Reconciliation talk failed, should I try to save this friendship or not?

[CaraGrace]

So this is a sequel to a thread I posted before regarding a friend who keeps making rude/passive aggressive comments to me.

Yesterday I decided to get things straight instead of holding grudge and being resentful, eventually distant from her while she may not notice or reflect on her behavioral problems.

I took 2 examples of which I felt offended/hurt by what she said to me, to explain to her why I felt it was problematic. But since I didn't want to hurt her feelings and sound like I was saying it's all her fault, I started by admitting that I was a very sensitive person who tends to overthink. So perhaps my sensitivity and overthinking have made me more upset by her remarks/behaviours then necessary. By saying so I just wanted to make her feel less offended, and let her know that I was not saying the problem between us was 100% hers - I started the conversation by taking half of the responsibility (I'm a sensitive person), and hope she would meet me halfway and have some reflection herself, acknowledging her occasional lack of social skill, rudeness and passive aggression - so that we would improve the way we communicate and sustain our friendship.

The first one was when she complained straight to me about her seating on my wedding last year, saying something like, "What? I can't believe you have assigned this seat to me, it's just unbelievable!" - which, to me, was a blatantly rude comment and attitude, and an example of her being totally inconsiderate, saying the wrong thing on the wrong occasion, and never thinks through before she speaks. And that as my bridesmaid, while she was told about all the hiccups and the sudden changes that I had to face and handle (e.g. the sudden withdrawal of over 12 guests only 10 days before my wedding since they couldn't fly to my country due to some situations), she has never shown sympathy nor tried to understand why there was a sudden change on seating arrangement (after cutting down tables and rearrangement of seats), but instead blaming on and aggravating me.

Her reply was simply saying that it was just some "throwaway remarks" and that she wasn't blaming me. She said I was being too sensitive and taken it too seriously. 

Then she went on to say, "Since you didn't come to my wedding, you have no idea what kind of situations I also faced on my wedding... (went on with her own story)"

Good that she brought this up AGAIN, this is exactly the second example I had to show her about how oblivious she is of how her passive aggression.

I told her that, in the past 6 years she has been repeatedly throwing remarks on how disappointed she was and how irresponsible I was in breaking my promise, that I didn't come back to her wedding because I chose to extend my working holiday and expedition in another country at that time. Every time she said it, she compared me with our mutual friend, who went on that trip with me but made it to her wedding, saying she was such a good friend while I ate my words. Although her tone sounded like she was only poking fun at me, the fact that she has on and off bringing this up several times over the years and still keeps saying so 6 years after the wedding makes me feel that she was not only joking about, but actually holding grudge and not being able to get over with it after all these times. I told her I was now making one more apology for not showing up, and that I wanted her to understand clearly the reason why I chose my expedition over her wedding was because it was a once-in-a-lifetime journey and dream that I couldn't gave up and wanted to prolong as far as possible. And I hope she would respect my choice, and let it go since it has been too long a time for her to dwell on a past event. It's a personal hangup and she had to acknowledge and get over with.

She replied by saying that what I was pouring out scared her, and made her feel that she had to start being very careful speaking to me because I was being a snowflake, taking her "throwaway remarks" far too seriously. She said she didn't dare to comment on that, saying actually she was only praising our friend who attended her wedding, since there were many of her other friends who were also out of town and didn't attend her wedding besides me. And that she emphasized she didn't care I didn't come, nor was she taking her wedding seriously at all (which our other friend and I both doubt because we both witnessed how much she cared about her wedding during the planning period, that she had been very meticulous on every aspect from makeup, gown to venue). She said she wasn't even eager to get married at that time, and so she was very carefree about it and didn't mind if her closest friends were all not showing up due to clashing with their other plans. She said we were all grown-ups and people failed to show up didn't bother her a bit.

Then again, she said I was being too sensitive and that scared her. She never meant what I thought she meant in any words she said or anything she did. To me, she wasn't meeting me halfway, but, since I admitted my sensitivity at the very beginning, she just took this against me. While I suggested that our problem may be 50% of my sensitivity and 50% of her being an a**h***, she simply concluded that it was a complete 100% of my sensitivity and none of her problem. She even suggested me to consult a psychiatrist if I found my overthinking start to adversely affect my daily life.

