Work colleagues unresponsive and disengaged about hanging out

[TheEternalPessimist]

Hey guys,

I've been having some personal issues lately and my friends who I spoke to about this and who all live abroad said I should develop my social circle and get to know new people. I began working back in January and since late March I've been working from home 99% of the time as have most of my work colleagues. I am fairly new in my area (been living where I live for less than a year), I don't speak the local language much although I'm actively learning it (that's not a problem either way since everyone at the office is foreign anyways and we all communicate mostly in English or in the other languages that we speak), I don't have family here and I don't really have any friends for now. I had one really good friend who moved away for good a few weeks before the lockdown began. My workplace is made up of about 25 people, is about 70% female, 30% male and most people are between the ages of 25 and 35. I would say the average age is about 29 years old maybe, I myself am 26 and my boss is "only" 34. Also, most of my coworkers seem to be in stable relationships from what I can tell which is not my case because I'm single. I could obviously be wrong about them being stable or about a sizeable portion of my work colleagues even being in relationships, it's mostly a gut feeling based on some discussions we've had. 

One of the major complaints I've read online from past and current employees about my company is how the workload and schedules do not allow one to maintain an active social life outside of work. However, all those comments were written pre-pandemic and pre-lockdown when we were all working at the office. I imagine that one of the hardest aspects was the time some spent commuting to the big city which can definitely take a toll on someone when you work say 8 hours a day and spend 2 hours commuting everytime you have a shift. That's personally not my case thankfully. With almost everyone working from home now, that should normally be less of an issue but I could obviously be wrong and for all I know commuting might not even be a major issue since I do have a fair amount of work colleagues living in the city. For more on that, you can see my topic about the bad reviews my company gets from fellow work colleagues where I mention the social life aspect a bit: https://www.loveshack.org/forums/topic/596615-should-i-worry-about-the-terrible-reviews-online-that-my-company-gets-from-fellow-work-colleagues/

As I mentioned in the other topic, we use Skype to communicate with each other during our shifts and while we talk mostly about work-related stuff, we also tend to delve into other topics as well like life in the country, relationships, politics etc. About two months ago, I began hinting or directly writing to some work colleagues I talk to more often both men and women that I would like to hang out outside the office sometime. Most of them responded quite favorably initially ("Sure, that would be nice", "of course we can hang out for a coffee anytime" etc. etc.) only to never mention it again afterwards on their own or show any real interest in making concrete plans when I brought up the topic again. This happened with at least 4-5 different people so far, both men and women. What's strange is that some of them seemed really interested when I mentioned it initially and if that's the case I don't understand why they would pretend to be interested if they aren't going to commit themselves to making it happen afterwards. Seems deceitful and dishonest to me, I can't be the only one making all the efforts. When I commit myself to doing something, I actually follow through on it rather than keep the other person hopeful. At this point, it really feels like I have to run after them which I definitely will not do and don't want to do because it's a waste of time and energy. I don't want to confront them either because A. Even though I am unhappy about their behavior, ultimately they don't owe me anything and B. That would just make the whole situation worse. 7 months in the job and 5 months into working from home, I still haven't been able to hang out with a single coworker outside of work. I don't want to push it and run the risk of coming off as clingy and annoying so for the timebeing I am waiting and thinking about my options. Would love to read your thoughts below!

[basil67]

You're asking others to hang out during times of COVID.  Do you live somewhere where it's relatively safe to go to a social venue?

We live in Australia which is very safe compared to some places overseas and my very social husband hasn't met up with workmates since March.  I've not been on a night out with my girlfriends since then either.   Many people are cautious of the health of themselves and others. 

Edited August 14, 2020 by basil67

[TheEternalPessimist]

10 minutes ago, basil67 said:

You're asking others to hang out during times of COVID.  Do you live somewhere where it's relatively safe to go to a social venue?

We live in Australia which is very safe compared to some places overseas and my very social husband hasn't met up with workmates since March.  I've not been on a night out with my girlfriends since then either.   Many people are cautious of the health of themselves and others. 

