Wife cheating breaking her promise

[Tpm]

Hello all

last year my wife of 20 years had a torrid emotional affair that almost broke up our marriage, at one point she was planning to leave me if all went well with them.

anyway I found out and that put a stop to it.

we did a little counseling , my wife begged for forgiveness and said she didn’t know what she was doing (blamed it all on menopause)

I have recently just found out she has been contacting him through her personal email and WhatsApp account for the last 5 months.

he is still very suggestive in what he says to her but she is not leading him on in her responses.

what bothers me is the fact that she keeps replying to him and tonight she changed her WhatsApp photo (one where she is in her bikini looking very sexy)and then sent him a message re his Tinder profile.

now all this has happened after she promised me she would never be in contact with the man again.

So every time I’ve brought him up over the past 5 months she has never once said he has made contact with her.

 

advice pls, what would you do?

[schlumpy]

You have to give her consequences. No consequences equals no change in behavior.

Counseling will not work when she is still in the affair. You are just wasting your money. Counseling for you is not a waste.

You have to force her into true remorse and that means that she has to believe she is going to lose you. If that doesn't change her outlook then she's only hanging around until she can find the right man to exit with while you pay the bills.

Don't let her make you plan B.

Force her hand while you still have a card to play.

[Tpm]

I think I am going to leave her!

[DKT3]

That would be wise. 

 

[schlumpy]

7 hours ago, Tpm said:

I think I am going to leave her!

Is she aware that you know she's been lying?

Are children involved?

You do, in my opinion, have enough evidence to leave her. If you need to understand the scope of her activities purchase several voice activated recorders and hide them in places where she makes phone calls. Under the drivers seat of her car would be good place. Use industrial grade velcro with a sticky side to secure the VAR and to make it accessible. Test the VAR to make sure it doesn't make noise and use tape to cover up any indicator lighting.

There are laws about recording people without their consent that vary from state to state so I'm cautioning you to NEVER tell her where your information is coming from. The VAR information is for you only and is not to be shared. 

[Tpm]

I wouldn’t use recorders etc, I have all the evidence I need from her phone

wr have 2 grown children that have already left home.

i need to confront her about it and then leave.

[schlumpy]

Talk to a lawyer first before leaving the home. It could put you in a bad position if you are planning divorce. 

She is the one creating the problem. Why not ask her to leave?

I think you need a well thought out plan that is goal oriented before you drop the bomb on her.

If reconciliation still in your thoughts, the expose her to family and friends. If you can find out who her affair partner is and he is married, expose him as well. That the quickest way to blow it up.

[Tpm]

Nope I’m done and I’m leaving.

i would like to get a bit more Ammunition firs

[elaine567]

5 minutes ago, Tpm said:

i would like to get a bit more Ammunition firs

What for exactly?
For her? She already knows she is still in contact with him.
For a lawyer? Adultery in most places makes no difference whatsoever to the divorce settlement.

[BaileyB]

The first time it happens, shame on her. 
the second time it happens, shame on you. 

That’s the saying. You were kind enough after you caught her the first time to give her a second chance. She squandered it. Don’t make the same mistake again. 

I would absolutely file for divorce. I don’t think you need any more information. You don’t have to justify your decision any more than you’ve caught her twice behaving very inappropriately with another man. That’s it, that’s all. 

Edited September 7, 2020 by BaileyB

[d0nnivain]

It's an emotional affair, not a physical one.  You can leave if that is your choice but I don't know that would be my choice for just talking even talking behind my back when she promised not to. 

What do you want "more ammunition" for?  Most places are no fault divorce.  It doesn't matter to the court if somebody cheated.  You still get divorced for irreconcilable differences & the money is still split equitably with no consideration for cheating.   So if you want out, get out & stop digging.  

[Blind-Sided]

10 hours ago, Tpm said:

I think I am going to leave her!

Unfortunatly.... that is probably the best thing.  She has proven herself to be a lair, and untrustworthy.  I'm sorry for what has happened to your marriage. 

Edited September 7, 2020 by Blind-Sided

[mark clemson]

Since you have decided to divorce, be aware that in most places in the US you can get free 1/2 hour consults - so you can get many questions answered (saving a few hundred bucks) as well as shop around a bit for a lawyer you like.

Consider asking about the impact of infidelity on divorce and settlements. IF you live in one of the relatively few places where infidelity has an impact, then you may need to be able to present court-admissible evidence. This is something you could ask a lawyer about.

For myself, I'd try to be careful and smart with even a lawyer I like. IMO some may try to manipulate you into an extended court battle with motions and counter-motions etc, for the same end result that you could get by going to negotiation and following local law (and often you actually DO end up going to negotiation and following local law). Meanwhile they get paid the entire time for this. Feeling "vindicated" at $300 an hour may not be worth it in hindsight, so unless you've got gobs of money to waste, consider trying to stick with the basics.

