I am the most successful I have ever been, and have never been lonelier

[Kitchen]

They say true success is measured not by how much money you make, but by how many people love you.

Truer words have never been spoken. I am 32, male, and I over the last year I've both made significant advances in my career and more money than I ever made before.

It's not like my life is dedicated to work, hardly so. I work hard enough but not too hard that it shuns my family and friends. Most of my weekends are free, and I don't think I have put in more than 40-50 hours of work in a week.

I'm well educated, knowledgeable about the world, financially savvy, have good parents and siblings, and we are all close. But otherwise, I am so lonely.

I don't have nearly as many quality friends as I need. When I say "quality" friends, I mean those with whom you can can interact with on regular basis. COVID means no meeting in person, which is fine, but I barely have any text or video interaction. My best friend, let's call him Jose, whom I spent much of my early and mid twenties with moved to a different city a few years ago, and our friendship changed, understandably, when he found a girlfriend and got engaged. 

I've had a few other friends move away as well. I am in a big city, not in the middle of nowhere.

I wish I had a solid group. Right now, all I crave for is a group, of maybe 3-4 buddies with whom I can have a whatsapp group with. That's all I want. I once had that with Jose and a few other guys, like 5 years ago, but we all fell apart. I have a few individual friends who are a part of other groups and have that. I have attempted to create groups with a few people but the chemistry between the group was never there and it never went anywhere.

Ironically, the friendship that Jose and I shared was probably greater than most male friends experience with each other. It was really special. I'm not even longing for that specifically; like I said, it's been about 5 years since he found a girlfriend and moved away. I did find another friend, let's call him Jonathan, whom I formed a close friendship with over the last 3 years, but we haven't talked in some time.

When I was young - grade school, middle, high school, and even early college, I had no friends. It was such a lonely time. My parents were concerned, and then even embarrassed that their son had no friends. That was childhood for me. College like I said, it got better. And then in my twenties my social life exploded. Not just because of Jose, but because of so many other people. I had 2 different big groups. Everything was ecstatic. I literally call that period my "Golden Twenties", and much like what happened in the financial golden twenties, everything seemingly collapsed overnight.

It's not like I didn't try. Pre-COVID I was a frequent user of Meetups and Couchsurfing apps. I would go out many times alone just to meet new strangers through these groups. I've even traveled alone numerous times and met good, fun people. But I'm not looking for metaphorical "one night stands", I'm looking for something much deeper.

What I would give up just to have 2-3 buddies to have beers with regularly or share a Whatsapp Group with, you don't even know.

For anyone who was kind enough to read this, thank you.

Edited August 11, 2020 by Kitchen

[Foxhall]

I can relate to some of this- definitely it is nice to have that close group of good buddies that you feel comfortable with,

I have a somewhat unusual scenario with a former close group, we are still close, such as we spent hours texting other while viewing the golf on sunday night,

however we never meet in person these days (long before covid became an issue)

I suppose in the last year or so I have found new buddies that I do meet up with, however the chemistry as you say is not as good as with the older friends,

I think you have to keep moving forward, join things you enjoy and a few friendships will develop over time,

perhaps dont push it too much in the sense of being too anxious to find friends, it will happen naturally over time if you meet folks whose company you enjoy,

In my case I will meet contacts through sports and quizzes, but Im not looking for too much people contact either, a small amount of it is enough for me.

 

[d0nnivain]

Happiness is about having many aspects of your life in harmony: 

career / finances 

relationships

spirituality -- however you define that 

health

 

You got the first one worked out but you seem to be missing friends.   Those one & done things -- meet up etc -- aren't good ways to make lasting friendships.  Trying getting involved in something that meets regularly:  a hiking club; a civic group like the Elks, the Kiwanis, the Moose etc (they are not just old men's groups); become a volunteer fire fighter; get involved in a sport.  On the work front get involved in an industry organization & take up a leadership role like committee chair.   Whatever you do, make sure it has a routine to it so you will be repeatedly exposed to the same people.   

[Wiseman2]

It seems like you need a girlfriend. Put your efforts in to that rather than longing for your college frat type pals and lifestyle.

[Kitchen]

8 hours ago, Foxhall said:

perhaps dont push it too much in the sense of being too anxious to find friends, it will happen naturally over time if you meet folks whose company you enjoy,

This is probably right. I think I have been trying too hard. The few great friends I have had in my life did come naturally. It's probably like finding true romantic love, it happens when you least expect it.

