Is there any scenario where pursuing a good friend can work out?

[Happy Lemming]

14 minutes ago, Inflikted said:

But what I was getting at is, does that necessarily matter,

It depends on the woman... in my example, my Latina girlfriend never dated outside of the "type" she liked.

Since it does not appear your friend has a particular type, then my inquiry no longer applies.

I still think if she wanted to date you, she would have let you know in the past (at some point).

If you want to date a woman, I still think you need to "Stay the course" and move out of your parents home ASAP.

I have an unrelated question... You mentioned playing a card game with the male friend in this relationship.  Is this the type of card game that could be played with others (in a group) like poker or bridge??

[Inflikted]

1 minute ago, Happy Lemming said:

I still think if she wanted to date you, she would have let you know in the past (at some point).

I guess, but I don't know that she would've explicitly done so while in the relationship she was in, right? But that's why part of me wonders about whether or not there's anything more to some of the peculiar things she's said in the past. Like, maybe she was hinting that I could be an option if the situation changed, but wasn't necessarily going to say that explicitly while she was with someone. Yanno?

3 minutes ago, Happy Lemming said:

If you want to date a woman, I still think you need to "Stay the course" and move out of your parents home ASAP.

Well, yeah, of course. Like I said in my other thread, I have plans. And, I mean, heck, even just in terms of this friend of mine, she's already aware of my situation and my plans, so I don't think that would be a factor there.

4 minutes ago, Happy Lemming said:

I have an unrelated question... You mentioned playing a card game with the male friend in this relationship.  Is this the type of card game that could be played with others (in a group) like poker or bridge??

It's a trading card game. So, I mean, yeah, it's something that can be played with other people who also play it and have their own cards.

[Happy Lemming]

12 minutes ago, Inflikted said:

So, I mean, yeah, it's something that can be played with other people who also play it and have their own cards.

Would this be a way to socialize with other people??  Meet other humans??  Teach you some basic socialization skills??  Do groups of people gather to trade/play?? Could you be invited to these gatherings??

I'm picturing a group of people that get together to play bridge??  Or is it something completely different??

[Happy Lemming]

20 minutes ago, Inflikted said:

Like, maybe she was hinting that I could be an option if the situation changed, but wasn't necessarily going to say that explicitly while she was with someone. Yanno?

It's not happening... She is never going to date you.  Let this go and focus your energy on something productive.

Something that is going to get you towards an attainable goal, like learning some basic socialization skills, etc.

[Inflikted]

8 minutes ago, Happy Lemming said:

Would this be a way to socialize with other people??  Meet other humans??  Teach you some basic socialization skills??  Do groups of people gather to trade/play?? Could you be invited to these gatherings??

I'm picturing a group of people that get together to play bridge??  Or is it something completely different??

Yeah. Over in my rant thread, I was talking about it the other day. I have a contact that was a friend in grade school who owns his own game store. I actually reached out a couple times and tried to get a friendship going with him at the end of last year, but he never seemed to reciprocate an interest. Anyway, my plan once the pandemic ends is to try to go to some of the events at his store and try to play with people and stuff. Granted, who knows when the pandemic will actually allow that to be a reality, and that could still be several months off, but still.

3 minutes ago, Happy Lemming said:

It's not happening... She is never going to date you.  Let this go and focus your energy on something productive.

I know, I know, I just really want there to be something there. And, hey, I mean, I know you said it was no longer relevant, but you were going to go somewhere with the discussion of her having a type and whether or not I fit that type, so do you really think it's a total lost cause?

In any case, not that I'm reading anything into it, but something that strikes me as somewhat peculiar is that, at some point within the last couple of weeks, when she and I have talked, she's practically been acting like he doesn't exist, or never existed. The one time she did mention him, she quickly changed the subject and invited me to something in a couple weeks. She used to vent to me more about her relationship issues in years past, but hasn't been talking to me about that stuff at all for the last year. Like I said, I'm not insinuating that "means" anything, I'm more so just somewhat curious about what changed, why she stopped confiding that kind of thing in me last year, and why we're on this weird sort of new "blank slate" where the ex never existed.

