Changed his mind about having children?

[CaliforniaGirl]

1 hour ago, BaileyB said:

I would also wait to make my decision too.

After his second child was born, my brother went to the doctor to ask for a vasectomy. Doc said “are you sure?” My brother said, absolutely. 

Well, let’s just say that a few years, and another surgery costing a few thousand dollars later... I have the most adorable three year old niece! It turns out, he changed his mind. His wife was done, but he changed his mind... and the rest is history. None of us can imagine life without this little sweetheart now. Our family simply was not complete until she arrived. 

I respect the decision not to have children. But, you simply can’t always know in your twenties what you will want for your life in your thirties and forties... I know people who married partners who did not want children and changed their mind (and divorced). I know people who were adamant that they never wanted to be a parent, and changed their mind only to have two children, a dog, and a minivan. As someone who doesn’t have children, I will say that you miss out on so much. You don’t think you will, because when you are young you assume that your friendships will always be close and the world is full of adventure. But, your friends who were once such a big part of your life are now not available because they are enjoying their families. Or better yet, you get together but all they talk about are diapers, preschool, their children’s sport, etc... You will find, you have little in common. Your parents will die, and the life that you once knew will be no more. Again, maybe that’s ok with you and you plan to travel the world and grow old with your partner. But, I would suggest that you leave your options open because you just don’t know what you don’t know at this age...

I was 1000% sure my son would be my only child. Seriously. The idea of another child just didn't compute. My parenting life was complete. Once or twice I remember wondering why anyone ever had a second child. I thought, why? Just to have "more" people? My son was his own person and just making more to fill up the dinner table seemed really strange to me.

I met my husband when my son was 16. My husband had never had children.

He and I had two. 😂

[Dork Vader]

For better or worse people do change as they get older. It's easy to say you don't want kids when you're young. You can often be busy building a career, have goals you are set on achieving and so many other distractions. When things settle down, people can change their minds and it can happen for different reasons. There are other things that can contribute to that as well, seeing friends and other family members have kids it can lead to the thoughts of that seems like something I want. When they get older they can also start to feel the pressure of I have to decide if this is something I want or not as biological clocks start ticking (even for men). 

He has not betrayed you in anyway. Betrayal would be cheating or something along those lines, which he has not done. Changing ones opinions or views on what they want out of life is anything but betrayal. You will change your views on certain things as well. 

This is just something the two of you will have to discuss. I don't know your age but if you're in your 30's it's something he's going to need to make a decision on in the near future. I would not pressure him on the topic. You would not like if he did that to you. I also would not try to convince him to not have children either, you won't change is mind for long if its something he really wants. 

If you're dead set on not having any children and he decides its something he wants. Then it's probably best you both go your separate ways life. That is a huge difference. There is nothing wrong with that, you just want different things from life and that's okay.

[Wiseman2]

On 8/28/2020 at 9:03 PM, Lucy256 said:

He’s 30 and I’m 27 

So you were 26 and 23 when you got together. How long have you owned the house together? 

Don't do anything permanent for fleeting thoughts. Just as you don't want kids, he can ponder the whole kids question as well.

He didn't betray you. You'll need to get to the bottom of this with your mother.

It's up to you to decide if you want to sell the house, split everything up and so on.

He doesn't seem as committed to the relationship as you are.

[Lucy256]

20 hours ago, lana-banana said:

Kids are unfortunately one of the very few, no-compromise, absolute deal-breakers in a relationship. I would say the best bet is to reiterate where you are and explain that if he decides he wants kids, then they won't be with you. Maybe give him a little time to think more about it, since those are the kinds of things you don't resolve overnight, but be firm. 

And good luck with your tubal ligation! I've been wanting it myself, although I'd prefer a bilat salpingectomy (supposedly more effective than a tubal ligation). Please let me know how it goes, and best of luck regardless. You sound very self-assured and in control---you're on the way to happiness no matter what.

This is such sensible advice. I agree. It is a make or break issue. I’m looking into bilat salpingectomy as well! Apparently it also reduces the chances of ovarian cancer (which my Mum had), so it could be a better option. 
 

Thanks so much for your response, such a nice validating message! I know what I want from my life, sounds like you do too. 