5 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

Happiness is about having many aspects of your life in harmony: 

career / finances 

relationships

spirituality -- however you define that 

health

You got the first one worked out but you seem to be missing friends.   

Agreed. I will say though this was the reverse in my mid twenties. I hadn't had the right career set, while all my friends were doing well in their respective careers. I didn't know what I wanted and I was behind all of them financially. It was sad, but I was never lonely and thus would much rather prefer that instead of what I have now.

It's maslow's hierarchy 101. Other than the money I need for basic needs, the extra just doesn't do anything for me, without having the strong relationships I desperately desire. 

 

4 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

It seems like you need a girlfriend. Put your efforts in to that rather than longing for your college frat type pals and lifestyle.

I never considered having a solid group chat with 3-4 people in which we discuss life and the world, or meeting up for a beer for happy hour, a "college frat type lifestyle".

One can have buddies and share drinks without it having to be a frat party.

[Kitchen]

On 8/11/2020 at 8:56 AM, d0nnivain said:

Happiness is about having many aspects of your life in harmony: 

career / finances 

relationships

spirituality -- however you define that 

health

 

You got the first one worked out but you seem to be missing friends.   Those one & done things -- meet up etc -- aren't good ways to make lasting friendships.  Trying getting involved in something that meets regularly:  a hiking club; a civic group like the Elks, the Kiwanis, the Moose etc (they are not just old men's groups); become a volunteer fire fighter; get involved in a sport.  On the work front get involved in an industry organization & take up a leadership role like committee chair.   Whatever you do, make sure it has a routine to it so you will be repeatedly exposed to the same people.   

You seem to know your stuff. I am actively looking into joining something as such.

 

let me ask you: 

Is it possible to start from scratch at the ripe old age of 30 and build a quality friend circle? By quality I mean, real close good friends. I know you are making those suggestions to join organizations. But frankly, from what I see, the friendships people form at my age are more superficial than the ones formed in high school and college. It feels more like professional relationships, or acquaintances, at least from what I see. For instance I am friends with quite a few people from work, but it is always distanced to some degree. Not the tight closeness of college buddies.

Am I asking for too much? People turn their lives around in many regards at 30, 40, 50 or older. They become successful in new careers, they find romantic love and get married, have children, pay off insane amounts of debt and become rich, become completely sober, go from being morbidly obese to forming perfect bodies.

People accomplish all sorts of seemingly impossible things at the wrong age. That's all I want except in this particular aspect of my life.

 

And before someone says that I need to find a gf, let me first say 1) yes I will be happy to have a gf whenever I click with someone. 2) sadly, I think it's easier to get a gf when you have a good social group to make the connections through. It's not as if I am not trying, I am. But wanting a gf and wanting close buddies is not mutually exclusive.

Two of my closest friends are in fact married, to each other. I was friends with both of them through college and our friendship has survived and grown since then. I love both of them and don't ever feel like a third wheel around them. Anyway, this is a tangent. Thanks for reading.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Kitchen

[d0nnivain]

I am a member of a number of organizations but as an adult the majority of those friendships do feel superficial compared to my life long friends.  I have made some good friends in the last 10 years.  To me social media does help with that because of the ease of sharing pictures & now Zoom / facetime etc.  you can see the other person.  I need that.   Ironically Covid has helped me become closer to my neighbors.  When lockdown began we started having socially distant happy hours on our street on Fridays.  We really got to know each other.  

In all honesty I am blessed because the people I call my closest & dearest friends have been in my life for 30+ years from grade school, HS & college.  

[basil67]

I agree that organizations and groups do feel superficial.  I attend a few crafting groups and while the women are warm and welcoming, they aren't like the close friends in my life.

I think it's really hard to make close friends as we get older.  I was able to start over with new friends when my kids started school and got to know the school mums, but there was quite a gap when old friendships had faded but new ones hadn't yet formed.  

Sorry to have no ideas, but want to send hugs and say that I understand how difficult it is.  

[Kitchen]

@basil67   @d0nnivain

 

I appreciate both of your quick responses and brutal honesty!

I am honestly thinking of taking an extended 1 - 2 month vacation, and going to Europe, maybe join a yacht club, work at some hostels, or something of the sort. Fortunately for me I have the means to take that much time off. Just need to wait until COVID is done.

 

I've suffered breakups in the past and they sucked. But it improved significantly over time.

This hole in my heart just doesn't go away, it slowly progresses and almost gets worse and worse.

