How to make her reconsider us ?

[lovehiker]

Hello everyone, I (M 29) living in the south of France, her (22F) eastern european country.

Context:

I was in a distant relationship with her for almost 3 years. First meeting happened 2 months after the first conversation online, it was magical . We were meant to be together because before knowing me she had planned a 6 months internship 30min near me in Italy 3 months after our first meeting. We were deeply in love, imagined for the first time in our lives having kids in futur with this person, living together etc. We made it work, video almost every night, I'd regularly send love letters and care packages. So I'd go there, she'd come here, seeing each other on average every 3-4 months. All was going well, our families met. Although no definite plan about how to live closer / together (both our fault). There was an attempt last year; I found her first job interview in France. It went great but got denied because of work visa paperwork. So because of that she did not pursue looking or even consider other offers I had. And me moving there is harder since I don't speak russian and the median salary is 500$ : / 

We spent XMAS together here, her mom even joined us to celebrate, it was the best one I ever had.

Downfall:

So fast forward to this great "2020". Few days after new year she warned me that if I don't stop acting depressed, blaming stupidity of society and get moving in life it will get hard for her to love me (I've lost passion in my work, not good money anymore, and closed my company). Besides that all was going well, even agreed by text end of march that we were at the beginning of a long lasting love . Then the real s*** storm happened: virus started, I got a bit too enthusiastic about all the bad news which annoyed her. She started a new job (bad time management, often work 10-21h) + her side projects. France got lockdowned and closed borders, a week later her grandma died, the week after her other grandma died (both strokes not virus). She blamed me for not being there, pointed out the weaknesses of such a relationship, refused my online support (which I can understand and gave her grieving space). I truly wanted to be there, even made plans before lockdown to travel there april / may. But eh what was supposed to do, couldn't even go to the airport. Since that, she became withdrawn, emotionally unavailable, delayed responses, told me she started to have mix feelings towards me, that I'm not adventurous enough, too negative. When I heard that I was devastated, that's it I lost her mentally, I got suspicious and anxious. Then hugs and smileys slowly disappeared from chat. Less and less time for me, less video call. Seeing all this made me panic, insisting / chasing her to have proper conversations. So I went full conspiracy mode, mid of may, connecting the dots.....she was emotionally cheating on me. She was surprised I discovered it, told me she was trying to battle those feelings and find energy to keep loving me. Reminding me that she wants to see me in real. How could I trust her now ? Why would I go there to be dumped ? I hesitated ( already was end of april because lockdown was finishing mid-may), until I decided to go there for the month of june (yep should have gone earlier, those 2 last weeks of may were fatal). When I told her I was coming there was no joy from, no enthusiasm, just neutral surprise. Almost wanted to cancel because of that.

The person I met wasn't her, she seemed empty, eaten up by work, lost weight. Wasn't holding my hand in public, when I took hers it felt like a dead fish. She thought seeing me irl would spark something back. The most disturbing thing of all was that she was uncomfortable to look me in the eyes. She felt lost herself and booked online therapist session, because her heart was empty and only her reason, logical part was keeping her with me. Therapist said love is not rational -_-.  She lost all interest and broke up with me 2 weeks in. I got sick due to emotions. Spent the 2 last weeks alone in the airbnb coping with relationship coaching videos, felt better, listed projects to do, all my interests. Her mom came to tell me goodbye, cried. 

She wanted to stay friends, and was sad to lose me and my parents (something she has to accept before making such decision lol ). I called on that bulls*** and said I'm your lover, can't be friends (plus the way she is friends with people is always on a superficial level), but my door is open if you change your mind. We'd only contact if hospital etc, accomplishments and if she changes her mind. 

When I was there on the first night I made her swear if there was nothing else with the guy besides talking, the answer was no. But after she announced breakup, whenever I brought up that guy in questions, answers were none of my business or avoided question. 

Aftermath:

Since I'm back, no contact except to answer her I got home ok and later when virus tests came negative from the plane.

I come to you because despite it all I think of her everyday and of course want her back, I love her so much. I know what we had is dead but creating a new one is possible. One where we're more mature and mutually decide of a plan to live together. Plus given the circumstances of all the downfall it doesn't feel fair. We've never argued before this period, it's a shame to have given up at the first challenge we faced. I've been working on myself and my flaws to become a better man. I'm looking for a new job now. I don't know how to reignite that spark in her through communication. Or even to establish communication. I've been tempted to send an email to her mom to share my concerns about her daughter and my point of view, because since tragedy she's been talking less to her mom as well. She keeps blaming herself about being self destructive towards others (like me when still together) without changing anything. I worry about her well being, and my anxious side suspects she might be with this guy now. I can fully visualize the man i want to be and I I know deep down she would like this new me.

