Moods

[BMI03]

Venting here...

With COVID, we have been splitting child care duties. I start my workday from home at around 7am, and she handles our two year old for the morning to noon period. Then, she gets ready and heads to work for 1pm until anywhere from 5-8pm. I continue to put my work day in until 5-6pm, juggling our child while I work (sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't). 

She's been having issues with her boss the last while. Her boss respects her and they are close, but her boss pulls some s**t on others some and my wife calls her out on it. So they had one of those days yesterday. Over the last month or so those days have been more often than not.

She got home late and I could feel it in the air that it was one of those moods where she is going to look for a reason to fight. So I asked simple questions. I've been here before and I HATE that tension in the air that tells me things are going to go sour even before thee is a reason. I'm tense, walking on eggshells, wondering what step is going to be the land mine.

Then she asked me why I seemed a bit quiet. I took the approach I thought would best bring this issue to the forefront (she knows overall it's an issue), so told her that I have that sense that she's looking for a fight, and so I'm nervous about what to say. That was enough...into the bedroom she went for alone time. We interacted mildly in case for our child, but she slept in the other room and I haven't seen her since.

For those who have read other posts of mine, my wife is a wonderful woman most of the time. But when she's stressed, she lashes out. She seems to enjoy a conflict and I can tell when it's coming. It's doesn't matter what the cause of her agitation is, but when she's in that state of mind, she's ready to make a bit deal out of small things. 

Don't think much to be done...this way of processing things in turn makes me angry. I unfortunately have my own unhealthy way to deal with anger, which is to storm on the inside but be kind, gentle, and understanding externally. A way of being that gets us to a calmer place, but which leaves me with internal residue of anger and resentment for the treatment.

Anyway, just a vent.

[curlygirl40]

Have you heard of John Gottman?    He has written books, has talks on YouTube, etc.    Worth a look into him.    

[Wiseman2]

Does she know dumping and displacing anger on you is toxic? Marriage therapy may help get the cards on the table for better ways to deal with stress.

[RedBaron2765]

Your wife sounds like how my wife was when our twins were around that age.  In our case, she was getting a lot of stress from her sister (who is nothing more than a blame-shifting, mooching, PITA drama queen) who was going through her latest divorce (she's had several, so she's an expert on divorce court), and my wife would take it out on me.  I was like you, walking on eggshells trying to make sure that nothing happened to set her off (which never worked), but on the inside I'd be raging.    Finally figured out that if/when she got this way, I'd bite back.  It did help. 

 

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Why does your wife feel it's her duty to be her boss's moral compass?

[BMI03]

On 7/28/2020 at 6:34 PM, curlygirl40 said:

Have you heard of John Gottman?    He has written books, has talks on YouTube, etc.    Worth a look into him.    

Sorry, I never came back to this one...was more of a vent. No I will check that out. Thanks!

[BMI03]

On 7/28/2020 at 10:22 PM, Wiseman2 said:

Does she know dumping and displacing anger on you is toxic? Marriage therapy may help get the cards on the table for better ways to deal with stress.

Ya, she knows. After the initial mood, a more logical self comes out and is apologetic. I know each time that it will get there, but but then I am steaming angry for the treatment. I agree Marriage therapy is a good idea for this, but I honestly think there is a bit of personal therapy she needs on this topic first. She agrees, but just hasn't gotten around to doing anything about it.

[BMI03]

On 8/14/2020 at 1:04 PM, RedBaron2765 said:

Your wife sounds like how my wife was when our twins were around that age.  In our case, she was getting a lot of stress from her sister (who is nothing more than a blame-shifting, mooching, PITA drama queen) who was going through her latest divorce (she's had several, so she's an expert on divorce court), and my wife would take it out on me.  I was like you, walking on eggshells trying to make sure that nothing happened to set her off (which never worked), but on the inside I'd be raging.    Finally figured out that if/when she got this way, I'd bite back.  It did help. 

 

Ya that sounds spot on with my situation. With my wife it can be work and her boss, family and their pains, friends who don' t take her advice, stresses of parenthood, etc. The one that bothers me the most is when it's related to her being the 'woman of the house' that I continually tell her she doesn't need to be.

