 

There is. You make yourself get out of the habit. When your thoughts wander to him/her, you think of something else. Don't let your mind GO there, keep busy and distract yourself.

 

A crush is a crush and they're fun ... But if you're thinking of your crush TOO much, that isn't an innocent crush anymore, it's taking it to the next level in your head. That is why MLC is SO aware of DG. Nothing is ever going to come of it, so WHY he is really so into her still? He is allowing feelings to develope. (Hense the flipflop in the stomach, noticing songs on the radio that may 'mean' something because of the words and seeing how close her car is to his...All coincidences or wanting to see what you want to see...??)

[lust4life]

Maybe we all just need to get laid GOOD!!!

 

 

AND btw , I have been here since YOUR begining, I guess I didn't make an impression....

[midlifecrazy]

No slight intended, L4L, I know I've seen your posts before. Last one just sounded like you might have forgotten some of this epic. Getting laid takes the edge off a little but once every 6 to 8 weeks or more just isn't getting the job done!

 

And I really still don't think it's just the sex. If that were the case I could hire it done and quit worrying about it. Sappy as it sounds it's the romance, the "being in love" feeling I crave. I do try to put DG out of my mind, I don't think about her all the time. But then something will pop up to remind me of her. I can go for months without seeing her but then I'll run into her again and then I'll feel like a giddy 15 year old. I know absolutely nothing will ever come of this so why does it keep happening? Maybe I'm like Cyrano or something, doomed to love hopelessly from afar. Or maybe I just like the idea and the feeling I get of being in love, however hopeless it may be. Maybe there is something wrong with me. Oh yeah, almost forgot I'm mlCRAZY.

 

Then there's this. MW gave me a Valentines Day card on which she writes "I love you more than you'll ever know" She may be right because I just don't feel it coming from her. She's always distant in showing affection and most of the time it feels as if she can barely stand me, let alone love me. How can she say one thing yet act completely different. If she does love me like that why can't I feel it?(probably an answer somewhere in this paragraph to the one above).

[Ladyjane14]

MW gave me a Valentines Day card on which she writes "I love you more than you'll ever know" She may be right because I just don't feel it coming from her.

 

This was the realization that changed my attitude toward my husband, MLC. What good was there in loving him if he couldn't feel it?

 

When that 'lightbulb' finally came on....it changed the way I view the world altogether.

[lust4life]

The last sentence you should take directly to the source. I do not think your wife could possibly happy if you are unhappy.

 

You don't seem crazy. It does seem you have gotten a little outlet in your fantasy of another woman. HOPE that life isn't just this maybe...

[KnowHowLoveFeels]

Hi MLC,

Thanks for your posts. I think you are the romantic type. You need passion in life. Some people on this forum just don't get it. A good marriage is not the same as feeling "ALIVE" from being wanted and wanting something from your spouse. I, too, would be considered to have it "all." I have a "good" husband - he provides very well for the family; he does't do drugs, drink, or smoke; he doesn't hit or verbally abuse the kids or me. I am staying in my marriage because it is indeed easy to to do so.

 

So is it wrong to want MORE out of life? Are we getting too greedy - and perphaps, a little egotistical - to want to feel the rush?

 

Granted, let me say that my husband is very loving in bed. He loves me, I know. It is hard to explain what I am going through in my mind. I am just not here, with him, anymore. I know that I need to work on my marriage and myself.... Something is not right here.... I have been thinking - no, obsessing - about the fact that I am a bad wife. I have been reprimanding myself, over and over again, that I am a horrible wife, that i don't deserve this marriage....

[Makeitstop]

MLC and KHLF...you should spice things up then. What exactly do you want to do that is exciting? Make love on a beach? Candlelight dinner during a bullfight? (not sure about that one..) or dancing in the rain? Make it happen! Don't tell your SOs. Just leave a note out and an outfit. Tell them to meet you here or there and begin the fantasy. Go out to a bar and pretend like your picking your wife up MLC. Or go dancing and pretend like you are rubbin up on your husband KHLF and trying to get him to ask you home.

