Meeting more crystal crunchers these days

[Trail Blazer]

1 hour ago, central said:

I met a bunch of them.  Most are very nice, if a little odd, and can be good friends.  Of course, I find anyone who believes in nonsense (God(s), political systems, astrology, etc.) a bit off mentally.  Of course if you're part of the mainstream of such nonsense, it's considered "normal."  None is any more rational or real than any other.

The only excuse I can offer for mainstream believers in God is that, in general, they've usually been somewhat indoctrinated.  Family and/or societal/cultural influences dictate what many people believe.

 

[QuietRiot]

7 minutes ago, Trail Blazer said:

The only excuse I can offer for mainstream believers in God is that, in general, they've usually been somewhat indoctrinated.  Family and/or societal/cultural influences dictate what many people believe.

 

Some are newer than others. I thought the crystal thing was more of a fad, but they just enhanced upon it. I heard something about crystal bowls and their chimes or something.

[sothereiwas]

11 minutes ago, QuietRiot said:

I heard something about crystal bowls and their chimes or something.

Well, it's great for drinking whiskey from. 

[QuietRiot]

10 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

They weren’t woo woo. They had falsifiable hypotheses that they tested and others tested and have held up over time. Astrology has been tested and was shown to be false. As have many pseudoscientific beliefs. Also, Tesla and Einstein are using the scientific definition of energy:

“In physics, energy is the quantitative property that must be transferred to an object in order to perform work on, or to heat, the object.“

People use the word energy in pseudoscience to mean something mysterious and mystical or magical when it actually has a precise definition. 

I don’t really know what this means, but nobody in this thread are testing hypotheses using the scientific method. They just believe in these things regardless of there being no evidence to support them. And to tie it back to the OP, that sometimes isn’t the best characteristic if you’re looking for a life partner. 

I have a female friend that is an "Energy Worker" as a side gig, claims to even had treated her OBGYN (she has clients apparently). She claims her method is to tap into peoples' emotional history, before she became an energy worker, she said a previous such energy worker was able to "tap in" to a traumatic year of her life and say, "Hey, this is the cause of your so-and-so physical ailment!" and treated her for it.

I had many negative experiences in my life and as the practitioner worked on me, she would find the exact emotion and year the emotion occurred and the event would actually pop into my head.  I started learning emotion code for myself, so I could clear as much as possible between appointments, and the rest is history.

"Emotion Code"? I am noticing these strange buzzwords that keep cropping up. Though she's not mentioned anything about crystals...but the thing is with naturopathy and "alternative" healing" is they combine/mix factual stuff along with the mystical stuff (quackery) in order to make it sound convincing. The state of Florida is vehemently against this practice, outside of just being a consultant and nothing more. This could hinder one's career if you wind up living in the wrong state.

This woman started off her testimonial about how she cut out dairy in her life, and this caused her allergies to cease as she found some kind of substitute for diary milk in almond milk. I mean, I have hay fever,and when I cut out dairy myself...my allergies ceased...except for allergy season. So there's some fact there, but when she went into "muscle testing" and "emotion code"...I was like "huh"?

Unfortunately, it's these same kind of people that think the Corovirus is "over-hyped' and if you have been pumping up your immune system, you should have no worries. She even tells me when online dating, she makes NO practice at social distancing with her dating prospects as well as her friends. (Invites them over for game night). She said she refuses to "live in fear"...yep, she mentions "fear kills the immune system and thusly can make you a prime candidate to the detriment of Covid.

ALSO, claims to have treated Covid patients of their aliments, including a medical professional that also had the Covid. So apparently, some of her patients are Covid positive. 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2020 by QuietRiot

[Wiseman2]

Run 🏃. Don't bother deconstructing whatever belief systems other people have.

If you don't share the belief, move on.

This thread really isn't about physics or crystals.

"Chrystal crunching" is simply your derogatory term for women you chase whose beliefs in alternative this or that is something you need to bash in a sour grapes sort of way.

[Tamfana]

On 8/9/2020 at 4:36 AM, jspice said:

And you’re still being judgemental. 

Imagine people talking about any other belief system the same way.  I mean, a cracker turning into the body of Jesus Christ is pretty woo-woo, but we accept the mysticism of faiths. Earth-based religions have been around forever.  In the Middle Ages, pagan religious sites were taken over by the Roman Church for recruiting purposes.  And check out the Roman Catholic saints and their mysticism and miracles. 