I was completely speechless, disappointed and WOW! I mean, wow she just turned everything against me and eluded all the responsibility! Just like that! I felt it was such a waste of time and kindness to even trying to be honest and get things straight with her. 

Does anyone has any thought on it? I would probably remain acquaintance with her. I mean we have mutual friends and it's hard to just cut her off. Is it worth it to try one more time reasoning with her? I'd like some advice. Thanks!

Edited September 12, 2020 by CaraGrace

[Wiseman2]

Just let go. You're not going to change her.

Stop having these excessive talks. She doesn't want to get into it with you.

You're too busy trying to get a specific metered response.

People are who they are. If you have grown apart, let it be.

Edited September 12, 2020 by Wiseman2

[Acacia98]

1 hour ago, CaraGrace said:

So this is a sequel to a thread I posted before regarding a friend who keeps making rude/passive aggressive comments to me.

(...)

Does anyone has any thought on it? I would probably remain acquaintance with her. I mean we have mutual friends and it's hard to just cut her off. Is it worth it to try one more time reasoning with her? I'd like some advice. Thanks!

I'm glad you went ahead and tried to talk to her. Because now you can't deny that this is who she is. 

It's okay to let her go. She's not really your friend. She's a passive aggressive person who doesn't much like you.

Edited September 12, 2020 by Acacia98

[ShyViolet]

8 hours ago, CaraGrace said:

she simply concluded that it was a complete 100% of my sensitivity and none of her problem. She even suggested me to consult a psychiatrist if I found my overthinking start to adversely affect my daily life.

I was completely speechless, disappointed and WOW! I mean, wow she just turned everything against me and eluded all the responsibility! Just like that! I felt it was such a waste of time and kindness to even trying to be honest and get things straight with her. 

Does anyone has any thought on it? I would probably remain acquaintance with her. I mean we have mutual friends and it's hard to just cut her off. Is it worth it to try one more time reasoning with her? I'd like some advice. Thanks!

NO it's not worth one more try!!  Wow, you have a lot more patience than I do.  I don't understand why you put so much energy into this person who clearly doesn't care about your feelings and isn't being a good friend at all.  What is the point?

You tried to have a talk with her about the friendship to solve the problems.  And in that talk, she just displayed the rude behavior even more, and said that it's all YOUR problem, and even told you that you need to see a psychiatrist.  Are you kidding?  If I were you, I would never waste my time with this person again.  If you can't 100% cut her off because you have mutual friends, then just say "hi" to her when you have to see her, but that's it.  Don't consider her a friend anymore.  You have to have some self-respect and not allow people in your life who are just disrespectful.

[CaraGrace]

On 9/12/2020 at 5:20 PM, Wiseman2 said:

Just let go. You're not going to change her.

Stop having these excessive talks. She doesn't want to get into it with you.

You're too busy trying to get a specific metered response.

People are who they are. If you have grown apart, let it be.

Yes I have given up on her... it's a relieve for me too, it has been just too frustrating and draining to be her friend

[CaraGrace]

On 9/12/2020 at 6:30 PM, Acacia98 said:

I'm glad you went ahead and tried to talk to her. Because now you can't deny that this is who she is. 

It's okay to let her go. She's not really your friend. She's a passive aggressive person who doesn't much like you.

Yes that's right. Her responds have proven she's a toxic person to be around.

[CaraGrace]

On 9/13/2020 at 1:55 AM, ShyViolet said:

NO it's not worth one more try!!  Wow, you have a lot more patience than I do.  I don't understand why you put so much energy into this person who clearly doesn't care about your feelings and isn't being a good friend at all.  What is the point?

You tried to have a talk with her about the friendship to solve the problems.  And in that talk, she just displayed the rude behavior even more, and said that it's all YOUR problem, and even told you that you need to see a psychiatrist.  Are you kidding?  If I were you, I would never waste my time with this person again.  If you can't 100% cut her off because you have mutual friends, then just say "hi" to her when you have to see her, but that's it.  Don't consider her a friend anymore.  You have to have some self-respect and not allow people in your life who are just disrespectful.

