Jacob Blake Video

[gamon]

dup

Edited August 28, 2020 by gamon

[gamon]

1 minute ago, d0nnivain said:

I understand the possibility.  What don't you understand about the idea that if he had been white, the cop would not have assumed he was reaching for a weapon? 

How do you know that?

[Piddy]

1 hour ago, gaius said:

 

 

@Piddy, there's a second video of the shooting that clearly shows Jacob Blake physically struggling with the police on the other side of the car before he gets up, walks around and gets shot. Either you haven't watched it or you're trying to change the facts to fit the viewpoint you want to have. Which doesn't fall into the category of "reasonable". But if you want to be unreasonable feel free, that's your right.

Haven't seen the second video.  But that doesn't make a difference.  Struggling with cops isn't a death sentence.  So that fact doesn't change anything for me.  Again, deadly force should be the last resort.  

Quote

There's a scene in either Casino or Goodfellas where the cops riddle some Italian guy with bullets because they think he has a gun when he was only carrying a sandwich wrapped in tin foil. It was based on a true event. And I'm sure they weren't prosecuted for it. It's impossible for police to be 100% accurate without exposing themselves to a high probability of harm. Which is why we put the onus on the civilian to behave appropriately. Jacob Blake made a mistake, didn't, and he paid for it. Instead of pretending he was in the right, let's teach people not to do what he did. So both civilians and police officers can get home safely every night to their families.

Nope.  We're never going to agree.  The problem isn't black males complying.  The problem is black males being targeted because of their skin color. 

But you do make a point.  Black parents have a talk to their kids that white parents don't need to.  Many tell them that you will be targeted by racist cops and what to do.  One thing is if you're pulled over by a cop,  to turn your inside light on and keep your hands on the wheel.  

We want you to come home alive.

But I digress. 🥴

Edited August 28, 2020 by Piddy

[d0nnivain]

Because it happens all the time.  A white male poster hear on LS talked about all the  time he had weapons in his truck & the police did nothing.  A mother in this thread said her white wild child has never been confronted with a weapon even when acting out.  I have seen cops over-react because the actor is black.  I was in a courthouse & a black neighbor of mine growing up who has a criminal record, moved to hug me hello (obviously before Covid) & every cop in the atrium put his hand on his gun because I'm a white woman.  

Watch all of the Rittenhouse videos.  AFTER he shot multiple people & was walking down the street with an assault rifle multiple cops rolled passed the armed white kid even as black voices shouted that he was the shooter.  Those cops didn't see the white teen as a threat.  

That's how I "know" that if Jacob Blake was white he would not have gotten shot.  

[some_username1]

4 hours ago, Tamfana said:

My wild child white daughter has mouthed off, defied cops and been arrested but no guns were ever pulled.  They were able to get her arms and hands. Just sayin'... 

Dare I say it but there is probably a fair bit of “female privilege” in that, where women are not expected to pack any heat. That’s on the cops involved. If it were me, in a country like America, I would want to see your hands at all times no matter your ethnicity and no matter your gender.

[Piddy]

Jacob Blake's father says his son is shackled to his hospital bed. 

He's paralyzed.  If this is true, this is one of the more inhumane things I've heard in awhile.

[some_username1]

5 hours ago, gaius said:

The underlying message a lot of liberals seem to give out with their viewpoints is that black people aren't capable of behaving. That they can't be expected to not fight with the police, etc etc. But in reality black people are just as capable as anyone else. There's no reason to hold Jacob Blake to a much lower standard because he's black as is being done here.

There was a video a few weeks back of a black guy who got pulled over and was being verbally abused by a cop. So he just turned the camera on his phone on. He didn't fight with the cop, he didn't make threatening gestures, he just filmed. And now he's home alive and the cop is under investigation. That's a smart guy who uses his head right there. Good for him.

Jacob Blake's father said the Jacob "can't understand why the cops shot him so many times". I guess he would have understood if they shot him once but 7 times? That's mystifying to him. He's apparently not the brightest bulb on the tree and in no way shape or form representative of the vast majority of black people I run into.

Great example, of one of the many many incidents involving Black people and cops that doesn’t involve a homicide on a daily basis. Given the total number of arrests daily America-wide an incident like this must still be a massive statistical anomaly and yet people act like the Police are out there killing every black person they see.

