How do You Know If You've Tried Hard Enough?

[findingmenow]

This is my first post - please bear with me.
I met my husband when we were 18, and we’ve been together ever since. Over 20 years - three children, three college degrees, two strong careers...I feel like we have accomplished a lot together. But the last four years have been exhausting. And I don’t think my husband really likes me anymore - in fact, I am not entirely sure he even really knows me at times.

Four years ago, he began to have pretty big mood swings, began drinking a bit more, gained some weight...I thought it was related to him having more issues with his ADD and anxiety. But he started losing his temper with me in front of people or mocking me for not understanding something other people said. He started not attending broader family functions because he said they were irritating. I just adapted and starting taking the kids and our dogs on my own to visit family and friends. And just did not engage with him when he got confrontational.
 

But things got so much worse a year ago. I took a promotion at my job - I am the second in command at an organization that helps businesses and communities grow. We have total assets in the billions and 300 employees. And we do amazing things.  We help create jobs, maintain jobs, and make downtowns more vital. And in time, I hope we can become a major force in supporting economic equity.  But that is a big soapbox I am going to sidestep for right now.

 I love what I do and I am very good at it.  And I am paid well for what I do. And in the last year, I think the gap in pay between my husband and I has become an issue and what he perceives as a shift in our “power dynamic.” (That is not my term - I assumed we were always on equal footing.) He accuses me of manipulating him, taking his masculinity away, undermining his parenting, questioning his intelligence... the list is pretty long.
 

But I am not doing any of those things. I am stepping in with the kids, for example, when he is angry that they did not know he needed help with a task and he yells at them about being lazy. He is really hard on our son at times - so I deflect there as well. He gets angry when I don’t take his (unasked for) advice for my job. His advice is often just wrong. He gets offended when I know more about something than he does, but he says I am just too defensive to listen to his points so he just stops engaging. And he has called me some horrendous things ... only to apologize later. I have begged him to get some counseling over the last several months. We have three children with a lot of mental health issues (adopted from foster care and on the autism spectrum) and our children and I all see individual therapists.  He has never wanted to do that. 
 

I will be the first to admit that I have a strong personality but I always have. I also specialize in solving problems - so I am always looking for the best path forward. I am not as emotional at my core as he is, preferring to think through things first. But when he accuses me of these things - I question my own sanity because I do not see the person in myself that he sees now. I think I am a good person - I can always be better. I don’t always make the best calls and I sometimes get lost in my own brain.  But I never want to hurt anyone, least of all my partner. And I never intend to make him feel like he is less in any way.      I lose my temper at times, but it is usually when I have been pushed to the brink.
 

I try to make sure my job does not impact our family. I do almost everything around the house - cleaning, laundry, bills, volunteering with the schools, helping with my kids’ dance teams and horse riding lessons, making sure I am available at the drop of a hat if the kids need me.  (He is a teacher and leaving at the last minute is very hard so I am always on call.) I wake up early and work after kids are in bed to keep my job from disrupting everything. Keep sex a priority. Keep my mental health strong.  Keep my physical health strong. But I am so tired. I would give anything right now for someone to help me carry the load just a bit. For him to recognize that I am trying so hard.
 

My therapist keeps asking me what I want. And I keep answering that I want to try harder because I don’t want my kids to have any more disruption and we used to be in such a good place. I love my husband. But I guess I am wondering - is there a point where someone has tried enough? How much more do I do to make this work? How do I know when I have done everything I can? 

[schlumpy]

Most people just keep slogging on to he point of no return. You on the other hand have recognized a problem and have given thought to the solution albeit to quit trying.

When the therapist asks you what you want it seems you want your marriage to work and go back to the a good place. You say you are a problem solver so how do you solve this problem?

Your husband definitely needs to be in individual counseling but you indicate he won't go.

How about a family intervention? Do enough family members care about him to pressure him into IC?

Your only other option is to lovingly drop the hammer on him and tell him for his own good he goes to IC or you file for separation. It's the only leverage you have since he is being distant from you.

Anything happening in his life that might have contributed to his behavior? Critical death in the family? Passed over for promotion at work? Depression?

Maybe instead trying harder you should slack off a bit. Assign some of your duties with the kids to him.

I don't know. It sounds like you should have the perfect life and it's still not good enough. I don't understand his lack of cooperation. There must be a reason for that.