Yes, she asked me to continue to accept and appreciate her straightforwardness (just because I mentioned I appreciate her straightforwardness only to make her feel better, but I also said straightforwardness has two sides and so it's not 100% a good trait - but she completely ignored this part). Even if she is often overly straightforward, I have to accept that because IT'S HER! This is the way she is and she can't change that. But at the same time she said if I felt offended it's only because I over interpreted her meaning/intention, and asked me to stop over-interpreting her, calling me an "over-interpreter". So it's ok for her to be OVER and she won't change, but it's not ok for me to be OVER and I have to stop doing that to her. This is the moment I truly don't want to be her friend anymore.

[d0nnivain]

If you don't want to be her friend any more give up knowing you tried.  

I wouldn't give up completely in a mean way,  I'd probably still send a holiday card & text her on her birthday & wedding anniversary.  I'd smile & be gracious when I saw her in public or around mutual friends (no need to make them feel awkward or pick sides) but there would be no more meaningful effort to keep the friendship going.  Slowly over time all that will pass too

[CaraGrace]

24 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

If you don't want to be her friend any more give up knowing you tried.  

I wouldn't give up completely in a mean way,  I'd probably still send a holiday card & text her on her birthday & wedding anniversary.  I'd smile & be gracious when I saw her in public or around mutual friends (no need to make them feel awkward or pick sides) but there would be no more meaningful effort to keep the friendship going.  Slowly over time all that will pass too

Yes, this is exactly what I would do, since our mutual friend is actually getting married later this month and we would meet. So Iike you said I would smile and be gracious when I see her, even though I believe she may not since I just realized yesterday that she had deleted all our photos on her instagram. Actually after our first confrontation, I tried to talk to her again and she got even more aggressive and self-defensive, saying that I was saying all these things to her just because I wanted to feel good, and if I didn't like what she said to me, she didn't feel the need to discuss with me anymore. Saying she won't make herself unhappy in order to please anyone (even if I was only asking her to pay attention to her words, while they may seem rude/offensive/inconsiderate sometimes, when she thought she was only poking fun at people or joking). But it's not my problem if she is being so immature and can't take any criticism. 

Edited September 15, 2020 by CaraGrace

[d0nnivain]

1 minute ago, CaraGrace said:

 I just realized yesterday that she had deleted all our photos on her instagram. Actually after our first confrontation, I had talked to her again and she got even more aggressive and self-defensive, saying that I was saying all these things to her just because I wanted to feel good, 

oh good heavens.  Now we have defensive & petty on top of rude.  Do be gracious at the wedding but otherwise just be done.  

[elaine567]

The trouble with old hurts and grievances is that some never let go of them.
The fact you didn't consider her important enough to attend her wedding cut her deep, you can't paper over that.
Yes you had your reasons, but she doesn't see them as  valid.

Her sniping is an attempt to make you hurt as much as she did...
Of course she does not take the criticism because in her mind you need to be apologising not getting all uppity.
To her mind YOU need to be contrite and accept your punishment, as you were the aggressor and in the wrong all those years ago.

[CaraGrace]

37 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

The trouble with old hurts and grievances is that some never let go of them.
The fact you didn't consider her important enough to attend her wedding cut her deep, you can't paper over that.
Yes you had your reasons, but she doesn't see them as  valid.

Her sniping is an attempt to make you hurt as much as she did...
Of course she does not take the criticism because in her mind you need to be apologising not getting all uppity.
To her mind YOU need to be contrite and accept your punishment, as you were the aggressor and in the wrong all those years ago.

But funny thing was, when I invited her to be my bridesmaid on my wedding last year, she was all happy and she enjoyed herself that day. She posted our photos on instagram saying she's happy that the friend she loves most is getting married. I mean if she wants to make me hurt as much as she did, she didn't need to attend my wedding at all, not to mention taking part in my wedding party. Even though she complained about her seating, I think she was having no filter and didn't give a thought about other's feelings when she opened her mouth as always, but not like she was saying that intentionally to hurt me. But somehow I think deep down, there is something that makes her resent me. I don't know if it's competitiveness, jealousy or what... which makes her consciously or unconsciously make belittling, hurtful or mean comments to me.

