Work colleagues unresponsive and disengaged about hanging out

[basil67]

This thread is remarkably similar to your previous post about your online friend not wanting to meet up.  Except in her case, she said No bluntly and you still felt you deserved to meet her.

People want what they want and they do what they do.   If we don't like what they say or do, all we can do is accept that it is what it is.   Getting upset because they don't do things like how you want it to be done is a fruitless exercise.

 

Edited August 14, 2020 by basil67

[basil67]

4 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

And that's WRONG, that's part of the problem and that's why I call them deceitful and dishonest because they are lying by pretending they are ok with something even though they aren't ok with it at all. No one is forcing them to respond favorably. That kind of insane political correctness is killing off human interactions slowly but surely. Also, if you're not interested in hanging out, don't go one step further in the dishonesty and tell me you are looking for friends because that's hypocrisy to the 10th degree. 

It's not insane political correctness.   They are the same social skills which have been happening for eons.   You may not like it, but it's just how it is.

Edited August 14, 2020 by basil67

[TheEternalPessimist]

3 minutes ago, stillafool said:

It's doubtful things (Covid) is going to calm down any time soon.  When the weather gets cooler it will get worse so you might as well get used to people not wanting to get together.

Assuming that's even an actual genuine excuse people use and not just a convenient cop out. I've seen situations before where people used an arguably justifiable excuse not to do something and then simply moved on to another now cheap excuse when that initial situation which prevented them from doing something was gone. Like I said before, I highly question how the average young adult in my area is truly affected by this crisis to the point of shutting off completely until this is all over. 

[ShyViolet]

3 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

And that's WRONG, that's part of the problem and that's why I call them deceitful and dishonest because they are lying by pretending they are ok with something even though they aren't ok with it at all. No one is forcing them to respond favorably. That kind of insane political correctness is killing off human interactions slowly but surely. Also, if you're not interested in hanging out, don't go one step further in the dishonesty and tell me you are looking for friends because that's hypocrisy to the 10th degree. 

This thing that you're calling "WRONG" is a thing that is part of typical human social behavior... people do it all the time.  It's basically what people do to avoid awkwardness.  Would you honestly rather that people say to you "NO, I don't ever want to hang out with you, I'm not interested" ?  People don't usually do that, unless they are openly angry at the person.  It would just be weird.  You sound a little detached from social norms and how to interact with people socially.  Do you have a history of having a hard time relating to people socially?

 

[ShyViolet]

4 minutes ago, basil67 said:

This thread is remarkably similar to your previous post about your online friend not wanting to meet up.  Except in her case, she said No bluntly and you still felt you deserved to meet her.

 

YES I was thinking the same thing

[stillafool]

Just now, TheEternalPessimist said:

Assuming that's even an actual genuine excuse people use and not just a convenient cop out. I've seen situations before where people used an arguably justifiable excuse not to do something and then simply moved on to another now cheap excuse when that initial situation which prevented them from doing something was gone. Like I said before, I highly question how the average young adult in my area is truly affected by this crisis to the point of shutting off completely until this is all over. 

You are correct that it is a convenient cop out that many are using these days to not hang out or to ghost people they no longer want to be bothered with.  The trick is to recognize when someone is trying to get rid of you and comply.  It saves you a lot of angst.

[TheEternalPessimist]

Just now, ShyViolet said:

This thing that you're calling "WRONG" is a thing that is part of typical human social behavior... people do it all the time.  It's basically what people do to avoid awkwardness.  Would you honestly rather that people say to you "NO, I don't ever want to hang out with you, I'm not interested" ?  People don't usually do that, unless they are openly angry at the person.  It would just be weird.  You sound a little detached from social norms and how to interact with people socially.  Do you have a history of having a hard time relating to people socially?

 

So being sneaky, evasive, dishonest and lying to someone is  "typical human social behavior"? They are directly responsible for creating the awkwardness you say they want to avoid by not saying how they truly feel right from the get-go. YES, I would rather people say they are not interested. I find hints lame and I don't like to play games because when you do that, things tend to get much worse in the long run and I speak from experience.

[basil67]

It's only awkward for those who can't read between the lines.  Those of us who can read between the lines get the message and move on without awkwardness

Regarding how the average young adult is coping - they are pulling back on their social lives and only seeing those who are most important to them.   When we have to ration socialising, cuts need to be made somewhere.   I know it's harsh to say, but the people who are important to them will be the winners here.