I can't tell if it's because of COVID or if they are maybe using COVID as an excuse to do nothing. I myself am very fearful of COVID but I don't exactly stop living because of it. I respect the rules but I still go on trips, for example. If someone were to genuinely propose a hang out to me, I would likely accept right away after checking my schedule of course. Obviously, at the peak of the lockdown in March and April when there were around 250 new confirmed cases in my city every day for several weeks, I didn't say anything to anyone about hanging out because it wasn't smart and it wasn't even allowed back than. Also, I am not entitled and self-absorbed to the point where I would ever ask someone to sacrifice their health just to see me, I can respect different opinions on the current situation but I don't think that's the issue here. 

I live somewhere where it's thankfully relatively safe to go to a social venue, yes. It's not that complicated to keep social distance if you want to when you go out for tea or something and I would never deliberately put myself or put someone in a situation where social distancing wasn't respected, that's just not who I am as a person. Just a few weeks ago, one of my very good friends from abroad came to visit and we hung out twice in less than 4 days. Went out for drinks one evening and then for breakfast a few days later. We wore masks when walking in the streets and we didn't hug or shake hands. The thing is, I have no issues if someone wants to wait for things to calm down even more before hanging out like before but then they shouldn't respond favorably when I propose a hang out only to play dumb afterwards.

Just now as I was writing this, one of my coworkers who I wrote to on Facebook yesterday to ask how she was doing responded with "good you" and immediately followed up with: "I’m on my day off! Running errands. Talk to you later and have a good day!" I didn't even say anything about hanging out but this is EXACTLY the kind of evasive, nonchalant attitude I was talking about. It's even sadder because this is coming from someone who was super open to the idea of hanging out when I brought it up back in May. I don't understand what changed in the meantime.

[basil67]

When we are restricted to errands and very few outings, we reserve the errands for things which *need* to be done and outings for those who are special to us.   Close friends and family.    Sorry, but workmates don't make the list.  I'm sure they would like to hang out with you when this stuff has settled down, but at present it's just not the time for extra outings.

Let it go for now.

[TheEternalPessimist]

That's totally fine if they do not want extra outings for now because of COVID but then they should say so, it's not complicated. Just say you want to wait until things calm down, it's not like I cannot understand that. It's a thousand times more genuine than keeping me hoping for something they either want to wait many more months before doing or that in reality they don't even want to do in the first place but lied to me about for some reason. I honestly at this point won't be at all surprised if they continue to behave this way when things calm down, just a feeling I have. Time will tell. 

[basil67]

Sometimes, you need to read between the lines. 

[TheEternalPessimist]

As in? The situation with COVID is far from perfect but it is still much more stable now than it was back in March or April when I DIDN'T suggest meeting up outside of work because it seemed inappropriate and dangerous. I go back to this again, if someone wants to wait for things to calm down even further that's totally fine and I can respect that but they should say so instead of playing dumb and keeping me hoping. I also deeply question how much the average young adult in my city is truly terrified of COVID to the point that they don't want to meet anyone and would rather stay locked up basically. What I see in the streets tells a different story.

[clia]

Have you tried to make actual plans with them -- like with a date, time, and location?  ("Hey, do you want to grab that coffee this weekend?  What day would work for you?  I'm free on Saturday or Sunday.  If not this weekend, maybe next weekend?  Etc....)   It's not clear from your post.  If you have tried, and they aren't receptive, then you do need to read between the lines that they aren't interested in getting together with you, and drop it.

I will say this -- some people just don't want to develop friendships with co-workers.  They might develop "work friendships," but that's the extent of it.  A lot of people also do what they can to avoid awkward situations.  It would be awkward to be on a Skype call with you, to have you suggest getting together sometime, and saying "no."  So, they say "yes," but really have no intention of ever getting together with you.  (This is actually very common, in all types of settings.)  You can filter these "yeses" out by trying to make an actual plan with them.

[salparadise]

2 hours ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

What's strange is that some of them seemed really interested when I mentioned it initially and if that's the case I don't understand why they would pretend to be interested if they aren't going to commit themselves to making it happen afterwards. Seems deceitful and dishonest to me...

