Jacob Blake Video

[Zona]

9 hours ago, ajequals said:

This I Crazy to me reading this. as It's common sense. Anyone that has ever had a warrant knows they have it ,Blake was under arrest. he through officers aside and went to his car  too get a knife and got shot. ,with his kids in the car. The police had to stop him at all cost. It had nothing to do with him being black other that he felt emboldened to ignore the police by the media. It's common sense to obey orders of the police no matter what abc,nbc,cnn,cbs tells you. It's always been that way until a couple months ago.  And let not forget how this all started. A black man died in police custody. committing another felony passing fake money,  from 11 times the lethal dose of fentanyl  in his. system. the police holding him down did NOT kill him . Why do most everyone here feel a need to make something out of nothing? must be the internet. and I love also how some are centered on a 17 year old defending himself as being wrong. but neglect to care about the 47 or so other shots that were fired. Hell 5 shot went off towards the kid after he stood back up.  Did no one here those on the video?  I suspect the police saw the muzzle flashes and were more worried that  than the kid.  the rounds probably hit the police cars  

I Just told the salesperson for my local sports team that I will not be buying seasons tickets for next year because the league they play in is getting too involved in politics. I told them that it is not up to the league to pass judgement on the actions of police involved in a dangerous situation. Both the local DA and the feds can take care of it. We don't need you pinheads taking sides.

I'm sure he will be phoning the crap out of me trying to get me to change my mind. Probably have to block him.

[Tamfana]

14 minutes ago, Zona said:

I Just told the salesperson for my local sports team that I will not be buying seasons tickets for next year because the league they play in is getting too involved in politics. I told them that it is not up to the league to pass judgement on the actions of police involved in a dangerous situation. Both the local DA and the feds can take care of it. We don't need you pinheads taking sides.

I'm sure he will be phoning the crap out of me trying to get me to change my mind. Probably have to block him.

Anti-racists will buy them.  The teams will be fine. 

[Angelle]

1 hour ago, Zona said:

I Just told the salesperson for my local sports team that I will not be buying seasons tickets for next year because the league they play in is getting too involved in politics. I told them that it is not up to the league to pass judgement on the actions of police involved in a dangerous situation. Both the local DA and the feds can take care of it. We don't need you pinheads taking sides.

I'm sure he will be phoning the crap out of me trying to get me to change my mind. Probably have to block him.

So, you expect the players to put their personal feelings aside, but you won't?

[Piddy]

1 hour ago, Zona said:

I Just told the salesperson for my local sports team that I will not be buying seasons tickets for next year because the league they play in is getting too involved in politics. I told them that it is not up to the league to pass judgement on the actions of police involved in a dangerous situation. Both the local DA and the feds can take care of it. We don't need you pinheads taking sides.

I'm sure he will be phoning the crap out of me trying to get me to change my mind. Probably have to block him.

I'm happy the pro athletes are speaking out and demanding change.  There's a long list of former athletes going back to Muhammad Ali, Jim Brown, Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, John Carlos, Tommy Smith etc.. who spoke out against racial injustice.

Also, it was nice a awhile back to see Roger Goodell apologize and say that Colin Kaepernick was right.  

Nice to see the athletes put speaking up against racial injustice and not putting their personal economic finances ahead of speaking out.  None of this Republicans buy sneakers too crap. 🥴

As MLK said years ago.  "The moral arc of the universe is long, but it bends toward justice." 

 

Edited August 30, 2020 by Piddy

[major_merrick]

5 hours ago, Zona said:

I Just told the salesperson for my local sports team that I will not be buying seasons tickets for next year because the league they play in is getting too involved in politics. I told them that it is not up to the league to pass judgement on the actions of police involved in a dangerous situation. Both the local DA and the feds can take care of it. We don't need you pinheads taking sides.

I'm sure he will be phoning the crap out of me trying to get me to change my mind. Probably have to block him.

Congrats!  Vote with your dollar.  I never gave money to Big Athletics anyways because I have other objections to it.  But I believe that businesses that take a political position risk alienating people who would otherwise spend money there.  Whether it affects them or not remains to be seen....Hobby Lobby and Chick-fil-A are still doing fine even though I don't buy things there.  Free market is an interesting thing. 