 

You aren't horrible for wanting passion in your marriages. What's bad is when you actually leap dangerously to find it elsewhere. Curb your thoughts MLC. That's the first sign of infidelity. If you start thinking about it then at some point you are going to do it. Even if you know it hurts the other person, as long as you don't get caught, you'll like it. So curb your thoughts. It's true when it's said that infidelity starts in the mind. Make your fantasies about your SOs instead of another person. Try different positions in the bedroom or go elsewhere outside and try it.

 

They can't read your minds. You want something more exciting in your marriage then you have to spark it. You only get out of your marriage what you put in.

[midlifecrazy]

You know I really feel sorry for MW (no cheap shots,please!). She just seems to always find the cloud over every silver lining. It's like "Wow that was a great meal, but I'll probably get indigestion later" or "That was a great movie, but the tickets cost too much", always something, always a downer.

 

I try to maintain a positive outlook, but it's hard to do when you're constantly around someone who is always depressed. I know she has issues and some basis for some of her feelings. Even though it was so long ago I realize how badly it affected her. Still I can't help but feel that she tends to use it sometimes as an excuse to wallow in self pity. Those of you who have followed this story know I have tried to get her to do something to help herself and that she has refused and denied every step of the way.

 

There's a free preview of some cable channels this weekend. MW was flipping thru and ran across a channel where a nude couple were in a passionate embrace. Her response? "How disgusting!" It wasn't hardcore porn or anything close. That's just her attitude toward anything of a sexual nature. So thanks for all the suggestions about erotic games and scenarios but none of that gets off the launching pad (I've tried). She's just not that into me, despite "loving me more than I know".

 

I've been keeping track of how often we make love, it's not hard to do. I'm thinking about changing it to just how often she makes any kind of physical contact with me at all. Sadly that won't be hard to do either. I found myself today refraining from reaching out to touch her shoulder just because it seems she doesn't desire even my touch and also I get so damned tired of giving all the time and getting nothing in return.

 

Then there's the way she talks to me. Most of the time it has that "it annoys me to even have to speak to you" edge to it.

 

I've wanted this to work. All of my life is invested in it. I know what I've said before. But I think of my life stretching out before me and this situation probably doing nothing but getting worse and I don't know if I can take it. I haven't cheated. I don't have another woman waiting in the wings. If this ends it will be a damnable mess. But I'm beginning to wonder how much longer I can go on like this.

[whichwayisup]

I think you need to tell her exactly what you said here. Let her know HOW it makes you feel when she talks to you. And that you're afraid of touching her and holding her because she is going to reject you. Can you two atleast discuss this sort of thing out in the open, consider counselling? This can't go on forever, the more she pulls away from you the more you're shutting her out and closing yourself off too.

 

Do you love her? Because you may have to be the one to actually DO something to fix your marriage. She is content as things are, settled and comfortable...Obviously you aren't so it's time to speak up! Atleast saying it outloud SOMETHING will happen, good or bad, but not knowing and living life as it is, isn't working.

[KnowHowLoveFeels]

WWIU,

MC has already tried many times to tell his wife what he wants/needs from her. She is asexual and doesn't see anything wrong with that. This is a tough situation, and I commend MC for hanging in there.

 

MC,

I know exactly how it feels when your requests and opinions are ignored. Have you always lived this way? I mean, is she always this way in regards to sex? If so, why does it bother you now?

[Ladyjane14]

.....I have tried to get her to do something to help herself and that she has refused and denied every step of the way.

 

What are the consequences in her refusal to seek treatment on her depression?

 

NONE. NADA. ZIP. There's never been any reason for her to change, MLC.

 

This is your original thread: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t57880/

Note the date of your first post. It's been a little over a year ago. Back on that thread we talked about giving it six months. It's been twice that now.

 

Don't you think it's time to 'up the ante'????

 

You know, it wasn't until my husband heard the words, "I met with a lawyer this morning...." that he was willing to change 'the way he does business'. It NEVER occurred to him that I would really leave.

 

Like I told you before, it's unwise to issue an ultimatum that you're not willing and able to back up. In my situation, it wasn't even an "ultimatum" at all. At the time, I had no intention of giving him another chance. It wasn't an 'either/or' proposition. I meant what I said. It's just good fortune that we were able to turn it around.