You seem to actually believe that if you approach a colleague and ask if they want to hang out sometime, that they're going to tell you straight up NO if they aren't keen. And further, that it obliges them to take initiative and follow through... even to the point of calling them deceitful and dishonest. It's not them, there is a problem with your expectations.

Sorry to be the one to break it to you, but this is far from how people interact socially. There is an infinite amount of nuance in the way people send and receive social cues, and how they select those they wish to create friendships or relationships with. I can't quite get a handle on the cultural differences because you've obfuscated the details, but there is a big gap between what is and what you expect.

[TheEternalPessimist]

15 minutes ago, clia said:

Have you tried to make actual plans with them -- like with a date, time, and location?  ("Hey, do you want to grab that coffee this weekend?  What day would work for you?  I'm free on Saturday or Sunday.  If not this weekend, maybe next weekend?  Etc....)   It's not clear from your post.  If you have tried, and they aren't receptive, then you do need to read between the lines that they aren't interested in getting together with you, and drop it.

I will say this -- some people just don't want to develop friendships with co-workers.  They might develop "work friendships," but that's the extent of it.  A lot of people also do what they can to avoid awkward situations.  It would be awkward to be on a Skype call with you, to have you suggest getting together sometime, and saying "no."  So, they say "yes," but really have no intention of ever getting together with you.  (This is actually very common, in all types of settings.)  You can filter these "yeses" out by trying to make an actual plan with them.

I didn't make any actual plans with them with a specific day, time and location because I was a bit afraid of coming on too strong and also because I didn't sense that there was an opening there. Also, it's not forbidden for them to suggest a meeting on their own instead of me always being the one to make the first step. That's what's frustrating in all this, feeling as if nothing will happen unless I initiate everything. I guess I was also hoping they would propose something themselves, it goes back to me not wanting to come off as too clingy and running after them all the time.

I will say though, with one co-worker I did propose to send her my schedule and told her when I wouldn't be available but got no response so in that case I just dropped it and I don't expect anything more from her in the future. With that other co-worker I mentioned above (the one that I messaged on Facebook), I even went ahead and told her exactly when I was free but it didn't go anywhere. Also, it doesn't help to organise anything when you get the type of responses I got, immediately being told she is running errands on her day off and cannot text now thus cutting off any potential conversation we could have had at that moment. I sometimes get the feeling that some people act as if it's forbidden for them to make the first step and suggest hang outs so it leads to us perhaps engaging in a waiting game where they wait for me to propose a hang out and I wait for them to do the same. This is just a theory, I have no proof of this whatsoever.

We don't ever do Skype calls, we just use Skype to write messages to each other during our shifts. Often times those messages are work related but they don't necessarily have to be, it's not like someone is monitoring us. 

[TheEternalPessimist]

13 minutes ago, salparadise said:

You seem to actually believe that if you approach a colleague and ask if they want to hang out sometime, that they're going to tell you straight up NO if they aren't keen. And further, that it obliges them to take initiative and follow through... even to the point of calling them deceitful and dishonest. It's not them, there is a problem with your expectations.

Sorry to be the one to break it to you, but this is far from how people interact socially. There is an infinite amount of nuance in the way people send and receive social cues, and how they select those they wish to create friendships or relationships with. I can't quite get a handle on the cultural differences because you've obfuscated the details, but there is a big gap between what is and what you expect.

Approaching them online and through messages is not the same as in real life. They shouldn't necessarily tell me straight up NO but at the same time they shouldn't leave the door wide open either if they aren't willing to put in any efforts. I do think it's deceitful and dishonest if you act like you are open to the idea of hanging out only to never bring it up again yourself and only to act dumb and evasive when I bring it up again. If they genuinely want to hang out, what's stopping them from suggesting a meeting point? Why do I have to be the one to plan everything?