[Lucy256]

14 hours ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

Well, you don't know that he's changed his mind. He bandied the idea around. And he wasn't even the one who brought it up.

Don't jump to break up with him. That seems unreasonable to me. Toss it all away? Because of one stray thought he considered?

You sure you really want to spend the rest of your life with this guy? That you're not the one having second thoughts? 

I don’t want to break up with him, he’s a really special person and an amazing partner. I would love to share my life with him. If I wasn’t sure of that, I just wouldn’t be with him. 

I’m making sure that he knows if we do spend our lives together, it will be with no children. Perhaps (hopefully), you are right and he said it in a more offhanded and abstract way than I took it. But definitely something I need to get to the bottom of with him. Lots of varied opinions on here! Which is great, good to get different perspectives. Thanks for your reply! 

[Wiseman2]

He could leave you either way. Whatever procedures you have or not.

For example he could leave if he wants kids. He could leave if he doesn't want kids.

It seems like this discussion your mother brought up again is uncovering some communication issues with your bf.

[Lucy256]

4 hours ago, Dork Vader said:

For better or worse people do change as they get older. It's easy to say you don't want kids when you're young. You can often be busy building a career, have goals you are set on achieving and so many other distractions. When things settle down, people can change their minds and it can happen for different reasons. There are other things that can contribute to that as well, seeing friends and other family members have kids it can lead to the thoughts of that seems like something I want. When they get older they can also start to feel the pressure of I have to decide if this is something I want or not as biological clocks start ticking (even for men). 

He has not betrayed you in anyway. Betrayal would be cheating or something along those lines, which he has not done. Changing ones opinions or views on what they want out of life is anything but betrayal. You will change your views on certain things as well. 

This is just something the two of you will have to discuss. I don't know your age but if you're in your 30's it's something he's going to need to make a decision on in the near future. I would not pressure him on the topic. You would not like if he did that to you. I also would not try to convince him to not have children either, you won't change is mind for long if its something he really wants. 

If you're dead set on not having any children and he decides its something he wants. Then it's probably best you both go your separate ways life. That is a huge difference. There is nothing wrong with that, you just want different things from life and that's okay.

You’re right, he hasn’t betrayed me, that was a poor choice of words. It’s his right to change his mind on this, and I respect that. It can be hard as a woman who doesn’t want kids because there are often negative reactions to it, and finding someone who also wasn’t interested in children was really important. So I guess I just felt a bit blindsided.
 

I do think you are right that if he truly thinks children are something he needs in his life, going our seperate ways would be the best decision. Hard to think about though  

[Lucy256]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

So you were 26 and 23 when you got together. How long have you owned the house together? 

Don't do anything permanent for fleeting thoughts. Just as you don't want kids, he can ponder the whole kids question as well.

He didn't betray you. You'll need to get to the bottom of this with your mother.

It's up to you to decide if you want to sell the house, split everything up and so on.

He doesn't seem as committed to the relationship as you are.

We’ve owned the house together for just over two years. I agree he didn’t betray me, that was silly phrasing. I meant more that I felt blindsided. 
 

There isn’t really anything to get to the bottom of with my Mum. I’m an only child, so my Mum won’t be a Grandma, which I think is slightly disappointing for her. That’s fine, I understand that, but she does fully support my decision to do as I please with my life. We’ve spoken about it plenty. 
 

Sound advice, and I’m not going to suddenly break up with him tomorrow, I’m just looking for some perspectives on how to approach it. Not pulling any plugs over one conversation! 

[lana-banana]

2 hours ago, Lucy256 said:

This is such sensible advice. I agree. It is a make or break issue. I’m looking into bilat salpingectomy as well! Apparently it also reduces the chances of ovarian cancer (which my Mum had), so it could be a better option. 
 

Thanks so much for your response, such a nice validating message! I know what I want from my life, sounds like you do too. 

If your relationship is very solid otherwise, and it sounds like it is, a counseling approach could help. There's an organization called Decision Cafe (and an accompanying book, The Baby Decision) that helps couples on the fence evaluate whether they want kids or to make a conscious choice to be childfree. You can also look for support groups or personal counselors in your area. 