[stillafool]

4 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

So being sneaky, evasive, dishonest and lying to someone is  "typical human social behavior"? They are directly responsible for creating the awkwardness you say they want to avoid by not saying how they truly feel right from the get-go. YES, I would rather people say they are not interested. I find hints lame and I don't like to play games because when you do that, things tend to get much worse in the long run and I speak from experience.

Well I think most people call them "hints" which most people are able to pick up on, remove themselves and save their feelings.  Not everyone is as reasonable as you but now that you know this is what she's trying to do are you finally going to leave her be?

[TheEternalPessimist]

2 minutes ago, basil67 said:

It's only awkward for those who can't read between the lines.  Those of us who can read between the lines get the message and move on without awkwardness

Regarding how the average young adult is coping - they are pulling back on their social lives and only seeing those who are most important to them.   When we have to ration socialising, cuts need to be made somewhere.   I know it's harsh to say, but the people who are important to them will be the winners here.

Why put someone in a situation where they always have to read between the lines instead of being honest upfront? It's lame, it's lazy and it leads to poor interactions that could easily be avoided.

We shall see what happens post-Covid but I don't expect anything positive from them at this point based on past similar experiences.

As for my friend from the other thread, she never said no directly and certainly never said it bluntly. I made that clear multiple times in that thread but people read and see what they want to read and see. 

 

[TheEternalPessimist]

3 minutes ago, stillafool said:

Well I think most people call them "hints" which most people are able to pick up on, remove themselves and save their feelings.  Not everyone is as reasonable as you but now that you know this is what she's trying to do are you finally going to leave her be?

Who are you refering to when you say "she"? I'm not going to run after anyone once I know for sure that they are not interested in hanging out. At this point, I am still fairly uncertain that's the case with all my coworkers I spoke to about it. I am willing to try one last time with some of them in the upcoming weeks. 

[basil67]

Just now, TheEternalPessimist said:

Why put someone in a situation where they always have to read between the lines instead of being honest upfront? It's lame, it's lazy and it leads to poor interactions that could easily be avoided.

We shall see what happens post-Covid but I don't expect anything positive from them at this point based on past similar experiences.

As for my friend from the other thread, she never said no directly and certainly never said it bluntly. I made that clear multiple times in that thread but people read and see what they want to read and see. 

 

We do that because it's the social norm.   There was a woman in our group years ago who I'd run into periodically and she'd say "Oh, we must catch up soon".   I'd smile and say yes and it would never happen.   Granted, I didn't follow it up because I really didn't want to lunch with her, but I wasn't about to tell her that bluntly because we're conditioned to not be rude.  

Dare I ask if your nickname here reflects your outlook on life?   If does, I would suggest that a more positive and chill outlook on life will increase chances of people wanting to hang out with you.  

[Ha-ha]

I guess you live in Switzerland. If Yes, then That’s the norm in Switzerland where there is a strict segregation of social life. Coworkers do not tend to become friends outside work. Dishonest and hypocritical?  They’re actually being extra polite to avoid further awkwardness. 

[TheEternalPessimist]

@basil67: Being conditioned to not be rude is in fact actually making some people look incredibly rude deep down, that's the sad irony in all of this and I'm not targeting you specifically, this is more of a general comment. Not to mention that it leads to various terrible misunderstandings because when you hide how you truly feel, it's bound to blow up in some way someday. Every time I was honest right from the get-go about something, I noticed the extremely positive impact it had on me and how there was next to no negativity. 

My username is a reflection of many things but I don't show off that pessimism much in real life. In fact, while we were still working at the office, I had a lot of coworkers come to me to tell me how I always looked happy at work and how it was a pleasure working with me. I don't think I'm a wonderful person but at the same time I don't think I'm anywhere near as horrendous as some might think.

Edited August 14, 2020 by TheEternalPessimist

[TheEternalPessimist]

Just now, Berlin said:

I guess you live in Switzerland. If Yes, then That’s the norm in Switzerland where there is a strict segregation of social life. Coworkers do not tend to become friends outside work. Dishonest and hypocritical?  They’re actually being extra polite to avoid further awkwardness. 

