Struggling with autism and the pain of social awkwardness

[Mark987]

I’d thought I’d make this post as an inclusive list of why dating is incredibly difficult for males on the spectrum. I was diagnosed when I was 5 and had to take meds for it. It’s easy to say that dating is difficult for all guys in general, but that ignores the social components of meeting and greeting that are universal in getting to know someone, which comes natural to NTs.

I still have hope for finding someone, even if the chances are very low. I live with a positive mentality hoping to find someone even though I’m not a perfect socializer. Like I said, autism makes things like this impossible to learn.

1. You need a confident approach. Men can’t just say “Hi, how are you?” They need a witty opening or a topic that’s related to the environment both are in. For example, in a coffee shop, he has to say “What do you think of this music?” But that’s the only example I can think of because some guys aren’t born with creative thinking to open up with a conversation at work, at church or a grocery store. It’s just “Hi, my name is:” or “Hi, how are you?” Dead end.

2. Spicing up the conversation is a must. You need to make her laugh and let her ask questions about you, which is one of the hardest things in the world because I’m not a natural salesman, much less someone with an NT brain. Autistic people tend to ask logical questions like “Where are you from/what part of Kansas are you from?/how long have you been working?” Asking thought provoking questions is something I can’t get and will never come natural even though I’ve read books and practiced for years. I can’t learn it.

3. You have to be yourself, WHILE keeping her guessing about whether you like her or not. Since most women can read body language pretty well, it’s impossible for autistic people like myself to get it. You have to flirt and banter with her in a NATURAL way so that she enjoys your company. It can’t just be a “how was your day/did you get that promotion?” conversation. I still can’t understand how to throw dating hints and let a girl be interested in chasing me since I can’t wrap my head around how it works.

4. Never ever ever misspeak/gaffe. I’ve had a girl ghost on me last month when I accidentally said “Brad Jolie and Angelina Pitt” in an hour of talking. She felt uncomfortable and I tried to steer the conversation back after I said, “I mean Brad Pitt and...” so I came off as unconfident. She never replied to my texts again.

5. Don’t read any PUA/Red Pill dating advice. Everything given above must be your true personality and you shouldn’t read guides that aim to “pick up girls”. What I mean is that points 1-4 apply to talking to people, whether friends or dating. If you haven’t learned this stuff when you were 17 from your dad and with high school clubs, you will come off as fake/scripted and women will feel uncomfortable. It has to come from the heart. Being socially awkward and confident isn’t attractive, same with being socially correct and unconfident. Only grounded confidence and social skills is.

 

I haven’t even gone into how to break the touch barrier with a girl on a date or how to keep a busy life while seeing someone. Because you can’t be easily available (<20 hours a week) OR too busy (40+ work week). Don’t forget that love comes when you “least expect it” so don’t be looking for it and at the same time, socialize perfectly when the moment hits you.

Edited August 23, 2020 by Mark987

[Wiseman2]

Unfortunately you are reading pick up artist nonsense and that makes it seem worse. All you have to do is be in shape, decently dressed, well groomed and friendly able to smile and make some small talk. That's it. Work with a therapist to talk about dating rather than reading this misinformation online.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

2 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately you are reading pick up artist nonsense and that makes it seem worse. All you have to do is be in shape, decently dressed, well groomed and friendly able to smile and make some small talk. That's it. Work with a therapist to talk about dating rather than reading this misinformation online.

He literally just said in #5 not to read that crap.

It definitely is harder for those on the spectrum than it is for NT folks.  I just watched Love on the Spectrum on Netflix (and several follow-up videos on YouTube) and it was pretty eye opening.  

Don't give up! I think there's a lid for almost every pot! (I mean someone for almost everyone  ).  

[basil67]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately you are reading pick up artist nonsense and that makes it seem worse. All you have to do is be in shape, decently dressed, well groomed and friendly able to smile and make some small talk. That's it. Work with a therapist to talk about dating rather than reading this misinformation online.

