The Not Quite Affair Affair

[DKT3]

14 minutes ago, Imgoodimfine said:

Thank you. I have many reasons for weighing it, speaking from my own experience in growing up. I appreciate your words very much! 

******
 

I feel very down from the overall tone this thread has taken. I already habe guilt and shame that I’m working through, and I acknowledge it’s deserved.  But all the telling me that I’m still wanting it, not listening, changing my tune and “everyone thinks I’m going to keep doing it” isn’t why I even came on here. It’s not helping, and I don’t believe it to be true.  I came for the opposite bc I don’t want to be here ever again. This has been a giant beating coming on this forum that I am currently regretting. 

Go to your profile were your posts are isolated and read them all back without any other posts between.  I think you will quickly see why people are responding to you the way they are. 

You don't want to want it but you do and you've said so. Then you say you don't.  Its confusing to read, but those of us who has been through this have learned to ignore words and zero in on actions.  What have you done in actions to safe guard your marriage? 

[Imgoodimfine]

1 minute ago, DKT3 said:

Go to your profile were your posts are isolated and read them all back without any other posts between.  I think you will quickly see why people are responding to you the way they are. 

You don't want to want it but you do and you've said so. Then you say you don't.  Its confusing to read, but those of us who has been through this have learned to ignore words and zero in on actions.  What have you done in actions to safe guard your marriage? 

With all due respect at this point could you please just leave me alone. I know you think you know my personal situation more than I do due to your experience, but your words to me on how I want this to continue and am not done are not true. You do not know me. You do not know my heart for sure, and you are only making my head spin in frustration. Please stop. 
 

This is fresh, and I’m learning. I was here to ask what actions to take based on distance and seeing him to essentially safeguard my marriage, although I’ve not used nor heard that term. I’m not sure I’ve taken any other than trying to move on and process so this never happens again. I’m in that NOW. I don’t have answers. I’m learning. I have tried to educate myself a bit. It’s hard to find similar situations online to relate to since we didn’t share some deep friendship, emotional bond. It was light. I’m still hurt and have hurt my people. I’m trying here. 

[DKT3]

9 minutes ago, Imgoodimfine said:

With all due respect at this point could you please just leave me alone. I know you think you know my personal situation more than I do due to your experience, but your words to me on how I want this to continue and am not done are not true. You do not know me. You do not know my heart for sure, and you are only making my head spin in frustration. Please stop. 
 

This is fresh, and I’m learning. I was here to ask what actions to take based on distance and seeing him to essentially safeguard my marriage, although I’ve not used nor heard that term. I’m not sure I’ve taken any other than trying to move on and process so this never happens again. I’m in that NOW. I don’t have answers. I’m learning. I have tried to educate myself a bit. It’s hard to find similar situations online to relate to since we didn’t share some deep friendship, emotional bond. It was light. I’m still hurt and have hurt my people. I’m trying here. 

Will do....in leaving i will again say go back and read your words. Its not us just making stuff up you've actually wrote those words.

Good luck to you.

[RebeccaR]

I think we are all able to respect your wishes and stop commenting here until you ask for more advice. You can even ask a moderator to lock the thread. If your only question was “does the Other Man keep coming back”, the answer is often yes. But I don’t agree this was a light, unemotional flirtation, because if it was you wouldn’t be struggling right now. Unfortunately, the guy you got involved with may not be such a fine family man as you thought, making it harder to disentangle.

[Imgoodimfine]

4 minutes ago, RebeccaR said:

I think we are all able to respect your wishes and stop commenting here until you ask for more advice. You can even ask a moderator to lock the thread. If your only question was “does the Other Man keep coming back”, the answer is often yes. But I don’t agree this was a light, unemotional flirtation, because if it was you wouldn’t be struggling right now. Unfortunately, the guy you got involved with may not be such a fine family man as you thought, making it harder to disentangle.