That person you mention did it exactly right and the situation has worked for the best and that is exactly how it should be. So I really worry about this whole minimising of civil disobedience. Whilst I don’t want to live in a Police state I fully believe in the rule of law and as far as I am concerned if you step out of line you get what’s coming to you, religion, gender and race be damned. So many apologists seem to be advocating that the rule of law can be broken by the proletariat and the Police just have to suck it up. What kind of world are we going to end up living in if we follow this through to the nth degree? We might as well just disband all Police in the western world if we all agree that people can just do what they like when confronted by an officer and we absolve the suspect of all responsibility for the escalation of the situation.

This guy Blake was allegedly down for aggravated assault and all sorts, I can’t help but think that the defence of him that has been launched by the left would soon be revoked if he was your boyfriend coming round threatening you and your kids. It’s so easy to judge when you aren’t the officer with the live weapon and when it isn’t your family’s safety that Blake was threatening.  Next time you need the Police’s help to deter a potentially violent criminal I’m sure you won’t be considering the aforementioned criminal’s human rights. When you are in that situation and your kids are at risk you will quickly cash in your leftist chips and demand that the aggressor is dealt with punitively. Maybe by then the Police will have been defanged to the extent that they turn around and say “sorry ma’am, we can only ask him nicely but if he doesn’t listen we can’t touch him because our hands are tied” and then it becomes very much YOUR problem to sort out.

What a world.

Edited August 28, 2020 by some_username1

[Tamfana]

delete..............

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by Tamfana

[some_username1]

2 minutes ago, Piddy said:

Jacob Blake's father says his son is shackled to his hospital bed. 

He's paralyzed.  If this is true, this is one of the more inhumane things I've heard in awhile.

I wouldn’t disagree with that. If paralysed that is a totally needless action that is only going to create more problems. Personally I think the guy was in the wrong for resisting arrest but to incapacitate someone  in the hospital and inflict such an indignity on them reflects very, very badly on the people involved

[Tamfana]

28 minutes ago, some_username1 said:

Dare I say it but there is probably a fair bit of “female privilege” in that, where women are not expected to pack any heat. That’s on the cops involved. If it were me, in a country like America, I would want to see your hands at all times no matter your ethnicity and no matter your gender.

But that isn't what happens.  In reality- which is the complaint, the reason for protest- there are racists in police departments and they need to go.  I'm not sure where you live but where I grew up and where most of my extended family lives, the racists (whatever label, used to be klan) have been a problem forever.  As we discuss security-versus-protest this factor must be known.  They're a bigger factor than many realize. For instance, the White supremacists march in these towns.  Just march.  Armed with those big guns.  They yell and wave swastikas.  

Or they hang around in gangs at bars or 7-11, armed to the teeth.  It's intimidating.  It's intended to be.  

I don't know of ANY major outlets that film these and show these on TV.  But it's a drumming presence I promise you. 

Edited August 28, 2020 by Tamfana

[some_username1]

1 minute ago, Tamfana said:

But that isn't what happens.  In reality- which is the complaint, the reason for protest- there are racists in police departments and they need to go.  

And white boys get a lot of grace from cops too, you know the old, "aw, he's just kid getting into trouble" line. Black kids don't get that grace at all.  People who don't get that shouldn't be cops.  People who have some issue with any group- whether race, religion, gender, anything-shouldn't be cops.  Armed cops.  With qualified immunity.  The duty is to serve and protect the community and if you can't do that or hedge and quibble, just go get a different job.  

Some racists call cops and make threats toward black people just going to their own homes or walking in parks.  They actually interfere with police business because they freak out for no reason.  The gall.  smh.  But anyway, there's a lot of it and it's bad for the country. Let's end it. 

 

I totally agree, I’ve no doubt that favouritism exists in many forms across the Police force, some will be ableist, some will be racist, some will believe in the fairer sex and some will be all of those things. I make no bones about race, gender, sexuality etc. Everyone should obey the law even if you think you are justified in the way you act and no matter how exempt you think you are save it for the precinct. We need laws that people obey imo, it’s the foundation of society because human nature being what it is there will always be people looking to take advantage of it. Some of those, unfortunately will end up in the Police that’s a fact of life and I don’t think we can ever expect a perfect police force, especially in a country like America.

[Tamfana]

7 minutes ago, some_username1 said:

I totally agree, I’ve no doubt that favouritism exists in many forms across the Police force, some will be ableist, some will be racist, some will believe in the fairer sex and some will be all of those things. I make no bones about race, gender, sexuality etc. Everyone should obey the law even if you think you are justified in the way you act and no matter how exempt you think you are save it for the precinct. We need laws that people obey imo, it’s the foundation of society because human nature being what it is there will always be people looking to take advantage of it. Some of those, unfortunately will end up in the Police that’s a fact of life and I don’t think we can ever expect a perfect police force, especially in a country like America.