What I mean is, I like to cook. I am not the greatest at it, but I am not horrible, and there are a number of dishes I make which dishes my wife likes. She is a really good cook. I would like to split the cooking 50/50...lets divide the days, and both take turns. She wants to 'own' it however, with me contributing now and then, because she thinks that's part of her role as a good wife (I disagree by the way). Ideas of mine that I try and give land as inputs into her decision making at best, and less collaborative conversation. I say "How about I make X tonight" and she says "I was already thinking I would do Y". Then she does Y.

It's evolved into a state where I make suggestions but don't take actions without 'ok-ing' it with her because she has objected to my ideas so often. She calls the shots effectively then because I rarely ever object to her counter-ideas for dinner. I don't like that, and I have protested against it by just making decisions sometimes similar to her to see where it lands, and it isn't very pleasant. Anyhow, she takes this on, until a day out of the blue when work and parenting stresses converge and then that day is the one where she blows up, says it's stressful to always have to decide what to cook, etc. She knows otherwise, and will come around later to say she gets it, but there is another egg shell moment. It drives me MAD. I am constantly putting ideas in front of her for a collaborative dinner making approach that are continually objected to so she can decided to do what she wants to do instead, trying to guess which day she's going to break, to line up which day I should assertively just cook what I want anyway to avoid the blow up that she has to own the cooking plans. It is a game that I am rigged to lose at every time and it's infuriating. 

[Wiseman2]

14 minutes ago, BMI03 said:

Ya, she knows. After the initial mood, a more logical self comes out and is apologetic. I know each time that it will get there, but but then I am steaming angry for the treatment. I agree Marriage therapy is a good idea for this, but I honestly think there is a bit of personal therapy she needs on this topic first. She agrees, but just hasn't gotten around to doing anything about it.

Absolutely she would benefit from seeing a doctor for an evaluation. Could be anything.  Let a physician help her. That often goes over better than "you need therapy". but ends up in the same place. If she has mood disorders, hormonal ,chemical, etc imbalances she may need medical treatment..

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

She's probably totally exhausted.  She gets an active two year old all morning while you, presumably, have a napping child for much of "your time."  She has to be ON all day.  It sounds like a really tiring way to live....she's essentially working 12-13 hour days without a break.

Also, FWIW, when my youngest was 2 I was diagnosed with PMDD.  Meds helped me be a normal person for 2 years.  She could have something hormonal going on that contributes to her having a harder time handling stress and fatigue.

[Timshel]

When my kids were little, I was a nut.  Everything was sparkling and I had to do everything.  It's only nesting/type A.  I think it will pass.  However, put your foot down, I mean just be boss, take over and say phfft.

You are a great partner and parent.  Sometimes being assertive is a good thing. 

[amerikajin]

On 7/28/2020 at 8:34 PM, curlygirl40 said:

Have you heard of John Gottman?    He has written books, has talks on YouTube, etc.    Worth a look into him.    

I second this suggestion - I've read one of his books and he's insightful. Even if it doesn't save your relationship, it will help you understand more about how men and women (and all people) view relationships. People have "love languages." I had no clue until I read that book, but he's spot on.

[amerikajin]

18 hours ago, BMI03 said:

What I mean is, I like to cook. I am not the greatest at it, but I am not horrible, and there are a number of dishes I make which dishes my wife likes. She is a really good cook. I would like to split the cooking 50/50...lets divide the days, and both take turns. She wants to 'own' it however, with me contributing now and then, because she thinks that's part of her role as a good wife (I disagree by the way). Ideas of mine that I try and give land as inputs into her decision making at best, and less collaborative conversation. I say "How about I make X tonight" and she says "I was already thinking I would do Y". Then she does Y.

It's evolved into a state where I make suggestions but don't take actions without 'ok-ing' it with her because she has objected to my ideas so often. She calls the shots effectively then because I rarely ever object to her counter-ideas for dinner. I don't like that, and I have protested against it by just making decisions sometimes similar to her to see where it lands, and it isn't very pleasant. Anyhow, she takes this on, until a day out of the blue when work and parenting stresses converge and then that day is the one where she blows up, says it's stressful to always have to decide what to cook, etc. She knows otherwise, and will come around later to say she gets it, but there is another egg shell moment. It drives me MAD. I am constantly putting ideas in front of her for a collaborative dinner making approach that are continually objected to so she can decided to do what she wants to do instead, trying to guess which day she's going to break, to line up which day I should assertively just cook what I want anyway to avoid the blow up that she has to own the cooking plans. It is a game that I am rigged to lose at every time and it's infuriating. 