Remember the part about me living in my head? I’ve always done this. I think I fantasized it bigger than it was. That being said, emotions were there. I mean by that we didn’t text about our lives and days and dreams and what was going on. None of that occurred. Our texts were dumb and flirty. They often had no point. Light. Inappropriate but not emotionally driven. 
 

does that make sense? You’re helping me by giving advice. Not telling me I’m desiring the affair and lying. That wasn’t directed at you. 

[elaine567]

If you go onto the OW forum, you will find MM tend to not to want to let go easily.
I think many men find it a bit difficult to find a woman who is willing to cheat with him so when he finds one he is unwilling to let her go.
Push pull is also common, guilt and pulling back are par for the course. 
He pulls back, she get sad and often desperate, so he picks the affair up again until he again feels guilty or he feels he is taking an unacceptable risk and he pulls back again.
Of course some men get hooked on the "oh so grateful" nature of the woman when he comes back and so it all can become a bit manipulative...
Here he did the pull back and you also pulled back, thinking it was genuinely all over, but that was not supposed to happen, so he is again back to try to tempt you back
We often get distraught OWs convinced it is all over to be told "Don't worry he will be back", and 99% of the time they are right.
These guys cannot stay away, it may go on for literally years...

Edited September 1, 2020 by elaine567

[Imgoodimfine]

4 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

If you go onto the OW forum, you will find MM tend to not to want to let go easily.
I think many men find it a bit difficult to find a woman who is willing to cheat with him so when he finds one he is unwilling to let her go.
Push pull is also common, guilt and pulling back are par for the course. 
He pulls back, she get sad and often desperate, so he picks the affair up again until he again feels guilty or he feels he is taking an unacceptable risk and he pulls back again.
Of course some men get hooked on the "oh so grateful" nature of the woman when he comes back and so it all can become a bit manipulative...
Here he did the pull back and you also pulled back, thinking it was genuinely all over, but that was not supposed to happen, so he is again back to try to tempt you back
We often get distraught OWs convinced it is all over to be told "Don't worry he will be back", and 99% of the time they are right.
These guys cannot stay away, it may go on for literally years...

This is good info for me. It’s hard for me to even understand that mentality, but I guess I was in it as well. Validation and wanting what I shouldn’t have and can’t have. thank you for sharing. 
 

If this proves true it will be imperative to have my boundaries in place and be firm. This mindset is good for me to know and think about, because I don’t want to have an unprepared weak moment. Thank you again! It all makes my stomach in complete knots of nerves. I hate that I did this to even be here. 

[elaine567]

You also have to realise you are not under the rules of singles dating, this is an extra marital affair and the rules are different.

[Imgoodimfine]

1 minute ago, elaine567 said:

You also have to realise you are not under the rules of singles dating, this is an extra marital affair and the rules are different.

That has been hard for me to process, because I’ve had no one to talk to about it. So yes, you’re so right. And this is people’s lives outside of my selfishness. That’s the worst part of what I did. 

[mark clemson]

30 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

You also have to realise you are not under the rules of singles dating, this is an extra marital affair and the rules are different.

One of those rules being - essentially, that it's typically much wiser to end it fully and permanently, it so as to decrease the risk of it "blowing up your life"...

There have been a few different "takes" on your MM's visit above. Another one (mine) is that he's simply conflicted and wants to continue at some level (presumably the EA/validation level). However, his lack of self-control is putting both your and his family at GREAT risk. Remember that if/when he comes around again (it sounds you do, but I thought I'd reiterate the point). He may be more hung up on you than you realize and so may return at odd and unpredictable intervals. Be wary.

[EPC82]

I'm shocked that anyone would expect her to move. What? I live a few blocks away from my ex MM. To uproot my life because of this would be bananas. Who would mooooove away from home and work and family to avoid one human being? 

Will power. Its a thing. No?

[mark clemson]

1 hour ago, DKT3 said:

Mark you and I have been back and forth on this topic...

For the record, my post was not intended to single you out among the rest of the "tell" crowd. There can be advantages to telling for an OP, depending on the particulars of the situation. Also this OP is still considering the option. I think the simple truth is that you and I may see "what's best for all involved" differently in her particular case.