While this is NOT a recommendation, there are a few states where you may be able to sue an affair partner in conjunction with the divorce (known as "alienation of affection"). I'm not sure if "only" an EA counts for that sort of thing, but you could consider asking a lawyer about this as well. I believe this works both ways and so IF the OM divorced, it's conceivable he might attempt to sue your wife as well. I generally question the wisdom of these things as one can theoretically spend gobs of one's own money in a somewhat sterile effort to "stick it to them" via the court system and/or, if they don't have much money, trying to squeeze blood out of a rock.

Edited September 7, 2020 by mark clemson

[Azincourt]

Don't be all vengenful and wrathful. There is no point.  Just move on with your life, get a divorce, cut off all contact ,and never talk to her again, and get a good lawyer so you don't end up losing half of what you own plus half the house, dunno if cheaters are still entitled to booty and loot from the remnants of their ruined marriage, but hey capitalism and all, can never be too sure.

Edited September 7, 2020 by Azincourt

[amerikajin]

A lot of time people want to speed decisions up in situations like this, but it's better to slow things down. I know you're pissed - you have every right to be. But I would follow some the suggestions to start planning your moves (from the divorce process to what you want out of the relationship,, whatever is left of it).

First of all, did you ever get a clear explanation as to why she is looking for someone outside your relationship? Did she ever tell you why? Was it a lack of sex? Did she say that you're not attending to her needs? I know you said she blamed it on menopause - is that it? If that's all she's got, that's lame. But encourage her to be forthright and come out if she has anything to say. Understand: whatever she says doesn't make cheating right, and I agree that emotional affairs are a form of cheating. However, it's also important to understand what's on her mind, even if she's wrong. I just don't want you to have any regrets later, that's all.

But yeah, there's no question that she has crossed this line more than once and it's behavior that cannot continue. Maybe consider a short retreat or trial separation? Maybe take a short personal weekend vacation alone to clear your head (having the house to herself might make her think, too).

 

[amerikajin]

2 hours ago, mark clemson said:

Since you have decided to divorce, be aware that in most places in the US you can get free 1/2 hour consults - so you can get many questions answered (saving a few hundred bucks) as well as shop around a bit for a lawyer you like.

Consider asking about the impact of infidelity on divorce and settlements. IF you live in one of the relatively few places where infidelity has an impact, then you may need to be able to present court-admissible evidence. This is something you could ask a lawyer about.

For myself, I'd try to be careful and smart with even a lawyer I like. IMO some may try to manipulate you into an extended court battle with motions and counter-motions etc, for the same end result that you could get by going to negotiation and following local law (and often you actually DO end up going to negotiation and following local law). Meanwhile they get paid the entire time for this. Feeling "vindicated" at $300 an hour may not be worth it in hindsight, so unless you've got gobs of money to waste, consider trying to stick with the basics.

While this is NOT a recommendation, there are a few states where you may be able to sue an affair partner in conjunction with the divorce (known as "alienation of affection"). I'm not sure if "only" an EA counts for that sort of thing, but you could consider asking a lawyer about this as well. I believe this works both ways and so IF the OM divorced, it's conceivable he might attempt to sue your wife as well. I generally question the wisdom of these things as one can theoretically spend gobs of one's own money in a somewhat sterile effort to "stick it to them" via the court system and/or, if they don't have much money, trying to squeeze blood out of a rock.

This is really good advice, IMO.

Before springing divorce on her, I'd do some research first. Find out how to minimize your costs of divorce. The cheapest type of divorce is a collaborative mediation in which both parties agree ahead of time (100%) how they will split assets. That is also kinda rare, and it's really rare in situations where one person is already stepping outside the marriage with someone else. Emotions have a way of creeping into the divorce process.

The next best thing is probably a collaborative divorce with minor differences that get resolved between your legal firm and hers. Pro tip: get her to agree to sit down (or via email if that's not possible) on how you're going to split up assets. Also, gather all of your financial information on your own - don't send any of that to your attorney, as they will charge you. Try to shop around for your attorney and get them to tell you what you're going to be charged for work or tasks performed in advance.

The worst thing either of you can do - and get this through her head as well - is to hire a "bulldog" attorney. They will NOT be able to get anything extra for clients unless their ex has done something like committed adultery. While your wife my have possibly committed adultery, it's probably a waste of time trying to shake her down for money. Just get the divorce over and done with.