Like the time when we hung out in her place soon after my wedding, she purposefully went to her bedroom to get my wedding favor and her friend's wedding invitation, both of which had a portrait drawing of the bride & groom on top, showed them to me and said, "Look, both are portrait drawings but why is my friend's more beautifully drawn then yours?" And on the same night when we went out for dinner, she interrupted the conversation and said to my husband, "Wow why do you have so many crow's feet? You are the same age as my husband and he doesn't have that many. What happened to you?" 

I mean it's all these little things, while at the moment she said it I chose to forgive her believing she didn't have bad intention, eventually accumulated and caused me frustration and anger. I excused her by believing she's just having no filter, but when it happened too often I started to wonder if she has a tendency to look for things and chances to belittle me. Many of her remarks involve comparing me to someone else (or comparing my husband to hers in the above mentioned example) to show that I'm inferior. I mean if she didn't do it consciously, then maybe it's in her subconscious that she wants to belittle me... I don't know if I'm overthinking or over-interpreting, but even if she didn't have any bad intention, her words still hurts me. And when I told her so in our 2nd confrontation, she didn't even want to listen and accused me that I was saying all these things to her just because I wanted to feel good, and if I didn't like what she said to me, she didn't feel the need to discuss with me anymore and she won't make herself unhappy in order to please anyone. I don't know I'm very confused. But anyway her reaction to my criticism (which I believe I have tried my best to be as mild as possible and I also took half the blame) has really turned me off from being her friend anymore.

[kismetkismet]

It sounds like she's never got over the fact that you didn't attend her wedding and has no intention of doing so. I understand both why she was hurt by that and why you made that decision, but her repeated digs are pretty childish. 

The tone of your posts make it sound like your resentment may have been to great to get over though anyway. And hers likely was too - I think she likely expected an apology years ago and her passive aggressive comments were her (childish) way of communicating that. Next time i'd recommend bringing it up lightly/casually earlier on, rather than waiting years for the bitterness to stack up (easier said than done, I know). 

[CaraGrace]

21 hours ago, kismetkismet said:

It sounds like she's never got over the fact that you didn't attend her wedding and has no intention of doing so. I understand both why she was hurt by that and why you made that decision, but her repeated digs are pretty childish. 

The tone of your posts make it sound like your resentment may have been to great to get over though anyway. And hers likely was too - I think she likely expected an apology years ago and her passive aggressive comments were her (childish) way of communicating that. Next time i'd recommend bringing it up lightly/casually earlier on, rather than waiting years for the bitterness to stack up (easier said than done, I know). 

It's true that I didn't apologize to her face to face after I was back from the trip, even though I had apologized by text when I told her I wouldn't come back some months before her wedding, and also by a letter that I attached in the gift I sent her on her wedding date. Perhaps a verbal apology came too late. But this time, I started this talk with her, it was exactly me making a formal apology and a clear explanation of my decision back then, hoping she could accept and understand. But instead of saying she has accepted my apology and reasons, she only said I was over-interpreting her and that she has never been upset at me because her wedding was not important to her at all, and she has forgotten what happened on her wedding, completely no memories (can you believe that?).

She was denying everything, saying that if I felt uncomfortable at her remarks then it's only my problem and my overthinking. And she also refused to agree on not bring it up/poking fun at me for breaking my promise again because she is forgetful. She said she may bring it up again, and the reason behind is totally not because she still cares, just because she doesn't remember she has said it before. So that means our conversation is going nowhere. I really have made the effort, but all she did was deny, defense and ask me to accept it.

[kismetkismet]

Wait... what! Does she have some kind of neurological disorder? That does not sound... healthy? Real? 