It's been 6 weeks since breakup, 25 days since last goodbye.

I have been working hard on myself to improve and sent her monday a voice message monday to share about my achievments as we agreed. She wrote sincerely happy you're doing well.

[Wiseman2]

Sorry to hear that. Did you meet on a Russian bride site? It seems like she was mainly interested in a visa and your income.

[BaileyB]

I don’t know that you can change her mind, it sounds like she has moved on from your relationship. It would seem that the stress she was experiencing and the distance was too much. It sounds like the problem is with her to solve, I wonder if she is struggling with depression. Regardless, there is not much you can do. You can’t force someone to be in relationship with you...

[lovehiker]

4 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Sorry to hear that. Did you meet on a Russian bride site? It seems like she was mainly interested in a visa and your income.

No not at all, it was through a normal app. And one of the reasons I love her is because she is not impressed by any wealth or money chasing. As for visa well instead of persuing coming to france she found job there instead.

[lovehiker]

4 minutes ago, BaileyB said:

I don’t know that you can change her mind, it sounds like she has moved on from your relationship. It would seem that the stress she was experiencing and the distance was too much. It sounds like the problem is with her to solve, I wonder if she is struggling with depression. Regardless, there is not much you can do. You can’t force someone to be in relationship with you...

No I'd be the one depressed int his story (she told me a few times), I'd say she's anxious from all the work she brought to herself maybe to try to prove herself she can do alot alone but has overestimated. 

Yes I don't what to do to make her reconsider us. I still can't believe she sacrifices all we had over an exceptional rough patch.

[ExpatInItaly]

3 hours ago, lovehiker said:

 I've been tempted to send an email to her mom to share my concerns about her daughter and my point of view, because since tragedy she's been talking less to her mom as well.

Do not do this. It's not appropriate and frankly will make you look incredibly desperate and disrespectful of her boundaries. 

I know you are hurting. But it sounds like she checked out of your relationship even before the pandemic began and this relationship was already on its last legs. Being apart for the duration of lockdown was tough but it's not what ultimately caused this. You two are in different countries with no realistic long-term solution. She's got a job where she is now, and you don't speak the local language and thus can't get work there. The chances of this actually working out started disappearing a while ago and that's likely when her new guy started grabbing her interest. 

I'm sorry, OP. This is rough, I realize, but you can't make someone want to be with you when they just don't feel the same way anymore. It is best to let go so you can work on healing and meet someone with whom a future is a real, tangible possibility. 

[lovehiker]

19 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

Do not do this. It's not appropriate and frankly will make you look incredibly desperate and disrespectful of her boundaries. 

I know you are hurting. But it sounds like she checked out of your relationship even before the pandemic began and this relationship was already on its last legs. Being apart for the duration of lockdown was tough but it's not what ultimately caused this. You two are in different countries with no realistic long-term solution. She's got a job where she is now, and you don't speak the local language and thus can't get work there. The chances of this actually working out started disappearing a while ago and that's likely when her new guy started grabbing her interest. 

I'm sorry, OP. This is rough, I realize, but you can't make someone want to be with you when they just don't feel the same way anymore. It is best to let go so you can work on healing and meet someone with whom a future is a real, tangible possibility. 

Ok, I won't send anything to her mom. But I'm not defeatist, nor fatalistic. Yes we're in different countries, but anything is possible after a mutual agreement of a plan. She speaks russian, english, italian and learned french for a bit when with me, perfect to find any job around here. The thing is we never really had that long serious talk. And I've been learning russian with duolingo. What I'm saying is all the solutions exist to make things happen. I hurt because we were hit by an unfair situation, external circumstances. As I said, before april we were all good (in my opinion, impossible to know her true thoughts). 

Thanks to have read the long post. Talking about it with other people helps me.

[ExpatInItaly]

2 minutes ago, lovehiker said:

Yes we're in different countries, but anything is possible after a mutual agreement of a plan. She speaks russian, english, italian and learned french for a bit when with me, perfect to find any job around here. The thing is we never really had that long serious talk. And I've been learning russian with duolingo. What I'm saying is all the solutions exist to make things happen.