OP, I will note that many posters over the time I've been here have come to appreciate DKT3's approach/style of advice. I will not claim to know your mind, but it's wise to take some quiet time to sit and be very honest with yourself. Consider - how genuinely you are (or arent') committed to the marriage. Could this happen again? Is it possible you are a bit of a time bomb waiting to go off, in terms of feelings for another man? These are things you should genuinely ruminate upon and come to grips with, IMO.

[Imgoodimfine]

13 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

One of those rules being - essentially, that it's typically much wiser to end it fully and permanently, it so as to decrease the risk of it "blowing up your life"...

There have been a few different "takes" on your MM's visit above. Another one (mine) is that he's simply conflicted and wants to continue at some level (presumably the EA/validation level). However, his lack of self-control is putting both your and his family at GREAT risk. Remember that if/when he comes around again (it sounds you do, but I thought I'd reiterate the point). He may be more hung up on you than you realize and so may return at odd and unpredictable intervals. Be wary.

Thank you. While I’m not over him by any means (and I haven’t said I was over him; I’ve said I’m still sad and processing) this time has brought me one big glaring point: it’s toxic for my mental/emotional state to continue this at any capacity if given the choice. Now he hasn’t come back per say but if it were to happen I appreciate all these tips and scenarios. I don’t want to live in this weird state anymore. It’s been awful. 
 

and thank you. I have no idea if he is or isn’t. And I need to not care. That’s where I’m going to have to do willpower work and I’m aware. 

[Zona]

1 hour ago, Imgoodimfine said:

This has been a giant beating coming on this forum that I am currently regretting. 

Don't take it personally. It's normal for a WW to be defensive at first. That is something you could talk about with IC, if you do it.

As other's have mentioned, just trying to white-knuckle it and use will power to stay on the straight and narrow in the future probably won't be enough.

Not to continue the beating, but let's just say that if your husband found out you were secretly communicating with a romantic interest and were very disappointed when it did not proceed further, it could definitely be a s**tstorm. I think it's a bigger deal than you are admitting to yourself.

[Imgoodimfine]

6 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

OP, I will note that many posters over the time I've been here have come to appreciate DKT3's approach/style of advice. I will not claim to know your mind, but it's wise to take some quiet time to sit and be very honest with yourself. Consider - how genuinely you are (or arent') committed to the marriage. Could this happen again? Is it possible you are a bit of a time bomb waiting to go off, in terms of feelings for another man? These are things you should genuinely ruminate upon and come to grips with, IMO.

I respect that and was listening at first especially when he said he’d been the one BH. However every time I try to say what I mean it must come across as Greek to him. I’m not being clear even tho I’m trying to be. 
 

as for my marriage it’s always been healthy until we got distant. The last few months have been so good. I love him dearly, yet I know it doesn’t seem that way due to my actions. I want to grow old with him. I don’t want to explain my life or place blame on my own actions as a crutch, but in processing I do think I seek validation due to low self worth stemming from things growing up that I’ve never dealt with. These little things have become clear to me in ways they weren’t even 4 months ago. I’ve tried to stop my behavior many times. But him ending it for me was what I needed. To feel rejected. 
 

So I guess point is that I desire my marriage to last and get stronger. I desire to lose this crush that I’ve fostered and to be who I was created to be. Not this woman who is distant and a shell of her old self. 

[Imgoodimfine]

17 minutes ago, Zona said:

Don't take it personally. It's normal for a WW to be defensive at first. That is something you could talk about with IC, if you do it.

As other's have mentioned, just trying to white-knuckle it and use will power to stay on the straight and narrow in the future probably won't be enough.

Not to continue the beating, but let's just say that if your husband found out you were secretly communicating with a romantic interest and were very disappointed when it did not proceed further, it could definitely be a s**tstorm. I think it's a bigger deal than you are admitting to yourself.

Thanks! What is IC? What more is needed besides will power and boundaries in your experience?

