elaine567 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 Grabbing and throwing to the ground yes if you assume or know he has not got a weapon already in his hand. A weapon already in his hand may mean instant death for a cop or cops or even members of the public, depending on the weapon. Jacob Blake was repeatedly told to stop to no avail and made the mistake of reaching into his car. At that point he crossed the line into being out of control, capable of anything, and the cop felt he had to shoot him to stop him. In a perfect world he would still be uninjured, but in a perfect world every citizen would not have or be assumed to have a gun, necessitating an armed police force... 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Piddy Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 44 minutes ago, elaine567 said: Grabbing and throwing to the ground yes if you assume or know he has not got a weapon already in his hand. A weapon already in his hand may mean instant death for a cop or cops or even members of the public, depending on the weapon. Are you ascertaining he had a knife in his hand from watching the tape? Because you must be watching another tape than the one I see. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Piddy said: Are you ascertaining he had a knife in his hand from watching the tape? Because you must be watching another tape than the one I see. What I am saying is that we don't know and neither did the cop. If he had had a knife in his hand or a gun of some description then God knows what may have happened. Grabbing an unarmed guy may be fair enough but no-one knew for certain he was unarmed... all that was known was he reached into his car for some reason and wouldn't stop when asked to do so... Link to post Share on other sites
lana-banana Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 Nobody has an issue with his being grabbed. That is not the point. This is about the murder. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, lana-banana said: Nobody has an issue with his being grabbed. That is not the point. This is about the murder. Has he died? Link to post Share on other sites
gamon Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 1 hour ago, elaine567 said: Jacob Blake was repeatedly told to stop to no avail and made the mistake of reaching into his car. At that point he crossed the line into being out of control, capable of anything, and the cop felt he had to shoot him to stop him. ^This. He could have grabbed a gun and shot the cop who was directly behind him. The shooting was clearly justified however it probably won't play out that way due to the "court of public opinion" which will probably turn this long time felon with a history of assaulting police officers into a paralyzed millionaire. Link to post Share on other sites
some_username1 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 1 hour ago, lana-banana said: Having a knife in the car justifies grabbing someone by the back and shooting them seven times? I have a knife, a wrench, a towel and a flashlight in my car at all times. Does that make me "armed" when I'm not in my car? Do I deserve to be grabbed and shot seven times too? There is no way anyone can watch the video and conclude Jacob Blake was posing any kind of imminent threat unless you believe that Black men are inherently dangerous. Grabbing a suspect is one thing. Emptying seven shots into his back is never justifiable, ever, full stop. This is not a confusing situation. Cops don't do this to white suspects who have already committed murder or who are armed, so why is it appropriate when the suspects are Black? A friend of mine is a very devout Catholic and when he sees/hears people saying horrible things his reaction is to say "Go see a priest!", sometimes with "you sick f-ck" added at the end, in a tone of utter disgust. I used to think it was kind of ridiculous, and I'm not religious myself, but nowadays I see where he's coming from. If you find yourself online defending the assassination of an unarmed (having a knife in your possession but not on your person means you're unarmed, this isn't hard) man then, seriously: go see a priest. “There is no way anyone can watch the video and conclude Jacob Blake was posing any kind of imminent threat“ Jesus wept, yet again you’re just pontificating from behind your computer screen about what it looks like on a bloody video! You have absolutely no understanding at all of what it must be like to be there in the flesh with a live weapon and a suspect who is resisting Police and concealing his hands in a vehicle where a gun could be stowed. History will tell you if you care to look that there has been plenty of occasions when people have opened fire on police in similar circumstances. All I can say is if it’s as easy as watching a video while you’re sat in your bedroom in your underpants then maybe YOU should take the first steps in reforming society yourself by becoming a cop as you obviously have all the answers and you can obviously cope with the mental stress of the situation because, y’know, you watched a video once and made a few judgements on it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, gamon said: The shooting was clearly justified The shooting was NOT justified. If Blake was such a threat every officer at the scene would have had a weapon drawn. The fact that only one cop took out his weapon & only one cop fired shows you that it was overkill. This next part may be unpopular but I feel it must be addressed. The cop shot Blake 7 times at point blank range. For the sake of Blake's family & kids thank God he's alive but the cop shot 7 times at point blank range into the man's back. He ought to be fired for being a lousy shot! This isn't Hollywood. If you pull out a weapon you shoot center mass until the target stops moving. You don't go for an arm or knee. Again thank God this wasn't a murder but it reminds me of the Amadou Diallo, the guy in the Bronx NYin the late 1990s who died in a hail of gunfire where the cops miss the majority of their shots. Link to post Share on other sites