Agreed, and we must always expect one and be diligent in ensuring our government actors don't harm our people. Frankly, we haven't done that yet nearly well enough so there's more to do.  

See to me that;'s one of those flutter-inducing patriotic values- we strive to excel.  But right now, we're doing terrible.  

Also once you include the white supremacist factor and THEIR goals, which they write about a lot, we're looking at mass shootings and racist attacks on temples, churches, and so on, too.  The confluence of police and the WS's can't happen.  We have to be extra diligent on that as those WS groups flex their muscle and test their boundaries. 

Edited August 28, 2020 by Tamfana

[some_username1]

2 minutes ago, Tamfana said:

Agreed, and we must always expect one and be diligent in ensuring our government actors don't harm our people. Frankly, we haven't done that yet nearly well enough so there's more to do.  

See to me that;'s one of those flutter-inducing patriotic values- we strive to excel. 

Yeah I agree in the sense that the highest standards should always be applied now more than ever in terms of getting the right people for the role of Police. How do we know what they are made of though until they are actually in a life or death situation? I’m fortunate in that in my country we don’t have legalised guns so the Police are able to play more of a “keep the peace” role and whilst there are a lot of complaints people losing their lives on the regular isn’t one of them. Unfortunately in America if you arm your citizens you have to arm your Police and this amplifies the repercussions if you get a bad penny that makes it in to the force. I still stand by my assertion that we don’t have any appreciation for what it must be like to be a police officer with live weapons. It’s easy to dismiss them as racist when what we really need is a reading of the cortisol their body is throwing at them. Anyone who can shoot the likes of Blake with low cortisol in their system is likely to be a nasty piece of work. If the opposite and the officer is clearly under stress, then that goes some way to showing us that it’s much less racism and an example of how torturous it must be to make those sort of decisions on the fly. I certainly wouldn’t want to be put in that position and I would like to think the officer with the gun didn’t either as Blake’s hands disappeared, I’m sure he would rather have been anywhere but there. I hope that’s not just wishful thinking on my part!

The only answer, imo, is to repeal guns but I don’t think that will ever happen in my lifetime. It seems to be a quirk of American sociology that people need to be armed. I’ve only been to America once many years ago but have no intention of ever going back given the state it is currently in.

 

[Tamfana]

14 minutes ago, some_username1 said:

Yeah I agree in the sense that the highest standards should always be applied now more than ever in terms of getting the right people for the role of Police. How do we know what they are made of though until they are actually in a life or death situation?

 

Police have to file reports and citizens can contest the accuracy of reports- and most do if arrested.  So officers build records of their conduct over time.  one of the problems we face is that many (do all?) police departments have unions too, so there are actually two hierarchies in many departments.  Over the decades, we've seen some- only some, but pretty notorious- police misconduct that is alleged, and then bad cops loyal to other hierarchies- and to each other as their lives depend on it- will protect each other, bully witnesses, kill witnesses in some cases.  There have been many instances of horrific police misconduct in our history.  And there have been infinite examples of klansmen, vigilante groups, racist groups meshing with or being the police.  It's not as big a problem now, but it's real and growing right now.  Facebook has FINALLY taken down groups. 

The FBI rates it a top threat too.  

White supremacists were responsible for the second biggest terrorist attack on our country!  Second after 9-11.  These people didn't care that they'd also be blowing up a childcare center.

Edited August 28, 2020 by Tamfana

[major_merrick]

I kind of see both sides on this one.

Jacob Blake is no saint.  Had an active warrant for sexual assault.  Prior issues with law enforcement.  If they knew his identity, the police were justified in being cautious.  Knife found in his vehicle after the fact in the area where he was reaching.  That's either suicidal, careless, or just plain stupid.  He should have thought of his FAMILY and attempted to de-escalate the situation.

The cops were absolutely wrong in their use of force.  I understand that the possibility of him turning around with a gun in hand was definitely on their minds.  But using lethal force PRIOR to somebody being a clear threat is not justified.  If a citizen was to shoot a home invader who had turned around and was leaving, they would be charged with MURDER.  Why are the cops held to a different standard?  Why do they get to be more on edge than the rest of us?  I call that "Blue Privilege." 