[Happy Lemming]

3 hours ago, nospam99 said:

@HL. Inflikted hasn't tried suggestions to meet women for the same reason he hasn't tried suggestions to improve his career or to get his own place .... because he ASSUMED the suggestions wouldn't work - self-fulfilling prophecies.

Yes... I know.  I keep thinking that there is some key that I'll discover, that will unlock the door and start the process to a happy and fulfilling life for Inflikted.  I really want him to experience the wonders and happiness of dating, going places with a woman, new activities/experiences with her and the joy of great sex.

Its like when you pick up a book at a used bookstore.  Then you discover this wonderful author that you never knew existed and you seek out all of his/her works.  It opens the door up to a fulfilling and happy experience.

Alas, none of my keys seem to have been able to open that door...  I have failed.

[Happy Lemming]

4 minutes ago, Inflikted said:

so do you really think it's a total lost cause?

NEVER. GOING. TO. HAPPEN.

7 minutes ago, Inflikted said:

she's practically been acting like he doesn't exist, or never existed.

Different people handle breakups in different ways.  When a woman dumps me, I shower and go out to the local bar/pub and try to find a one night stand.  I don't sit on my couch and re-think and analyze every little thing.  This person didn't want me and there are plenty of fish in the sea, so I'm going to try to find her replacement and ASAP!

Your friend may have talked about the breakup enough and may be internalizing it or over it.  She may already be searching on-line for a new guy.

Many years ago, I got a call from an ex-girlfriend.  She got dumped by this guy and was quite sad.  So she invited me over for sex to get over him.  She said "The quickest way to get over a guy was to get underneath another one".  We were FWB's for a couple of weeks until she felt better, then she went back to dating.  All good.

[Inflikted]

9 minutes ago, Happy Lemming said:

Alas, none of my keys seem to have been able to open that door...  I have failed.

I apologize that I've made you feel this way. Though, I think we can all agree that any and all "failure" is purely on my part.

In any case, aside from being a bit hung up on an infatuation with my good friend, I'm actually in a better place personally than I've been in quite a while. I'm trying to create some opportunities at work to eventually better my standing, I'm refocusing on my goal for moving out.

Yes, it's true that I still don't believe a "love life" is in the cards for me. And while that is quite sad on many levels, I'm trying to choose to operate under the mindset that it simply is what it is, and that I need to start planning for a life spent alone.

Either way, no offense to you or anyone else, but I'd prefer to keep this thread on its specific topic, and any other discussions as per me and my other "issues", perhaps we can move those over into my thread in the personal rants forum?

[Inflikted]

1 minute ago, Happy Lemming said:

NEVER. GOING. TO. HAPPEN.

Heh. I mean, on some level, I know that. I do. Like I said, it's just so hard to not want there to be something there. It's so nice, what we have. We get along so well, we have a good time together, we've experienced so many things together, I seem to mesh well with her family. It's such a nice "foundation" that we have, it's just so difficult to stop wanting there to be something more there.

[Happy Lemming]

2 minutes ago, Inflikted said:

Yes, it's true that I still don't believe a "love life" is in the cards for me.

I really believe there is a lid for every pot...  Will finding your lid require some rejections, yes.. but we have all had rejections.  It is a journey, only you can take the first step.

[MeadowFlower]

Just now, Happy Lemming said:

I really believe there is a lid for every pot...  

😂 😂 Haven't heard that expression before. Lol. 

[Happy Lemming]

1 minute ago, MeadowFlower said:

😂😂 Haven't heard that expression before. Lol. 

I'm 54... so I have a lot of old expressions that have been used over and over and over.

That doesn't make them any less true.

I really do think there is someone out there for everyone!!

[Inflikted]

3 minutes ago, Happy Lemming said:

I really believe there is a lid for every pot...  Will finding your lid require some rejections, yes.. but we have all had rejections.  It is a journey, only you can take the first step.