It sounds like a power struggle, which inevitably happens in long-term relationships. Fighting over who gets to do what and how it's done, and then fighting over who's being passive and who's 'doing all the work around here.'

[BMI03]

On 8/24/2020 at 1:37 PM, Wiseman2 said:

Absolutely she would benefit from seeing a doctor for an evaluation. Could be anything.  Let a physician help her. That often goes over better than "you need therapy". but ends up in the same place. If she has mood disorders, hormonal ,chemical, etc imbalances she may need medical treatment..

She knows she is managing some issues. She has depression, and gets anxiety. She's on regular medication for depression, and anxiety on an as-needed basis. She has in theory agreed to therapy/counselling for herself...she understands that growing up in a civil war to a single parent with lots of violence around her wasn't healthy even though it was her norm. She often says she will but has never followed through...most recently because of the COVID lock downs...

[BMI03]

On 8/24/2020 at 2:16 PM, CautiouslyOptimistic said:

She's probably totally exhausted.  She gets an active two year old all morning while you, presumably, have a napping child for much of "your time."  She has to be ON all day.  It sounds like a really tiring way to live....she's essentially working 12-13 hour days without a break.

Also, FWIW, when my youngest was 2 I was diagnosed with PMDD.  Meds helped me be a normal person for 2 years.  She could have something hormonal going on that contributes to her having a harder time handling stress and fatigue.

Fair observation. Unfortunately the sequence of the day is more like this...as mentioned, plan is that she takes care of our 2 year old exclusively during the morning hours so I can get some focused work done, then she leaves for work around noon, and I work and balance 2 year old from home for afternoon, and then I take care of him in the evenings until she finishes work around 8pm.

Unfortunately my wife likes / needs her sleep. We both stays up late (1-2am) each night, and she may wake up and read a little. So by morning  she's tired. So in execution it works more like this:

- I get up between 6-7am for work; Son wakes up around 8-9am and comes out to join me; Wife keeps sleeping (75% of the time...other 25% she gets up with him and goes back to sleep on the couch after an hour so she's around while he plays); I make son toast or something quick to eat between meetings; Son plays; Son interrupts my work; I try to balance him and work and put on a TV show; about 10-11am wife gets up; Son passes back and forth between us while she gets ready; She tries to make him some food before she leaves (60-70% success rate). Afternoon I try to put him down for a nap around 1-1:30pm...he naps for anywhere from 30min to 1.5 hours...I balance him for remainder of work to 5-6pm; I spend evening taking him out for a bike ride, playing, etc.  She gets home, makes supper (if I haven't already fed Son...but he often will not eat a sizable table meal other than small things until she is with us); I clean up after supper and she baths son...we alternate who puts him to bed.

The above has been frustrating for me because it feels like she's not keeping up her half of the child coverage. We have spoken (debated? fought?) about it before to which she has said she will stop going to work if it will help, to which I told her I don't need her to provide MORE coverage...I just need her to cover the time we discussed. It's led to some turn around in the short term, but nothing lasting.

I think as I write this it highlights that I think it all comes back to her depression. Some days she has a hard time getting out of bed. The smallest things can become the biggest barriers. Today she didn't get out of bed until noon time. It's not uncommon for me to go in and ask around 11am if she's getting up only to have that question highlight that she's late, and it lead to her staying in bed and calling in sick. I think sometimes she had a hard time facing the day and it's like walking through a mine field trying to navigate how to interact with her. I never know if it's a good day, or one where anything will spark her off...either in anger and a fight, or push her down into a dark hole she has trouble coming out of.

The more I type the more this all feels like a product of her depression. While frustrated and tense about it, I'm not angry at her at all...I just want to help her face the day, and find a way to navigate the mine field.

[BMI03]

On 8/24/2020 at 9:13 PM, Timshel said:

When my kids were little, I was a nut.  Everything was sparkling and I had to do everything.  It's only nesting/type A.  I think it will pass.  However, put your foot down, I mean just be boss, take over and say phfft.

You are a great partner and parent.  Sometimes being assertive is a good thing. 

I think the difference is that she has a need to own the cooking like I mentioned, but for other things (i.e. caring for our son which I just mentioned above quoting another response) not so much. I find myself doing the rest of the cleaning. She handles the laundry (minus my own), but dishes, floors, toys, etc. are I would say 80% me. So it's selective. Maybe I should read into that and just realize I'm a bad cook and she does it out of necessity!

