Sexism agianst men. does it exist?

[Ellener]

1 minute ago, thefooloftheyear said:

I dunno....

You can't see the "Dukes of Hazzard" show anymore.....They pulled the plug on that because of the Confederate flag on the roof of the Charger....

Yep...."just TV"...not real life....🙄

TFY

Who would miss Dukes of Hazzard? It was awful.

[sothereiwas]

1 hour ago, Ellener said:

They pulled the plug on that because of the Confederate flag on the roof of the Charger....

General Lee's battle standard on the roof of a car named the "General Lee", actually. The confederate national flags (they had a few in the brief lifespan of the failed nation-state) were different flags. 

[Ellener]

2 minutes ago, sothereiwas said:

General Lee's battle standard on the roof of a car named the "General Lee", actually. The confederate national flags (they had a few in the brief lifespan of the failed nation-state) were different flags. 

Who gives a damn about banners? That's caring about symbolism not human reality.

[pepperbird]

1 hour ago, Ellener said:

Who would miss Dukes of Hazzard? It was awful.

that's not the point.

[sothereiwas]

4 minutes ago, Ellener said:

Who gives a damn about banners?

Just pointing out that it's not the confederate flag, it's a battle standard. That's why it's traditionally viewed as a symbol of heroism and defiance in the face of long odds by those who flew it in the past. People ignorant of the standard's history assumed it stood for something it didn't, got themselves all wound up, and here we are with remakes of dumb TV shows where the General Lee doesn't have the General's standard on it. C'est the life. 

You can Bingle the confederate national flags if you are curious, but they are different. 

Edited July 29, 2020 by sothereiwas

[Ellener]

Just now, sothereiwas said:

Just pointing out that it's not the confederate flag, it's a battle standard. That's why it's traditionally viewed as a symbol of heroism and defiance in the face of long odds by those who flew it in the past. People ignorant of the standard's history assumed it stood for something it didn't, got themselves all wound up, and here we are with remakes of dumb TV shows where the General Lee doesn't have the General's standard on it. C'est the life. 

It's just a piece of cloth. Let's all stop worshiping symbols and bits of fabric!

[thefooloftheyear]

1 hour ago, Ellener said:

Who would miss Dukes of Hazzard? It was awful.

What hubris....

It's not for you to decide what is  "awful"...And if it's "just TV", as you said, then it shouldn't matter. right?

TFY

 

[Ellener]

7 minutes ago, thefooloftheyear said:

What hubris....

It's not for you to decide what is  "awful"...And if it's "just TV", as you said, then it shouldn't matter. right?

TFY

 

Of course it does not matter. TV is to sell stuff,  that's what it does.

[Haydn]

I have never encountered sexism really, and i`m a `Cavalier` not a round head , most of us European chaps are in the `Cavalier` camp.

Yes we are clean. You just... (Well you can imagine)

Well okay, Sexism from weak blokes who have a front but never want to front it out so to speak. They are usually to be found in groups outside Kebab shops at 1 am. Having failed to pull they all gather in each others company for a bit of false bravado. It`s possibly homoerotic but i suspect they don`t realise...

I was a SAHD, did my ego wonders, when in the park with all the Mothers and other few Dads.... We were a kings. (In a splendid way of course)

[Atwood]

I believe that the society we live in now has an extremely unhealthy cultural attitude towards sex and gender and it's perfectly logical to me that everyone loses out because of this. Women, without a doubt, experience sexism. Other genders also experience sexism. Men absolutely experience it too. Being a feminist is absolutely about advocating for women's rights in the hopes they become equal with men, but we cannot and must not look over the importance that feminism carries for men too. We must all be liberated mainly from expectations. 

A lot of women who have been severely hurt by men and who have been through trauma from men, including myself, go down the "men are trash" twitter rabbit hole sometimes. I think it's a pendulum effect from one extreme to the other. They explain that it's because "good men will realise it's not about them" and whilst I agree, I think men's issues will never be solved whilst we're still at the peak height of that swing. I went through a phase of being extremely frightened of men, mistrusting of men and sometimes I still am, because trauma isn't magically erased after counselling and treatment. However, I recognise now all of the hurt that men experience as a result of sexism. Men experience body shaming. Men are targeted with a whole host of expectations like being a provider, being strong, being able to control emotions, not crying, not appearing in any way to deviate from masculinity. Men are good people who are also being crushed by the system. It's time we stop comparing our harms and focus on the issues as individual and valid problems. Men's Rights Activists need to stop focusing on condemning feminism, intersectional feminists are already trying dismantle white, middle-class feminism. Men's Rights Activists and Feminists need to work together on liberating men from high risk of suicide, liberating men from the stereotype of the absent, cold father, liberating men from only being able to express anger instead of sadness and vulnerability, and liberating men from dysfunctional or abusive relationships because they are not being supported in their childhood or in their adulthood from the trauma they experience and the misinformation they receive. 