I agree that people can make things happen. I’m Canadian, and I picked up and moved to Italy by myself 8 years ago. I didn’t know the language at the time either,  but I had a strong desire to learn and make a home for myself here (I still live in Italy today) The problem in your case is that she doesn’t seem to want to live outside her country anymore if she’s found a job there, and doesn’t seem keen on you moving to her either. You yourself cited the language barrier and low salaries as reasons for not relocating to her country anyway, so I sense that you aren’t actually that enthused by the idea deep-down. 

The thing that jumps out at me too is that even after 3 years, you two had never had a serious talk about your future. Why was that? 3 years is a long time to have not really spoken about it on any real level. 

 

[JRabbit]

So she wanted to go to France to be with you, but she got a job there, so no longer needs to marry to get a visa? Is that correct? Might be the answer.

[gamon]

Depression destroys relationships. Especially newer ones where comittment is limited. Most people just don't want to be dragged down along with their partner.

If you're in a long term relationship and start to get depressed that's another matter entirely. But for her, it was too much too soon.

As per your thread title, you can't "make" her do anything. She's not a dog, and clearly she has made her decision. The sooner you accept it, the better off you will be.

 

 

[lovehiker]

13 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

I agree that people can make things happen. I’m Canadian, and I picked up and moved to Italy by myself 8 years ago. I didn’t know the language at the time either,  but I had a strong desire to learn and make a home for myself here (I still live in Italy today) The problem in your case is that she doesn’t seem to want to live outside her country anymore if she’s found a job there, and doesn’t seem keen on you moving to her either. You yourself cited the language barrier and low salaries as reasons for not relocating to her country anyway, so I sense that you aren’t actually that enthused by the idea deep-down. 

The thing that jumps out at me too is that even after 3 years, you two had never had a serious talk about your future. Why was that? 3 years is a long time to have not really spoken about it on any real level. 

 

Yes people usually move to another country to seek a better life, or similar level but with different benefits to compensate. Here we're talking about going from french riviera to Belarus. I don't know if you've been there, all I can say is that it's a soviet time capsule. And bureaucracy makes it easier for her to move out than me there. I don't know, she became kind of patriotic and with elections coming up she thinks country will change. 

As for the talk, we had few times especially last year when she had job interview here and thought about maybe enrolling in a university here. But I don't know, it always felt like the kind of late night talk you have with buddies that dream to open a bar on a beach in vietnam and never do it. We're both to blame for that (i think me more to not have taken in charge things). We only really talked and agreed about the end goal: house with nice garden with farm animals and veggies. 

The truth is we were noobs. It was our longest relationship for both of us. It feels like it ended before any of us really tried. Really thank you, because you made me think about this aspect and now that i think about it, ya that seems to be the root cause. And ya i think she started to feel insecure and went for this s***ty job. Because she expressed many times her desire to travel, move away to see other parts of world.

[lovehiker]

22 minutes ago, JRabbit said:

So she wanted to go to France to be with you, but she got a job there, so no longer needs to marry to get a visa? Is that correct? Might be the answer.

No she's not a goldigger. But I understand your thought. I looked into it as it would help her find a job here, the process takes about 6 months. And before even considering marriage I wanted to at least live with her in same place to see if we get along.

[lovehiker]

20 minutes ago, gamon said:

Depression destroys relationships. Especially newer ones where comittment is limited. Most people just don't want to be dragged down along with their partner.

If you're in a long term relationship and start to get depressed that's another matter entirely. But for her, it was too much too soon.

As per your thread title, you can't "make" her do anything. She's not a dog, and clearly she has made her decision. The sooner you accept it, the better off you will be.

 

 

Yes, her support was to tell to go see a specialist doctor. I was reluctant to go because of the stigma, and of course the famous "i don't need to, i don't want to be put on meds". But this huge shock and loss made me reconsider so many things and to shout f*** you at my ego. So i'm now waiting for an appointment with therapist. 

[JRabbit]

8 minutes ago, lovehiker said:

No she's not a goldigger. But I understand your thought. I looked into it as it would help her find a job here, the process takes about 6 months. And before even considering marriage I wanted to at least live with her in same place to see if we get along.

Not a gold digger but searching for citizenship perhaps?  Is the rule in Italy like elsewhere in Europe, where she wouldn't be able to work for 6 months once moving over?

Just to clarify I am just asking because it was not clear in your post regarding your long distance situation.

[lovehiker]

Just now, JRabbit said:

Not a gold digger but searching for citizenship perhaps?  Is the rule in Italy like elsewhere in Europe, where she wouldn't be able to work for 6 months once moving over?