Edited August 10, 2020 by Tamfana

[sothereiwas]

15 minutes ago, Tamfana said:

Imagine people talking about any other belief system the same way.

I think people DO mostly talk about all forms of faith based healing that way don't they? Believe, sure, whatever. Claim to be healing people of their various ailments, and a lot more scrutiny will be dropped on one. 

[central]

There is also the placebo effect (which has been scientifically studied), so suggestion can make a real difference for some conditions.  However, if a method can't stand up to properly conducted studies, then it is nonsense (aside from the occasional placebo effect).

[Tamfana]

1 hour ago, sothereiwas said:

I think people DO mostly talk about all forms of faith based healing that way don't they? Believe, sure, whatever. Claim to be healing people of their various ailments, and a lot more scrutiny will be dropped on one. 

Yeah, and studies are done.  Fascinating studies.  Meditation and prayer have been found to have healing effects and I think ritual is part of that.  

https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2011/01/eight-weeks-to-a-better-brain/

 

[Weezy1973]

2 hours ago, central said:

There is also the placebo effect (which has been scientifically studied), so suggestion can make a real difference for some conditions.  However, if a method can't stand up to properly conducted studies, then it is nonsense (aside from the occasional placebo effect).

I remember reading a study on acupuncture and the findings were that the only effect on some patients was equivalent to the pain relief offered by ibuprofen / acetaminophen etc. Not all of them, but some. But the cost differential is massive and it certainly won’t cure cancer.

[Tamfana]

There have been some fascinating studies, including a Harvard study that found that meditation and prayer have healing effects. Objects like stones or beads are often part of ritual in both.  

[sothereiwas]

23 minutes ago, Tamfana said:

There have been some fascinating studies, including a Harvard study that found that meditation and prayer have healing effects. Objects like stones or beads are often part of ritual in both.  

Unlikely to have been double blind, I'm thinking. For example. 

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, Tamfana said:

There have been some fascinating studies, including a Harvard study that found that meditation and prayer have healing effects. Objects like stones or beads are often part of ritual in both.  

You have to define healing effects. If I’m thinking of the same study, it was about how relaxation techniques can reduce anxiety, blood pressure etc. They included meditation and prayer as types of relaxation techniques. 
 

[sothereiwas]

1 minute ago, Weezy1973 said:

You have to define healing effects. If I’m thinking of the same study, it was about how relaxation techniques can reduce anxiety, blood pressure etc. They included meditation and prayer as types of relaxation techniques. 

That's not unbelievable or even surprising. What would be surprising is if a double blind study showed that random test subjects who were then randomly selected from the subject pool to either be prayed for or not based on a double blind instruction delivered to prayer-givers, without any other interaction, had any statistically significant effect. 

That would frankly surprise me. 

[Weezy1973]

15 minutes ago, sothereiwas said:

What would be surprising is if a double blind study showed that random test subjects who were then randomly selected from the subject pool to either be prayed for or not based on a double blind instruction delivered to prayer-givers, without any other interaction, had any statistically significant effect. 

That would frankly surprise me. 

This study has been done! It was a small sample size of terminal cancer patients. One group was prayed for and the other wasn’t. Results: no impact. 

[sothereiwas]

25 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

This study has been done! It was a small sample size of terminal cancer patients. One group was prayed for and the other wasn’t. Results: no impact. 

I'm still wearing my not surprised face. 

[sothereiwas]

There is a surprising amount of potential evidence for our universe being a created reality. None of it is incontrovertible, but some of it is a little surprising, for instance the apparent conservation of information that's exhibited in several experiments is not something that seems like it would HAVE to be in place, yet it seems to be so. The resolution of the observable universe is also finite, and apparently a lot more granular than dictated by the Planck limit. Why would that be?

But that stuff is a lot harder to think about than "ooooo, crystals vibrating" 

Edited August 10, 2020 by sothereiwas

[Wiseman2]

On 8/9/2020 at 7:42 AM, QuietRiot said:

I found it ironic that someone was willing to date me regardless of us having had incompatible astrological sides. It's interesting how they are willing to compromise in one moment, and then flip flop back to saying, "Nope, sorry, he/she is a Pisces...deal breaker!"  lol

I could be anything. If they're  not into you they could suddenly state that not having a poodle is a deal breaker.