 

[Wiseman2]

Sorry to hear that. What happened 4 yrs ago? Did he always drink heavily? Does he use drugs that are controlled substances?

You seem a bit over impressed with your job. It's great to be accomplished but leave work at work.

[findingmenow]

He is never been a user of any controlled substances but alcohol on and off has been a coping mechanism.  Candidly, his parents are just awful - while he has not said so, I think he is finally needing to deal with his childhood.  Even after 23 years, I only know parts of it. But it was bad.
 

I think my job has been an issue - maybe I am too dedicated to it. But I have been working, especially during the last several months of being at home, to lay some better boundaries. 
I suppose I could find a different position, one that doesn’t require so much personal investment. - I would be giving up my career because I have worked for 17 years to get this point. And it would definitely mean a sizeable pay cut - but  we could find a way to manage. But if it makes things better and my kids have a stable home, it would be worth trying. It will take some time because I have no experience in any other industry, but I can figure it out. 

We tried an intervention about three years ago with me and our closest friends. It was about three months of things getting more manageable, but it quickly went back to status quo. Maybe we could include my parents this time and try again. I can talk with my kids as well - we can see if there is a way to make some time for him to have some space, be able to not have any dad or teacher or husband responsibilities to think through and be able to focus on what he needs to do. I thought his gaming times at night were allowing that, but maybe that was not the right way to think about that. 

I will look into separation and what that might entail. The kids and I could go live with my folks for a bit and allow for him to have time to decide what he would like to do.  

I will keep thinking of more solutions - my kids deserve a space of stability and they need their dad. And I am strong enough to keep going to give them that. Thank you for listening. 

[schlumpy]

Do not change your job status unless it is the solution that will make your marriage work.

Sacrificing your happiness for the marriage will probably backfire if he believes you are making all the sacrifices when he is the problem.

I'm afraid you are in a wait and see environment. He is either going to bottom out and get better or continue as is. You need to apply steady pressure without backing him into a corner. He has to believe that he has a limited amount of time to come to terms with his behavior. He has to understand that it is HIS choice and not some outside force that is making him act this way.

I think IC is your only reasonable route.

I'm sorry I couldn't paint a more pleasant picture. 

 

[elaine567]

11 hours ago, findingmenow said:

But he started losing his temper with me in front of people or mocking me for not understanding something other people said. He started not attending broader family functions because he said they were irritating. I just adapted and starting taking the kids and our dogs on my own to visit family and friends. And just did not engage with him when he got confrontational.

Could he be cheating on you?
Men who earn less than their partners are more likely to cheat...
It could explain his irritability and his finding fault with you.
Forcing you to go with the kids and dog to family functions alone may give him space to cheat... His "video game" time may be spent chatting with his OW or other women...
Just a thought.

[amerikajin]

12 hours ago, findingmenow said:

This is my first post - please bear with me.
I met my husband when we were 18, and we’ve been together ever since. Over 20 years - three children, three college degrees, two strong careers...I feel like we have accomplished a lot together. But the last four years have been exhausting. And I don’t think my husband really likes me anymore - in fact, I am not entirely sure he even really knows me at times.

Four years ago, he began to have pretty big mood swings, began drinking a bit more, gained some weight...I thought it was related to him having more issues with his ADD and anxiety. But he started losing his temper with me in front of people or mocking me for not understanding something other people said. He started not attending broader family functions because he said they were irritating. I just adapted and starting taking the kids and our dogs on my own to visit family and friends. And just did not engage with him when he got confrontational.
 

But things got so much worse a year ago. I took a promotion at my job - I am the second in command at an organization that helps businesses and communities grow. We have total assets in the billions and 300 employees. And we do amazing things.  We help create jobs, maintain jobs, and make downtowns more vital. And in time, I hope we can become a major force in supporting economic equity.  But that is a big soapbox I am going to sidestep for right now.

 I love what I do and I am very good at it.  And I am paid well for what I do. And in the last year, I think the gap in pay between my husband and I has become an issue and what he perceives as a shift in our “power dynamic.” (That is not my term - I assumed we were always on equal footing.) He accuses me of manipulating him, taking his masculinity away, undermining his parenting, questioning his intelligence... the list is pretty long.
 