 

As I mentioned in my OP. It's just such bad luck, the greatest friend I ever had, better than most male friendships, sprung up out of nowhere, lasted a few years, and now is just mundane. He met the love of his life, moved to a different city, and really just is 100% focused on her. 

But how about that for irony? I spent my childhood friendless. No friends in high school, and no friends in much of college.

But then post college for a period of like 5 years I had the greatest friendship any man can have with another man.

I'm happy for it and glad I experienced it. It's just unbelievable how life turns and twists.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Kitchen

[FMW]

I'm a woman, maybe it's different for men, but here's my experience.

I'm a lot older than you - 55.  In the past 5 years I've developed two very close and important new friendships, and several others that are great, just not so close.  The two closest friendships came about because we were going through similar things in our lives (namely divorces after long marriages) at the time we met and bonded over going through all the uncertainty and new experiences in our lives.  Thinking back, that's how some of my earlier friendships happened as well .  When we're younger we're going through even more changes and more uncertainty, which is probably what makes those bonds so strong.  And usually there are more of those friends around until people start moving away to different colleges, to different cities after college, getting married, etc.

As we age we settle in and experience less change and transition (usually) and our priorities and focus are spouses and children.  Developing new close relationships in those circumstances is then understandably more difficult.  It's more apparent to you right now because you don't have the focus on a spouse and children right now.   

Until Covid lets go of the grip it has on all of our lives it's probably going to be difficult to meet more people, but take advantage of opportunities that do come about to make new friends.  You never know when one of them is going to turn out to be a best friend. 

[d0nnivain]

Stay in touch with your good buddy.  I "lost" some of my dear friends when they had kids.  Now that the kids are older in college & beyond, they are again free to play with  me.  I never have kids & married much later in life.  So make a point to send that guy holiday cards, stay connected on social media & try to see each other periodically even if it's only every year or two.  

Going to another country won't result in making deep friendships.  The long distances & temporary transient nature of that will make deep ties difficult although I am still friends with 2 women I met on a cruise 12 years ago.  One lives in Canada & the other Texas.   I have become close to the wives of the men my husband served in the Marines with even though they live on the west coast of the US while we're 3,000 miles away in the east.  

School based friends are in part built on the repetition.  You see the other people every day.  It's hard to replicate that as an adult.   

[Kitchen]

1 hour ago, d0nnivain said:

Stay in touch with your good buddy.  I "lost" some of my dear friends when they had kids.  Now that the kids are older in college & beyond, they are again free to play with  me.  I never have kids & married much later in life.  So make a point to send that guy holiday cards, stay connected on social media & try to see each other periodically even if it's only every year or two.  

I want to, I try to, but it's diminished. He self admits that he's bad at keeping in touch, it's something he's always said. He's not reliable keeping in touch via text anymore. Meaning, if I send him an article or link or video, 60% of those will have no reply. Once in a blue moon we have deep convos via text, but only when I initiate.

Basically, I found that all our text convos happen when I am initiating. So then I stopped. I stopped replying to articles that he sends just like he doesn't reply to many I send. And now we exchange maybe 3-4 texts a week. It's so stupid, he doesn't reply to stuff I send him, but then the next day he sends me stuff. And I am supposed to reply?

We used to talk on phone like once a week, 1-2 hour conversations, then we did video zooms. But guess what, once I stopped initiating, it all fell apart. So weeks went by and finally HE initiated and we did a zoom. Then another week went by and I set it up and we did it. But that's been a month lol.

I did visit him last year, we had a blast. It actually happened exactly a year ago. We took yearly trips to vegas for the last 2-3 years prior to COVID, all initiated by me.

Is it too much pride on my end for expecting the other person to put in effort as well? He's a great guy. If I need him, he will be there for me. But I just feel like a loser trying all the time. Whether it is our weekly calls, our annual trips away, or visits to each other.

Oh and he's got a gf, no kids yet. He does have a dog. I imagine once he has kids I will not hear from him until retirement.

Edited August 28, 2020 by Kitchen

[amerikajin]

He's probably into his girlfriend, and unfortunately, this happens a lot. Try not to take his lack of communication personally, but I would probably expect less communication from him from now on. The reality is, things do change as we get older, and so do our friendships. Life is kinda like one big train ride in that regard. Each of his is going to our own destination. Our friends are our fellow passengers. Most of the people who ride with us are on the same train for just a while. Some are with us longer. Just appreciate the time you have with someone, but do keep making new connections and new friendships of your own. Whenever old friends try to reconnect, be gracious enough to accept but don't make all the effort. You'll only hurt yourself that way.