[jspice]

6 hours ago, Tamfana said:

Imagine people talking about any other belief system the same way.  I mean, a cracker turning into the body of Jesus Christ is pretty woo-woo, but we accept the mysticism of faiths. Earth-based religions have been around forever.  In the Middle Ages, pagan religious sites were taken over by the Roman Church for recruiting purposes.  And check out the Roman Catholic saints and their mysticism and miracles. 

Precisely. 
We should respect people’s beliefs, unless those beliefs use crystals ... because I think they’re nutty and those girls are  only good for a role in the gay anyway  

Catholic people use a rosary. Guess that’s ok. 
A crucifix is perfectly acceptable to ward  off “bad stuff”. 
 

Jewish people wear a Star of David. Again, perfectly fine. 
 

🙄

[sothereiwas]

8 minutes ago, jspice said:

We should respect people’s beliefs, unless those beliefs use crystals ...

I think it's less about the beliefs and more about the claims.

[QuietRiot]

44 minutes ago, jspice said:

Precisely. 
We should respect people’s beliefs, unless those beliefs use crystals ... because I think they’re nutty

🙄

Right, that and the new Flat Earther that's a thing now. If you want to really go "woo-woo", there's that. 

Edited August 10, 2020 by QuietRiot

[jspice]

4 minutes ago, QuietRiot said:

Right, that and the new Flat Earther that's a thing now. If you want to really go "woo-woo", there's that. 

No I’m disagreeing with you about your views. Leave people to their beliefs. 
 

You’re always complaining about women who don’t fit your mould. They’re not interested in you so why do you care about their crystals? 
 

You’ve been at this for years. You need to get over it. 

[QuietRiot]

6 minutes ago, jspice said:

No I’m disagreeing with you about your views. Leave people to their beliefs. 
 

You’re always complaining about women who don’t fit your mould. They’re not interested in you so why do you care about their crystals? 
 

You’ve been at this for years. You need to get over it. 

How do you know I've been at this for years? I've just joined this site a few months ago. 

Edited August 10, 2020 by QuietRiot

[jspice]

24 minutes ago, QuietRiot said:

How do you know I've been at this for years? I've just joined this site a few months ago. 

🤣

[mark clemson]

On the chi and acupuncture thing - it's notable that, per the study mentioned, an effect was found. Doesn't mean chi caused it, but something did.

Worth exploring for research purposes, but totally agree not worth the economics of having a $40/hour practitioner involved when a $0.50 pill can do the same thing. I actually went to an acupuncturist for pain relief around 20 years ago, and after paying the bill for a few weeks essentially realized this exact same thing.

Skepticism is extremely important because there are indeed many charlatans out there. For example one guy, featured on the show Superhumans, was shown to be essentially using the power of suggestion only (with his cultish adherents) rather than any actual "energy". However, there are other things out there (such as the apparent efficacy of acupuncture) that appear to be a bit more compelling.

 

2 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

This study has been done! It was a small sample size of terminal cancer patients. One group was prayed for and the other wasn’t. Results: no impact. 

2 hours ago, sothereiwas said:

I'm still wearing my not surprised face. 

 

One issue with "miraculous" things is we shouldn't necessarily expect them to obey strict causality. IF we postulate they are "truly" occurring, we might assert they are "in vivo" phenomena, controlled by a higher power that's outside of our control, and we are not actually able to establish proper and effective controls. That's actually a quite reasonable assumption IF we're going to take the position they're "real". The downside of course is that most likely makes them unfalsifiable, at least using current methods such as double-blind studies.

You can't tell (natural) lightning when to strike either. You can make it more likely to strike a specific object and (since it is a non-supernatural phenomena) predict when it will probably strike. But you can't actually make it strike in vivo. Miracle healings seem to display a someone similar characteristic of being unable to properly control for. In a way that isn't surprising that "miracle cures," such as at Lourdes, might work in a similar way, if we assume it's possible they work at all.

The flip side of this is that spontaneous remission is a known (if rather rare) medical phenomenon. So, if a miracle only happens once in a while, how to tell whether it's an actual miracle (vs. spontaneous remission via whatever non-supernatural means caused it), is a real issue.