 

That said, (and as we discussed a year ago)....THE ULTIMATUM has it's uses.

 

There comes a point at which you have to take responsibility for your own happiness, MLC. It's not anyone else's job to make YOU happy. If the relationship that you have with your wife is unsatisfactory, then it's incumbant upon YOU to address it. The longer you continue to avoid conflict and accept the status quo the longer you will continue to deal with this angst. You are a volunteer and not a victim when you refuse to step up to the plate and problem-solve.

 

When you review your posts of the last year, you'll see that you vacillate back and forth between wanting to stay and wanting to go. This particular aspect of the problem is NOT due to your wife. IT'S YOU. You haven't ever decided what it is that you truly want. You've never thrown yourself into it at 100% to either 'make it or break it'.

 

I can't blame you for that. It's unnerving to say the least, when you put that much of yourself out there. But that's what it takes. You either come out a winner....getting all you wanted from the relationship. Or you lose what you had before. It's real-life Let's Make a Deal, where you COMMIT yourself to Door Number One without reserving any other options. Scary, huh?

 

But the alternative is to live out the rest of your life in your current state of unchosen apathy.

 

You wife has become 'the wet blanket' that prevents you from being happy in your daily life. I'm not sure if that's a matter of fact or of perception....but either way, it's got to be addressed because it leaves you with a target for passive behavior. It keeps you from taking a proactive approach to YOUR life.

[KnowHowLoveFeels]

There comes a point at which you have to take responsibility for your own happiness, MLC. It's not anyone else's job to make YOU happy. If the relationship that you have with your wife is unsatisfactory, then it's incumbant upon YOU to address it. The longer you continue to avoid conflict and accept the status quo the longer you will continue to deal with this angst. You are a volunteer and not a victim when you refuse to step up to the plate and problem-solve.

 

When you review your posts of the last year, you'll see that you vacillate back and forth between wanting to stay and wanting to go. This particular aspect of the problem is NOT due to your wife. IT'S YOU. You haven't ever decided what it is that you truly want. You've never thrown yourself into it at 100% to either 'make it or break it'.

 

But the alternative is to live out the rest of your life in your current state of unchosen apathy.

 

LadyJane,

Well said. So many goood points on your post, but I like the above quote the best. I will take these words to heart, as well. I am not a vacillator... rather, I am "stuck." My kids are still so young and I need 2 more years to finish my committment at the U.

 

In the meantime, I am working on being a stronger person.

[Ladyjane14]

I am not a vacillator... rather, I am "stuck." My kids are still so young and I need 2 more years to finish my committment at the U.

 

If it helps you any to know it, KHLF.....there was a time when I felt "stuck" too. Back when my kids were small, some days I felt like I almost hated my husband. I felt trapped.

 

It gets better though. After a while, your kids aren't so young and needy and as your sense of CRUSHING responsibility is somewhat relieved....you realize that you have the keys to your own cage and always have. In the early years, when your kids need constant supervision just to keep them from destroying themselves through their own stupidity, your level of anxiety is CRAZY.

 

I think back on it and I wonder if I wasn't just looking for someone to blame. I wasn't exactly chained in the dungeon as a prisoner, but I surely did feel trapped by my circumstances just the same.

 

Weird thing is though, that after a time, your kids stop bumping their heads on the coffee table and they stop wandering off in the WalMart, and before you know it....you're breathing again.

And once some of the daily stress is relieved, you look down and realize that 'the keys to your cage' were ALWAYS right there in your hand.

 

Never think that you aren't making a CHOICE to be where you are. When you feel "trapped", it's a trap of your own making....therefore, just an illusion. There are ALWAYS other alternatives.

 

So, once you realize that you're making a choice, you're more fully able to EMBRACE it. You can feel free to give 100% to it when you know you've selected it for yourself.

[KnowHowLoveFeels]

If it helps you any to know it, KHLF.....there was a time when I felt "stuck" too. Back when my kids were small, some days I felt like I almost hated my husband. I felt trapped.

 

Never think that you aren't making a CHOICE to be where you are. When you feel "trapped", it's a trap of your own making....therefore, just an illusion. There are ALWAYS other alternatives.