Of course it’s all a big deal. It’s all good food for thought on that point. I see that. 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Imgoodimfine

[Imgoodimfine]

41 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

One of those rules being - essentially, that it's typically much wiser to end it fully and permanently, it so as to decrease the risk of it "blowing up your life"...

There have been a few different "takes" on your MM's visit above. Another one (mine) is that he's simply conflicted and wants to continue at some level (presumably the EA/validation level). However, his lack of self-control is putting both your and his family at GREAT risk. Remember that if/when he comes around again (it sounds you do, but I thought I'd reiterate the point). He may be more hung up on you than you realize and so may return at odd and unpredictable intervals. Be wary.

Wanted to also say that I think your assessment of MM is closest to reality in the conflicted part. I don’t know why but that’s my gut. Not saying he’d return but you gave me good food for thought to be aware. I felt like his words were genuine and he’d be gone. Could still be true, but as for possibilities, thank you for your take. 

[HadMeOverABarrel]

WHAT TO DO:

YOUR ACTIONS - tell him nicely to keep his distance from you, physically and otherwise. Tell him you can't be friends anymore and that your communication should be limited to only that which is absolutely necessary (e.g. "yes, that work report is ready for your review" or "my husband will pick up your and my sons from the ballpark next Tuesday").

YOUR THOUGHTS - stop thinking you were victimized. You weren't. You were on equal footing with him in this. What you're really feeling is the sting of rejection, and shame that he 'beat you to the punch' in recognizing the two of you were heading down a dangerous path and he is now enforcing the boundary. 

Ask yourself, would you feel better if you had been the one to shut this down instead of him? I think so. I think you now feel humiliated for making yourself vulnerable to him, so that he could ultimately reject you in favor of his wife. You feel ashamed that you let yourself develop ideas that he found you more attractive than his wife

You got burned because you played with fire, but that doesn't make him the bad guy just because he's the one who put the fire out. He shouldn't have one upped your husband, but he was enjoying the ego boost of feeling like he's already one upped him by making you swoon for him (then he got to twist the knife with his remark to your unwitting husband).

It's the same ego boost you were getting when you were thinking you one upped his wife. You are lucky your husband didn't put two and two together on what happened in that moment. Frankly, you created the opportunity for this guy to take a swipe at your husband by making yourself available to him (for flirting etc).

I think there is a part of you who's still hoping he finds you desirable, and that makes you read into his behavior to decide if he does. You want him to still find you desirable so your now bruised ego will be less bruised...alleviate some of the shame and rejection you're feeling.

OP, you clearly are remorseful and realize your errors so none of what I say is to further inflict guilt on you; rather I'm trying to help you see what has unfolded here.

The good news: there's a challenge here that will help you grow should you decide to take it. The challenge is seeing how dependent you became on this guy's attention, and how vulnerable/ashamed you felt once everything shifted. That points to some unresolved emotional business in your history. You could dig into that with a professional to see what made you vulnerable in the first place, which would lead to lots of self-discovery and growth for you. 

That growth will bear good fruit in all your relationships. 

Edited September 1, 2020 by HadMeOverABarrel

[Imgoodimfine]

6 minutes ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

 

YOUR THOUGHTS - stop thinking you were victimized. You weren't. You were on equal footing with him in this. What you're really feeling is the sting of rejection, and shame that he 'beat you to the punch' in recognizing the two of you were heading down a dangerous path and he is now enforcing the boundary. 

Ask yourself, would you feel better if you had been the one to shut this down instead of him? I think so. I think you now feel humiliated for making yourself vulnerable to him, so that he could ultimately reject you in favor of his wife. You feel ashamed that you let yourself develop ideas that he found you more attractive than his wife

You got burned because you played with fire, but that doesn't make him the bad guy just because he's the one who put the fire out. He shouldn't have one upped your husband, but he was enjoying the ego boost of feeling like he's already one upped him by making you swoon for him (then he got to twist the knife with his remark to your unwitting husband).