With all due respect @Wiseman2 you're speaking as an NT who already possesses the skills of small talk, reading body language and knowing how to engage someone in conversation.  Suggesting this is "all you have to do" to someone who has trouble grasping those ideas to start with is not helpful.

[Mark987]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

With all due respect @Wiseman2 you're speaking as an NT who already possesses the skills of small talk, reading body language and knowing how to engage someone in conversation.  Suggesting this is "all you have to do" to someone who has trouble grasping those ideas to start with is not helpful.

Too often NTs take those skills for granted. I’ve refrained from listening to songs like “Make you miss me” by Sam Hunt. The music is beautiful and I love the tone, but I can’t relate to the singer’s story, because how can I talk to a girl in a way where she misses me and I’m doing it smoothly? It doesn’t work like that for me and people on the spectrum.

 

I will take a look at “Love on the Spectrum”. I haven’t watched Netflix series on Autism since the Atypical part 1 so I’ll definitely be checking back to that new show. It should help.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Mark987

[Wiseman2]

My advice was to work with your therapist. So yes all you have to do is read posts before attacking.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

7 minutes ago, Mark987 said:

Too often NTs take those skills for granted. I’ve refrained from listening to songs like “Make you miss me” by Sam Hunt. The music is beautiful and I love the tone, but I can’t relate to the singer’s story, because how can I talk to a girl in a way where she misses me and I’m doing it smoothly? It doesn’t work like that for me and people on the spectrum.

 

I will take a look at “Love on the Spectrum”. I haven’t watched Netflix series on Autism since the Atypical part 1 so I’ll definitely be checking back to that new show. It should help.

It is a reality show.  Real life people (from Australia).  

[basil67]

7 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

My advice was to work with your therapist. So yes all you have to do is read posts before attacking.

Nobody attacked you.   I simply pointed out that "all you have to do" is poor advice for someone who struggles with those skills to start with.   The OP agreed.  

[Wiseman2]

11 hours ago, basil67 said:

 @Wiseman2Suggesting this is "all you have to do" to someone who has trouble grasping those ideas to start with is not helpful.

 Suggesting someone speak to thier therapist, stay fit and in good health as well as enlist the help of friends family to improve appearance is excellent advice. I choose not to talk down to people with disabilities.

People with all kinds of situations can find love. However they do need some skills for that which best come from therapists, friends, family and support communities, not sensational reality TV 

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

 not sensational reality TV 

Have you even seen the show?  It's way more of a documentary than sensational TV.  It's actually very educational for everyone who wants to understand autistic individuals better.  

[elaine567]

I didn't realise it was on Netflix, I thought it was just aired in Australia but I just watched the first episode.
It is very good so far and it is heart warming stuff...

[d0nnivain]

I don't have any great insights to offer.  I intellectually understand that it is hard to read the social cues but having no experience with that I can't offer insights into not being able to. 

I don't think you have to be as glib  / interesting / charming as you think you do.  The woman who ghosted you over the Jolie / Pitt mistake was just mean.  I mixed up my friends' daughters' names all night on Friday.  I have been calling my new dog my old dog's name & pronoun  Not everyone speaks perfectly all the time & perfection isn't required.  Most people are often so hung up on their own issues & concerns about how they are coming across they don't notice other people's small gaffs but to the person who makes the gaff it seems gigantic.  My advice:  cut yourself a break. 

Even with Autism you can learn some conversational skills.  Those techniques are something you master not something you are born with so there is hope.  I believe many of the autism organizations have webinars & other tools to help with dating & social struggles.  Have you checked any of them out?  

[elaine567]

16 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

The woman who ghosted you over the Jolie / Pitt mistake was just mean.

Agreed.
She used the mistake  as an excuse to ghost him, or she just wasn't feeling it in general.
A woman who was interested would have found the mistake hilarious or merely pointed it out, or would have said nothing at all. 