 

So, once you realize that you're making a choice, you're more fully able to EMBRACE it. You can feel free to give 100% to it when you know you've selected it for yourself.

 

Thanks, LadyJane!

I like that kind of thinking. It makes me feel like I am in control.

I have to admit that I always felt that I was cheated into marrying my husband. I have always felt that this is not what I wanted.... But you are right, if I look really hard into my marriage, it is probably like most marriages out there. My husband is always thinking about his business. When we do talk, he talks about numbers - not his feelings, the kids, or me.

 

You have been so helpful to me. I have also resumed seeing my therapist. I don't know what it is that I want anymore. Perhaps, more meds?

 

From now on, I have to think that I am choosing to stay in this marriage.

[Mz. Pixie]

What are the consequences in her refusal to seek treatment on her depression?

 

NONE. NADA. ZIP. There's never been any reason for her to change, MLC.

 

This is your original thread: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t57880/

Note the date of your first post. It's been a little over a year ago. Back on that thread we talked about giving it six months. It's been twice that now.

 

Don't you think it's time to 'up the ante'????

 

You know, it wasn't until my husband heard the words, "I met with a lawyer this morning...." that he was willing to change 'the way he does business'. It NEVER occurred to him that I would really leave.

 

Like I told you before, it's unwise to issue an ultimatum that you're not willing and able to back up. In my situation, it wasn't even an "ultimatum" at all. At the time, I had no intention of giving him another chance. It wasn't an 'either/or' proposition. I meant what I said. It's just good fortune that we were able to turn it around.

 

That said, (and as we discussed a year ago)....THE ULTIMATUM has it's uses.

 

There comes a point at which you have to take responsibility for your own happiness, MLC. It's not anyone else's job to make YOU happy. If the relationship that you have with your wife is unsatisfactory, then it's incumbant upon YOU to address it. The longer you continue to avoid conflict and accept the status quo the longer you will continue to deal with this angst. You are a volunteer and not a victim when you refuse to step up to the plate and problem-solve.

 

When you review your posts of the last year, you'll see that you vacillate back and forth between wanting to stay and wanting to go. This particular aspect of the problem is NOT due to your wife. IT'S YOU. You haven't ever decided what it is that you truly want. You've never thrown yourself into it at 100% to either 'make it or break it'.

 

I can't blame you for that. It's unnerving to say the least, when you put that much of yourself out there. But that's what it takes. You either come out a winner....getting all you wanted from the relationship. Or you lose what you had before. It's real-life Let's Make a Deal, where you COMMIT yourself to Door Number One without reserving any other options. Scary, huh?

 

But the alternative is to live out the rest of your life in your current state of unchosen apathy.

 

You wife has become 'the wet blanket' that prevents you from being happy in your daily life. I'm not sure if that's a matter of fact or of perception....but either way, it's got to be addressed because it leaves you with a target for passive behavior. It keeps you from taking a proactive approach to YOUR life.

 

Bravo LJ!!! In other words less politely, "Poop or get off the pot"

 

MLC- we feel for you, really we do. But we keep saying the same thing over and over basically..... only you can change your life!

[midlifecrazy]

Ah, LadyJ, I love hearing from you. There's always something that seems to pop out at me in your advice. And you don't let me get away with much. You nailed me for sure with that "avoiding conflict" comment. Yep, that's me. When I perceive an attack or a slight, I close the shutters, raise the drawbridge and hunker down and usually don't fire back until they're scaling the walls.

 

You're right about there being no consequences for her actions also. The storm blows over, Vesuvius quiets and things go back to the status quo. And WWIU had good advice too. I need to start telling her each and every time she does or says something hurtful to me instead of rolling up into a ball. When she pulls away from my touch I need to call her on it. After all what's to lose? She's not going to leave and if she gets in a bad mood, well there's nothing new about that.

 

KnowHow, yeah sex has always been a problem. Somewhat like you I stayed for the kids thinking after they were raised she might make time for me. Didn't work out that way. Last one only has been out of the house a few years and during those years there has been an enormous amount of outside turmoil in our lives. Things have just really settled down in the past couple of years.

 

More to say on why I've stayed but no time to say it now. Later folks.

