How are schools still staying open?

[introverted1]

22 hours ago, QuietRiot said:

NO masks? Well, at least here in Florida the schools are packed, but...they are at least wearing the masks and have plastic shields installed on desks.

I'm in Florida and schools are absolutely NOT packed.  Most districts are providing some form of online education, which they seem clueless about how to implement in a meaningful way, but that's what you'd expect from a system that is grounded in methodologies from the 1800s and has nothing to do with covid directly.

[QuietRiot]

Just now, introverted1 said:

I'm in Florida and schools are absolutely NOT packed.  Most districts are providing some form of online education, which they seem clueless about how to implement in a meaningful way, but that's what you'd expect from a system that is grounded in methodologies from the 1800s and has nothing to do with covid directly.

Well you may have to eat your words...Jeri Ryan retweeted a Florida high school Jacksonville football game crowd, crowding the stands.

 

[introverted1]

That's actually Baker County, not Jacksonville, and it was definitely not smart, even though Baker has had very few cases of covid. 

That doesn't negate the fact that, of Florida's 67 counties, many (and including the biggest ones) are not holding classes in person.

 

ETA:  interesting that none of the tweeters bothered to check where Baker High School is located.  Couldn't possibly be because the news value of a high school in Jacksonville (which people have heard of) is higher than one in Baker County.

Edited September 6, 2020 by introverted1

[QuietRiot]

3 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

That's actually Baker County, not Jacksonville, and it was definitely not smart, even though Baker has had very few cases of covid. 

That doesn't negate the fact that, of Florida's 67 counties, many (and including the biggest ones) are not holding classes in person.

Actually, I thought it was a mixed bag. Yes?

Are there some schools in Florida that are holding classes 100% online, and with empty school rooms?

I thought that stats in Florida on in-person class room attendance was a third of the full amount? There are cases happening, but they are just quarantining people, come back after 2 weeks, and then back to the grind....but not closing things down..not even temporarily for some reason.

Edited September 6, 2020 by QuietRiot

[introverted1]

3 minutes ago, QuietRiot said:

Actually, I thought it was a mixed bag. Yes?

Are there some schools in Florida that are holding classes 100% online, and with empty school rooms?

I thought that stats in Florida on in-person class room attendance was a third of the full amount? There are cases happening, but they are just quarantining people, come back after 2 weeks, and then back to the grind....but not closing things down..not even temporarily for some reason.

It's a mixed bag and a mess.  But the biggest districts - Palm Beach, Broward, and Miami-Dade -- are providing remote classes only, along with many others. 

And the reasons schools are being pressured to open are not exclusively political:  there are many parents who want to access the free daycare school provides. Some parents need this in order that they themselves can go to work, and others simply don't have the patience to be monitoring their child's online education for 7 hours a day.  District requirements for parent engagement and student requirements vary considerably and none of it is as easy as putting your kids on the bus.

[elaine567]

Getting schools back is nothing to do with education, it is so that the workers can get back to work and fuel the economy.
 

[CaliforniaGirl]

On 9/6/2020 at 8:53 AM, introverted1 said:

It's a mixed bag and a mess.  But the biggest districts - Palm Beach, Broward, and Miami-Dade -- are providing remote classes only, along with many others. 

And the reasons schools are being pressured to open are not exclusively political:  there are many parents who want to access the free daycare school provides. Some parents need this in order that they themselves can go to work, and others simply don't have the patience to be monitoring their child's online education for 7 hours a day.  District requirements for parent engagement and student requirements vary considerably and none of it is as easy as putting your kids on the bus.

This is a little harsh. School is not "free daycare," it's an institution that's been in place in a large-scale way for a century. People expect it to be there because duh. And it's not about parents not having "patience." Comparatively few parents are teachers and if they're not then there's a reason. We want qualified, educated individuals teaching our children...not somebody's mom who is an awesome realtor but has zero education in teaching and in whatever the hell Common Core is.

In addition, many parents are working from home. You know, to keep feeding their families. Those lazy bitches not easily being able to add 7 hours of frustrated underqualified teaching to 8 hours of work.

How much more insulting to teachers can you get basically saying they're babysitters and literally anybody except some lazy person is qualified to do their job? And how much more insulting to parents trying like hell to make a really, really weird world work, somehow?

And what about socialization for kids? How did you grow up? Huddled in your room watching your teacher and a few of your friends' floating heads talking from a box? I'm guessing: not. 

There is really just a bit more to attending school than a bunch of babysitters teaching whatever any non-teacher parent knows.

Edited September 8, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[introverted1]

Are you a teacher, CG? Seems I struck a nerve.