But I am not doing any of those things. I am stepping in with the kids, for example, when he is angry that they did not know he needed help with a task and he yells at them about being lazy. He is really hard on our son at times - so I deflect there as well. He gets angry when I don’t take his (unasked for) advice for my job. His advice is often just wrong. He gets offended when I know more about something than he does, but he says I am just too defensive to listen to his points so he just stops engaging. And he has called me some horrendous things ... only to apologize later. I have begged him to get some counseling over the last several months. We have three children with a lot of mental health issues (adopted from foster care and on the autism spectrum) and our children and I all see individual therapists.  He has never wanted to do that. 
 

I will be the first to admit that I have a strong personality but I always have. I also specialize in solving problems - so I am always looking for the best path forward. I am not as emotional at my core as he is, preferring to think through things first. But when he accuses me of these things - I question my own sanity because I do not see the person in myself that he sees now. I think I am a good person - I can always be better. I don’t always make the best calls and I sometimes get lost in my own brain.  But I never want to hurt anyone, least of all my partner. And I never intend to make him feel like he is less in any way.      I lose my temper at times, but it is usually when I have been pushed to the brink.
 

I try to make sure my job does not impact our family. I do almost everything around the house - cleaning, laundry, bills, volunteering with the schools, helping with my kids’ dance teams and horse riding lessons, making sure I am available at the drop of a hat if the kids need me.  (He is a teacher and leaving at the last minute is very hard so I am always on call.) I wake up early and work after kids are in bed to keep my job from disrupting everything. Keep sex a priority. Keep my mental health strong.  Keep my physical health strong. But I am so tired. I would give anything right now for someone to help me carry the load just a bit. For him to recognize that I am trying so hard.
 

My therapist keeps asking me what I want. And I keep answering that I want to try harder because I don’t want my kids to have any more disruption and we used to be in such a good place. I love my husband. But I guess I am wondering - is there a point where someone has tried enough? How much more do I do to make this work? How do I know when I have done everything I can? 

So you've gotten a promotion (congrats, btw!), but what about his professional life? Is he 'successful' or has he struggled? I think this is obviously more about *him* and not about you.

As a guy who is not the breadwinner of the family, I can relate. We've been conditioned to be the 'leader' of the pack, if you will. I'm not saying it's how I feel or that it's right, but that's what society taught most men over the age of 40 - things may be shifting in the other direction now, but people my age or older definitely live with that understanding of what a 'man' should be.

Personally, I never cared - I am proud of my wife and want her to succeed. What helps her, helps us - that's how I see it. But my area of professional specialization has taken a hit in recent years - took an even bigger hit since we moved to a smaller city and, of course, like so many others in this country, it's really getting crushed by the current pandemic situation. Our finances are fine, and I've actually cleared a lot of money, but I've felt like I've been sliding sideways the last 5 years, and it's hurt my self image. I wonder if your husband's dealing with the same issues.

[Wiseman2]

5 hours ago, findingmenow said:

He is never been a user of any controlled substances but alcohol on and off has been a coping mechanism. 

I think my job has been an issue

Drinking and whatever he takes for his ADD is contributing to the issue much more than your job. His jabs and digs are merely symptomatic of deeper problems, not just some sort of competitive job envy. however it's much easier to believe he's simply jealous of your job than it is to believe you're with an alcoholic and your relationship is serious flawed.

[amerikajin]

50 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Drinking and whatever he takes for his ADD is contributing to the issue much more than your job. His jabs and digs are merely symptomatic of deeper problems, not just some sort of competitive job envy. however it's much easier to believe he's simply jealous of your job than it is to believe you're with an alcoholic and your relationship is serious flawed.

It can go both ways. Problems can be caused by alcohol abuse, but alcohol abuse can be a response to a problem. In this case, it seems that he's having problems adapting to changes in roles and status within the relationship, and that one of the ways he copes with this is by drinking to put the pause button on the stress he's feeling.

[introverted1]

OP, don't change your job. If the genders were reversed here, no one would suggest that a man should change his jobs because a recent promotion might be hurting his wife's ego. 

From what you've written, your husband's slide started 4 years ago, long before your promotion, in any case.  Even if the promotion exacerbated whatever is going on with him, the reality is that this is his issue to fix.  I'm betting that even if you quit or changed jobs, the "benefit" would be temporary.

I think it's time to insist on MC with your H.  The MC may well suggest IC for him, too.

[basil67]

You say that you love him.  Can I ask why you love him?   Because honestly, it doesn't sound like there's much to love.  He's lazy, disrespectful and refusing to address the issues in your family.