lana-banana Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 55 minutes ago, elaine567 said: Has he died? Attempted murder. Attempted killing. No, he may not be dead and I apologize for the error, but seven shots to the back at point blank range is an attempt to kill, full stop. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, lana-banana said: Attempted murder. Attempted killing. No, he may not be dead and I apologize for the error, but seven shots to the back at point blank range is an attempt to kill, full stop. Reported that only 4 shots actually hit him. i think every attempt to stop a person in such a situation with a police gun is likely to kill the "offender". These are body shots, one doesn't tend to survive multiple body shots. The intention is I guess to kill. Whether it was considered justified, will be up to the courts to decide. Link to post Share on other sites
Piddy Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, elaine567 said: What I am saying is that we don't know and neither did the cop. If he had had a knife in his hand or a gun of some description then God knows what may have happened. Grabbing an unarmed guy may be fair enough but no-one knew for certain he was unarmed... all that was known was he reached into his car for some reason and wouldn't stop when asked to do so... I don't think we know any of that (reaching). I don't take what the cop says as the gospel. Again, I don't want cops shooting people in the back. There's been too many cases where the cops said he had a weapon and it turned out to be a cell phone etc.. Again, many cops see black males as suspects first. See, if the cop already has that mindset, he's liable to act on that and an innocent person ends up dead. Edited August 28, 2020 by Piddy 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Piddy Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 13 minutes ago, elaine567 said: Reported that only 4 shots actually hit him. Blake's father said he had 8 holes in his body. He's very lucky to be alive. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
gaius Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 Police officers do not need to wait for someone to thrust a knife or point a gun at them. They also aren't required to retreat if they feel threatened during the course of making an arrest. If you give them reasonable suspicion to believe you are going to harm them, which includes reaching into your pocket or an area they can't see unannounced, you are giving them cause to use force on you. Including deadly force. @Piddy, there's a second video of the shooting that clearly shows Jacob Blake physically struggling with the police on the other side of the car before he gets up, walks around and gets shot. Either you haven't watched it or you're trying to change the facts to fit the viewpoint you want to have. Which doesn't fall into the category of "reasonable". But if you want to be unreasonable feel free, that's your right. There's a scene in either Casino or Goodfellas where the cops riddle some Italian guy with bullets because they think he has a gun when he was only carrying a sandwich wrapped in tin foil. It was based on a true event. And I'm sure they weren't prosecuted for it. It's impossible for police to be 100% accurate without exposing themselves to a high probability of harm. Which is why we put the onus on the civilian to behave appropriately. Jacob Blake made a mistake, didn't, and he paid for it. Instead of pretending he was in the right, let's teach people not to do what he did. So both civilians and police officers can get home safely every night to their families. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Tamfana Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) The Kenosha police thanked the militia guys, said they appreciated their help. Edited August 28, 2020 by Tamfana 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
gamon Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 1 hour ago, d0nnivain said: The shooting was NOT justified. If Blake was such a threat every officer at the scene would have had a weapon drawn. The fact that only one cop took out his weapon & only one cop fired shows you that it was overkill. No, it means that cop was in the best position and deemed the offender to be a threat. The actions of the other cops or lack thereof does not change the fact that the offender could have grabbed a gun from his car and shot the cop that was directly behind him. He was completely disregarding the officer's instructions, he has a history of assault against police officers, and he's a lifetime criminal. He clearly deserved every bullet he received. Link to post Share on other sites
Angelle Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 42 minutes ago, elaine567 said: Reported that only 4 shots actually hit him. i think every attempt to stop a person in such a situation with a police gun is likely to kill the "offender". These are body shots, one doesn't tend to survive multiple body shots. The intention is I guess to kill. Whether it was considered justified, will be up to the courts to decide. Four shots aren't bad? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Tamfana Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 On 8/26/2020 at 11:40 AM, elaine567 said: I get he didn't deserve to get shot but .... My wild child white daughter has mouthed off, defied cops and been arrested but no guns were ever pulled. They were able to get her arms and hands. Just sayin'... 3 Link to post Share on other sites