[clia]

49 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

I didn't make any actual plans with them with a specific day, time and location because I was a bit afraid of coming on too strong and also because I didn't sense that there was an opening there. Also, it's not forbidden for them to suggest a meeting on their own instead of me always being the one to make the first step. That's what's frustrating in all this, feeling as if nothing will happen unless I initiate everything. I guess I was also hoping they would propose something themselves, it goes back to me not wanting to come off as too clingy and running after them all the time.

But you are the one who wants this and is initiating it?  I don't understand why you would expect them to make the first step at this point.  You are the one who is trying to make new friends, so yes, you should make the first step in this instance.  If it pans out and a friendship results, then obviously both of you would be initiating things later on.

Quote

I will say though, with one co-worker I did propose to send her my schedule and told her when I wouldn't be available but got no response so in that case I just dropped it and I don't expect anything more from her in the future. With that other co-worker I mentioned above (the one that I messaged on Facebook), I even went ahead and told her exactly when I was free but it didn't go anywhere. Also, it doesn't help to organise anything when you get the type of responses I got, immediately being told she is running errands on her day off and cannot text now thus cutting off any potential conversation we could have had at that moment. I sometimes get the feeling that some people act as if it's forbidden for them to make the first step and suggest hang outs so it leads to us perhaps engaging in a waiting game where they wait for me to propose a hang out and I wait for them to do the same. This is just a theory, I have no proof of this whatsoever.

I am starting to think your expectations are kind of out of line with how people do things when they are initiating a new friendship.  If it were me, I would find something I wanted to do -- e.g., go to a new restaurant, a museum, park, festival, coffee, brunch, movie, breakfast, shop, whatever -- and then I would ask the person if they wanted to go with me.  (I realize with COVID some of this might be a little more difficult.)  I wouldn't be vaguely proposing to send my schedule or telling them when I as free -- I would propose a specific time, date, and activity.  Most people -- if they are actually interested in getting together with you -- will offer an alternative if they can't make it, or at least give you the type of response that you can discern that they do want to get together, but just can't at that particular time, or may at some point reciprocate with the same type of request.  I don't think anyone thinks its "forbidden" to make the first step -- it's more likely just that they might already have a lot of friends and a fairly full schedule, so planning new things with you isn't high on their radar.  

[lana-banana]

54 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

Approaching them online and through messages is not the same as in real life. They shouldn't necessarily tell me straight up NO but at the same time they shouldn't leave the door wide open either if they aren't willing to put in any efforts. I do think it's deceitful and dishonest if you act like you are open to the idea of hanging out only to never bring it up again yourself and only to act dumb and evasive when I bring it up again. If they genuinely want to hang out, what's stopping them from suggesting a meeting point? Why do I have to be the one to plan everything?

Social scenarios are complicated. Nobody wants to be overtly rude to a coworker because we all know we might have to work with them in the future. "No, I'm not interested in getting coffee with you now or ever" would be a pretty harsh thing to say, right? And things are especially complicated right now; I haven't seen any of my friends outside my immediate neighbors since March. Many people may simply not want to take the risk of exposing themselves even if you're in a relatively safe area. Are you open to virtual hangouts, like a Zoom HH or playing videogames together? My office has started a big hangout on Discord where some folks play games and others just chat.

I do think you'll probably have more success if you do in fact identify something you want to do, like go for a hike or grab a cup of coffee, on a particular day or at a certain time. If someone is interested they'll either say yes or propose an alternate plan. If they decline without proposing anything else, you can assume that they don't really want to, and try to be gracious about it. We won't all be the right fit for everyone.

Just reading here you do come off as very intense, which I think is probably reflected in your interactions with your coworkers as well. After approaching 4-5 people and having no luck, it may affect your office reputation as well. Have you considered finding other people to chat with who aren't your colleagues? 

[TheEternalPessimist]

10 minutes ago, clia said:

But you are the one who wants this and is initiating it?  I don't understand why you would expect them to make the first step at this point.  You are the one who is trying to make new friends, so yes, you should make the first step in this instance.  If it pans out and a friendship results, then obviously both of you would be initiating things later on.

