Friend has terrible planning; feeling taken for granted at times

[TheEternalPessimist]

I would love to get your thoughts on a weird situation I have with a friend. I've known Marcela for 2 years, I'm 26 and she turned 22 recently. We met when we shared a flat with 2 other roommates back when I was a student in her country for 1 year in 2018, she was 20 and I was 24. Marcela was only in the flat for 4 more months after I arrived but we had 2 classes together and we stayed in touch sporadically outside the flat when she moved out even though we didn't hang out much. I met her (new) boyfriend fairly quickly when I moved in the flat and got along great with him even though me and him didn't become friends or stayed in touch. Marcela spontaneously invited me over for Christmas with her family despite the fact that I don't celebrate Christmas so I got to meet her siblings and extended family. When I ran into trouble with one of the roommates a few months after she moved out, she was the only one I could speak to about the issue and even though we had our disagreements about the situation she till defended me and stood by my side even though she could have easily betrayed me and put me in a lot of trouble with the other roommate if she really wanted to. 

Around this time last year, I was about to finish my studies and couldn't stay in the country after I was done so I opted to move to a neighboring country instead. Marcela was going to attend a semester abroad also in a neighboring country from hers (ours at the time) but different than the one I moved to. I didn't hear from her most of the summer and then in mid-August she contacted me and wanted us to meet and discuss our upcoming exam. We did that and I told her I would love to hang out for or around her birthday because we would both be going to live abroad afterwards. Keep in mind, she didn't message me all summer until she needed me to discuss and practice for the exam. Marcela agreed to hang out after the exam but then she didn't contact me for 2 weeks until I messaged her and she told me she was already gone. Her reason for leaving the country early was reasonable but I told her she still should have at the very least let me know as to not keep me waiting and hoping, that to me would have been the responsible thing to do. She apologized sincerely, reacted really well to my comments (unlike 99,9% of people who behaved similarly towards me in the past) and the "dispute" was over before it even had really began. We kept in touch afterwards, texting every 3-4 weeks and speaking on the phone once every 2 months or so. 

Fast forward to last month, her sister needed to attend a language program in the city and country I live in now so she decided to go with her sister and we hung out twice in 4 days. Once the three of us (me, her and her sister) for drinks and another time just the two of us (me and her) for breakfast. Because she is still a student and I work full-time, I offered to pay both of our outings as a way of thanking her for visiting me. 

Just a few days ago, I came back to her country to pick up some personal stuff I left behind when I moved out and couldn't pick up earlier because of the pandemic. When we hung out a month prior, she knew that I would be coming and that we would likely hang out again because we both wanted to. Last week, she asked me to remind her when I would be visiting, I gave her the dates then sent her an audio message for her birthday (I arrived in her country the day before her birthday). I didn't hear from her for 3 full days when I was in her country and another 3 days before I had arrived, that's almost a week of not getting any info from her right after she asked when I would be in her country. By that point, I felt like this was all déjà-vu from her and that it would fall through just like it did the year before. Suddenly the day before I was about to leave and head back to where I live, she sent me an audio message. She didn't really apologize a whole lot, said she went climbing with some new friends from college, got the flu because it was pouring rain all weekend and that is why she took so long to respond. While I believed her (I still do), I obviously wasn't too pleased about her poor planning and lack of responsibility, texting someone and planning a hang out literally takes a minute at most and I got really worried not hearing from her for so long. We did finally meet for dinner and had a good conversation overall. She still didn't really apologize for leaving me hanging for days and I was a bit shocked when at the end of the meal she didn't offer to pay for the both of us even though I paid for the both of us TWICE the month prior, I was the one visiting this time around AND I had to somewhat change my plans to accomodate her so we could finally see each other like waking up very early in the morning (it also would have been a nice way to make up for the situation she put me and us in needlessly, I felt).

What should I do about this? Am I being too picky or demanding? I care about her a lot and we get along great but her poor planning is really pissing me off at times, it's costing me time and energy and I think it has the potential to create a lot more tensions in our friendship in the future if she keeps handling things in this fashion. Ultimately though, I cannot force her to change her ways if this is truly how she handles things which 2 years later I'm still not so sure about. 

 

[ShyViolet]

9 hours ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

What should I do about this? Am I being too picky or demanding? I care about her a lot and we get along great but her poor planning is really pissing me off at times, it's costing me time and energy and I think it has the potential to create a lot more tensions in our friendship in the future if she keeps handling things in this fashion. Ultimately though, I cannot force her to change her ways if this is truly how she handles things which 2 years later I'm still not so sure about. 

 

I'm not sure I understand what you mean "what do I do about this."  There's nothing to DO about it... you can't control other people.  She is going to be the way she is.  I don't think "confronting" her about this would be appropriate or would accomplish anything... it would only be weird and overbearing.  She sounds a little flaky at times, she hangs out with you/contacts you when she feels like it, but you are not a priority in her life.  If you don't like having to expend time and energy on this, then you can stop being friends with her.  That's pretty much it.