I don't know, maybe find some organizations or meet-up groups you can get involved with on weekends.

 

[d0nnivain]

You are expecting too much from him right now.  You want large portions of his time.  He has a GF.  she gets that now. 

Stop with the text conversations.  They are a terrible way to stay connected.  Do say thank you when he sends an article.  Call him for his birthday & send a holiday card.  Invite him & his GF if you are having a party assuming we can ever do that again.  Just be friendly.  

Meanwhile find new people.  

Hang in there.  

 

[Kitchen]

2 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

You are expecting too much from him right now.  You want large portions of his time.  He has a GF.  she gets that now. 

Stop with the text conversations.  They are a terrible way to stay connected.  Do say thank you when he sends an article.  Call him for his birthday & send a holiday card.  Invite him & his GF if you are having a party assuming we can ever do that again.  Just be friendly.  

Meanwhile find new people.  

Hang in there.  

 

The funny thing is though, when I initiate, I do get those portions of his time. Like I said, we would do a weekly phone or zoom call that lasted 1-2 hours, EVERY WEEK, and he's had the gf the whole time.

So it's not a case of her taking up that time. The time is there if I want to make the effort. But only if I make the effort...

[Wiseman2]

Try not to live in the past. You can make new friends by going about your interests and having something in common already.

Time doesn't stand still. People's lives evolve into different things. Professional, family, moving,etc.

[Noproblem]

13 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

You are expecting too much from him right now.  You want large portions of his time.  He has a GF.  she gets that now. 

Stop with the text conversations.  They are a terrible way to stay connected.  Do say thank you when he sends an article.  Call him for his birthday & send a holiday card.  Invite him & his GF if you are having a party assuming we can ever do that again.  Just be friendly.  

Meanwhile find new people.  

Hang in there.  

 

no, that's not really bonding or fun  as texting every week or so or every other day.. to talk about daily life and fun stuff, bad stuff, to really connect, you need to call or text on the regular!

why his gf is all his world now, why he can't remember his friends and talk to them every week,

I don't get this toxic user mentality! and I will never will, sorry!

were friends just tools and when people find love, the hell with these friends.

 

That's why I don't believe in friendship,

people freaking change 360 degree the minute they get a lover, a new career, or move!

It's like that friendship never existed, never mattered, and never measured to anything!

 

"Invite him and his gf to do something fun"

Is that what their friendship amount to now, a fake invitation where they do fake pleasantries and then they forget each other's until next year!

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by Noproblem

[d0nnivain]

1 minute ago, Noproblem said:

That's why I don't believe in friendship,

people freaking change 360 degree the minute they get a lover, a new career, or move!

It's like that friendship never existed, never mattered, and never measured to anything!

 

That is so sad.  My friends are important to me.  Even if we don't see each other now as much as we did when we were carefree children, they didn't change 360 degrees (but I think you mean 180).  They just got different priorities.  I can't expect that spending time with me should take precedence over work, taking care of kids or even sleeping.  Priorities change.  

You do make time for what's important to you but there are only so many hours in a day. 

Inviting people & their SOs is not fake.  They are meaningful, rather than empty, pleasantries.  You do enjoy the time when you are together but then you part until you come together next time.   You can't expect people to focus on a friend every day.  

[amerikajin]

1 hour ago, Noproblem said:

no, that's not really bonding or fun  as texting every week or so or every other day.. to talk about daily life and fun stuff, bad stuff, to really connect, you need to call or text on the regular!

why his gf is all his world now, why he can't remember his friends and talk to them every week,

I don't get this toxic user mentality! and I will never will, sorry!

were friends just tools and when people find love, the hell with these friends.

 

That's why I don't believe in friendship,

people freaking change 360 degree the minute they get a lover, a new career, or move!

It's like that friendship never existed, never mattered, and never measured to anything!

 

"Invite him and his gf to do something fun"

Is that what their friendship amount to now, a fake invitation where they do fake pleasantries and then they forget each other's until next year!

 

You seem angry. Are you dealing with the loss of close friendships?

I agree that making and keeping friends is now harder than perhaps ever. People move around and don't stay in the same place anymore, which makes keeping those old bonds very challenging. It requires a lot of effort from all parties.

I, too, struggle to hang on to old friends, and it has caused me depression in recent years. But some of it is also my fault - I don't reach out as much as I should. I suspect a lot of people are guilty of this. Not saying you are, but a lot of people. We get lazy with tech and social media, and we tend to forget what makes friendships work, which is face time.

