curlygirl40 Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 From what I'm reading, it's droplets and aerosols and the time you spend breathing it in. If someone is shouting, or singing, or coughing, sneezing, etc. there will be more droplets exhaled so greater risk to those around them. I read somewhere that you have to inhale a certain number of them for it to catch hold and infect you. So you're in a grocery store for a small amount of time, most people are wearing masks, not as risky. You could pass someone quickly who has it and isn't wearing a mask, but you didn't spend enough time breathing in their droplets to get it. (From what I'm understanding, I could be very wrong, but that's what I've read). You're in a bar, people aren't wearing masks, ventilation is bad, people are shouting, huge risk. You're in church with bad ventilation, people are singing, you're there for over an hour, more of a risk. It doesn't matter if you're always 6 feet apart from everyone, the virus can still get in the air and cycled all around the building via bad ventilation. Risk. You're outside, keeping distance, the virus blows away more easily, less risk. There have been many articles which show how it's spreading in groups. In Springfield MA, a nurse (I think....a nurse) went on vacation in a hot spot, came back to work without quarantining (which is required by MA when you travel to a hot spot state, quarantining for 14 days but she didn't) and spread it to 38 people. Some employees, some patients. They guess that it was spread in the break room where people weren't wearing masks. And how many other people did those 38 spread it to outside of the hospital setting? Who knows. Even people who are symptomatic are contagious before they get the symptoms. That's where a lot of damage is done. It's easy to say 'Stay home if you feel sick or have a fever' but for approx 6 days before you show symptoms, you can still spread it to others. There's a great article that shows some of the early spread. I tried to find it but couldn't. I shouldn't try to quote it but I will anyway. They were able to map people in a restaurant. So the person who had it was sitting at table A with 9 people. They were able to track who in that restaurant got it from patient X. So there were people more than 6 feet away from patient X who contracted it, due to the length of time they were in the restaurant (I think 2 hours) and poor ventilation. Or maybe just average every day ventilation, I don't know how ventilation works. But it's recycled through the building, at least some of it. This same article talked about being able to track people in a call center in the early days. They showed patient X, where everyone else was sitting and who got it based on the ventilation pattern or something like that. So some of the people who contracted it were nowhere near the source, but they spent 8 hours breathing the same air. Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 (edited) All this wondering and hand wringing for an invisible bug,... How it's transmitted is pretty much common sense and the same as most other maladies that we have been dealing with for decades...Droplets, aerosol, etc.. pfft...who cares...Its a flu bug...is it really that much different from how they all spread.?? I am kinda unique in the sense that I really don't do what a lot of people do to increase their risks, but even so , I am almost 100% sure I contracted the virus back in late Jan/early Feb... It was a tough bug, but I got through it...I've dealt with much worse shyt than that...its behind me now...Point is if someone like me can get it, with little interaction with others, then anyone can, and to think you can shield yourself completely is irrational... I dunno....Rather than spend my life worrying about this I do what I have control over....The stuff I can't control,. I cant spend the emotional energy worrying about it....Like who is or isn't wearing a mask, or who went to a party, etc...I wont submit to fear, because that's not the life I want to live....I'd rather die standing upright, than live my life on my knees like a lot of other people have chosen to do... The thing that gets me is that the people I know worrying the most are doing literally nothing that is within their control to deal with this....Change your lifestyle...Eat better. exercise more, lose weight, increase your lung capacity...They are doing none of these things, yet are paralyzed with fear, and so militant about what people should or shouldn't be doing, or how do they contract it, etc....They have so little control over those things , so I don't really understand the logic....To me it makes no sense... TFY Edited August 1, 2020 by thefooloftheyear 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 The problem I see is that some take an event and if no-one gets ill, they take that as proof that the event is in itself safe, when that is not true. I can visit a bar twenty times and never get ill but the 21st time there is a guy in the bar with the virus and 10 of us get ill... the bar is only as safe as the people who frequent it... As we are not psychic enough to know who is or is not a risk to us, or our loved ones, then we all need to take adequate precautions. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 6 minutes ago, thefooloftheyear said: I cant spend the emotional energy worrying about it....Like who is or isn't wearing a mask, or who went to a party, etc... That frustration is partly due to personal risk, yes, but also because of the thought that if people are not going to "behave" and take things seriously then we are all going to have to live with this for potentially years and years... Link to post Share on other sites