Yeah, your feelings may change - when I was a kid I always thought I wanted to be a mom. By the time I was 25 and having some lady-related health problems, I wasn't so sure. But once those had resolved I was really leaning no, and by 31 I was at "absolutely not". My husband was "ambivalent, leaning no", but when I made it clear that I was in the hard no category his response was "I'd much rather be with you than have kids with someone else." But the thing is there's no right or wrong answer to this question. If someone decides that they want kids more than they want to be with someone, that's valid too, even if it hurts. You haven't done anything wrong here and neither has your partner. In a way, the child decision is kind of spiritual; your relationship to it, and what it says about you, evolves over time. He will probably not come to a decision right away. It could take weeks, maybe even a few months. You are lucky in that you are very clear on what you want. If you were both reasonably unsure this could be a much tougher situation.

Last night we were getting a little hot and heavy and my husband asked me a sexy question. But the door was slightly open and one of our kittens bounded in and jumped on my chest. We both bust out laughing and my husband said "I love our life so much," and that made me happier than I could express. Loving life is the goal, not doing something you think you ought or need to do. No matter how this ends up, I can tell you will eventually end up in a place where you feel you love your life, because you know yourself well enough to not compromise on your needs.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

Funny story sorta on topic, sorta not. (Also sorta not funny at all)

My daughter is 19 1/2 and has a serious boyfriend a week younger than she is.  Since she was a little girl she has said she does not want kids.  I respect that and unless she changes some things about her patience tolerance as it relates to children (and misbehaving dogs), I think it's a good thing lol.  Last week she said something to me like, "Boyfriend was upset the other day and wouldn't say why and he finally told me he'd been having some "issues" so he saw a doctor and found out he most likely won't be able to father children."  I was like, "What issues?? That sounds weird for a 19 year old male to know already....he's never had chemo has he?"  He certainly has never had a reason to have a semen analysis!  She said he wouldn't say any more and she didn't press it.  I reminded her that this was not a reason to go off birth control and then I of course retreated to my home office and consulted Dr. Google.  What I came up with that makes the most sense is retrograde ejaculation so I will NOT be pursuing this line of conversation any more at this juncture.  Fingers in ears.....lalalalalala!  

[CaliforniaGirl]

5 hours ago, Lucy256 said:

I don’t want to break up with him, he’s a really special person and an amazing partner. I would love to share my life with him. If I wasn’t sure of that, I just wouldn’t be with him. 

I’m making sure that he knows if we do spend our lives together, it will be with no children. Perhaps (hopefully), you are right and he said it in a more offhanded and abstract way than I took it. But definitely something I need to get to the bottom of with him. Lots of varied opinions on here! Which is great, good to get different perspectives. Thanks for your reply! 

You're welcome. Just have the talk. See what he says. It may have been a fleeting thing.

[CaliforniaGirl]

4 hours ago, Lucy256 said:

We’ve owned the house together for just over two years. I agree he didn’t betray me, that was silly phrasing. I meant more that I felt blindsided. 
 

There isn’t really anything to get to the bottom of with my Mum. I’m an only child, so my Mum won’t be a Grandma, which I think is slightly disappointing for her. That’s fine, I understand that, but she does fully support my decision to do as I please with my life. We’ve spoken about it plenty. 
 

Sound advice, and I’m not going to suddenly break up with him tomorrow, I’m just looking for some perspectives on how to approach it. Not pulling any plugs over one conversation! 

My oldest son is CBC and I've never once asked him to go produce a grandchild for me to hold once in a while. I think that's nuts. If I'm dying to hold a baby later and none of my kids becomes a parent I'll go volunteer at a hospital nursery or something. I can not imagine needling someone to make a lifelong, continuously emotionally invested, frankly expensive, and occasionally extremely difficult commitment based on what "I wanted." I mean jesus.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

1 minute ago, CaliforniaGirl said:

My oldest son is CBC and I've never once asked him to go produce a grandchild for me to hold once in a while. I think that's nuts. If I'm dying to hold a baby later and none of my kids becomes a parent I'll go volunteer at a hospital nursery or something. I can not imagine needling someone to make a lifelong, continuously emotionally invested, frankly expensive, and occasionally extremely difficult commitment based on what "I wanted." I mean jesus.