I'm worried about your exhaustion.   How many hours per week do you work?    If you're working more than 50hpw, it's not sustainable for your mental health or your family.   And for the record, I would say exactly the same to a man who's working long hours, is exhausted and struggling with work/life balance.    Could you hire an assistant or 2IC and delegate some of your work?    

Regarding the kids, I'm going to guess that while you try and meet a lot of their needs, the vibe in the home is not one which would be conducive to them feeling calm and secure.   Between the mood swings, swearing, drinking, the way he treats you, not engaging with them in social or extra curricular activities,  yelling at them for not guessing what he needs - the kids really shouldn't be around him.   If you were assessing another home for placing ASD foster kids, would you approve him as a carer?   

 

Edited August 12, 2020 by basil67

[BaileyB]

Don’t give up your job. Absolutely. Be proud of what you have accomplished. 

I often think of something Dr Phil used to say to people when they would ask when it is time to get divorced - when you get to a point of apathy. In other words, when both partners get to the point where there is no feeling left - no joy and happiness, no anger and frustration. That’s when you know that you have given your all, and there is nothing left.

I tend to agree with basil, where is the joy in your marriage, in your life? No wonder you feel exhausted, having a husband put you down in the way your husband does would destroy me. What he says and does is not acceptable, particularly because your children are watching. A marriage only works when there are two people contributing - one person can not save a failing marriage alone. Try as hard as you will, if he doesn’t come to the plate... you are just putting in time.

I certainly appreciate that you don’t want to cause any upset for the children. But, what do you think their daily existence is like now - with a father who says terrible things to their mother and is hard on them? Perhaps, they will be grateful for the opportunity to have a more peaceful home life?

And, I can certainly appreciate that you are overworked and unappreciated - that you want someone to help carry the load. Again, I wonder how much easier it would be to carry the load if you didn’t have to worry about upsetting your husband and have all that negative energy in your home/life? 

And finally, the other reason not to change your job, you will need to income should you decide to divorce. And, you will need the joy you find at work to sustain you through difficult days ahead... Definitely don’t quit a job you love for a man - his fragile ego is not worth your happiness... because, let’s be honest here - he’s not going to get happy just because you quit your job. It certainly sounds like he is the kind of man who will just find another reason to complain and put you down...

Edited August 13, 2020 by BaileyB

[Wiseman2]

On 8/8/2020 at 12:31 PM, amerikajin said:

It can go both ways. Problems can be caused by alcohol abuse, but alcohol abuse can be a response to a problem. In this case, it seems that he's having problems adapting to changes in roles and status within the relationship, and that one of the ways he copes with this is by drinking to put the pause button on the stress he's feeling.

Healthy people do not drown themselves in booze to cope with stress. Alcoholics do 

[amerikajin]

10 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Healthy people do not drown themselves in booze to cope with stress. Alcoholics do 

Understood, but sometimes healthy drinking can devolve into unhealthy drinking. Not everyone is an alcoholic from the first sip or whiff of booze. I've known several people who started out as social drinkers and then became problem drinkers over time, using alcohol as a crutch to get through the day or an escape from home life. Either way, whether he was problem drinking when they first met or somehow started later as a response to stress or depression, it's a problem and needs to be addressed, possibly in a clinical setting.

The first point I want to make clear is that the OP is not responsible for his drinking habits - that's on him, regardless of why he's doing it. It makes the relationship problems more complex, harder to solve.

But don't use his alcohol abuse as a reason to discredit his other issues, whatever they are. That in no way means that these other issues are the OP's fault, but they need to be acknowledged and understood. If he feels like he's not understood, he's just going to drown himself deeper in despair - and probably drown himself deeper in his booze, too.

They need to have some time early in the day, when he's not intoxicated, to have some real discussion about issues, and if they can't do that comfortably, then maybe they need a counselor to help them.

Edited August 13, 2020 by amerikajin

[Lotsgoingon]

Absolutely do not even think one second about quitting your satisfying job to pacify this guy--for one, there is no evidence that that will work.

Your therapist is trying to get you to see and take on ownership of the situation. Most likely, you're dilly-dallying saying "I don't know" and "I'm not sure" about whether you want to stay in the marriage. Therapists, the really good ones, try not to get ahead of a client on that issue. Rather they try to help the client get to some clarity and some power ... which will allow the client to make a decision.

I'm going to take a leap and be super blunt. No way you had the perfect marriage until four years ago. And I think you're ducking the question. What is the problem with your husband?! You know the answer to that ... you can hide from your answer because you don't like the answer ... you can evade an answer because the real answer is too frightening. 