QuietRiot Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, elaine567 said: Whether one takes it seriously or not, a person can still get the virus. There are just too many variables to be able to cover all bases. Areas that are free from virus can go from zero to a disaster in a short space of time. That is the problem when you are dealing with a highly transmissible virus, a virus that exhibits asymptomatic spread, a virus that can transmit before disease is even evident. In order for anyone to get the virus someone a the party would have had to have the virus, if no-one had active viral infection then no-one gets ill... Of course some may have had mild or asymptomatic infection and some may have not admitted to being ill, for all sorts of reasons... Recently...I saw a friend tagged on FB of them celebrating one of their friends' birthday at a certain restaurant that apparently practiced Covid 19 safe practices...however, this was a well grouped together gaggle of friends....maskless...all grouped together around the table. Granted you could all it 'outdoors" as it was a "covered" area with ceiling fans running. However, you could see behind them that other patrons were spaced apart. They are Trump worshippers pretty much, as I"ve seen their photos taken at a Trump boat rally a month prior. And...the photo was set to public (the Globe icon) so I shared it with other friends that know them. One was a nurse and recognized some of them. Some pointed out that some of the individuals they didn' t mention by name had made bigotted comments in mixed company. I wonder if the named restaurant got wind of this or the public, this would look bad for the restaurant, yes? Edited August 1, 2020 by QuietRiot Link to post Share on other sites
Weezy1973 Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 42 minutes ago, thefooloftheyear said: The thing that gets me is that the people I know worrying the most are doing literally nothing that is within their control to deal with this....Change your lifestyle...Eat better. exercise more, lose weight, increase your lung capacity... Yup, improving your immune system with better lifestyle choices should be the first thing people do. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
QuietRiot Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 35 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said: Yup, improving your immune system with better lifestyle choices should be the first thing people do. Yes, also there' s "pandemic" of Vitamin D deficiency going on. Apparently. 42% of the US population is Vit D deficient. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Redhead14 Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 43 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said: Yup, improving your immune system with better lifestyle choices should be the first thing people do. Unfortunately, there are millions of people who can barely afford to eat, let alone be health conscious . . . Link to post Share on other sites
Redhead14 Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 25 minutes ago, Redhead14 said: Unfortunately, there are millions of people who can barely afford to eat, let alone be health conscious . . . But I guess they are just collateral damage like the elderly and people who have underlying conditions through no fault of their own and so the rest can just blow everything off. Link to post Share on other sites
Weezy1973 Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Redhead14 said: Unfortunately, there are millions of people who can barely afford to eat, let alone be health conscious . . . Sure, but that doesn’t even compare to the 200 million plus that are overweight of which around 100 million are considered obese. Poverty is an issue; poor lifestyle choices are a bigger issue. Edited August 1, 2020 by Weezy1973 2 Link to post Share on other sites
QuietRiot Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 36 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said: Sure, but that doesn’t even compare to the 200 million plus that are overweight of which around 100 million are considered obese. Poverty is an issue; poor lifestyle choices are a bigger issue. I was listening to this southern gal on the radio...when this all started, someone asked about how her family felt about Corona virus and she said, "They don't believe in cholesterol, much less the Corona virus". There are people that want to now, since it's a 2000's thing to embrace obesity or the "body positivity "movement where fat people post themselves in the nude on social media. Fluffy the comedian on Netflix went on a rant about though he's in his mid-30s, how he loves to eat, regardless of the health consequences..and that with and that said, he thinks it's worth enjoying food and the trade-off for a shortened lifespan, would be okay with that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Angelle Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 Supplements can be expensive, so can healthy food. I need to be eating a certain way (when my stomach will allow it - smoothies and soup should be the base of my diet), but regular juicing is expensive. I'm also not as organized as I should be. Link to post Share on other sites
Weezy1973 Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 @QuietRiot yes there seems to be a whole movement in the US where they’re doubling down on freedom to mean the freedom to make bad choices. Freedom to eat in an unhealthy manner, freedom to not vaccinate their kids, freedom to ignore science, freedom to not where masks. And the freedom is worth more to them than the bad health consequences. They don’t understand that being healthy gives you way more freedoms... Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 23 minutes ago, QuietRiot said: Fluffy the comedian on Netflix went on a rant about though he's in his mid-30s, how he loves to eat, regardless of the health consequences..and that with and that said, he thinks it's worth enjoying food and the trade-off for a shortened lifespan, would be okay with that. "Life is too short to diet.." Link to post Share on other sites
QuietRiot Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 8 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said: @QuietRiot yes there seems to be a whole movement in the US where they’re doubling down on freedom to mean the freedom to make bad choices. Freedom to eat in an unhealthy manner, freedom to not vaccinate their kids, freedom to ignore science, freedom to not where masks. And the freedom is worth more to them than the bad health consequences. They don’t understand that being healthy gives you way more freedoms... Well you see, people do not like their personal health being policed. But you see, if it is impacting others (which it is) that's a different story. I remember when smoking was banned in restaurants...yep...no more hostess asking, "Smoking or Non?" The smokers were livid...at the time. Now its been widely accepted. In fact, I think there are a higher percentage of non-smokers than there are smokers in the U.S. Those that do still smoke, kind of fall in the back water variety/ or people of late night Wal-Mart variety. Link to post Share on other sites