Agree.  (And I don't think OP's mom is this way, for the record).  

I have a lot of friends with kids who want kids, so even if neither of my kids give me a grandchild I will have plenty of options from which to choose to get my grandma on! 

[princessaurora]

Like others have said, in your 20's, the views and plans you have for your future may be very different 5-10 years down the line. One of my coworkers was adamant she would never have kids (she was 25 at the time). We all told her it was possible she may change her mind, and she would get super pissed we said that. A few years later she fell in love with a great guy,  got engaged and started trying for a baby before they even walked down the isle. Their little boy just turned one and they're already talking about more.

I have another friend who wanted to have kids from the time she was married in her early 30's, but she got very sick and the doctor told her to freeze her eggs because the treatment would probably destroy them. She froze her eggs, got better, but her and her husband kept putting off having kids. They loved having their own lives, traveling, and kept saying maybe next year. Now they're not sure if they even want them, especially him. They see other people going through it and feel like they may not want to give up the cushy carefree lifestyle they live. 

 

People change their mind about things every day whether it be about having children, getting a pet, changing jobs. Right now your boyfriend is contemplating having kids, or he just wants to stay on your mom's good side since she probably wants to be a grandma one day. Assuming he was being honest,  by next year he may be right back to not having them or he may be deadset on having them. It's possible you may decide you want them just as he decides he doesn't. I know you don't want to hear that, but it could happen. I wouldn't make any rash decisons right now because it seems like ya'll have a great relationship and if you let him go because he's pondering the thought of becoming a father one day, you may regret it for the rest of your life.  

[SincereOnlineGuy]

On 8/28/2020 at 5:30 PM, Lucy256 said:

 

Today, my Mum brought it up (she has always been a little disappointed I don’t want children but also accepts that is me) and for the first time ever, my partner said he wasn’t sure if he wants kids. And that it could be nice to have them. It floored me. I spoke to him privately afterwards and he admitted he wasn’t sure if he wanted to be a father and children might be something he needs in his life. I’m not sure if it’s unreasonable to feel this way, but I feel such a sense of betrayal. 
 

I tried to explain to him that by choosing to be with me, he has a made a decision that he doesn’t want children in a sense. He can’t seem to understand why I’m so stressed about what he has said. But I don’t want to get to a point with him where he resents me for not wanting children. 
 

 

I wish all of us could have a replay that would allow us to extract your mom's influence over how the interaction went down.

 

I mean, maybe mom brought it up  in such a way that invited BF to ponder out loud (for the first time in a while)... and he just let HIS mind really think about it.

 

Back when he accepted your position as a seeming prerequisite to a relationship with you, he signed-on  for "no children"...    but I think he's allowed to ponder it... particularly at a time when large segments of society are stuck in 1st gear and don't have AS much else to ponder as they did a year ago.   This is NOT the sort of thing where it's some other woman, and we know clearly that he fantasized in some overt way  about betraying you with such a person.  (he thought about parenthood, that's it) (and furthermore, he wasn't just driving around the local golf course {in either context} and it just POPPED into his mind...  your mom brought it up)

In addition, various people in his family and periphery have been having kids in the time you've been together, and those too, are variables that still allow him to think and contemplate whether, or how bad he might want kids, and further weigh the you and the now  against any evolving chance he's changed his feelings.     (it is NOT as if somebody was walking down the street with a stroller and under the blankets there was a full-sized female breast, and (gasp!)  YOUR boyfriend saw a breast there...  after you had forbidden him to even think about such a thing other than your own)

 

We don't even know how comfortable your BF and your mom are around one another... and whether it is SO comfortable that he's allowed to think out loud  in front of you both, OR perhaps still somewhat stiff, where some element of their interaction gave him the feeling that he was better off responding in a way that she wanted to hear, than curtly reminding her that (your daughter) doesn't want kids.

I don't think you should invest time second-guessing whatever you heard.     IF he clearly changes his mind, he will be most clear to you.