For the record, I was just sharing why there has been pressure to open schools and why the reasons go beyond politics.  In the newspapers here, there have indeed been stories written about pressure from parents to have schools open for a variety of reasons, including the need for day care.  I'm not sure why this is surprising - you have only to look at the US's sinking rankings of educational achievement against other countries to see that schools are not succeeding at their primary mission of educating students.

Also for the record, lots of families in the US homeschool, a method that's been in place for centuries, and the data shows that homeschooled kids are at least one grade level ahead of their public school peers on average.  Yes, an awesome realtor can also be an awesome homeschool teacher.  As for socialization, it's true that the pandemic has crimped everyone's socialising (including school kids'), but in normal times, a lack of socialization among homeschooled kids is a myth. 

Edited September 8, 2020 by introverted1

[elaine567]

1 hour ago, introverted1 said:

In the newspapers here, there have indeed been stories written about pressure from parents to have schools open for a variety of reasons, including the need for day care.

Agreed.
Plenty parents moaning about the schools not being open and it has little to do with the education or socialisation of their kids.
One guy in particular comes to mind, he said he and his wife both work full time and he was whining not only about the schools, but about the lack of a breakfast club, and an after school club and how the grandparents and other sundry folk he was used to recruiting were not available to look after HIS kids as they were shielding/staying safe...

[CaliforniaGirl]

4 hours ago, introverted1 said:

Are you a teacher, CG? Seems I struck a nerve.

For the record, I was just sharing why there has been pressure to open schools and why the reasons go beyond politics.  In the newspapers here, there have indeed been stories written about pressure from parents to have schools open for a variety of reasons, including the need for day care.  I'm not sure why this is surprising - you have only to look at the US's sinking rankings of educational achievement against other countries to see that schools are not succeeding at their primary mission of educating students.

Also for the record, lots of families in the US homeschool, a method that's been in place for centuries, and the data shows that homeschooled kids are at least one grade level ahead of their public school peers on average.  Yes, an awesome realtor can also be an awesome homeschool teacher.  As for socialization, it's true that the pandemic has crimped everyone's socialising (including school kids'), but in normal times, a lack of socialization among homeschooled kids is a myth. 

I am not a teacher. Are you a parent?

Homeschooled kids are set up already to be homeschooled, by choice and ability of the parents. They have not been thrown into it.

Where is that data about the education levels? I'm interested to see how that was determined.

Homeschooling "for centuries," plural, was pretty inconsistent, might consist of basic literacy and basic arithmetic (for those who hoped to go into business) and was no means universal/all/most families. Illiteracy rates were very high comparatively for a very long time.

How do you support your assertion that teachers are just babysitters? If your teachers were, then perhaps you were in an at-risk population. However, this is not the case for everyone. Are you able to sit down right now and teach your child physics and calculus? Many parents aren't and I haven't really heard of any babysitters who hang out and do this. 

Can you support your assertion that parents who are struggling with this, having been thrown into it, are struggling simply because they don't have patience?

Are you currently working either in or out of the home, plus manning your child's distance learning? Can you give us tips on how you smoothly manage both? Parents across the U.S. could use your help.

I am for distance learning for current health reasons, but hearing this attitude about teachers and the attitude about all the apparently lazy parents is a bit grating.

 

[CaliforniaGirl]

4 hours ago, introverted1 said:

Are you a teacher, CG? Seems I struck a nerve.

For the record, I was just sharing why there has been pressure to open schools and why the reasons go beyond politics.  In the newspapers here, there have indeed been stories written about pressure from parents to have schools open for a variety of reasons, including the need for day care.  I'm not sure why this is surprising - you have only to look at the US's sinking rankings of educational achievement against other countries to see that schools are not succeeding at their primary mission of educating students.

Also for the record, lots of families in the US homeschool, a method that's been in place for centuries, and the data shows that homeschooled kids are at least one grade level ahead of their public school peers on average.  Yes, an awesome realtor can also be an awesome homeschool teacher.  As for socialization, it's true that the pandemic has crimped everyone's socialising (including school kids'), but in normal times, a lack of socialization among homeschooled kids is a myth. 

Whoops, wasn't able to edit. As an aside: re - "striking a nerve," it is you who snarked right out of the gate with the sideways comments about the apparent incompetence of both teachers and parents. So a question more to the point would be: what's triggering you about the subject? Something is.

[introverted1]

CG, I am not sure what you are reacting to, as I have never asserted that teachers are babysitters, only that some parents want schools open because they need the free daycare.

As for the rest, I had (and have) no intention of arguing about the state of public education in the US here.  Much has been written about this and I didn't realise I was sharing something new when I referenced declining scores against other countries. The data for my actual assertions is easily googled.

Peace.

[CaliforniaGirl]

27 minutes ago, introverted1 said:

CG, I am not sure what you are reacting to, as I have never asserted that teachers are babysitters, only that some parents want schools open because they need the free daycare.