 

[Libby1]

6 hours ago, thefooloftheyear said:

Maybe it's a US thing?

I don't ever remember a time, nor a TV show(or a TV commercial), where men(in a couple's perspective) are portrayed as the "know it all's" and the women blithering and fumbling dopes....And I am probably older than you are...Never...I can't think of one...

Many TV shows follow the same script as "The King of Queens"...She is so pretty, smart and well put together, , and he is the lumbering, fat dope laying on the couch that can't get out of his own way without Ms Perfect to save his ass....It's a stupid genre and just not representative....I know plenty of couples where the woman is not the one that is the smartest or most put together in the room.......

TFY

 

I've quite often seen men complain about the sitcom stereotype of the bumbling dad married to a smart woman.  I think when sitcoms are aimed at a male audience, they'll often feature incompetent men.  Classic example being the Inbetweeners, which was aimed mainly at young males.  The 4 main characters, boys in their teens (though played, I think, by men in their early twenties) were a bunch of absolute plonkers, but who wants to watch a sitcom featuring cool and well adjusted main characters?  The primary characters in sitcoms need to be a bit ridiculous, otherwise it's not going to be all that funny.

Where comedies are aimed specifically at women, the female leads will tend to be idiots/incompetent etc.  Thinking of the two imbeciles in Absolutely Fabulous...and who can forget what a chaotic mess Bridget Jones was?  I remember a lot of female journalists writing acerbic commentary about the popularity of such a foolish, incompetent "heroine" - but again, it's like "come on...who wants comedy featuring sensible, got their s**t together leads?  It would just be boring.  So if a guy is being portrayed as a bumbling fool on a sitcom, my assumption would be that he's the lead character.  The star of the show, with the wife playing straight guy.  No different from the many popular double acts out there where one has to play straight guy to their wackier (usually funnier and more popular) partner. 

[sothereiwas]

23 minutes ago, Libby1 said:

The primary characters in sitcoms need to be a bit ridiculous, otherwise it's not going to be all that funny.

The issue isn't that really. For instance the new-ish comedy Space Force has a bit of a "plonker" as the lead, but he's not routinely disrespected by those close to him. That's done by arguably more competent colleagues and so on. Training children to think of their father as a bumbling moron who has to be saved by mom and the kids ... what could possibly go wrong. 

[Timshel]

Since we are currently discussing television as a euphemism for real life sexism, here's mine.  I recently watched season one and season two of Handmaiden.  At the last episode of season two I have decided to not continue.  I don't give a hoot what happens next, the writers went off into a ditch that they couldn't possibly recover with any integrity.

 

[sothereiwas]

26 minutes ago, Timshel said:

Since we are currently discussing television as a euphemism for real life sexism, here's mine.  I recently watched season one and season two of Handmaiden.  At the last episode of season two I have decided to not continue.  I don't give a hoot what happens next, the writers went off into a ditch that they couldn't possibly recover with any integrity.

I read the book, tried to watch the show. Couldn't get into it. The book was pretty forgettable as well, but I don't remember it being actively annoying. 

[pepperbird]

2 hours ago, Atwood said:

I believe that the society we live in now has an extremely unhealthy cultural attitude towards sex and gender and it's perfectly logical to me that everyone loses out because of this. Women, without a doubt, experience sexism. Other genders also experience sexism. Men absolutely experience it too. Being a feminist is absolutely about advocating for women's rights in the hopes they become equal with men, but we cannot and must not look over the importance that feminism carries for men too. We must all be liberated mainly from expectations. 