Hey, I mean, it would certainly be wonderful. I just really can't see it at this point. I really blew it by not being able to get started younger. I simply don't connect with women "romantically", I don't develop attraction in a normal way that can ever work in the real world, and even once I get past that, there's still the fact that I haven't even been able to get started with even the most basic parts of dating. Like I said, if I haven't been able to get started by now, I simply don't think the odds are very good for it to happen ever. I would love to be proven wrong by the "powers that be", but for now, I think it would be most wise if I prepare for my future under the assumption that I will be spending it alone.

[nospam99]

For folks that haven't had teenagers for the last 20 years or ever, the 'trading card games' Inflikted refers to may be Magic the Gathering (MTG), Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, or something similar. Bridge is passe. Tournaments are held in game stores and at comic and sci-fi/fantasy conventions. The games are very social BUT ... intensively competitive (testosterone city). The vast majority of players are male (three sons here) and most of the minority female players are either there to support their bfs or very goth.

[Inflikted]

22 minutes ago, nospam99 said:

For folks that haven't had teenagers for the last 20 years or ever, the 'trading card games' Inflikted refers to may be Magic the Gathering (MTG), Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, or something similar. Bridge is passe. Tournaments are held in game stores and at comic and sci-fi/fantasy conventions. The games are very social BUT ... intensively competitive (testosterone city). The vast majority of players are male (three sons here) and most of the minority female players are either there to support their bfs or very goth.

Fairly accurate (though I'd be seeking the more casual, less competitive groups), but for what it's worth, it's not an idea meant to meet women, just a way to indulge in a hobby I enjoy and meet people in general.

[Azincourt]

28 minutes ago, nospam99 said:

For folks that haven't had teenagers for the last 20 years or ever, the 'trading card games' Inflikted refers to may be Magic the Gathering (MTG), Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, or something similar. Bridge is passe. Tournaments are held in game stores and at comic and sci-fi/fantasy conventions. The games are very social BUT ... intensively competitive (testosterone city). The vast majority of players are male (three sons here) and most of the minority female players are either there to support their bfs or very goth.

That's cool, when the guy's a teenager, but I don't really see why a 30 year old man would want with spending his time playing card games with kids half his age. Besides, those games are incredibly old, I remember when I was a teenager pokemon arrived in the west along with all those other games, and everyone was crazy about it. Weird as heck to see adult men in their 30s and 40s still play that kind of games, that are meant for young players.

Quote

Hey, I mean, it would ertainly be wonderful. I just really can't see it at this point. I really blew it by not being able to get started younger. I simply don't connect with women "romantically", I don't develop attraction in a normal way that can ever work in the real world, and even once I get past that, there's still the fact that I haven't even been able to get started with even the most basic parts of dating. Like I said, if I haven't been able to get started by now, I simply don't think the odds are very good for it to happen ever. I would love to be proven wrong by the "powers that be", but for now, I think it would be most wise if I prepare for my future under the assumption that I will be spending it alone.

What do you mean you don't develop attraction in a normal way?

You're asexual? You don't have sexual urges? There's plenty of women like that around for you to meet, or are you that other sex orientation, pansexual? You're attracted to a woman's personality and all that? Nothing wrong with that, you just need to meet many women and you'll end up coming across someone who is also like you.

Hire a dating coach.

Tell him about your situation. Don't be ashamed, those guys have heard much worse. Take your time, go slowly about it. Let things unfold in due time.  

[nospam99]

@azincourt. There are as many or more adult 'gamers' as kids. Game stores have been killed, at least temporarily, by covid restrictions. But a 'typical' day in the game store would have several tables of trading card games with half kids and half adults and a smaller number of tables with mostly adults playing either role-playing games or table-top war games. D&D itself grew out of table-top war games played by adults. I was not the only sexagenarian playing D&D and Pathfinder (a D&D variant). My parents' generation played bridge. My generation plays D&D. Our kids divide their play, some D&D, some online gaming (WoW and various team shooters), and some trading card games - MTG is huge.