gaius Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, some_username1 said: It appears those on the left wing are not putting any personal responsibility on Blake at all. All the onus is on the Police to resolve the situation and the suspect is not expected to comply or come quietly and he can reach for weapons in the knowledge that the country will riot in his honour if he’s not allowed to reach for a knofe in his car, it’s ridiculous. The underlying message a lot of liberals seem to give out with their viewpoints is that black people aren't capable of behaving. That they can't be expected to not fight with the police, etc etc. But in reality black people are just as capable as anyone else. There's no reason to hold Jacob Blake to a much lower standard because he's black as is being done here. There was a video a few weeks back of a black guy who got pulled over and was being verbally abused by a cop. So he just turned the camera on his phone on. He didn't fight with the cop, he didn't make threatening gestures, he just filmed. And now he's home alive and the cop is under investigation. That's a smart guy who uses his head right there. Good for him. Jacob Blake's father said the Jacob "can't understand why the cops shot him so many times". I guess he would have understood if they shot him once but 7 times? That's mystifying to him. He's apparently not the brightest bulb on the tree and in no way shape or form representative of the vast majority of black people I run into. Edited August 28, 2020 by gaius 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Angelle Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, gaius said: The underlying message a lot of liberals seem to give out with their viewpoints is that black people aren't capable of behaving. This isn't true, at all. See Tamfana's post above. I haven't seen any comments reflecting what you wrote. Edited August 28, 2020 by Angelle 3 Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, gamon said: No, it means that cop was in the best position and deemed the offender to be a threat. The actions of the other cops or lack thereof does not change the fact that the offender could have grabbed a gun from his car and shot the cop that was directly behind him. He was completely disregarding the officer's instructions, he has a history of assault against police officers, and he's a lifetime criminal. He clearly deserved every bullet he received. Gross. Even if Blake is a lifelong criminal he has constitutional rights that cannot be taken away by a vigilante cop. I agree he should have been arrested but not killed. There were 2 cops following Blake as he walked to the car. There were about 5 cops at the scene. Only 1 cop had his gun out. Only 1 cop grabbed him. The 2nd cop was close enough to help the 1st cop pull him back. Instead the 1st cop shot Blake. That was an overreaction. The Rittenhouse kid walked down the street with an assault rifle after shooting a white person, then others who tried to stop him. Cops rolled right on past even as black voices screamed that Rittenhouse was the shooter. His white skin caused those cops to assume he wasn't a threat. That is racism! Edited August 28, 2020 by d0nnivain 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Prudence V Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 54 minutes ago, Piddy said: Again, many cops see black males as suspects first. Trevor Noah did a great clip on this. I won’t post a link as it will go to auto moderation, but Google will find it if you’re interested. “To some people, a black skin is the most deadly weapon.” 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Tamfana Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, gaius said: The underlying message a lot of liberals seem to give out with their viewpoints is that black people aren't capable of behaving. No. We don't want racists in police departments. Get the bad cops out, cops that consider themselves allies of white militia with big guns. Kenosha cops stood down as the militia guys shot. Then they didn't arrest him. Edited August 28, 2020 by Tamfana 3 Link to post Share on other sites
gamon Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 27 minutes ago, d0nnivain said: Gross. Even if Blake is a lifelong criminal he has constitutional rights that cannot be taken away by a vigilante cop. I agree he should have been arrested but not killed. There were 2 cops following Blake as he walked to the car. There were about 5 cops at the scene. Only 1 cop had his gun out. Only 1 cop grabbed him. The 2nd cop was close enough to help the 1st cop pull him back. They weren't just "following him". He could have been armed with a knife or a gun, if they go to "grab him" they could have been shot or stabbed. Not sure what part about "he wasn't complying with demands and could have been reaching for a lethal weapon" you don't understand but it's nothing to do with racism or so-called vigilante cops. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 7 minutes ago, gamon said: Not sure what part about "he wasn't complying with demands and could have been reaching for a lethal weapon" you don't understand but it's nothing to do with racism or so-called vigilante cops. I understand the possibility. What don't you understand about the idea that if he had been white, the cop would not have assumed he was reaching for a weapon? Link to post Share on other sites
schlumpy Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 58 minutes ago, Angelle said: Four shots aren't bad? Depends on the type of ammunition they are using and there are many types. Link to post Share on other sites
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