Beyond that, you are allowed to assume that he heard you loud and clear the first time...  but you'll forgive him if he doesn't race right out and get a vasectomy based on YOUR stern declaration of 4 years ago.  (your life and feelings are allowed to potentially evolve as well)   (they don't have to...).

 

 

[neowulf]

On 8/30/2020 at 7:03 AM, BaileyB said:

As someone who doesn’t have children, I will say that you miss out on so much. You don’t think you will, because when you are young you assume that your friendships will always be close and the world is full of adventure. But, your friends who were once such a big part of your life are now not available because they are enjoying their families. Or better yet, you get together but all they talk about are diapers, preschool, their children’s sport, etc... You will find, you have little in common. Your parents will die, and the life that you once knew will be no more. Again, maybe that’s ok with you and you plan to travel the world and grow old with your partner. But, I would suggest that you leave your options open because you just don’t know what you don’t know at this age...

This... this is what keeps me awake at night  😕 

We know a couple who never had children... Her partner is 63 and dying of cancer, with her in her mid 50's.  

She's going to grow old without her partner and without children of her own.  I can't imagine how lonley and painful that could turn out to be.

But what can you do? Some things in life simply aren't within our ability to control.  You can try your best, yet still fail in the end.

All that's left is to try and make the best of the time you've been given.

[Aurora_]

3 hours ago, SincereOnlineGuy said:

I wish all of us could have a replay that would allow us to extract your mom's influence over how the interaction went down.

 

I mean, maybe mom brought it up  in such a way that invited BF to ponder out loud (for the first time in a while)... and he just let HIS mind really think about it.

 

Back when he accepted your position as a seeming prerequisite to a relationship with you, he signed-on  for "no children"...    but I think he's allowed to ponder it... particularly at a time when large segments of society are stuck in 1st gear and don't have AS much else to ponder as they did a year ago.   This is NOT the sort of thing where it's some other woman, and we know clearly that he fantasized in some overt way  about betraying you with such a person.  (he thought about parenthood, that's it) (and furthermore, he wasn't just driving around the local golf course {in either context} and it just POPPED into his mind...  your mom brought it up)

In addition, various people in his family and periphery have been having kids in the time you've been together, and those too, are variables that still allow him to think and contemplate whether, or how bad he might want kids, and further weigh the you and the now  against any evolving chance he's changed his feelings.     (it is NOT as if somebody was walking down the street with a stroller and under the blankets there was a full-sized female breast, and (gasp!)  YOUR boyfriend saw a breast there...  after you had forbidden him to even think about such a thing other than your own)

 

We don't even know how comfortable your BF and your mom are around one another... and whether it is SO comfortable that he's allowed to think out loud  in front of you both, OR perhaps still somewhat stiff, where some element of their interaction gave him the feeling that he was better off responding in a way that she wanted to hear, than curtly reminding her that (your daughter) doesn't want kids.

I don't think you should invest time second-guessing whatever you heard.     IF he clearly changes his mind, he will be most clear to you.

Beyond that, you are allowed to assume that he heard you loud and clear the first time...  but you'll forgive him if he doesn't race right out and get a vasectomy based on YOUR stern declaration of 4 years ago.  (your life and feelings are allowed to potentially evolve as well)   (they don't have to...).

 

 

Hahaha the breast in a pram analogy evokes some serious imagery! 

You are very right, he is of course allowed to ponder it. He’s also allowed to completely change his mind.I used the word betrayed, but what I actually meant was blindsided.

If it had just been what he said in front of my Mum, I wouldn’t have thought twice about it.  
I wish I could insert a replay of how the conversation went down as well! But it was more what happened after the conversation involving my Mum that was the issue. 

It was the fact that we spoke about it privately afterwards and he expressed the same sentiment. I am planning on having a tubal ligation, so no vasectomy needed haha. Gets rid of any ambiguity concerning me ever having children also. 

[elaine567]

On 8/29/2020 at 10:03 PM, BaileyB said:

 As someone who doesn’t have children, I will say that you miss out on so much. You don’t think you will, because when you are young you assume that your friendships will always be close and the world is full of adventure. But, your friends who were once such a big part of your life are now not available because they are enjoying their families. Or better yet, you get together but all they talk about are diapers, preschool, their children’s sport, etc... You will find, you have little in common. Your parents will die, and the life that you once knew will be no more. Again, maybe that’s ok with you and you plan to travel the world and grow old with your partner. But, I would suggest that you leave your options open because you just don’t know what you don’t know at this age...