QuietRiot Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Angelle said: Supplements can be expensive, so can healthy food. I need to be eating a certain way (when my stomach will allow it - smoothies and soup should be the base of my diet), but regular juicing is expensive. I'm also not as organized as I should be. To counter that, the cost of not eating healthy will be a problem later on. IE - Statin drugs for the purpose of heart diseased...caused by poor diet. Insulin costs incurred because someone keeps drinking sodas on a daily basis. Or having whipped cream and sugar/chocolate with their coffee in a large, gargantuan cups. Edited August 1, 2020 by QuietRiot 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Inflikted Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 Well, keep in mind that even though places may "mandate" masks, and other safety precautions, there's a lot of people that will purposely ignore those things for one reason or another (be it political, or whatever). And honestly, a lot of places probably don't have the time or manpower to strictly enforce these things. On top of that, plenty of people who DO wear masks, for instance, don't necessarily use them properly; aside from the many ways in which people incorrectly wear them, there's also the people that frequently pull them down, or touch and fidget with them a bit (and possibly touch their face without thinking about it after the fact). And other than the N95/N99 masks, most other masks aren't as "bulletproof" for preventing the virus, especially the cloth ones some people make and wear. In a perfect world, if everyone was on board with masks and safety protocols, and everybody used masks 100% correctly, and if everyone limited unnecessary ventures out into the public for a few weeks, it would probably help lower numbers. But in practice, nearly half of the country thinks coronavirus is just "the liberal media overblowing the sniffles to try to control us!", and among the people who do follow guidelines, many are probably not doing so 100% effectively in one way or another. It is scary that it's so hard to discern how it spreads so much, particularly when people are generally following precautions to a decent degree. I talk about my three "COVID is BS, I'm not wearing a mask or changing my life whatsoever!" coworkers all the time, and it's frustrating to me how they don't take it seriously. I wear a mask at work and do my best to keep my distance, but we still have to share certain equipment, and often times, they have little to no regard for my personal space. There's only so much I can do. Worse yet, all three of them know someone that had (or has) coronavirus, now, and all three of them say "The person I know is totally fine, so that proves it's all an overblown hoax", so they justify their ignorance just because the people they know are "fine". Over a week ago, when one of them first found out that their contact was potentially exposed (who then did become ill in the days that followed), they were giggling and teasing me about it, because it's all a joke to them. Meanwhile, I have family that I don't want to pass it on to, I have friends that I don't want to pass it on to. But it's all just a joke, to some people. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 Quote Patients hospitalised with COVID-19 who take statins are less likely to die than those who do not, a retrospective study published in Cell Metabolism (24 June 2020) suggests. Researchers looked at data from 13,981 patients with COVID-19 — 1,219 of whom received statins while they were in hospital. Some 319 patients taking statins were also treated with angiotensin-converting enzyme inhibitors (ACEi) or angiotensin II receptor blockers (ARBs) for hypertension management. They found that the 28-day all-cause mortality rate was 5.2% for those receiving statins, compared with 9.4% for matched patients who were not receiving statins. This equated to a 42% reduction in the risk of death. No significant association was found between ACEi/ARB therapy and 28-day mortality in individuals with hypertension and statin treatment. https://www.pharmaceutical-journal.com/news-and-analysis/research-briefing/statins-linked-to-lower-risk-of-death-from-covid-19-study-suggests/20208138.article?firstPass=false#fn_1 Link to post Share on other sites
Angelle Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 17 minutes ago, QuietRiot said: To counter that, the cost of not eating healthy will be a problem later on. IE - Statin drugs for the purpose of heart diseased...caused by poor diet. Insulin costs incurred because someone keeps drinking sodas on a daily basis. Or having whipped cream and sugar/chocolate with their coffee in a large, gargantuan cups. I get it, but as I mentioned once in another thread: when certain people tried to get rid of sugary drinks, and things like that, they were considered to be overstepping. I have a stomach problem, that makes me sick (literally), most of the time, when I eat - sometimes water can make me sick, too. It depends on the day. Fibre can make it worse. Chicken nuggets can be easier on the stomach, at times. People in a group I'm a part of, talk about certain fast foods that are easier for them to digest, than salads. Link to post Share on other sites
Angelle Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 I've used public bathrooms, a few times, when I've been out, only to hear that bathrooms might be one of the ways in which it's spreading faster. A few months ago, a woman's friend who works in a hospital, said that they'd found it was spreading through gas stations, too - through the pumps. I mentioned that to my dad, and he was already using a napkin to pick it up. Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 One of the ways they gauge how much virus is circulating in the population is to sample untreated sewage. Link to post Share on other sites