[basil67]

I agree with Violet.  You know who she is and how she manages herself.  If the friendship is costing too much time and energy, just stop calling her. 

[TheEternalPessimist]

I agree with both of you that ultimately I cannot change her and ask her to perceive responsibility and even basic decency the way I see it which is why this is complicated. I just don't want this to happen again but this time in much worse fashion. Also I warned her before (last summer) about not leaving me hanging because it ruins my plans, forces me to accomodate her and drains my energy. I didn't use those terms but that's how I personally feel. Ultimately if she really is taking me for granted (which I doubt but you never know) and I just let it happen then I feel like that directly opens the door for her behavior to get worse until it becomes a very big problem. I could be wrong though obviously. We are supposed to see each other again at some point later this year or beginning of next year.

 

[elaine567]

15 hours ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

I didn't hear from her most of the summer and then in mid-August she contacted me and wanted us to meet and discuss our upcoming exam.

That is because she doesn't rate your your friendship, she saw a way of using you so she contacted you.
You then took it  a step too far by inviting yourself to a hang out around her birthday and she completely ducked out...
This year she kind of used you to entertain her and her sister for some drinks and food in your country but when you showed up in her country she keeps you at arm's length by going missing in action,  only contacting you the day before you are about to leave, and getting you to pay for dinner...
You may care for her but she doesn't really care for you, past an acquaintance and someone she can use when she feels like it.
You are not her bf, she is not interested in you,  so expecting a young woman to make you a priority is asking too much.
This "relationship" should have died a death the minute she moved  out... I don't really know why she invited you for Christmas but it was probably out of pity...
Stop trying to make friends out of young women.
It is NOT about "poor planning".

[TheEternalPessimist]

1 hour ago, elaine567 said:

That is because she doesn't rate your your friendship, she saw a way of using you so she contacted you.
You then took it  a step too far by inviting yourself to a hang out around her birthday and she completely ducked out...
This year she kind of used you to entertain her and her sister for some drinks and food in your country but when you showed up in her country she keeps you at arm's length by going missing in action,  only contacting you the day before you are about to leave, and getting you to pay for dinner...
You may care for her but she doesn't really care for you, past an acquaintance and someone she can use when she feels like it.
You are not her bf, she is not interested in you,  so expecting a young woman to make you a priority is asking too much.
This "relationship" should have died a death the minute she moved  out... I don't really know why she invited you for Christmas but it was probably out of pity...
Stop trying to make friends out of young women.
It is NOT about "poor planning".

You're speculating and assuming things, you were not there. That's not how it happened, I didn't invite myself to a hang out at all, it's not something I would ever do. I simply said it would be nice to hang out around her birthday because we would both be leaving the country after, it seemed like a logical proposal to me and I would suggest it again to someone if I was in a similar situation. When you are friends with someone and you know you won't see each other for a while, you usually make plans to meet one last time before. Her having her birthday around that time is just a detail since she usually doesn't do much for her birthday anyways. I absolutely don't expect her to make me a priority, I am baffled that you would in any way think I do. I simply expect her to plan a bit better because her poor planning is making things needlessly complicated at times.

She was busy planning her move abroad (busier than she thought she would be, apparently), she didn't duck out. The only thing is I wish she told me it would not be possible instead of making me wait and wonder for several days. Someone who plans well will let his or her friend(s) know that they left the country earlier or that they planned activities with others because that's the considerate and responsible thing to do in a friendship. Also when I told her I felt like she used me to study for the exam, she immediately apologized and told me that she completely understands why I could feel that way. She didn't confrontational and she didn't try to pin the blame on me. If I'm such a burden to her, she could have easily cut contact with me by now, refused to hang out when she came visiting my city with her sister (I didn't ask her if she would come visiting, she voluntarily told me that she would) and make it impossible for us to see each other when I came visiting. The only thing that's annoying to me is her not having a sense of responsibility to inform people in advance whether she has plans which leads to me having to sometimes work my way around my own schedule to accomodate her and change plans at the last minute. That's both energy-draining and time consuming. Also, if I'm such a burden to her (aka if she is desperate to avoid me, basically), why did she ask me to remind her when exactly I would be coming to visit and how long I would be staying?? While we did hang out at the very last minute, she could have easily pulled out a "sorry too late, maybe next time" on me if she wanted to. I am glad we made it work in the end but to me it doesn't make up for the poor planning prior. 