[whichwayisup]

And WWIU had good advice too. I need to start telling her each and every time she does or says something hurtful to me instead of rolling up into a ball. When she pulls away from my touch I need to call her on it. After all what's to lose? She's not going to leave and if she gets in a bad mood, well there's nothing new about

 

That is true.

 

I don't think any of us like conflict and arguements, it SUCKS. But, it happens and sometimes it's the only way to solve problems. A good heated discussion.

 

It's time for YOU to take the bull by the horns and react. Maybe that is what SHE is waiting for??? Maybe, maybe not? I tell ya, you will feel better if you SAY something, show her how it hurts you when she pulls away when you go to touch her. And when she does anything else that makes you feel bad, TELL her. Don't run from it - I think once it is all out in the open, both of you atleast have a starting point to talk and listen to eachother.

[Ladyjane14]

....And you don't let me get away with much.

 

 

And WWIU had good advice too. I need to start telling her each and every time she does or says something hurtful to me instead of rolling up into a ball. When she pulls away from my touch I need to call her on it. After all what's to lose? She's not going to leave and if she gets in a bad mood, well there's nothing new about that.

 

YES!!!! Exactly so. You have NOTHING to lose by calling her into account.

 

Will she behave reactively? Yup, you betcha. But what she will NOT be doing....is ignoring you. And THAT my friend is progress!

 

You don't have to be mean and nasty in order to speak your peace. All you have to do is just 'put it out there'. Her reaction is NOT your responsibility. Your only responsibility is to NOT withhold valuable information. In order to do that MLC, you have to realize that your emotional contribution has merit. It has VALUE.

 

When you aren't giving her your feelings, you negate the importance of them in your wife's daily life. She has no data from you to base her day-to-day decisions on.

[Guest]

Um. . . your wife is suffering from a mental illness, right? You mentioned her depression a few times. And you hinted about this abuse, I'm thinking probably sexual abuse in her past, an incredibly common problem. Hating sex is not natural, and it sounds like you know the real story with her history and why she would act the way she does now. The first step would be to find a counselor for her, and probably antidepressants if she's not already on them. It's tempting to just stay mad and blame her, but she's obviously suffering, which is very sad. As long as you focus on what she's not doing for you, you can avoid dealing with the grief of living with such sadness for so long. Feeling gypped is a lot easier than feeling lost and helpless. About the other woman, I couldn't begin to tell you. I cheated once in the far past and really enjoyed it. But I was only 22 and should never have been living with someone that young anyway, so that's no help with your sitch. If I were in your shoes I would try not to hate myself either way, whether I cheated or not. But I would feel responsible to insist she get some help, just like with an alcoholic partner. Actually it's probably commendable of you to slog it out so long without turning to substances or substitutes. . . but it's not doing anything for her. I mean, she's obviously not having a blast in life.

[midlifecrazy]

Yes Guest, it was sexual abuse. Something I just found out about around a year ago. She's been on antidepressants in the past but didn't like them and won't stay on them or try anything else. As far as counseling, she won't go. The one time I did manage to drag her into one she simply clammed up. Denial may not be the right word but she must be very deeply traumatized as she absolutely refuses to entertain the idea of seeking professional or any other type of help. That's what people are meaning when talking about giving her an ultimatum, "get help or I'm finished".

 

I have trouble getting past the idea that something that will only add to her problems. Also I know it will do no good. She won't go. And despite everything I guess I'm not ready to call her bluff yet because in my heart I'm not ready to leave. I honestly don't know what to do to help someone who refuses to be helped.

 

I know it sucks to feel like she does. But what can I do? She's been down all week for no apparent reason. She doesn't say so but I can tell. And yeah shes said a few hurtful things and I did speak up calmly telling her if something she said or did made me feel bad. It actually did make me feel better to get it off my chest instead of letting it fester. But it probably didn't help her any.

 

I'm no saint either. There was a time about a third of the way into our marriage when I was drinking quite a bit, a six-pack or so every night when I got home from work. Once she asked me why I was drinking so much. I told her it was my substitute for sex. Her reaction, basically "Oh,ok then, carry on. Can I get you another?" I eventually realized that was a bad course to take and quit drinking years ago.