A lot of women who have been severely hurt by men and who have been through trauma from men, including myself, go down the "men are trash" twitter rabbit hole sometimes. I think it's a pendulum effect from one extreme to the other. They explain that it's because "good men will realise it's not about them" and whilst I agree, I think men's issues will never be solved whilst we're still at the peak height of that swing. I went through a phase of being extremely frightened of men, mistrusting of men and sometimes I still am, because trauma isn't magically erased after counselling and treatment. However, I recognise now all of the hurt that men experience as a result of sexism. Men experience body shaming. Men are targeted with a whole host of expectations like being a provider, being strong, being able to control emotions, not crying, not appearing in any way to deviate from masculinity. Men are good people who are also being crushed by the system. It's time we stop comparing our harms and focus on the issues as individual and valid problems. Men's Rights Activists need to stop focusing on condemning feminism, intersectional feminists are already trying dismantle white, middle-class feminism. Men's Rights Activists and Feminists need to work together on liberating men from high risk of suicide, liberating men from the stereotype of the absent, cold father, liberating men from only being able to express anger instead of sadness and vulnerability, and liberating men from dysfunctional or abusive relationships because they are not being supported in their childhood or in their adulthood from the trauma they experience and the misinformation they receive. 

 

what do men want? That's the question.
I am not a man, so I don't know.

[Timshel]

Indeed, I was feeling uncomfortably enraged by Offred/June.  Anywho, back to sexism against men.

[Piddy]

I'm sure sexism against men exists, although I've never knowingly experienced it.  This thread reminds me of the Anti White Prejudice thread.   Sure they both exist, but for me it's all about who holds the power.

  If a woman personally has sexist views towards men, but isn't in control of any authority over the man then does it really matter?  However, women have been on the receiving end of sexism forever.  And they still face it.

In the aggregate women don't nearly hold as much power as men do.  Certainly not in the workforce.  They're not paid as much and don't hold the power that men do.  So they can't act on any sexism that they may have for the most part.

As for circumcision.  I don't remember a thing pain wise.   But I'll tell ya.  Having played sports when I was younger I've seen many an uncircumcised penis in the showers.  Ugliest damn thing you could see. 

Flaccid it looks like a baby turtle with it's head sucked in or something.  Gawd ladies how do you get by that look before it pops it's head out. lol

Many moons ago when I was 15,  I made out with my 27 year old neighbor.  We were both a little drunk.  She was an airline stewardess and gorgeous.  What I wouldn't have given to lose my virginity to her.   But it wasn't to be.  It was fun though. 

Being serious, I do realize that there are women who do take advantage of underage boys.  However, when I was 15 my little head was doing all the thinking.  My big head was doing nothing but trying to get my little head in the game for the first time. 

Unfortunately we had to wait another year for that to happen. 

Edited July 29, 2020 by Piddy

[OatsAndHall]

20 hours ago, basil67 said:

Female teacher and male student depends on the ages.  I've known men who, when younger, high-fived their 17yo mate for bagging the hot 23yo teacher.   While men do this, the issue remains one which nobody will take seriously.   Contrast that with a 14yo boy and she'll be going to jail no matter what.  I don't know anyone who would take the latter lightly.

 

As a teacher, I can say with experience that there is a different view taken when it comes to any relationships (inappropriate/illegal or otherwise) between male teachers and female students and vice-versa. For example, I rarely put myself in a situation where I am alone with a female student and I never do so in disciplinary situations (i.e. they have detention). Any allegation of wrong-doing or misconduct made by a female student against me would be taken extremely seriously. The same cannot be said if the genders were reversed; female teachers honestly have little to fear when it comes to accusations from a male student. I have worked with many, many female teachers and coaches who have never batted an eye at being alone with a male student or athlete, regardless of the circumstance. Where as I have to avoid it at all costs.

Due process would be provided to either a male or female teacher but a male teacher is essentially guilty in the eyes of the school and community once that accusation is levied. On the flip side of the coin, the female teacher would be exonerated and the male student firmly chastised. It's simply the nature of the education culture and not something that end any time soon. I have a thread floating around here about a pair of harpy classified workers at a school that started spreading some ridiculous rumor about myself and a female athlete that I had never been alone with nor had any contact with outside of school or practice. The simple fact that rumor was floating around was enough for me to threaten to involve the union as it needed to end.

[basil67]

3 hours ago, Timshel said:

Since we are currently discussing television as a euphemism for real life sexism, here's mine.  I recently watched season one and season two of Handmaiden.  At the last episode of season two I have decided to not continue.  I don't give a hoot what happens next, the writers went off into a ditch that they couldn't possibly recover with any integrity.

 

I felt the same way.  Thoroughly enjoyed the first series, was OK with the second....but the last episode jumped the shark and I gave up.

[basil67]

17 hours ago, gaius said:

Men and Women are actually two different things. Having a different set of standards for different things isn't discriminatory or sexist.