Me thinks he has never matched your drive ... and he stopped growing at a certain point ... (he definitely needs therapy to untangle what the hell he is feeling) ... and sounds like you have kept growing and developing ... Yes, your achievement at work frightens him. But if it wasn't work, it would be something else he'd BLAME for his insecurity. The issue is his own insecurity and rage and emotional anger that he has. That's the issue. A lame partner will always try to find some reason that their struggle is their partner's fault. 

I really imagine you have grown and developed in the last ten years ... and at first you couldn't see all the ways he came up short ... all the ways he was emotionally immature ... but at some point, you started to notice, you came into a new reality.

There is no answer to when to give up on a marriage. I gave up when I literally thought staying in the marriage was going to cost me basic sanity and wellbeing. And the solution is not for you to try harder--give that one up sister. That is so out of touch with reality based on the way you describe things here--that the problem could be that YOU are not working hard enough. Puh-lease! ... Not working hard enough to suffer his abusive behavior with a smile? 

Here's a short-term step you can take ... Without deciding one way or the other for now, just let your mind imagine ... concretely ... down to the minutest details ... what a life living apart from him would be like, what it would feel like. Don't edit your imagination ... don't feel guilty with what comes up ... Just let your mind go there ... many people basically decide to quit when it becomes just super clear to them that their life would be SO much better, so much saner, so much more peaceful, ,so much happier, getting out of the marriage. 

Finally I'll say this ... the way you describe your executive skills ... sounds like you are a passionate and fierce leader ... You need a man who loves your career. Come on! The executive you must be looking at the wife you and thinking, WTF? Would the executive you (the woman who really runs that operation) really be mute and seemingly without opinions on what the wife you should do about the marriage?

Ask that executive in you, what the wife in you should think and do!

 

 

[Acacia98]

On 8/8/2020 at 3:52 PM, elaine567 said:

Could he be cheating on you?
Men who earn less than their partners are more likely to cheat...
It could explain his irritability and his finding fault with you.
Forcing you to go with the kids and dog to family functions alone may give him space to cheat... His "video game" time may be spent chatting with his OW or other women...
Just a thought.

That was my thought. I think there are other issues at play, of course. He seems to have deep-seated insecurities and a drinking problem, and then maybe he cheated on her and can't handle the guilt, so he has to find a way to make her the "bad guy".

Edited August 13, 2020 by Acacia98
Adding an explanation

[Acacia98]

2 hours ago, Lotsgoingon said:

I'm going to take a leap and be super blunt. No way you had the perfect marriage until four years ago. 

I'm inclined to agree. Unless something like mental illness, brain injury, or a tumor is a factor, people tend not to change so drastically out of the blues. It is likely that his problematic traits were part of his character, but they were much less exaggerated. 

In response to your question, if there are kids involved and his actions are harming them (emotionally, physically, or both), then you have tried enough. You step away with the kids to protect them.

Edited August 13, 2020 by Acacia98
Correcting a typo

[FudgeSwirl]

There seems to be a much bigger issue here stemming from your husband.  Unless there were other subtle but unusual problems in the past, his sudden inability to adapt to changes and his own change in lifestyle points to a need for him to see his own therapist.  It's either he is suddenly facing the demons of his past, has developed a mental illness, or maybe even a combination of both.  

If you cannot encourage him to see a therapist or at least start by seeing an actual physician then it becomes a matter of waiting it out since you truly want things to work out.  Your therapist will probably go over ways regarding how to respond to his behavior or maybe recommend marriage counseling.

When I was conflicted in my own marriage at the point where I thought maybe we had to be separated, one of my divorced friends told me something to this day that I greatly appreciated which was you will know the day it is over and it will come without a warning.  In spite of how sudden it will be you will know that very day without second guessing yourself that the marriage must end.

Regardless of what happens never let him make you feel bad about yourself including with your job.  You are doing more than enough as a mother and wife.

[findingmenow]

Update: Everything exploded in mid- August with my husband. He is in crisis, a significant mental health issue, brain tumor, something. He began hearing voices and music that is not being heard by anyone else.  And the voices he said he was hearing were our children - ages 17, 15, and 13 - who he said he heard engaging in inappropriate behavior with individuals over the Internet or via FaceTime. None of this was happening - he began secretly recording them without my knowledge - nothing was on the recordings. It escalated to the point that he began to assert that every time I left the house for my morning and afternoon runs, the three kids were getting together to conspire against him.  For the first time in our marriage, he physically threw me after I told him he was scaring me and the kids with his behavior and needed help. I begged him to get help - call doctor, call a therapist, anything - he kept saying no or he was too busy or ... or... or.  
 