And all that doesn't  stop when people age further, it is then the grandkids that becomes the main topic of conversation and women with no irons in that fire are in effect ostracised as they have no grandkids. One can have amazing stories of far off lands but if you have no kids then no-one really wants to hear as they cannot really identify.
Some will quickly lose interest if you have no kids, or they will bombard you with their own kiddie stories.
The education of the woman seems to make no difference, even the most educated get all gaga over their own kids/grand kids...
If it is not tales of Jimmy in the bath, it is then Jimmy with a great job in  in Hong Kong or Jimmy's kids...
Yes they may start with current affairs and other topics, but it all boils down eventually to their kids...

Yes there are women out there with no kids but many are a bit messed up, either they are women who were infertile and have gone down  an agonising fertility route or they are the doting aunties to other people's kids, or they are women who are just as obsessed with their pets, ie the surrogate kids...
Kids are a huge deal in most people's lives.

3 hours ago, neowulf said:

We know a couple who never had children... Her partner is 63 and dying of cancer, with her in her mid 50's.  She's going to grow old without her partner and without children of her own.  I can't imagine how lonely and painful that could turn out to be.

Also a lot are now getting divorced in their fifties, so that life long partner may not stick around, leaving a woman pretty isolated, no kids, no family (dead or dying or distracted by their own kids). and few friends...
 

[Wiseman2]

You weren't betrayed or blindsided. You can still go ahead with your procedure.

He can break up, you can break up with or without your procedure.

There's a house and a dog and talking but that's it.

You do not have to stay with him. Can you afford to buy him out of the house?

It seems like the relationship is on its way out. Start considering what your options are.

[elaine567]

1 hour ago, Aurora_ said:

I wish I could insert a replay of how the conversation went down as well! But it was more what happened after the conversation involving my Mum that was the issue. 
It was the fact that we spoke about it privately afterwards and he expressed the same sentiment

OK so you have another forum profile...

Sounds like your dream of having no children with this man in your life is over.

He wants kids.
 

[schlumpy]

2 hours ago, elaine567 said:

Also a lot are now getting divorced in their fifties, so that life long partner may not stick around, leaving a woman pretty isolated, no kids, no family (dead or dying or distracted by their own kids). and few friends...
 

As usual you did a comprehensive survey of most of the options except for those people with children that want to keep mom and dad at a distance. Just having children does not guarantee company when your get older especially if there is no inheritance to divvy up.

[Wiseman2]

People without kids become cat 🐈 ladies and are left out of some sort of grandma loop?🤔

 

[Aurora_]

.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Aurora_
Accidental reply

[Lucy256]

3 hours ago, elaine567 said:

OK so you have another forum profile...

Sounds like your dream of having no children with this man in your life is over.

He wants kids.
 

Oops! Sorry, that’s my mistake. I only have the one account, my friend has one too and she used it on my laptop and left it logged in. I feel like I should delete the replies I wrote accidentally under her account? Not sure if I can though? 

I appreciate the time taken by everyone to reply, including yourself. But I’m not sure it’s helpful, or reasonable, to proclaim he definitely wants kids when he has said he isn’t sure himself. 

[Lucy256]

4 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

You weren't betrayed or blindsided. You can still go ahead with your procedure.

He can break up, you can break up with or without your procedure.

There's a house and a dog and talking but that's it.

You do not have to stay with him. Can you afford to buy him out of the house?

It seems like the relationship is on its way out. Start considering what your options are.

Sorry, but I was blindsided. The definition of being blindsided is being taken completely by surprise, which I was... 

As with everyone, I appreciate the time you have taken to offer some advice! But much of it is contradictory. In a previous reply you suggested I not act rashly just because he floated the idea of children, but now you are asking if I can afford to buy him out for the house haha. That seems pretty rash! 
 

I really am grateful for the replies, but this isn’t really resonating with me.