 

Edited September 2, 2020 by TheEternalPessimist

[elaine567]

What I see is politeness and a wish to not rock boats on her part. She does not tell you outright she doesn't want to see you , no she just leaves every thing last minute so she doesn't have to entertain you for days. She makes no plans and leaves you hanging around.
If she was a good friend she would be organising trips, events for the two of you to visit, she would make your visit a good one, as it was she went missing in action and I guess she considered not contacting you at all, but she thought better of it and fitted you in, in the last hours of your stay.
She may have felt bad and apologised when you called her out on it, for using you over the exam prep, but she did use you..

[d0nnivain]

3 hours ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

 Also I warned her before (last summer) about not leaving me hanging because it ruins my plans, forces me to accomodate her and drains my energy. 

Stop making plans that revolve around her.  Do what you are going to do.  If she shows up great.  If she doesn't oh well.  

For example don't say "would you like to do X?  then wait around for her.  Instead say "I'm doing X on this date.  I'd love to see you.  Come along." Then you go off & do X whether or not she comes.  

Make your plans assuming she won't come.  Then you can be pleasantly surprised if she shows but it's no skin off your nose if she doesn't  

[TheEternalPessimist]

9 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

What I see is politeness and a wish to not rock boats on her part. She does not tell you outright she doesn't want to see you , no she just leaves every thing last minute so she doesn't have to entertain you for days. She makes no plans and leaves you hanging around.
If she was a good friend she would be organising trips, events for the two of you to visit, she would make your visit a good one, as it was she went missing in action and I guess she considered not contacting you at all, but she thought better of it and fitted you in, in the last hours of your stay.
She may have felt bad and apologised when you called her out on it, for using you over the exam prep, but she did use you..

Entertain me for days?? I never asked her to entertain me for days, I would just expect her to contact me in a reasonable period of time especially when she knows I'm coming over AND when she specifically asked to know when I would be there (a weird thing to do if you are trying to avoid someone or go out of your way to not see them at all). It's not like I went out of my way to give her that information without her asking for it first, I'm not that intense and it would be weird because my trips to her country include more than just seeing her. You're making her sound a lot worse and a lot more manipulative than she really is, I think I know my friend fairly well by now, I just question her lack of responsibility and how it might get worse if I don't say anything about it ever.

I think by now she knows I felt used and such situation where she mistakenly or on purpose used me for something haven't happened since. I'm more concerned about her poor planning and her apparently not learning anything from that small incident last year which was a direct result of her poor planning and not keeping me updated.

[TheEternalPessimist]

11 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

Stop making plans that revolve around her.  Do what you are going to do.  If she shows up great.  If she doesn't oh well.  

For example don't say "would you like to do X?  then wait around for her.  Instead say "I'm doing X on this date.  I'd love to see you.  Come along." Then you go off & do X whether or not she comes.  

Make your plans assuming she won't come.  Then you can be pleasantly surprised if she shows but it's no skin off your nose if she doesn't  

You make a very good point, I definitely plan to do things differently when it comes to my next visit as to avoid situations where I'm somewhere far away and she comes calling in the middle of the day to hang out when I'm in her country but maybe 3 hours away from where she lives. Next time, I plan to take a few days just for myself to visit and then end my trip in her area where I also have one other friend and a lot of things to do. I told her as much so she knows.

Edited September 2, 2020 by TheEternalPessimist

[d0nnivain]

If it's convenient & fun for you, hang with her.  If it's stressful or annoying, don't.  

[TheEternalPessimist]

3 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

If it's convenient & fun for you, hang with her.  If it's stressful or annoying, don't.  

When it's stressful and annoying it is mainly because of her and her poor planning. Me having to wait for her and at times preventing myself from going somewhere (although that hasn't happened much) in case she contacts me to hang out is frustrating and I plan to never put myself in such a situation again. 

[elaine567]

9 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

(a weird thing to do if you are trying to avoid someone or go out of your way to not see them at all)

As I said politeness.

[TheEternalPessimist]

If it's politeness then it's fake politeness and I can tell. There is nothing genuine or polite about asking someone when they will be in your country or area if you secretly plan to use that information to avoid seeing them on purpose for instance. With that being said, I don't believe she is THAT manipulative and if she really is then she is definitely on a whole other level compared to other actual manipulators I met before and even had the misfortune of living with at some point. She actually knows some of those people and knows how I feel about them.

Edited September 2, 2020 by TheEternalPessimist

[elaine567]

15 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

With that being said, I don't believe she is THAT manipulative

Forget her words and look at her actions...

[TheEternalPessimist]

The thing is, both last summer and just recently, she had very good explanations that can be credible and are probably genuine. When we went to eat dinner recently, she did genuinely have a cold, it's not something you can fake. I can usually tell when someone is trying to deceive me and in the 2 years I've known her I can't remember a single moment where I thought she was trying to lie to me or manipulate me in any way. I'm just annoyed and frustrated that she didn't SAY anything in advance, a simple text message would have been enough and also paying for both our meals is something I was expecting. I had my fair share of experiences with manipulative people and she doesn't fit one. It wouldn't make sense either because she knows how much a manipulative person (our former common roommate) damaged me and stood by my side as it was happening. It just wouldn't make sense for her to go ahead and engage in manipulations of her own. I fail to see what she could gain from it, at this point. 