[Kitchen]

A lot of people talk about how once one gets married, priorities change. A lot of people once they get a serious significant other, drastically reduce the amount of time they spend with friends. This reduces further when kids are born.

Many people say that even expecting one hang out a week with friends after marriage or gf is expecting too much. Wanting one phone call a week is even too much.

 

Yet, if you look at testimonials of people in their final years of life, there are a few regrets that appear repeatedly. 

"I wish I worked less" is one of them

"I wish I spent more time with my children growing up" is another

And another that I see often is:

"I wish I kept more in touch with friends"

 

Most people agree that giving your life away to work will not make you happy. But many of these same people fail to realize the importance of social bonds. When you stop working so hard, you should not only give your family some time, but also your friends.

I know a lot of couples who DO keep in frequent, valuable contact with friends. Not just married couple friends, but with old friends from the time they were single. It happens.

But some people give all their time to their girlfriends, wives and husbands and not enough to their social circle. I'm just saying that not giving the time to the social circle can end up causing regret later in life.

[Wiseman2]

Get on social media and plan a high school or college reunion.

[d0nnivain]

Kitchen

Since the friendship is important to you, why are you so resentful at having to row the laboring oar?  It sounds like your buddy is responsive when you reach out even if he's not initiating.  i know it's hard for one man to say to another man I wish you'd call me more but there has to be way to communicate that without coming across as needy, weak or some other un-masculine thing.  I'm thinking of something like this when you end the conversation 

"Hey A*sh**e . . .give me a call some time.  I have called you the last 3 (4, 6?) times.  I'm beginning to think your fingers are broken from [pick a vulgar sexual act he could perform on himself]"  Isn't that how guys joke with their buddies?  

My suggestion is extreme but the shock value was designed to make a point.  You can ask for what you want without being whiney.  

Edited August 28, 2020 by d0nnivain

[Kitchen]

2 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

Kitchen

Since the friendship is important to you, why are you so resentful at having to row the laboring oar?  It sounds like your buddy is responsive when you reach out even if he's not initiating.  i know it's hard for one man to say to another man I wish you'd call me more but there has to be way to communicate that without coming across as needy, weak or some other un-masculine thing.  I'm thinking of something like this when you end the conversation 

"Hey A*sh**e . . .give me a call some time.  I have called you the last 3 (4, 6?) times.  I'm beginning to think your fingers are broken from [pick a vulgar sexual act he could perform on himself]"  Isn't that how guys joke with their buddies?  

My suggestion is extreme but the shock value was designed to make a point.  You can ask for what you want without being whiney.  

Haha, that made me smile.

I don't know if I am resentful as much as I am being guarded. As @amerikajin stated above:

Quote

Whenever old friends try to reconnect, be gracious enough to accept but don't make all the effort. You'll only hurt yourself that way.

And trust me, for a long time I did make much of the effort. It didn't bother me a lot until it did, so then I cut down. 

But there is another problem with trying too hard. I think it is human nature, no matter how well intentioned you are, to devalue something that is so easily available. So making the effort all the time, I may inadvertently push him away further. This happens in romantic relationships too. I want to have some self respect so that he will respect me too so to speak. You'll think I am playing games, but is that not how people react? 

 

Now having said that you are absolutely right that it's hard for a man to say to another man to call more. But I did attempt this as well, years ago when he was living in this town. Not regards to calling, but in regards to hanging out. I'd say to him, I wish we could hang out more, etc. Those days are gone, it's hard for me to try at it again.

I guess I am just really guarded.  With other people, I am not as much, which is a good thing. As you mentioned, I should continue to try and make other connections, which is what I do. And with those I am much more willing to get rejected, because I am not as close with them as I am to my best friend. The closer you are to someone, the more vulnerable you are.

Edited August 28, 2020 by Kitchen

[Wiseman2]

Are you on LinkedIn? Upload your contact list and start connecting to people you have in there. Also update your work, education and interests sections and have a good recent head shot.  Join some alumni groups and follow places you work or worked and went to school. Connect to colleagues and former colleagues. Also Stay in touch with people via FB groups.

[Kitchen]

11 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Are you on LinkedIn? Upload your contact list and start connecting to people you have in there. Also update your work, education and interests sections and have a good recent head shot.  Join some alumni groups and follow places you work or worked and went to school. Connect to colleagues and former colleagues. Also Stay in touch with people via FB groups.

That's a great idea. I have a linkedin but I never use it and it has an old photo.

I do use FB and instagram, am involved in some FB groups. But are you saying that linkedin is a lot more effective?