4 hours ago, Piddy said:

As MLK said years ago.  "The moral arc of the universe is long, but it bends toward justice."

Hadn't heard that quote.  Kind of off-topic, but as a Christian minister, Dr. King should have remembered the concept of original sin.  The universe is broken, and as such it will bend towards injustice rather than justice.  The only thing that will change that is the end of all things. 

Which direction the arc is bending at the moment is where our perspectives differ.  I see things getting worse rather than better.  Not surprising, as we were told 2,000 years ago that chaos would increase.

[lana-banana]

"People shouldn't voice their opinions about what they consider to be a fundamental injustice" is a really weird stance to take if you think about it. How do people think change happens? Did we all wake up one morning and decide that women and minorities should vote, or that gay marriage should be legal? A lot depends on high-visibility people leveraging their platforms to start conversations and call for change.

[Zona]

9 hours ago, Tamfana said:

Anti-racists will buy them.  The teams will be fine. 

I'm as anti-racist as they come thank you very much. I also think that the political agenda being pushed by radical groups like BLM would bend our moral arc towards injustice as it has everywhere it has been tried. As the wise philosopher George Santayana once said, those who ignore history are condemned to repeat it.

Quote

Former New York Jets defensive lineman Michael Faulkner, now a pastor at a Harlem church, has similarly criticized the direction that violent protests have taken under BLM. “It infuriates me as a Black man, a father and as a minister that radicals are inciting or condoning riots in my name and in the name of our struggle,”

Using these situations to incite riots and spread fear for the purpose of getting people to the polls in November is what bugs me.

 

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Zona

[Zona]

8 hours ago, Angelle said:

So, you expect the players to put their personal feelings aside, but you won't?

They can do whatever they want, and I can spend my money wherever I want.

This sums up how I feel about pro sports getting involved in this mess:

Quote

Sportswriter Jason Whitlock recently criticized NBA star LeBron James for tweeting that he’s terrified of living in America. “I’m black. I’m not scared. I’m not terrified,” Whitlock wrote. “Neither is LeBron James. He’s lying. He and the political activists controlling him want black people to immerse themselves in fear. Fear is a tool used to control people. If you comply with police instructions, there is virtually no chance of an American citizen being harmed by police.” Whitlock has called BLM a “divisive, anti-religion, Marxist-influenced movement tearing apart America” that’s also seduced young athletes. “It’s tough to love pro athletes right now. They’ve joined a movement that violates all of sports’ traditional tenets,” he writes.

 

[Tamfana]

BLM isn't a radical group. They're protesting police brutality toward black people. That's good for everyone including taxpayers actually.  

Until this past weekend, every death associated with the protests since George Floyd killing has been caused by police and white supremacists shooting people.  

Not BLM. Not people supporting BLM or protesting police brutality.  

The person killed this past weekend was a member of a notorious white supremacist gang that's been marching in the PNW for years.  One of their leaders was arrested just a day or two ago for violating parole. They might have killed their own guy for all we know.  Gangs have internal battles too.  

White supremacists have been violent domestic terrorists for decades.  Many of the mass shooters and school shooters have been white supremacist- the killers in Kenosha, San Antonio, Dayton, Vegas, many more.  

Edited August 31, 2020 by Tamfana

[lana-banana]

Jason Whitlock's absurd pronouncements and horrible personality have cost him many a dream gig. He is of course free to have his opinion, as we all are, but he's been on the grievance train for years and seems more than a little envious of LeBron James. There is "virtually no chance" of being harmed by police if you comply? Somebody tell Charles Kinsey and Philando Castile, for starters.

90% of all extremist-ideology motivated murders in 2019 were right-wing extremists, including Proud Boy prospect and Qanon-crazy Buckey Wolfe. It's a serious concern, and the ties between white supremacist gangs and police departments is just as concerning. There's a reason cops are offering water bottles and "thanking" these guys with rifles: they think of them as allies. That should make everyone's blood run cold.