Just to clarify I am just asking because it was not clear in your post regarding your long distance situation.

You can apply for french citizenship after living here for 10years minimum. Until that you have a card which allows you to be here. To get that you either need family in france with whom you want to be with, or marry. The marriage process take about 6 months (thanks admin paperwork), and learn a minimum of french language, its history and culture (not a problem for her). 

But she could be here and work without marriage, just need to find a job where the company is ready to do all the paperwork and justify the choice of hiring a foreigner. Because when hiring you should first consider french, then europeans and only after that international.

[mark clemson]

Wondering about her, thinking "what if,"  trying to figure out ways to make her reconsider - all these things are pointless.

There are two simple things to do here, although they are easier said than done.  1) Let her go.  2) Move on.

There are 3.5+ billion women in the world. Go find another one, who wants and appreciates you.

Edited July 29, 2020 by mark clemson

[chillii]

 

l think it's a combination of things but although losing gp is hard l think that probably made her reconsider leaving family for another country too. 3yrs though is a long time to keep a LD going too though and she was so young and still developing ideals when you met and will be for a long time yet. So all that's shifted along the way too and she,'s not only lost the mojo but also the interest too as you've gotten to know each other better. And someone else on the line sweettalkin , a different personality , would just be the icing on the cake even if it doesn't go anywhere.

TBH  , it sounds lost sorry because even if you did change her mind her heart just isn't in it anymore.

[Wiseman2]

She'll be happier in her country with her family friends job culture etc. Consider the months she visited you as a fun adventure. She's done. You need to look back fondly at your time together and turn to a new chapter.

[lovehiker]

21 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

She'll be happier in her country with her family friends job culture etc. Consider the months she visited you as a fun adventure. She's done. You need to look back fondly at your time together and turn to a new chapter.

I don't know, protests are starting, russia is trying to destabilize the country now and their dictator president they have will do anything to stay in power. Elections are next week.

[lovehiker]

30 minutes ago, chillii said:

 

l think it's a combination of things but although losing gp is hard l think that probably made her reconsider leaving family for another country too. 3yrs though is a long time to keep a LD going too though and she was so young and still developing ideals when you met and will be for a long time yet. So all that's shifted along the way too and she,'s not only lost the mojo but also the interest too as you've gotten to know each other better. And someone else on the line sweettalkin , a different personality , would just be the icing on the cake even if it doesn't go anywhere.

TBH  , it sounds lost sorry because even if you did change her mind her heart just isn't in it anymore.

Thanks, yes it's very accept due the fact that we barely scratched the surface of what could have been. Yes she's at that age where you have ideals before facing reality. 

[Wiseman2]

8 minutes ago, lovehiker said:

I don't know, protests are starting, russia is trying to destabilize the country now and their dictator president they have will do anything to stay in power. Elections are next week.

Not your problem. 

[chillii]

2 hours ago, lovehiker said:

Thanks, yes it's very accept due the fact that we barely scratched the surface of what could have been. Yes she's at that age where you have ideals before facing reality. 

 

Nah , but unfortunately 3yrs of LD and obstacles can really wear on interest and mojo before, a very similar thing happened with us.  lronically , my gf now is Russian Portuguese too but she was already living in my country 8yrs before we met thankfully.

Edited July 30, 2020 by chillii

[ExpatInItaly]

22 hours ago, lovehiker said:

I don't know, protests are starting, russia is trying to destabilize the country now and their dictator president they have will do anything to stay in power. Elections are next week.

This isn't really relevant, OP. 

The bigger problem is she lost interest and is seeing someone else. 

[BaileyB]

22 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

The bigger problem is she lost interest and is seeing someone else. 

And, there is nothing you can do about that... you can’t force someone to be in a relationship. All you can do is accept it and move on...

[smackie9]

A little too late. You had plenty of opportunity to get your act together, but you kept going in a complete decline for sometime. I'm surprised she hung on as long as she did. You didn't make any real effort to actually do something about the issues she brought to you. That will wear anyone down. She was all loved out, you are not the man she fell in love with, she has moved on. This relationship has ran it's course....it didn't stand the test of time. Not only that, you didn't step up to the plate to come up with a better plan to live together. All you did was make excuses how you couldn't do this or that, the wadges are too low, blah blah blah. When you date someone from a completely different country, different culture, etc, you have to make sacrifices. You didn't love her enough to sacrifice your comfortable home, job, etc. So of course it wasn't going to work.

It hurts, but it's done. Take with you what you have learned, go forward improving your life and start fresh with someone new.