QuietRiot Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Angelle said: I get it, but as I mentioned once in another thread: when certain people tried to get rid of sugary drinks, and things like that, they were considered to be overstepping. I have a stomach problem, that makes me sick (literally), most of the time, when I eat - sometimes water can make me sick, too. It depends on the day. Fibre can make it worse. Chicken nuggets can be easier on the stomach, at times. People in a group I'm a part of, talk about certain fast foods that are easier for them to digest, than salads. What is your stomach problem? Have you seen a doctor about it? Did he suggest you continue to drink sugary drinks and eat fast food to take care of that issue? I dunno, I'm really finding it hard to buy that plain water gives you stomach problems...granted it's not overly acidic or alkaline. Try filtered water perhaps (get your water tested)? If there is no real problem, then chances are you've succumbed to sugar addiction and it takes about 3 weeks to a month to get over it. Basically, your body needs to get used to the healthier foods is what I"m saying. That is if you genuinely don't have a diagnosed stomach problem. Will you wind up in the hospital or emergency room if you discontinue eating fast food? Edited August 1, 2020 by QuietRiot Link to post Share on other sites
amerikajin Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 On 7/31/2020 at 10:26 AM, clia said: The numbers likely aren't higher than they were back in March/April -- it's just that we had nowhere near the testing capacity back then that we do now so we just didn't know how bad it really was. As an example, in March/April, New York was testing less than 15,000 people per day (and only hit that number at the end of April; it was much less prior to that). Currently, New York is testing about 35,000 people per day. By contrast, since early June (when things started ramping up), Florida has been testing 25,000-60,000 people per day. So, Florida is testing at least double or triple the people that New York was testing back when New York was at its worst, if not more. I'm in Michigan, another state that was badly hit back in March/April and here you couldn't even get a test back in March/April unless you were practically ready to be admitted to the hospital. Now they are testing anyone who wants a test. So, my point is that things aren't necessarily worse now, it's just that we have more data. In my opinion, the virus was likely running rampant through at least parts of the US back in February/March/April, but we just didn't know what it was and weren't testing for it. I think the number of cases in areas of the northwest are for sure much higher than actually counted. There is more testing, but there has also been a greater percentage of positive tests to go along with more testing, which indicates that the disease has spread. The likely reason for the increase in case numbers is that the epidemic has now spread throughout the entire country; in spring, it was confined to a few areas such as Greater New York, Boston, Washington State, New Orleans, and a few other places. Now it is literally everywhere - epidemics are like that. We're much worse off now because people outside of the first wave areas didn't take precautions, and it spiraled out of control quickly. Now states like Florida, Texas, and Southern California are trying to get a handle on the situation, but the number of infections has exceeded the capacity of their healthcare system. Whether it gets even worse will depend on whether states and municipalities reopen gradually or quickly. I don't think there's going to be a vaccine before the end of the year, and there may not be a good one for another year from now. However, we may be able to develop treatments that get the worst of the disease to a point where its worst effects can be dealt with quickly and effectively. Link to post Share on other sites
Angelle Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 41 minutes ago, QuietRiot said: What is your stomach problem? Have you seen a doctor about it? Did he suggest you continue to drink sugary drinks and eat fast food to take care of that issue? I dunno, I'm really finding it hard to buy that plain water gives you stomach problems...granted it's not overly acidic or alkaline. Try filtered water perhaps (get your water tested)? If there is no real problem, then chances are you've succumbed to sugar addiction and it takes about 3 weeks to a month to get over it. Basically, your body needs to get used to the healthier foods is what I"m saying. That is if you genuinely don't have a diagnosed stomach problem. Will you wind up in the hospital or emergency room if you discontinue eating fast food? I've been sick for a decade. I haven't been diagnosed, because I don't have insurance, and some people who end up in the ER, end up being accused of drug-seeking, or some other thing. I found out about gastroparesis, and cyclic vomiting, six years ago. Plain water can be a problem at times, not every time. Safe foods, aren't always safe - they can still bloat. I don't have sugar addiction. I don't drink big gulps, but coke can sometimes help food to digest. I don't live on fast food. It depends on the person, as to what they can get away with. Some people can't manage anything, and end up underweight, with feeding tubes, etc. Some gain weight, due to malnutrition (not just food). It's a lot to get into, and I'm really off-topic. I got away with eating salad yesterday. Small amounts. Link to post Share on other sites
amaysngrace Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 7 hours ago, serial muse said: Links please. sure no problemo https://www.google.com/amp/s/cbs12.com/amp/news/local/man-who-died-in-motorcycle-crash-counted-as-covid-19-death-in-florida-report oh my bad, it wasn’t a peach, it was a papaya https://www.google.com/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/6910821/coronavirus-papaya-goat-tanzania/amp/ Link to post Share on other sites
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