[beatcuff]

19 hours ago, Piddy said:

I'm happy the pro athletes are speaking out and demanding change <snip> Nice to see the athletes put speaking up against racial injustice and not putting their personal economic finances ahead of speaking out.  None of this Republicans buy sneakers too crap.

 

it is fine line between speaking up and saying 'this is wrong' and having constant political statements.  will they 'stop' playing EVERY TIME an incident occurs? they have to now otherwise they are not true to the cause.  what happens if these trials by social media posts (which could leave out the important information) create another Jessie or Tawana. 

what happens when they allow spectators?  this message is approved that is not.  BLM, easy but what about 'me too', climate change...

lastly if 30% +/- of persons stop watching and/or buying (tickets/merchandise) what do you think will happen?   think the owners will stand by with that cut?  

[Tamfana]

It's simpler than that. Athletes are bringing attention to racism and police brutality. 

Maybe if viewership drops 30% one day players will form their own league.  That'd be cool.  Teams owned by the players.  

We'll see what they choose to do over time. 

 

[Zona]

45 minutes ago, beatcuff said:

lastly if 30% +/- of persons stop watching and/or buying (tickets/merchandise) what do you think will happen?   

What will happen is these overpaid and pampered crybabies will have to get a real job like the rest of us.

[Tamfana]

pampered?  Okay, we see where you're coming from.  

Team owners need the players more than the players need them.  

ETA: You can extrapolate from this too. If Trump and the GOP retain control, LOTS of people who do understand striking and slow-downs will strike and slow-down without saying a word.  My business will never reopen if Trump wins. My contractors can find a job elsewhere.  Oh well. 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Tamfana

[Zona]

27 minutes ago, Tamfana said:

ETA: You can extrapolate from this too. If Trump and the GOP retain control, LOTS of people who do understand striking and slow-downs will strike and slow-down without saying a word.  

I doubt it, the Dems have pretty much abandoned organized labor, except for those who work in government unions and live off taxpayers. That's why Hillary lost Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. 

[Zona]

12 hours ago, Tamfana said:

BLM isn't a radical group. They're protesting police brutality toward black people. That's good for everyone including taxpayers actually.  

That and pushing a socialist agenda.

Their position on defunding police is radical enough all by itself.

 

[Tamfana]

I mean we will just shut down.  Go limp.  I'm certainly encouraging it.  Strike. Quit. Shrug.  

Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged lays out exactly how to quit and bring down a corrupt system.  Paul Ryan and the Freedom Caucus know all about it.  

That's what I will do.  That's what some of my friends are doing. Just waiting to see if Trump's reelected, or claims to be.  lol.

I won't participate in a corrupt system by working and send taxes to DC if you reelect Trump. I'll just officially retire.  Many will. Just giving you a heads up. 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Tamfana

[major_merrick]

4 hours ago, lana-banana said:

There's a reason cops are offering water bottles and "thanking" these guys with rifles: they think of them as allies. That should make everyone's blood run cold.

In most places, an alliance between cops and militia would be unusual.  Normally, cops are pretty anti-militia and either tell them to go home or arrest them.  

If cops are actually letting citizens get together and handle their own areas, I would take that as a GOOD thing.  

And if BLM is not acting like a bunch of terrorists, then I'd like to know who is really doing all the looting, burning, assaults, disturbing the peace, etc...   Because in the city near me, it wasn't white guys, cops, or Trump people who were doing vandalism, blocking traffic, and trying to set fire to the courthouse.  Pretty sure my eyes aren't lying to me.

Protests are great.  Freedom in action.  But when it gets out of hand and messes with my life or my property or that of my family/friends? That isn't a protest anymore.

[Weezy1973]

On 8/30/2020 at 10:36 AM, Zona said:

I Just told the salesperson for my local sports team that I will not be buying seasons tickets for next year because the league they play in is getting too involved in politics.

It’s clear from your posts, that it has nothing to do with them getting too involved in politics. It’s that you don’t support their stance. And yes, the league will be fine. Sports will go on. The majority of people support the players on this issue. And will gladly buy the tickets you’re giving up.