I am starting to think your expectations are kind of out of line with how people do things when they are initiating a new friendship.  If it were me, I would find something I wanted to do -- e.g., go to a new restaurant, a museum, park, festival, coffee, brunch, movie, breakfast, shop, whatever -- and then I would ask the person if they wanted to go with me.  (I realize with COVID some of this might be a little more difficult.)  I wouldn't be vaguely proposing to send my schedule or telling them when I as free -- I would propose a specific time, date, and activity.  Most people -- if they are actually interested in getting together with you -- will offer an alternative if they can't make it, or at least give you the type of response that you can discern that they do want to get together, but just can't at that particular time, or may at some point reciprocate with the same type of request.  I don't think anyone thinks its "forbidden" to make the first step -- it's more likely just that they might already have a lot of friends and a fairly full schedule, so planning new things with you isn't high on their radar.  

You're right, I am originally the one who initiated 'the suggestion to hang out BUT once they claim they are open to the idea and write things like "of course we can hang out for a coffee anytime", I expect them to put in a little effort as well. It's not like I forced them to respond positively and again I go back to this point: Nothing is stopping them from proposing a meeting point, a specific date etc. themselves. 

You're also right that I definitely could have been more specific for sure and will try to be next time I bring the idea up again. Some of my co-workers openly told me they were looking for new friends and I know for a fact that some of them did hang out among themselves since March so if they then go out of their way to make it impossible for us to hang out outside of work I find that a little strange to say the least. 

[TheEternalPessimist]

16 minutes ago, lana-banana said:

Social scenarios are complicated. Nobody wants to be overtly rude to a coworker because we all know we might have to work with them in the future. "No, I'm not interested in getting coffee with you now or ever" would be a pretty harsh thing to say, right? And things are especially complicated right now; I haven't seen any of my friends outside my immediate neighbors since March. Many people may simply not want to take the risk of exposing themselves even if you're in a relatively safe area. Are you open to virtual hangouts, like a Zoom HH or playing videogames together? My office has started a big hangout on Discord where some folks play games and others just chat.

I do think you'll probably have more success if you do in fact identify something you want to do, like go for a hike or grab a cup of coffee, on a particular day or at a certain time. If someone is interested they'll either say yes or propose an alternate plan. If they decline without proposing anything else, you can assume that they don't really want to, and try to be gracious about it. We won't all be the right fit for everyone.

Just reading here you do come off as very intense, which I think is probably reflected in your interactions with your coworkers as well. After approaching 4-5 people and having no luck, it may affect your office reputation as well. Have you considered finding other people to chat with who aren't your colleagues? 

No of course no one wants to be overtly rude. At the same time, I don't expect people to leave the door wide open for hanging out if they (maybe) could care less about it. I'm not saying that's necessarily the case with my co-workers although it does feel that way sometimes. I am totally open to virtual hangouts, we don't do those at my work though. I guess overall I just wish those that have identified me as someone willing to form friendships outside of work would make the first step, for once (if they want to form friendships themselves as well of course which some of them have openly said they want to).

I have at least one other person not from work that I may hang out with from time to time, it's not like I absolutely need my work colleagues but at the same time they are the people I interact with the most here except for my roommate. 

 

Edited August 14, 2020 by TheEternalPessimist

[Wiseman2]

6 hours ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

I talk to more often both men and women that I would like to hang out outside the office sometime. Most of them responded quite favorably initially ("Sure, that would be nice", "of course we can hang out for a coffee anytime" etc. etc.)

This is not an invitation. You need to specifically invite someone out for drinks, coffee. Not be vague and general and hope they invite you. If you invite you pay. Sounds like you don't understand the cultural nuances where you  are.

[TheEternalPessimist]

And I shall be more specific if needed although I'm not sure if it will change much directly but we will see. 

[clia]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

This is not an invitation. You need to specifically invite someone out for drinks, coffee. Not be vague and general and hope they invite you. If you invite you pay. Sounds like you don't understand the cultural nuances where you  are.

No, you don't have to pay if you invite someone out as friends.  I mean, you can, but it's not expected -- at least in the USA -- I'm not sure where OP lives or if it would be the norm there.