It's the same ego boost you were getting when you were thinking you one upped his wife. You are lucky your husband didn't put two and two together on what happened in that moment. Frankly, you created the opportunity for this guy to take a swipe at your husband by making yourself available to him (for flirting etc).

I think there is a part of you who's still hoping he finds you desirable, and that makes you read into his behavior to decide if he does. You want him to still find you desirable so your now bruised ego will be less bruised...alleviate some of the shame and rejection you're feeling

Thanks for writing all that out. Absolutely spot on with a ton of that and how I felt initially. I don’t deny that at all. I’ve also said I was just as much a part of it. One of biggest emotions when discussing with my friends was the humiliation that I felt for not being the one to have the integrity to shut it down. The whole thing was lacking integrity, but I had a chance. I’ve definitely felt that shame. No denying. Just haven’t written out every thought of my process so far. I was happy, remember, while he made the right choice. That’s what I’ve said all along. And it was very humbling and shameful. 
 

Ego boost-thats why I said the validation part. I get that, too. I have really tried to unfold this to not be a repeat offender and be better for my family. And of course validation felt good like that drug hit everyone discusses. All of this is true. And yes, in my selfish state I did same thing against his family. I’m just here now trying to never be there again, believing that it wouldn’t happen bc it was over. 
 

Much of what you guys think I haven’t owned I have or am currently. Doesn’t mean I’m cured bc I’m far from it and in the works now. But I get my part. I’m maybe not showing that I do? 
 

thank you for all of that and advice. Very sound and good for me to see and hear. What a mess this whole thing is! I do think the unpacking with tools needs to be with a pro. Smart. 

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Just want to add, I'm not intending to chastise you. You're doing a good job of doing that to yourself by the way so don't be so hard on yourself. Just learn, explore, understand, grow. Rather I hope to give you a bird's eye view of what I think is happening here. 

From my perspective, and this is what I've learned from my own therapy: shame (feeling ashamed/embarrassed) goes back to our own deep rooted sense of self worth from our developmental years. Also pain from rejection can tie back to feelings of rejection, abandonment, not having our needs met in our youth. 

[Imgoodimfine]

58 minutes ago, HadMeOverABarrel said:

 

From my perspective, and this is what I've learned from my own therapy: shame (feeling ashamed/embarrassed) goes back to our own deep rooted sense of self worth from our developmental years. Also pain from rejection can tie back to feelings of rejection, abandonment, not having our needs met in our youth. 

Thank you for this. This speaks to me on many levels. I have a hard time getting over emotional sadness/pain, and I definitely felt rejected. I wish I could snap out of pain like many on here seem to be able or advise me to do, but I’m realistic in that it’ll be awhile. I know me on that level. What I didn’t realize was your last line. That makes things very clear to me and my emotions. Thank you very much. I want to know more now!

and I didn’t see you as chastising me. All you said was accurate. I’ve felt most of what you wrote and again, don’t deny that. I just didn’t write out every Action, thought, pain and feeling I’ve had or I might be writing a novel. 

[Zona]

10 hours ago, Imgoodimfine said:

Thanks! What is IC? What more is needed besides will power and boundaries in your experience?

I.C. is individual counselling (as oppose to marriage counselling which involves both partners).

Bittersweetie and OverABarrel touched on the issues you need to address.

[elaine567]

11 hours ago, Zona said:

That is something you could talk about with IC, if you do it.

The OP is already in therapy...

[Imgoodimfine]

30 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

The OP is already in therapy...

True, but not a doc. I think I need a psych. I’ve been thinking this for awhile as I process even during what I called a big crush/EA. 

[Wiseman2]

1 hour ago, Imgoodimfine said:

True, but not a doc. I think I need a psych. I’ve been thinking this for awhile as I process even during what I called a big crush/EA. 

Sure a good first step is an evaluation by a physician for underlying medical, mood or other issues, then a referral to a therapist to unpack and sort some stuff out.

If you are uneasy for whatever reason let the pros help you.