[d0nnivain]

2 hours ago, major_merrick said:

If cops are actually letting citizens get together and handle their own areas, I would take that as a GOOD thing.  

It's a terrible thing.  Gun toting crazies spoiling for a fight are not trained in de-escalation or community relations.  There's no grounds for an arrest or successful prosecution. They make everything worse.  If some 2nd amendment worshiping gun nut wants to stand on his or her own property & "defend" it fine but for them to go out hunting under the guise of helping is dangerous.   

It's also why I'm against stand your ground laws.  Common law self defense obligates the person asserting such a claim to affirmatively prove they didn't have an option to retreat.  The law mandates de-escalation not confrontation.  

[Piddy]

2 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

It's a terrible thing.  Gun toting crazies spoiling for a fight are not trained in de-escalation or community relations.  There's no grounds for an arrest or successful prosecution. They make everything worse.  If some 2nd amendment worshiping gun nut wants to stand on his or her own property & "defend" it fine but for them to go out hunting under the guise of helping is dangerous.   

It's also why I'm against stand your ground laws.  Common law self defense obligates the person asserting such a claim to affirmatively prove they didn't have an option to retreat.  The law mandates de-escalation not confrontation.  

I'm against stand your ground laws as well.  Or what I call them 'shoot first ask questions later' laws.  We have it in Florida.  They even strengthen the law here in Florida (2017) and put the onus on the prosecution, by shifting the burden of proof from the defense to the prosecution. 

Thanks to this change, defendants who claim to have killed out of fear for their lives needn’t provide supporting evidence that their perceptions of threat were reasonable. Rather, it is up to the prosecution to prove that a defendant was not reasonably in fear for his or her life.

If the prosecution can’t meet this burden to a judge’s satisfaction, the defendant walks free.

They even have a telephone number to call when you shoot someone telling you exactly what to say to the police.  It's absolutely crazy.  

Edited August 31, 2020 by Piddy

[Zona]

3 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

It’s clear from your posts, that it has nothing to do with them getting too involved in politics. It’s that you don’t support their stance. And yes, the league will be fine. Sports will go on. The majority of people support the players on this issue. And will gladly buy the tickets you’re giving up.

The NHL cancelled 2 games after the shooting of the guy who had a knife and brawled with the cops and then reached into his car while the cops were screaming their guts out at him. We now know it was his wife who called police because the guy was completely out of control and she was afraid for her safety. He wasn't breaking up a fight between 2 women like most of the media lied about, and they were trying to arrest him on a rape warrant for gods sake.

Like seriously? This incident hardly represents the kind of compelling case against police brutality one might build a mass movement around.

Maybe it's different in Canada, but here in America, hockey fans tend to be very patriotic and love their country. This will go over like a lead balloon. Same goes for the NFL and MLB. By cancelling the games after than incident, the league was clearly taking sides and jumping on board with the people who are stirring up trouble for political purposes.

Could be a case of get woke, go broke. We shall see.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Zona

[major_merrick]

4 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

It's a terrible thing.  Gun toting crazies spoiling for a fight are not trained in de-escalation or community relations.  There's no grounds for an arrest or successful prosecution. They make everything worse.  If some 2nd amendment worshiping gun nut wants to stand on his or her own property & "defend" it fine but for them to go out hunting under the guise of helping is dangerous.  

I can't speak for other areas, but it is working quite well where I live.  The county defense force has kept troublemakers and COVID out, keeping our area safe for those who live here and have legit business.  Of course, I think what makes it a success is that it has been mostly proactive and fairly well trained and has the popular support of the residents of our county.   We were mostly ready before this year's events. 