Edited September 2, 2020 by TheEternalPessimist

[ShyViolet]

1 hour ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

When it's stressful and annoying it is mainly because of her and her poor planning. 

This is an inaccurate statement, the issue is not her "poor planning."  The issue is that she is making it clear to you that you are not a priority in her life; she is not interested in being close friends.  She is interested in maybe hanging out with you once in a while, as an afterthought, if it's convenient for her.  The issue is that you need to stop having unrealistic expectations of this person.  This is how she approaches hanging out with you.  It's not going to change.  So either accept it and try to fit it into your life, or just stop hanging out with her.

[TheEternalPessimist]

You are taking this to an extreme. I am in no way expecting or wanting to be a priority in her life BUT there is such a thing as common decency and planning whether it be in friendships, in relationships or when it comes to family matters. Common decency tells you that when you ask your friend when he will be in your country and he responds, you shouldn't wait almost a week to message him back knowing he could already be in the country and waiting to hear back from you. If you know you're going to take ages to respond and that he's called you out before for being somewhat flaky then don't ask him when he'll be visiting. 

We don't even live in the same country anymore so of course we can only hang out once in a while, I'm not asking or looking for more than just casual hangouts and even when we were living in the same country we didn't exactly hang out all the time so I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me here. We went to the movies once because she wanted to go, we saw each other in class, in the flat at times before she moved out and we went walking in the city maybe 2-3 times including having drinks together once. She invited me for Christmas two years ago and I'm the process of proofreading one of her bachelor works, for instance.

All I would like and ask for is that it doesn't get needlessly complicated to see each other due to her not responding. Honestly, do you find it normal for someone to ask you when you are coming to visit and then ghost you for almost a full week? How would you feel if someone did that to you? THAT'S the poor planning and the lack of consideration I'm taking about. 

[elaine567]

2 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

I'm the process of proofreading one of her bachelor works, for instance

Ah!

[Wiseman2]

Some people are freer or flakier than others. For example she stated she was away and then not feeling well. It seems more like the timelines of your visit didn't line up and she couldn't drop everything when you happened to be there. Keep it simple and maybe next time see if she's free and go then.

[ShyViolet]

1 hour ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

Honestly, do you find it normal for someone to ask you when you are coming to visit and then ghost you for almost a full week? How would you feel if someone did that to you? THAT'S the poor planning and the lack of consideration I'm taking about. 

If someone did that to me, I would say to myself "well I guess that person is not really my friend" and then I would move on.  I don't see what the confusion is here.

[TheEternalPessimist]

You must switch friends and end friendships quite often then. I don't believe that saying someone isn't really your friend based on that kind of behavior is a fair assessment of the situation. For me personally it takes a lot more to stop viewing someone as a friend just on the sole basis of being ghosted. 

[kismetkismet]

I think you may just have different views of how close your friendship is. You've only been friends for a couple of years and haven't even lived in the same country for the majority of the friendship. It's true it would have been kinder for her to be more communicative the couple of times she wasn't able to meet up, but she may just be a busy kind-of-flaky person. People don't have the time or energy to give 100% of themselves to every relationship in their lives. She may just see you as an acquaintance/casual friend rather than a close friend. 

[TheEternalPessimist]

Actually we lived in the same country for a year (13 months, to be exact), I moved out about a year ago and I met her when I moved in her country so we lived in the same country for about half of our friendship thus far. I'm not sure what differentiates a casual friend from a close friend. Do you invite a casual friend over for Christmas and introduce him to your family? Do you go out for dinner and tell each other some very personal things? I don't think so. I'm probably the closest guy friend that she has which of course doesn't mean she won't meet other guys during the rest of her studies as well. I'm totally fine with it since it's not a popularity contest, she is obviously totally allowed to have other friends and I would never get in the way of her other friendships. 

[clia]

23 hours ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

When it's stressful and annoying it is mainly because of her and her poor planning. Me having to wait for her and at times preventing myself from going somewhere (although that hasn't happened much) in case she contacts me to hang out is frustrating and I plan to never put myself in such a situation again. 

Then stop waiting for her.  You are bringing the stress and annoyance on yourself based on your own behavior.  If I try to make plans with a person and they don't get back to me within a reasonable amount of time, I assume they aren't interested and move along with my own plans.  I don't wait and wait and wait or change what I want to do in the hopes that they might hit me up at the last minute.  You make it very easy for her to be flaky when you have shown her that you are willing to wait around or drop everything for her.  At this point, you know how she is, she isn't going to change, so don't participate in the stress and annoyance of it.