As for the rest, I had (and have) no intention of arguing about the state of public education in the US here.  Much has been written about this and I didn't realise I was sharing something new when I referenced declining scores against other countries. The data for my actual assertions is easily googled.

Peace.

Oh. Daycare workers...not babysitters? I did not see the distinction. Actually, I still don't but I'll take your word for it.  

As for "free" daycare, again...you can't possibly be a parent. 

1. Most parents don't only work a 5-hour day or so. This means they pay for daycare already, after and sometimes before school.

2. Parents pay for daycare on all minimum days for students. My children get at least one of these a month, but one of my kids has a school setup (non-Covid times) of one minimum day per week. (Wednesday.) Schools are able to do minimum v. half-days and have school count if X amount of hours in the school are given, so these can be fairly frequent in some districts. Obviously, the parents are paying for daycare on those days (in addition to after-school daycare they'd already be paying for).

3. Our Thanksgiving holiday is full days, the entire week. Our winter holiday break is two weeks. Our spring break is two weeks. AFAIK, this is fairly standard.

4. Parents who don't have cooperative extended family just hanging out and not working themselves have to lose the day's pay (if non-salaried) any time the child is sick or has a doctor's appointment that must take place during the day. 

5. Parents pay for 9 weeks full-time daycare in the summer.

6. Parents who go back to work when the child is very young (or who work more or less straight through) will pay for full-time daycare until the child is in school, which could be between age nearly 5 and age nearly 7 (more children are starting at age 6). Even then, some kindergartens are part-time (while the parent's hours definitely may not be). This many years of is quite a long time to pay, and hold out for that "free" daycare that will eventually be coming (part-time and not on holidays, sick days, or half-days or during the summer).

There will still be more money coming in than going out - otherwise, a large percentage of formerly working parents would just quit (which does happen) - and another much smaller percentage of parents will want to continue to work because they feel their work is important in a larger way or because their careers can't withstand an 18-year gap (if only one child is in the house, longer if not) in their career. But as for "free daycare," sure...a little...I guess? It's far from free and it's far from every day.

Just some info about parenting, public school, daycare and so on to clarify.

As for me googling, you know the drill. You made the assertion. Yes, I know as a whole kids' scores in public school are declining. Public school represents a huge range of kids including learning disabled children  (I don't say that flippantly - one of my sons is intellectually handicapped and will receive a certificate of completion, rather than a diploma because his classes, though he's very serious and motivated, average a 2nd to 3.5-grade level - he's 17), children who don't have consistent sources of healthy food or of medical care, children whose parents do not value education either way and don't do much encouraging, children in abusive home situations, and economically at-risk children. None of these except for some of us, learning disabled children (we parents tend to be very motivated) lend themselves to a potentially winning homeschool environment, which eliminates that percentage of kids who would be scoring low either way for those reasons and others but who almost definitely are not homeschooled. That doesn't mean public school in general sucks for kids. It should be pretty obvious that with such a large range and such a large total amount, you're going to get a very large range of scores including very low ones.

Edited September 8, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[Azincourt]

On 8/28/2020 at 10:37 AM, QuietRiot said:

In Florida, even though there are reports of Covid 19 outbreaks since schools started....they only talk about how they are just quarantining the kids, teachers, and staff at home for 14 days, but...no talks of actually closing the schools altogether. Like at UNC (though, it's a University, not a K-12 school)

What is their system? Infected quarantine for 14 days, then...come back to in-person environment? I mean, I figured I'd start seeing headlines now saying, "SCHOOLS CLOSED DUE TO VIRUS!" all over, but...only reports of infections.

I just see a serious lack of consistency when it comes to controlling the virus.

Because they don't want to appear weak to the opposition and don't want to lose their spot as the top dogs in the govt. when elections season come again.

It's the same thing in every state and foreign Country, and the way they go about it is flawed but hey man they're lawyers so they know best!

Edited September 8, 2020 by Azincourt

[CaliforniaGirl]

3 minutes ago, Azincourt said:

Because they don't want to appear weak to the opposition and don't want to lose their spot as the top dogs in the govt. when elections season come again.

I too* (edit from "to"...I mean, speaking of education, LOL) believe this is the motivating factor.

I'll be honest (as a parent - not in Florida, though), the idea of having the schools open but just coming to a screeching halt with a positive case and closing for two weeks...then opening again...maybe closing again but you can never know when...is bound to just be a giant s-show. I can't even imagine this won't wreak havoc on students, parents, teachers and overall consistency.

I don't know, Florida. I mean maybe it will all work out...? To me (and I'm not the only one), gambling my kids' present education and their future as self-sustaining adults, and their present as far as getting back to some sort of normalcy, isn't a hill to die on just so my guy can get elected.