[BMI03]

On 8/25/2020 at 7:37 AM, amerikajin said:

I second this suggestion - I've read one of his books and he's insightful. Even if it doesn't save your relationship, it will help you understand more about how men and women (and all people) view relationships. People have "love languages." I had no clue until I read that book, but he's spot on.

On it! Thanks.

[BMI03]

On 8/25/2020 at 7:45 AM, amerikajin said:

It sounds like a power struggle, which inevitably happens in long-term relationships. Fighting over who gets to do what and how it's done, and then fighting over who's being passive and who's 'doing all the work around here.'

Ya, I think there is an added complexity here too. I think (even she would say this) that she's controlling on how things get done. She's the kind of person who will ask what you want for dinner, but then decide herself what she wants to make. My opinion is an input into her decision making...not an equal vote (in her mind).

For me, I'm typically ok with that. I have to make a lot of big decisions at work and I am more than happy to have her decide on those things around us and home... IF (big IF) that's how she wants it. I like having my opinion included, and have expressed desire to do meal prep 50/50, but in those cases she pushes to own it, and I am cool if she wants to so I passively accept. If that's where it ended, I think things would be fine. The problem is when she hits these moments of being overwhelmed with all the other things in life that all of a sudden her 'ownership' of what's for dinner feels unfair to her. Then comes the frustrations and debate. I pay the price because I don't contribute, but from my perspective I have tried to contribute but it's only so many times you can say "how about...X...for dinner...I'll cook" and be told "No, actually I was thinking ...Y." before you stop giving your two cents. Again, a submission I don't mind and am ok with so long as she is to...but problem is that she is ok with it...until she isn't one surprising day.

Anyway, I think the root cause on this is her depression. I don't know that realization makes it any easier to navigate but at least maybe more insight into the cause.

Thanks all.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

3 hours ago, BMI03 said:

I think as I write this it highlights that I think it all comes back to her depression. Some days she has a hard time getting out of bed. The smallest things can become the biggest barriers. Today she didn't get out of bed until noon time. It's not uncommon for me to go in and ask around 11am if she's getting up only to have that question highlight that she's late, and it lead to her staying in bed and calling in sick. I think sometimes she had a hard time facing the day and it's like walking through a mine field trying to navigate how to interact with her. I never know if it's a good day, or one where anything will spark her off...either in anger and a fight, or push her down into a dark hole she has trouble coming out of.

The more I type the more this all feels like a product of her depression. While frustrated and tense about it, I'm not angry at her at all...I just want to help her face the day, and find a way to navigate the mine field.

I think you are probably right about this.  I will acknowledge that when I have been depressed, I stay up super late too.  It's almost like I don't want to go to sleep because I know I'm just gonna have to "do it all over again" tomorrow.  And of course being tired only worsens depression.  

Is she open to getting help? 

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

3 hours ago, BMI03 said:

She's the kind of person who will ask what you want for dinner, but then decide herself what she wants to make. My opinion is an input into her decision making...not an equal vote (in her mind).

Omg I have a friend like this.  It's what happens every single time we have plans to go out to dinner together.  I even tell my sister, "_____ and I are doing the where-do-you-want-to-go-dinner dance again." She insists I "decide," but will veto at least 3 of my suggestions until she chooses one in the end anyway.  I play along because I couldn't care less where we eat.  She also suffers from pretty bad anxiety and depression, FYI.  And she's a control freak (which is of course from the anxiety).

[basil67]

On 7/29/2020 at 12:38 AM, BMI03 said:

Then she asked me why I seemed a bit quiet. I took the approach I thought would best bring this issue to the forefront (she knows overall it's an issue), so told her that I have that sense that she's looking for a fight, and so I'm nervous about what to say.

I think it's fair to suggest that saying "I sense you're looking for a fight" is a guaranteed way to ensure that a fight is going to happen.

Is she aware that there's a link between her stress levels and looking for a fight?  If so, what discussions have the two of you had about strategies for her to cope and for you to positively support when a situation such as this happens?

[Wiseman2]

When " what's for dinner" becomes WW3, it's time to step back and reflect on what is going on. One tip is to stop assuming everything is her fault because of her health issues 

The only thing you can do is change yourself. As long as a mindset of "I make important decisions and she's just mentally ill" persists the conflicts and turmoil will continue .

Contempt, resentment, condescension, arguing loops,etc. Are the kiss of death.

Get some therapy for yourself to unpack and sort out some of this.