The other players in the D&D game I was playing when covid shut us down were a family of four: mom, dad, and their male/female teenage twins. Our Gamemaster was a young man in his twenties or thirties whose day job was traveling around administering hospital information systems.

Edited September 7, 2020 by nospam99

[Inflikted]

10 minutes ago, Azincourt said:

That's cool, when the guy's a teenager, but I don't really see why a 30 year old man would want with spending his time playing card games with kids half his age. Besides, those games are incredibly old, I remember when I was a teenager pokemon arrived in the west along with all those other games, and everyone was crazy about it. Weird as heck to see adult men in their 30s and 40s still play that kind of games, that are meant for young players.

My game of choice tends to skew a bit older, in my age bracket. In any case, I like nerdy stuff. Who cares.

11 minutes ago, Azincourt said:

What do you mean you don't develop attraction in a normal way?

It's been suggested to me that I may be "demisexual". In my experience, I tend to fall for girls I've known for a long time that I feel I have a good bond with. That's how I am with my friend now, and that's how I became attracted to my last crush eight years ago.

But, it's a situation that doesn't tend to work in the real world, and I get that. Even then, it's not particularly feasible, in that needing months or even years just to get to the point of attraction enough to start dating isn't exactly a very time sensitive way to find someone.

I'm sure there are "demisexual communities" I could look into, I just... honestly kind of hate having these tendencies, period, because it's just too time consuming and the odds of actually finding someone this way are incredibly low no matter what.

[Azincourt]

8 minutes ago, Inflikted said:

My game of choice tends to skew a bit older, in my age bracket. In any case, I like nerdy stuff. Who cares.

It's been suggested to me that I may be "demisexual". In my experience, I tend to fall for girls I've known for a long time that I feel I have a good bond with. That's how I am with my friend now, and that's how I became attracted to my last crush eight years ago.

But, it's a situation that doesn't tend to work in the real world, and I get that. Even then, it's not particularly feasible, in that needing months or even years just to get to the point of attraction enough to start dating isn't exactly a very time sensitive way to find someone.

I'm sure there are "demisexual communities" I could look into, I just... honestly kind of hate having these tendencies, period, because it's just too time consuming and the odds of actually finding someone this way are incredibly low no matter what.

Yeah, but I can see where you're coming from, but you're not going to be meeting all that many women in venues made for men to play card games at, and the very few women who attend those places are usually there with their boyfriends.

Bro, there's nothing wrong with you. I'm bisexual. There's plenty of people who look at me weird when they see me with a woman one day and a man the other day, but I live my life and I don't bother anyone, so what does it matter. It doesn't matter how long it takes for you to get what you want. You aren't on a schedule. Just go out there(after covid 19 is done and dead) and then meet women, and yes, there are demisexual communities aplenty online, great way to meet women there and then see if something ''in real life'' has the potential to start.

 

[Inflikted]

53 minutes ago, Azincourt said:

Bro, there's nothing wrong with you. I'm bisexual. There's plenty of people who look at me weird when they see me with a woman one day and a man the other day, but I live my life and I don't bother anyone, so what does it matter. It doesn't matter how long it takes for you to get what you want. You aren't on a schedule. Just go out there(after covid 19 is done and dead) and then meet women, and yes, there are demisexual communities aplenty online, great way to meet women there and then see if something ''in real life'' has the potential to start.

Yeah, it's just frustrating, because in the last ten years, I've only been attracted to two women, one of which rejected my advances, and the other being my current friend who I probably can't ever explore it with.

Regardless of what avenues I have to explore to find anyone, it doesn't seem like I'll get to experience that kind of fulfillment any time soon, and given how "obscure" my sense of attraction is, it's reasonable that I may never truly get to experience that altogether.

[mark clemson]

Speaking generally, I'd say it's possible to move from the "friend zone" into a relationship if/when a woman begins to trust and eventually develop feelings for you. That's if you started out as actual friends.