I honestly think that's abhorrent. Then again, I am making his assumption. That may not be all that went into this decision. But...it's suspiciously coincidental if not.

These are OUR kids. How can we gamble with their future?

I just...can't even.

Edited September 8, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[CaliforniaGirl]

7 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Agreed.
Plenty parents moaning about the schools not being open and it has little to do with the education or socialisation of their kids.
One guy in particular comes to mind, he said he and his wife both work full time and he was whining not only about the schools, but about the lack of a breakfast club, and an after school club and how the grandparents and other sundry folk he was used to recruiting were not available to look after HIS kids as they were shielding/staying safe...

I'm moaning and it IS because of socialization. 

I don't go to any clubs and have always been here for my kids.

Do you really think most parents are like your friend? We're all just running around to our clubs all the time and what a bore it is, now that we can't do it? Not sure what world you live in. Gated community at the very least?

For health reasons I am fully on board with distance learning and if anyone is set up for it, I am. But it is hard for my kids. And yes, that partly includes the fun. No homecoming, no prom, no extracurricular sports (or attending them just to watch), it is not just some giant selfish thing on the part of parents.

I do not understand why parents are getting so much sh*t for this...like we're the biggest jerks in the world. Are you a parent? Is your child doing okay with all this and are you? Do you wish you could go to work and/or have schools open because you want to dump your kid on a school? Where, besides your one friend, are you getting the idea that we parents are lying - oh yeah, moaning (adorable judgment there) - when we say the social aspect was a big part of life for our kids?

Parents really can never get it right...in the eyes of others. WTF?

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by CaliforniaGirl

[basil67]

On 9/7/2020 at 1:57 AM, elaine567 said:

Getting schools back is nothing to do with education, it is so that the workers can get back to work and fuel the economy.
 

I would have thought that your teaches have been fully employed giving remote lessons to classes.   Is this not the case?

While in lockdown, our teachers were working far more hours than usual while delivering remote lessons vs face to face.   Particularly converting lesson delivery and individually answering each emailed question vs 'hand up' in the classroom where all students could hear the answer. 

Edited September 8, 2020 by basil67

[CaliforniaGirl]

5 minutes ago, basil67 said:

I would have thought that your teaches have been fully employed giving remote lessons to classes.   Is this not the case?

While in lockdown, our teachers were working far more hours than usual while delivering remote lessons vs face to face.   Particularly converting lesson delivery and individually answering each emailed question vs 'hand up' in the classroom where all students could hear the answer. 

Yes. Distance learning = the teachers are still the ones giving the lessons (in public school).

Then after - for our district, at least - they have to have distance office hours for kids' questions and help. When not technically in school they must be making lesson plans since - again, for my kids - the lessons are on point as each class has been described while taking into account tech glitches and so on.

[Ruby Slippers]

My friends with kids are doing it all online and tell me the startup phase is mostly about resolving technical issues and getting everyone connected properly. One friend is sending her kids to a limited-size daycare some of the time so they can focus on work. 

I'm about to start virtual volunteer tutoring a 15-year-old kid for college prep and essay writing for college applications, through an organization that's working to connect kids who need extra educational support with us volunteers who want to help. 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Ruby Slippers

[basil67]

3 minutes ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Yes. Distance learning = the teachers are still the ones giving the lessons (in public school).

Then after - for our district, at least - they have to have distance office hours for kids' questions and help. When not technically in school they must be making lesson plans since - again, for my kids - the lessons are on point as each class has been described while taking into account tech glitches and so on.

Ah, so it's not about teachers going back....it's about getting the parents back to work.   Got it.

[QuietRiot]

5 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Ah, so it's not about teachers going back....it's about getting the parents back to work.   Got it.

Pick your poison.

[basil67]

43 minutes ago, QuietRiot said:

Pick your poison.

I meant in respect to people working and therefore supporting the economy.   I had misunderstood what Elaine wrote and thought that they were needing the teachers to start working again.

[OatsAndHall]

On 9/5/2020 at 5:40 PM, QuietRiot said:

Oh okay, so just like anywhere else, it's only a mandate and masks are optional. 😛

 

Yup.. I have heard it all:

"It's just a mandate!"

"Mandates are suggestions!"

"The governor can't mandate anything!"

 

It's not a comfortable feeling sitting in a room with 20+ kids in the midst of a pandemic and two of them are wearing masks.  We've told the superintendent that we're not comfortable teaching without the kids wearing masks but that request fell on deaf ears. So... I plan on taking full advantage of the free COVID leave. If I have symptoms, I will be staying home and getting tested. If I get COVID, I'll obviously be out for my full ten days and, if I feel ill at all after those ten days, I will be using my AFLAC short term disability to collect a paycheck along with using my PTO. 

Edited September 18, 2020 by OatsAndHall