It came to a head this week - he accused our children of setting up ghost IP addresses and manipulating the cloud (I have no idea what this stuff means) to sidestep our safety precautions around the Internet to engage in behavior intended to drive a wedge between my husband and I.  And the kids stood up for themselves and said enough.  I told my my family what has been happening the next day. 

My husband does not speak to his parents because they are awful, but I called his sister. And my family loves him like he is their own. And his best friend is involved. They are coming to do an intervention this weekend. I have tried everything I can - so have the kids. He is a potential danger to himself and he is scaring our children. So his support system is asking him to check himself in for emergency inpatient treatment. And I know he is never going to forgive me, ever for telling people what has been happening.  But I still love him even if our marriage has been so very hard the last several years and his life and his relationship with our children are more important than anything else. And I have to be ok with that. I am so tired. And my kids are tired. And my husband cannot carry this burden anymore. 
 

I keep praying this is the right thing - and I hope someday he will see that. And I hope my kids will understand why I am doing this, especially if it ends in divorce. I never thought I would be here. I never thought we would be here. How did we get here? How do we move forward? I guess by tomorrow afternoon, I will know some answers. I hope he chooses to get better.

[schlumpy]

I'm certainly not a doctor but what you stated sounds like the symptoms of Schizophrenia.

I don't think you can rely on his cooperation. You will have to get legal guardianship and force him into treatment. I understand that is not a pleasant thought but the paranoia that he is experiencing will make his cooperation a very difficult task to accomplish. You will need help. Seeing a lawyer may be a good move on your part. Just don't let him know because he will see you as part of the conspiracy against him.

He needs psychiatric evaluation and there are drugs that can help.

You are right to feel like this is a dangerous situation. His decisions will be based on distorted perceptions of reality. That's nothing you can predict.

I don't think family intervention is going to help you out except for support.

Please keep us posted.

[elaine567]

He suffering from psychosis.
"Psychosis is when people lose some contact with reality. This might involve seeing or hearing things that other people cannot see or hear (hallucinations) and believing things that are not actually true (delusions)."
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/psychosis/#:~:text=Psychosis is when people lose,not actually true (delusions).

"Causes of psychosis

It's sometimes possible to identify the cause of psychosis as a specific mental health condition, such as:

schizophrenia – a condition that causes a range of psychological symptoms, including hallucinations and delusions

bipolar disorder – a mental health condition that affects mood; a person with bipolar disorder can have episodes of low mood (depression) and highs or elated mood (mania)

severe depression – some people with depression also have symptoms of psychosis when they're very depressed

Psychosis can also be triggered by:

a traumatic experience

stress

drug misuse

alcohol misuse

side effects of prescribed medicine

a physical condition, such as a brain tumour"

This is serious he needs medical help ASAP.

Edited September 25, 2020 by elaine567

[mark clemson]

12 hours ago, findingmenow said:

And I know he is never going to forgive me, ever for telling people what has been happening.  But I still love him even if our marriage has been so very hard the last several years and his life and his relationship with our children are more important than anything else. And I have to be ok with that. I am so tired. And my kids are tired. And my husband cannot carry this burden anymore.

I keep praying this is the right thing - and I hope someday he will see that.

IF he ever truly comes to his senses, he will understand the dilemma you faced and forgive you for bringing in resources to a situation you were unable to handle alone.

Sometimes there is no "right" thing - only choices among difficult options. Recognize this and make the best you can of the situation.

If this is mental illness (and it certainly sounds like it), IMO professionals should be brought in. Probably the sooner the better.

[findingmenow]

On 9/25/2020 at 7:13 PM, mark clemson said:

IF he ever truly comes to his senses, he will understand the dilemma you faced and forgive you for bringing in resources to a situation you were unable to handle alone.

Sometimes there is no "right" thing - only choices among difficult options. Recognize this and make the best you can of the situation.

If this is mental illness (and it certainly sounds like it), IMO professionals should be brought in. Probably the sooner the better.

Thank you - we were able to get him to go for an emergency evaluation. As for the rest, we will see.