IF you started with a romantic overture and were "friend-zoned" by her, then most likely not.

I don't know how much bearing that has on your specific case, Inflikted, as you seem to have a lot of issues in the romantic arena. "Pushing for more" if she hasn't given some genuine signs of interest in taking it further is unlikely IMO to do more than end the friendship.

[Inflikted]

10 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

Speaking generally, I'd say it's possible to move from the "friend zone" into a relationship if/when a woman begins to trust and eventually develop feelings for you. That's if you started out as actual friends.

IF you started with a romantic overture and were "friend-zoned" by her, then most likely not.

Yeah, that second part isn't how it was for me and her. She was already in the relationship that recently ended when I first met her, so she was unavailable from day one, I knew that, and I never made any advances or anything like that. We just built up a good friendship after meeting each other.

11 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

"Pushing for more" if she hasn't given some genuine signs of interest in taking it further is unlikely IMO to do more than end the friendship.

Well, what would "genuine signs of interest" look like? If they're there, I certainly wouldn't want to miss them. Honestly, there's things she's said and done over the last few years that sometimes make me think it could go either way, but I can never really be sure, and I try not to read too much into any one specific thing. In any case, given that the relationship is still very newly ended, I doubt she'd show "signs of interest" this soon. But again, if she does end up showing them, I'd like to be aware of what they would look like, so I don't miss it.

[Azincourt]

Quote

Speaking generally, I'd say it's possible to move from the "friend zone" into a relationship if/when a woman begins to trust and eventually develop feelings for you. That's if you started out as actual friends.

It happens, but it doesn't happen as often as many men who are in the friendzone would like it to happen.

Quote

Yeah, that second part isn't how it was for me and her. She was already in the relationship that recently ended when I first met her, so she was unavailable from day one, I knew that, and I never made any advances or anything like that. We just built up a good friendship after meeting each other.

Wait. You had feelings for her the very moment you met her for the first time, but you still went ahead and remained as platonic friends? Or am I reading this wrong? Or was you pretty chill and lacking romantic feelings for her, but over time you developed them?

Quote

Well, what would "genuine signs of interest" look like? If they're there, I certainly wouldn't want to miss them. Honestly, there's things she's said and done over the last few years that sometimes make me think it could go either way, but I can never really be sure, and I try not to read too much into any one specific thing. In any case, given that the relationship is still very newly ended, I doubt she'd show "signs of interest" this soon. But again, if she does end up showing them, I'd like to be aware of what they would look like, so I don't miss it.

From the Psychology today page:

The Many Subtle Ways Women Signal Romantic Interest. It's often women, not men, who initiate the first approach.

Quote

What are the nonverbal behaviors that women engage in to signal their interest in a particular man? Here was a typical scenario: A woman walks into a bar with some of her friends. She engages in a long, steady scan around the room, ultimately fixing her gaze on a man she finds attractive. Gaze is important here, and a key component of signaling interest. The woman maintains an extended gaze at the man until he notices her, she smiles, then she breaks the gaze, returns the gaze again, smiles, and again breaks the gaze. A woman interested in a man then might primp or self-groom, fixing her hair a bit, adopting an open body posture (e.g., arms away from the body), or starting to orient her body to face him. 

Quote

Once you know to look for these behaviors, you can see them all the time. Two newly acquainted people who are sexually interested in each other will show increasing synchrony in their gestures and movements, light touching (especially by men), smiling, leaning forward, and head tilting. Women may even notice belatedly that they find someone attractive by observing themselves self-grooming a little when an attractive man enters the room.

Quote

What’s really intriguing, however, is that although most women could describe some aspect of this signaling process, men often were unaware that they had in fact been signaled by the woman they approached—thinking instead that they simply had the initiative to approach an attractive woman.

Over time you develop as a man a sort of radar that let's you easily pick-up on the signals of interest women are sending you. There are women who are vocal about what they want, either by approaching you and saying they want to have sex with you, but those women aren't as common as the women who are much more quiet about signaling a man about wanting to get to know him better, so what you need to do is to head out to places where women hang out at, after covid-19 is killed off, and then just wait for a woman to be sending those signals. Then you approach her.