To me, nobody involved is in the right on this one.  And the rioters and those disturbing the peace are not in the right AT ALL.  If the cops can't/won't stop the looting and burning, then the militias or somebody else will have to do it.  There's no excuse for annoying people, threatening people, and destroying the private property of those who have absolutely nothing to do with the issue.  This is one where people ought to shake their heads, let this situation sort itself out in good time, and determine that they'll do better personally and as a community before stuff like this happens.  Wise law enforcement agencies ought to pre-plan their response in case of a violent altercation with a black person involved.  All law enforcement agencies need to seriously re-evaluate their training, and be sure to emphasize non-lethal force.  Wise civic leaders ought to figure out a response to potential law enforcement mistakes.  Because the outrage will outpace the facts, and then things get destroyed.

None of this should have happened.   

[SincereOnlineGuy]

3 hours ago, major_merrick said:

I kind of see both sides on this one.

Jacob Blake is no saint.  Had an active warrant for sexual assault.  Prior issues with law enforcement.  If they knew his identity, the police were justified in being cautious.  Knife found in his vehicle after the fact in the area where he was reaching.  That's either suicidal, careless, or just plain stupid.  He should have thought of his FAMILY and attempted to de-escalate the situation.

The cops were absolutely wrong in their use of force.  I understand that the possibility of him turning around with a gun in hand was definitely on their minds.  But using lethal force PRIOR to somebody being a clear threat is not justified.  If a citizen was to shoot a home invader who had turned around and was leaving, they would be charged with MURDER.  Why are the cops held to a different standard?  Why do they get to be more on edge than the rest of us?  I call that "Blue Privilege." 

To me, nobody involved is in the right on this one.  And the rioters and those disturbing the peace are not in the right AT ALL.  If the cops can't/won't stop the looting and burning, then the militias or somebody else will have to do it.  There's no excuse for annoying people, threatening people, and destroying the private property of those who have absolutely nothing to do with the issue.  This is one where people ought to shake their heads, let this situation sort itself out in good time, and determine that they'll do better personally and as a community before stuff like this happens.  Wise law enforcement agencies ought to pre-plan their response in case of a violent altercation with a black person involved.  All law enforcement agencies need to seriously re-evaluate their training, and be sure to emphasize non-lethal force.  Wise civic leaders ought to figure out a response to potential law enforcement mistakes.  Because the outrage will outpace the facts, and then things get destroyed.

None of this should have happened.   

you're not seeing either side clearly though.

 

His being saintly isn't relevant to the picture.

 

He was indeed suicidal, careless, OR just plain stupid.

 

(he should have thought,  period)

 

You don't understand the law.      If I catch a burglar in my house, standing in my hallway... and he had just texted his mom:  

"Hi mom,  done here... just leaving now" ... and a nano-second later I gun him down in my hallway (hitting him in the back)...     there is no court in the land that would charge me with murder.

(the text to seemingly prove  to you that he was "leaving")

 

Arguably "POC" have nothing  to do with the issue.

The issue is discrimination against the poor...     and the problem is that it is too challenging to discern the vast group that is the American poor... from the vast group that comprise American POC.

AND, as the poor and poverty-stricken are not  protected classes,  anybody trying to win any sympathy has to go and duck under somebody else's umbrella.  (thus the POC)

 

If the protesters had any logic to them at all, they would diverge from the millionaire athletes who share basically nothing in common with them or their plight.

 

Alas, along with the unprotected plight of the American poor, comes a tendency for a lack of education, and the desperation which just might land them a nice score when marauding through central business districts.

 

If everyone, somehow overnight, would cease immediately to associate POC with "poor" or "desperate" ...   then racism would take a major step back from prominence, policework would be much more 'fair' to all, and the society all around would be far more comfortable for everyone.

As it stands (and as the media so cheerfully coaches us 24/7)...  you show up for jury duty...  get selected for a trial... and first see the defendant...   and far too many decide immediately that  "s/he looks guilty"  based only on skin color.

 

 

[basil67]

44 minutes ago, SincereOnlineGuy said:

You don't understand the law.      If I catch a burglar in my house, standing in my hallway... and he had just texted his mom:  

"Hi mom,  done here... just leaving now" ... and a nano-second later I gun him down in my hallway (hitting him in the back)...     there is no court in the land that would charge me with murder.

I just looked this up.  Not all states have the Castle Doctrine and/or the Stand Your Ground Doctrine.   And self defence must show that you did not use more force than was necessary.  