I'm circumcised and the horror stories I've heard from guys who aren't, yeast infections, etc etc, thank god I was born before showing off how evolved you are by subjecting your kid to that became the trendy thing to do. 

Given that there are a whole lot of countries where circumcision has never been a thing, this comment was unnecessarily rude.  US attitudes aren't the pinnacle to which we all aspire.

[basil67]

17 hours ago, sothereiwas said:

Men are massively more likely to die on the job, are expected to earn most of the money, are spectacularly more likely to die by suicide, and so on. It's really the worst managed patriarchy ever. 

We even get prostate cancer more. 

 

Yes, there are male jobs which are risky.   And I for one would like to see the end of coal based energy....but then I see men getting in a flap about men losing work if we move to renewable energy.   If men are complaining about the solution, aren't they part of the problem?   

When I see builders/sub-contracters/apprentices on sites who are working in unsafe conditions, I confront the builders.  I've had more than one stand up argument with the builder down the road who's subcontractor was dry cutting concrete without water or PPE...and covering the neighbours with particulates. He says didn't know what the subbie was doing.  I told him it was BS because a) he was on site at the time and b) it's his job to know what's going on on his own site.   Another time I had excavators dig a 7' trench in my backgarden without using hoardings.  His guys were jumping in and out of the trench.  When they got found out, they tried to charge me more for the hoardings they would have quoted for in the first place.   Men's trades are overseen by men.  These guys need to be part of the solution, not part of the problem.  Unfortunately, I'm seen as a 'dobber' or tattler for interfering.  

Women have been fighting for wage equality for ages.  You're no longer expected to earn most of the money.   Please men, take a day off to take your sick mother to the doctor.  Take a day off to care for your sick child.  Let the wife continue working without the expectations of caring.

Yes, the suicide rate for men is appallingly high.  But when women suggest men start talking about feelings or seeking help, we're accused of feminising men.  Far too often here, I read advice from men saying that they should be alpha, tough, strong leaders.  When a man doesn't seek help because other men say it's beta to talk about problems, doesn't this contribute to the problem?

And I see what you did with the prostate cancer thing.  Joke received.

Edited July 29, 2020 by basil67

[basil67]

12 hours ago, Prudence V said:

The overwhelming majority of male rapes are committed by other men, not by women. And yes, services for this are lacking, since in many places rape services were set up by women for other women, who are the overwhelming majority of who gets raped  - and men were seen to be triggering within these spaces. There are some mixed-sex and some men-specific services which exist now, but probably not enough. Certainly 10 years ago when a dear friend was gang raped, he found nowhere equipped to provide him with the support and counselling he needed. He still has PTSD as a result. 
 

His fiancée at the time dumped him, but the worst response he got was from other men who assumed he “must be gay” to have been raped (by men), and who subjected him to homophobic abuse as a result. (He’s not gay, but even if he was, that’s just appalling.)

OMG, this is unbelievably sad.  

[basil67]

10 hours ago, deepthinking said:

Medical breakthroughs meant us women ended up living beyond our  menopause, okay, but I want to see a breakthrough that stops men dying earlier than women. Have we all got a deal yet? 

The causes are complex, so there can be no 'breakthrough'  

"When it comes to health, males are the weaker sex throughout life. But why? It's the $64,000 question, but there is no single answer. Instead, the gap depends on a complex mix of biological, social, and behavioral factors "

https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/mars-vs-venus-the-gender-gap-in-health

[Timshel]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

I felt the same way.  Thoroughly enjoyed the first series, was OK with the second....but the last episode jumped the shark and I gave up.

The first season wanted a good deal from us...rape, theocracy, parental rights, misogyny, murder, personal liberty...etc.  So of course, this is thought provoking, the insidiousness and the complexities of intentions and inhumanity.  Then, after all that, handing over with so much melodrama, breastfeeding and so many lives at stake, just no.  Writers lost the plot.

Interestingly, the only social issue that wasn't put up was racism, everything else and sundry was.

[basil67]

11 hours ago, pepperbird said:

you;d be surprised.
 contact a domestic violence shelter in your area. ask about the programming they have for men. The only government funding we could ever get was from programs specifically for women. The entire language surrounding it was all geared towards women.
 

It sounds like you work in that sector.  How many men are running for their lives and why aren't we hearing about it?     Getting funding in any area stems from rattling a hell of a lot of cages.