As for your friend, I dunno man. I get the feeling you got no chance with her and that you're wasting your time crushing on someone who is in love with the man she's in a relationship with. 

[Inflikted]

13 minutes ago, Azincourt said:

Wait. You had feelings for her the very moment you met her for the first time, but you still went ahead and remained as platonic friends? Or am I reading this wrong? Or was you pretty chill and lacking romantic feelings for her, but over time you developed them?

No, I didn't have feelings for her when we first met. Granted, there's a good chance that those feelings developed along the way subconsciously, but I was never aware of them on a conscious level until just recently. When we first met, I knew very soon that she was in a relationship, and on a conscious level, I never thought about her that way. I just enjoyed the friendship we were having together.

15 minutes ago, Azincourt said:

As for your friend, I dunno man. I get the feeling you got no chance with her and that you're wasting your time crushing on someone who is in love with the man she's in a relationship with. 

Well, they're no longer in a relationship as of a few weeks ago, and from what I gather, she's been unhappy for several months at least. Perhaps longer, considering it would appear that the issues that caused their breakup were reoccurring quarrels they've had around this time every year for at least the last 2-3 years. I think, on a basic level, she did love him, and until she fully moves on, that basic love will linger on, but I get the sense that she's probably been "falling out of love" with him for the last year or so.

To be honest, the last year of my friendship with both of them has been... strange. Up until about this time last year, she and I felt a bit closer; she would have deep discussions with me about life and stuff, and she often vented to me about her relationship and things of that nature. Around this time last year, they were in a bad place, and she was venting to me about it, and she told me then that she was thinking of endings things with him. But, then the next time I saw them, everything seemed fine, and I never saw any signs of trouble after that. But I did notice that, after that, she seemed to take a step back, and me and him kinda started spending more time together than me and her (or even the three of us together). For the last year, it's felt like that; she and I no longer were having discussions about stuff, she never vented to me about him or anything else anymore, and while she was always happy to see me, it's felt like she always just kinda wanted to fade into the background while me and him hung out. I've kinda been missing the time I got to spend with her for a while, now, even before they split up.

And that's a big reason why I was so shocked when they actually broke up, because she was always so vocal to me about their issues in the past. But she never told me anything was going on, on her end, so when they told me that they ended things, it came completely out of nowhere for me. But, looking back, I've been wondering now if that "distance" that seemed to come up between me and her over the last year was more a matter of her growing unhappy with him (who was spending a lot of time with me) than anything else.

Even now, it's felt a little strange chatting with her via text, because she's been talking to me in a way where it's almost like she's acting like he doesn't exist, or never existed at all. And she seems happy and upbeat, but I can't tell if that's her putting on a happy face for my benefit, or if she's really just in a good place now that she's out of the relationship. Like, I had even asked her what day he was officially moving out and leaving the state, and she didn't even answer me for days, then she finally answered me, but quickly changed the subject and invited me to a thing for next week.

Either way, that's not to insinuate that I think any of this "means anything" for my chances with her, but this whole last year certainly hasn't felt like what I'd call a "friend zone". Aside from some initial frustration immediately after the breakup, she hasn't vented to me about her relationship or had deep discussions with me about anything for the last year, and it felt like there's been some degree of distance between us this last year. But she still very much wants me around in her life, and I do think we'll rekindle our friendship over time. I dunno. This last year of my friendship with her and him has just felt weird, and now that they've broken up, I just wonder if her growing unhappiness was perhaps the reason why it felt weird.

[mark clemson]

⬆️  as per Azincourt, I agree it can be subtle and take a little reading in + does vary by woman.

Of course, when they start talking about how they're "so tired of having this chastity belt on my finger" then it's a bit less subtle, ha ha.

4 hours ago, Inflikted said:

Well, what would "genuine signs of interest" look like?