So there may well be a court in the land which would charge you with murder.

[elaine567]

11 hours ago, Piddy said:

Jacob Blake's father says his son is shackled to his hospital bed. 

He's paralyzed.  If this is true, this is one of the more inhumane things I've heard in awhile.

Supposedly all people with active warrants in that jurisdiction are routinely shackled in hospital.
Once highlighted in the media by his father, the shackles were removed.

[Piddy]

Once his bond was paid the shackles were removed. Standard procedure they said.  

Still ridiculous and inhumane knowing he's paralyzed.

[Prudence V]

21 hours ago, Prudence V said:

Trevor Noah did a great clip on this. I won’t post a link as it will go to auto moderation, but Google will find it if you’re interested. 
 

“To some people, a black skin is the most deadly weapon.” 

Here is the clip. 

[Tamfana]

15 hours ago, basil67 said:

I just looked this up.  Not all states have the Castle Doctrine and/or the Stand Your Ground Doctrine.   And self defence must show that you did not use more force than was necessary.  

So there may well be a court in the land which would charge you with murder.

Yeah.  And the castle doctrine doesn't apply in a public street.  That's no one's personal residence. 

Edited August 29, 2020 by Tamfana

[major_merrick]

@SincereOnlineGuy  We definitely agree on poverty-based discrimination.  My ill-treatment at the hands of police was likely due to the perception of poverty and also lack of English.  Bad police pick on those they see as more vulnerable - less likely to put up effective resistance, or less likely to come back with an effective lawsuit. 

The interesting thing about poverty in the USA is that personal choices are a huge factor.  Not the only factor, but certainly not small.  My parents were poor because they made bad choices.  When I grew up and could choose for myself....well I'm not poor anymore.  Same thing for Blake.  Why did he get shot?  A big factor was his bad choices.  No matter what bad choices the cops made, if Blake had made better choices the outcome could have been different.  I know that can sound like "blaming the victim" but in the end, one big truth of life is that you can't control other people.  You can only control yourself. 

Living in a world with bad police, I plan for bad police.  I know that in an interaction with police, I have minimal time to decide whether to comply or to resist.  Once that choice is made, total commitment is required.  Whatever choice you make, doing it in a halfways manner is dangerous.  The sooner people realize this, the sooner they will be able to effectively deal with law enforcement.  At least, until we succeed in removing bad police from our lives and re-establishing the law's accountability to the people. 

 

[gamon]

On 8/28/2020 at 12:51 PM, d0nnivain said:

I understand the possibility.  What don't you understand about the idea that if he had been white, the cop would not have assumed he was reaching for a weapon? 

Why would you assume that the cop wouldn't have responded the exact same way to a white guy?

 

[Zona]

If you resist arrest, ignore repeated warnings, brawl with cops and then run to your car and reach in, you will likely get shot regardless of the color of your skin.

Quote

"Why didn't he just comply?" --- is this a joke?

So you are saying people should be free to ignore police officers in such situations and then make moves that could be deemed as threatening, all because there have been some isolated incidents of police misconduct? I'm not sure I follow that logic.

Now in the case of George Floyd, the autopsy has indicated that he likely died from an overdose of Narcotics (fentanyl) which caused him to stop breathing. I'm not saying the cop is innocent of wrong doing, but this needs to be taken into account in the investigation. If anything, he is guilty of not getting him the medical attention he obviously needed in a timely manner.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Zona

[ajequals]

This I Crazy to me reading this. as It's common sense. Anyone that has ever had a warrant knows they have it ,Blake was under arrest. he through officers aside and went to his car  too get a knife and got shot. ,with his kids in the car. The police had to stop him at all cost. It had nothing to do with him being black other that he felt emboldened to ignore the police by the media. It's common sense to obey orders of the police no matter what abc,nbc,cnn,cbs tells you. It's always been that way until a couple months ago.  And let not forget how this all started. A black man died in police custody. committing another felony passing fake money,  from 11 times the lethal dose of fentanyl  in his. system. the police holding him down did NOT kill him . Why do most everyone here feel a need to make something out of nothing? must be the internet. and I love also how some are centered on a 17 year old defending himself as being wrong. but neglect to care about the 47 or so other shots that were fired. Hell 5 shot went off towards the kid after he stood back up.  Did no one here those on the video?  I suspect the police saw the muzzle flashes and were more worried that  than the kid.  the rounds probably hit the police cars