That being said, divorce is mentally and financially draining. If there's any hope at all of resolving differences, try that first. But if it were me, I'd probably take a little personal vacation from the home for a weekend or even a full week. Not a trip to Vegas or anything, but just maybe time in a cabin or beach hotel (while being safe with COVID and all). Maybe get some time alone and clear your head.

Edited September 7, 2020 by amerikajin

[d0nnivain]

43 minutes ago, amerikajin said:

The worst thing either of you can do - and get this through her head as well - is to hire a "bulldog" attorney. They will NOT be able to get anything extra for clients unless their ex has done something like committed adultery. 

In a no-fault divorce state you don't get anything extra EVER when you break up.  Assets are split equitably according to financial contribution & need.  Fault does not enter into the equation.  

Assume that the financial split will be 1/3 to you. 1/3 to your EX & the 2 lawyers will split the other 1/3.  If you fight & are obstinate, it will be 1/4 to you; 1/4 to your EX  & 1/2 to the  lawyers so all your digging for more ammunition will backfire on you.  

[Lotsgoingon]

I' m confused here. You wife had an emotional affair? You mean a close bond without sex? And you're going to divorce her for that? Seems to me that an emotional affair, as hurtful as it is, still leaves plenty of room for healing the relationship. So I am right to think that she did not get physical with this guy?

The answer--whether the affair was emotional or emotional and physical--changes the entire calculation of what is going on and how you should react.

BTW: are you spying on her with some software you dropped on her phone without her knowledge? That's not a good step. I wonder if you yourself are avoiding the real work you guys need to do as a couple ... by simply sitting back and spying on her. 

 

[major_merrick]

PLAN this first, don't just do a kneejerk reaction.

If you want to leave, get things in order.  Hide assets, keep as much as you can from this woman.  Get documents that "prove" that she already got "her half" financially.  It isn't about what's equitable, it is about what's right.  Those who mess up the relationship shouldn't walk away with all your stuff.  Only once you have done this can you proceed without losing everything. 

Once ready, pack up some of her stuff, leave it outside the door.  Change the locks.  Have some kind of restraining order drawn up by an attorney to keep her away from you and your house. 

You've been betrayed.  So....no harm in being vindictive or wrathful. 

[d0nnivain]

21 minutes ago, major_merrick said:

 Hide assets, keep as much as you can from this woman.  Get documents that "prove" that she already got "her half" financially.  It isn't about what's equitable, it is about what's right. 

Do this at your own risk.  If she gets a competent financial accountant & discovers the assets you have hidden, a judge could refer the matter to a prosecutor or at least divest you of all the assets you hid.  

Remember she is TALKING to somebody else.  That may give you reasons to want out of the marriage but in the grand scheme of marital hurts it doesn't tip the Richter scale 

Edited September 7, 2020 by d0nnivain

[Woggle]

See a good lawyer and find out the best path to getting yourself out of this marriage in one piece. Don't do anything that can be turned back on you.

[Zona]

I disagree with people who say that since you don't think it went physical (even though it very well may have) that you should just sweep it under the rug. NO FREAKING WAY! I doubt they have ever been on the receiving end of betrayal.  She's a cheater and a liar. Get your ducks lined up (get a shark lawyer and follow the advice given), continue to gather information about her activities, and then have her served when you are ready. 

Best of luck, and sorry you are going through this. It sucks.

Edited September 8, 2020 by Zona

[amerikajin]

12 hours ago, d0nnivain said:

Do this at your own risk.  If she gets a competent financial accountant & discovers the assets you have hidden, a judge could refer the matter to a prosecutor or at least divest you of all the assets you hid.  

Remember she is TALKING to somebody else.  That may give you reasons to want out of the marriage but in the grand scheme of marital hurts it doesn't tip the Richter scale 

Agreed, I wouldn't hide any assets. That would piss off a judge right quick.

[d0nnivain]

8 hours ago, Zona said:

I disagree with people who say that since you don't think it went physical (even though it very well may have) that you should just sweep it under the rug. NO FREAKING WAY! I doubt they have ever been on the receiving end of betrayal.  She's a cheater and a liar.

I wasn't advocating that anything be swept under the rug.  I said that because she was only talking to the OM & it wasn't physical that I would be inclined to try to work through things.  That's vastly different from ignoring her bad behavior.   

IMO at this moment her biggest failure is lying to her husband, the OP, about her on-going interactions with this OM.  For me it would be easier to forgive the conversations & alleged emotional investment then it would the lies told to me repeatedly.  

[BaileyB]

13 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

I wasn't advocating that anything be swept under the rug.  I said that because she was only talking to the OM & it wasn't physical that I would be inclined to try to work through things. 

Respectfully, he tried that once. It didn’t work. 

I appreciate what you are saying, but I wouldn’t be inclined to give her any more chances...

Edited September 8, 2020 by BaileyB