I don't live in Switzerland.

I do think if you tell someone who talks to you about hanging out that you are actually looking for friends and then proceed to act dumb when the topic of hanging out is brought up again, you are being hypocritical somewhat, yes. That's the equivalent of telling someone you are looking for a job and then acting dumb when that person finds you a good job offer and refusing to even consider it.

[basil67]

@TheEternalPessimist do you ever feel like there is an instruction manual for understanding other people which you never got to read?

[TheEternalPessimist]

Just now, basil67 said:

@TheEternalPessimist do you ever feel like there is an instruction manual for understanding other people which you never got to read?

There is no such thing as an instruction manual for understanding other people because everyone is different. While it's true that some people think you guys do and there are things that can be learned from it, there are also some people that would probably agree with a lot of things I wrote here so far. 

[basil67]

That was an extremely literal interpretation of what I just wrote.   Are you often literal in your interpretations of what people say?

And yes, you're right that there is no instruction manual.   Perhaps I should rephrase to ask if you wished there was an instruction manual for understanding the nuances of how others behave.

 

[FudgeSwirl]

Even with things improving in certain places in terms of covid it is still a tricky time to socialize because there are people who still will not venture out no matter what out of fear for themselves or fear for those who live with them that are immunocompromised.  I have a few friends whose lives have only been working from home and seeing their family members so I have not seen them since lockdown.

You are not wrong that people do use excuses to not hang out with someone and covid is an excuse that someone can use to avoid socializing intentionally. 

Try to set a simple social distancing hangout down to a date or time (ex: coffee or walking around a local park).  If the person(s) tell(s) you they don't want to do anything because of covid unfortunately for now you will have to give those individuals the benefit of the doubt.  If the response is how the date and time isn't fitting, propose another date and time or ask when is more convenient.  If the person(s) give(s) you the run around then it's likely he/she/they is/are not interested in hanging out with you outside of work.  

[ShyViolet]

6 hours ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

So being sneaky, evasive, dishonest and lying to someone is  "typical human social behavior"? They are directly responsible for creating the awkwardness you say they want to avoid by not saying how they truly feel right from the get-go. YES, I would rather people say they are not interested. 

So because these people don't want to hang out with you, they are "sneaky, evasive, dishonest, lying" and in another post you said "lame and lazy".   These people are not doing what you want them to do, and your response to that seems inappropriately aggressive and almost angry.  This is not how you make friends.  Your behavior is a red flag and it is likely to turn people off.  You seem very lacking in the area of social skills and reading people's social cues.

Blunty telling someone "I am not interested in being your friend" is considered rude in our society.  That's one of our social norms.  The fact that you're having such a hard time understanding that makes me wonder if you have an ongoing difficulty with social skills and navigating social situations.  Your other thread certainly points to that as well.

[TheEternalPessimist]

No they are not "sneaky, evasive, dishonest" etc. because they don't want to hang out with me, they are those things because of their behaviors and because their initial reactions heavily contradict their subsequent behaviors. If I don't want to hang out with someone, I don't initially go out of my way to make it seem as though I really want to. 

[basil67]

How did they got out of their way?  I thought that you suggested it and they gave a warm answer.    Someone who 'goes out of their way' will chase you up to make sure it happens.

[TheEternalPessimist]

13 minutes ago, basil67 said:

How did they got out of their way?  I thought that you suggested it and they gave a warm answer.    Someone who 'goes out of their way' will chase you up to make sure it happens.

It was a very warm answer and saying you are looking for friends is a good giveaway, I think. Going out of your way doesn't have to involve chasing after someone and that would in many cases be considered harassment. 

[Wiseman2]

Maybe they are just being polite and have to interact with you because of work but have no interest in socializing with you outside of work. They may find you too rude and combative for their tastes. 

[TheEternalPessimist]

1 minute ago, Wiseman2 said:

Maybe they are just being polite and have to interact with you because of work but have no interest in socializing with you outside of work. They may find you too rude and combative for their tastes. 

They don't even have to interact with me a whole lot because of work, that's the thing. They often initiated conservations themselves during online shifts. With the work that we do, especially now that we are online and not seeing each other in person at the office, I can literally go soms 3-4 weeks without writing messages to some of them.