OP, I would definitely encourage you to try to befriend people outside of work.  Look into volunteering, Meetups, local sports leagues, book clubs, etc. 

[TheEternalPessimist]

Paying if I invite someone out as friends is definitely not part of the culture here where I live and I have in fact never encountered a culture where you are expected to pay if you invite someone out as friends so that's definitely not something I would do. I did pay for the both of us when my friend from abroad came to visit and we hung out twice but that's simply out of kindness and as a thank you for visiting.  

[Wiseman2]

Just now, TheEternalPessimist said:

if I invite someone out as friends...

But you're not inviting them in a specific way.

[TheEternalPessimist]

Correct but it still wouldn't make any sense for me to pay for them and if I invite a female co-worker to hang out for instance then that could even send out the wrong message and come off as a little creepy. I don't think many people that organise hang outs for the first time with their work colleagues end up paying them a drink right away. However if I'm good friends with someone and it's a special occasion (birthdays, religious holidays etc.) then I would absolutely pay for the both of us. 

[ShyViolet]

9 hours ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

They shouldn't necessarily tell me straight up NO but at the same time they shouldn't leave the door wide open either if they aren't willing to put in any efforts. I do think it's deceitful and dishonest if you act like you are open to the idea of hanging out only to never bring it up again yourself and only to act dumb and evasive when I bring it up again.

Sometimes if someone asks another person to hang out, the other person will say "yeah, ok, we should hang out sometime" even if they totally don't want to.  That's a thing that people do.  Even if the person is not interested, they usually don't reply "No, I don't want to hang out with you."  That would sound very harsh, weird and uncomfortable.  Instead they just kinda go along with it in a half-hearted way to avoid making the situation awkward, and then they avoid ever actually making those plans.  The way you keep calling these people "deceitful and dishonest" is a bit strange and over-the-top.  If they seem to be avoiding making plans with you, then you should take the hint that they are not interested in hanging out.  Just move on and try to find friends elsewhere.

[stillafool]

11 hours ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

That's totally fine if they do not want extra outings for now because of COVID but then they should say so, it's not complicated. Just say you want to wait until things calm down, it's not like I cannot understand that. It's a thousand times more genuine than keeping me hoping for something they either want to wait many more months before doing or that in reality they don't even want to do in the first place but lied to me about for some reason. I honestly at this point won't be at all surprised if they continue to behave this way when things calm down, just a feeling I have. Time will tell. 

It's doubtful things (Covid) is going to calm down any time soon.  When the weather gets cooler it will get worse so you might as well get used to people not wanting to get together.

[TheEternalPessimist]

24 minutes ago, ShyViolet said:

Sometimes if someone asks another person to hang out, the other person will say "yeah, ok, we should hang out sometime" even if they totally don't want to.  That's a thing that people do.  Even if the person is not interested, they usually don't reply "No, I don't want to hang out with you."  That would sound very harsh, weird and uncomfortable.  Instead they just kinda go along with it in a half-hearted way to avoid making the situation awkward, and then they avoid ever actually making those plans.  The way you keep calling these people "deceitful and dishonest" is a bit strange and over-the-top.  If they seem to be avoiding making plans with you, then you should take the hint that they are not interested in hanging out.  Just move on and try to find friends elsewhere.

And that's WRONG, that's part of the problem and that's why I call them deceitful and dishonest because they are lying by pretending they are ok with something even though they aren't ok with it at all. No one is forcing them to respond favorably. That kind of insane political correctness is killing off human interactions slowly but surely. Also, if you're not interested in hanging out, don't go one step further in the dishonesty and tell me you are looking for friends because that's hypocrisy to the 10th degree. 

[stillafool]

26 minutes ago, ShyViolet said:

The way you keep calling these people "deceitful and dishonest" is a bit strange and over-the-top.  If they seem to be avoiding making plans with you, then you should take the hint that they are not interested in hanging out.  Just move on and try to find friends elsewhere.

I've learned that people do make time for those they want to see.  It isn't dishonest or deceitful to say you've got errands to run because most people do on their days off.  They don't want to add "I really don't want to hang out with you" that would be rude and mean.