The militia activity in Kenosha seems to be very reactive and "ad hoc" and that's a lot tougher to control.  There's also the issue of "consent of the governed."  Not sure if those militias have the consent of the folks they claim to serve.  But often, doing something is preferable to doing nothing and letting things burn.  Practically speaking, it is terrible tactics for homeowners to face off on their own property against a mob.  A mob is basically a human wave attack, so the only defense is similar numbers or superior firepower.  Better to have an armed group establish a perimeter farther out to proactively do access control and say "Not this neighborhood...y'all can go to the next one." 

https://www.kusi.com/kenosha-mattress-store-owner-on-business-being-burnt-down-and-friend-attacked/

https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/local/watch-now-car-source-owner-everybody-watched-it-burn-to-ashes/article_23d076ae-2439-5fa7-8288-b8393c1af518.html

https://nypost.com/2020/08/26/kenosha-store-owner-in-tears-as-she-sees-business-burnt-to-ground/

^^^^^  THESE are examples of what happens when people don't have good tactics and a solid defense.  Trying to keep the rioters away with just a couple of people and minimal weapons yields failure.  And people wonder why militias are showing up....

2 hours ago, Piddy said:

Thanks to this change, defendants who claim to have killed out of fear for their lives needn’t provide supporting evidence that their perceptions of threat were reasonable. Rather, it is up to the prosecution to prove that a defendant was not reasonably in fear for his or her life.

If the prosecution can’t meet this burden to a judge’s satisfaction, the defendant walks free.

That's kind of how our system is SUPPOSED to work.  Innocent until proven guilty, and must be guilty beyond any reasonable doubt.  And it isn't the judge the prosecutors have to convince, it is a jury.  We don't live in Napoleonic France or the USSR!  I won't go further, since that isn't really the point of this thread.

[mark clemson]

^^ while you certainly have a point about our justice system, it seems like the way it stands right now in FL is that if there were no witnesses around I could simply shoot someone and claim they were harassing me, etc. Just insult them, and get into a bit of a shouting match, then pull your gun and shoot. Forensics might think your story is plausible as well. Kind of makes it too easy to simply murder someone, if one intended to do that, IMO.

[Piddy]

1 hour ago, major_merrick said:

I can't speak for other areas, but it is working quite well where I live.  The county defense force has kept troublemakers and COVID out, keeping our area safe for those who live here and have legit business.  Of course, I think what makes it a success is that it has been mostly proactive and fairly well trained and has the popular support of the residents of our county.   We were mostly ready before this year's events. 

The militia activity in Kenosha seems to be very reactive and "ad hoc" and that's a lot tougher to control.  There's also the issue of "consent of the governed."  Not sure if those militias have the consent of the folks they claim to serve.  But often, doing something is preferable to doing nothing and letting things burn.  Practically speaking, it is terrible tactics for homeowners to face off on their own property against a mob.  A mob is basically a human wave attack, so the only defense is similar numbers or superior firepower.  Better to have an armed group establish a perimeter farther out to proactively do access control and say "Not this neighborhood...y'all can go to the next one." 

https://www.kusi.com/kenosha-mattress-store-owner-on-business-being-burnt-down-and-friend-attacked/

https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/local/watch-now-car-source-owner-everybody-watched-it-burn-to-ashes/article_23d076ae-2439-5fa7-8288-b8393c1af518.html

https://nypost.com/2020/08/26/kenosha-store-owner-in-tears-as-she-sees-business-burnt-to-ground/

^^^^^  THESE are examples of what happens when people don't have good tactics and a solid defense.  Trying to keep the rioters away with just a couple of people and minimal weapons yields failure.  And people wonder why militias are showing up....

That's kind of how our system is SUPPOSED to work.  Innocent until proven guilty, and must be guilty beyond any reasonable doubt.  And it isn't the judge the prosecutors have to convince, it is a jury.  We don't live in Napoleonic France or the USSR!  I won't go further, since that isn't really the point of this thread.

The problem with this ridiculous law is it encourages the use of deadly force, whether justified or not.

We have a case now where a husband and wife were at the movies.  The husband was on the phone with the babysitter.

The guy sitting behind him kept telling him to get off his phone.  The movie hadn't even started yet.

An argument ensued and the husband thru his popcorn at the guy.  The guy pulled out his gun and shot and killed the husband and injured his wife.

I told my wife to not get into an argument with anyone.  Because of this stupid law someone can kill you and they'll only be one story, because you'll be dead.

No, it's a dumbass law that was sold on false pretences.

You always had the right to self defense.  But this law encourages someone to escalate a situation knowing they can kill someone and get away with it.

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Piddy