[Watercolors]

On 8/23/2020 at 4:38 PM, Mark987 said:

I’d thought I’d make this post as an inclusive list of why dating is incredibly difficult for males on the spectrum. I was diagnosed when I was 5 and had to take meds for it. It’s easy to say that dating is difficult for all guys in general, but that ignores the social components of meeting and greeting that are universal in getting to know someone, which comes natural to NTs.

I still have hope for finding someone, even if the chances are very low. I live with a positive mentality hoping to find someone even though I’m not a perfect socializer. Like I said, autism makes things like this impossible to learn.

1. You need a confident approach. Men can’t just say “Hi, how are you?” They need a witty opening or a topic that’s related to the environment both are in. For example, in a coffee shop, he has to say “What do you think of this music?” But that’s the only example I can think of because some guys aren’t born with creative thinking to open up with a conversation at work, at church or a grocery store. It’s just “Hi, my name is:” or “Hi, how are you?” Dead end.

2. Spicing up the conversation is a must. You need to make her laugh and let her ask questions about you, which is one of the hardest things in the world because I’m not a natural salesman, much less someone with an NT brain. Autistic people tend to ask logical questions like “Where are you from/what part of Kansas are you from?/how long have you been working?” Asking thought provoking questions is something I can’t get and will never come natural even though I’ve read books and practiced for years. I can’t learn it.

3. You have to be yourself, WHILE keeping her guessing about whether you like her or not. Since most women can read body language pretty well, it’s impossible for autistic people like myself to get it. You have to flirt and banter with her in a NATURAL way so that she enjoys your company. It can’t just be a “how was your day/did you get that promotion?” conversation. I still can’t understand how to throw dating hints and let a girl be interested in chasing me since I can’t wrap my head around how it works.

4. Never ever ever misspeak/gaffe. I’ve had a girl ghost on me last month when I accidentally said “Brad Jolie and Angelina Pitt” in an hour of talking. She felt uncomfortable and I tried to steer the conversation back after I said, “I mean Brad Pitt and...” so I came off as unconfident. She never replied to my texts again.

5. Don’t read any PUA/Red Pill dating advice. Everything given above must be your true personality and you shouldn’t read guides that aim to “pick up girls”. What I mean is that points 1-4 apply to talking to people, whether friends or dating. If you haven’t learned this stuff when you were 17 from your dad and with high school clubs, you will come off as fake/scripted and women will feel uncomfortable. It has to come from the heart. Being socially awkward and confident isn’t attractive, same with being socially correct and unconfident. Only grounded confidence and social skills is.

 

I haven’t even gone into how to break the touch barrier with a girl on a date or how to keep a busy life while seeing someone. Because you can’t be easily available (<20 hours a week) OR too busy (40+ work week). Don’t forget that love comes when you “least expect it” so don’t be looking for it and at the same time, socialize perfectly when the moment hits you.

Do you have a therapist you go to see regularly for your autism diagnosis? You are fortunate. My family member is a nonverbal autistic and doesn't even have friends, let alone could ever date anyone.

I think you should just be yourself and try to enjoy the dating process as best as you can. Try not to get lost in the minutiae of "dating advice" blogs, youtube videos, which can offer unrealistic advice to daters. Just be yourself. The right person will like you for who you are.

[Foxhall]

Id say on your point 1 there- dont be worrying how imaginative or creative your opening line is,

better say something than nothing at all, and "How are you"? is ok really, if you are dwelling too much on thinking of creative things to say, you will stay in a shell forever,

you will meet people who will be happy to tell you how they are, some may find  it boring but who cares cant please them all.

Myself not autistic but I have had a lot of issues with shyness over the years,  shyness is a disadvantage but it has never stopped me finding women or making friends,

a poster here- it was either Basil or Bailey B ( I have a good memory) mentioned the a-z guide for conversation,

think of something for each letter- Apple- what is your favourite fruit-  yes I use apples in all my smoothies- any kind of stuff like that-just to keep a conversation going- does not have to be especially interesting conversation- just to be able to avoid awkward silences is a good starting point.