If she's saying that she reserves the right to hang this over your head forever because she 'can't remember,' then it's not about the apology, so I redact my earlier comments lol. And if she says she doesn't remember her wedding and it wasn't important at all, then it wouldn't come up in conversation so frequently. Very weird. I would definitely keep my distance from the friendship. 

[CaraGrace]

14 hours ago, kismetkismet said:

Wait... what! Does she have some kind of neurological disorder? That does not sound... healthy? Real? 

If she's saying that she reserves the right to hang this over your head forever because she 'can't remember,' then it's not about the apology, so I redact my earlier comments lol. And if she says she doesn't remember her wedding and it wasn't important at all, then it wouldn't come up in conversation so frequently. Very weird. I would definitely keep my distance from the friendship. 

Yes this is the thing that frustrates or confuses me the most. I mean sometimes I'd think is this really my problem? That I'm being too sensitive and tend to overthink and over-interpret people. So if I feel being intentionally attacked by her, it's actually only I misunderstanding her and the blame should be on me. But the fact that she's so contradicting in what she says and does makes me feel it can actually be her problem, that she tends to make up things to avoid admitting some of her intentions, which sometimes are really bad ones.

Another example is, she has been telling me that she wants to migrate to Canada since Jan or Feb last year (some background here, we're Hong Kong people and there has been a very huge political unrest which started last year in June... the situation only gets worse and so in the past 6 months many people have been planning or have already migrated to other countries. But she is the only person I know who began planning for migration even before any protests started). She said "you don't wait to get fire insurance until your house is on fire." She has been very worried and she was also too frightened to go outside when there're protests and riots on the streets (e.g. she kept asking me if she would be able to get home safe after attending my wedding late last year - I called and paid everyone an uber, drove everyone home to their doorstep and so there was actually nothing to worry about). She is absolutely chicken. She's been working on the migration even though she hasn't have a mutual consent with her husband. But at the same time she has always been saying she loves HK and very judgmental about people who don't seem to take actions to protect our homeland and fight against the government. 

The first time she said she wanted to migrate to Canada, I told her that it's perfectly ok because firstly I don't think people have roots, I mean, people can move and live in wherever they want. It's a big big world and there are unlimited possibilities and ways of living one's life, and secondly, we have to admit that we are no saint, we're not revolutionaries nor martyrs, and so when you find it unbearable to stay here, it's ok to start a better life elsewhere. Then she started to give her contrary opinions, saying she believes HK is the best place on earth, and is the most suitable place for HK people to live in. She said she has a good life here - a good and well-paid job, low taxes, convenient way of living etc., all of which she thinks she won't be able to enjoy once she moves to another country. So she is making a very big sacrifice and it's a downgrade in general if she leaves HK. She also said as HK people we should love and protect HK and never give it up. So every time when this topic comes up, it's hard to hold a rational or peaceful conversation with her because we have opposite opinions on whether someone should leave its homeland to start a new life. But actually she is the one who wants to migrate, not me. But she is so eager to prove my points wrong, and implying I'm a bad person because I don't love HK as much as she does. The conversation would go nowhere because there is no logic in what she says. But whatever she says, she just want to make me look like a bad and selfish person because I don't love HK (it's not like I don't love my hometown, but I've lived in another country, I've been travelling a lot, and so I know there is a big world out there and that HK cannot be the BEST - what is the BEST anyway?). I told her if she doesn't see things with an open mind and open heart (just because she has very limited life experience), she is never going to have peace (with herself and with people around her), especially if she really wants and would migrate to another country sooner or later. But she just holds fast to her points and says I'm wrong. 

Is this neurological disorder? I don't know. It just makes me feel like she's just too busy trying to attack me and prove me wrong, so she doesn't care or realize if what she says and does are illogical or contradicting - if it's not my over-interpretation of her meanings and intentions.

Edited September 17, 2020 by CaraGrace

[CaraGrace]

15 hours ago, kismetkismet said:

And if she says she doesn't remember her wedding and it wasn't important at all, then it wouldn't come up in conversation so frequently.

Exactly... If she truly is that forgetful and doesn't care, she wouldn't still remember I ditched her at the first place. Whether or not it's just she forgetting she has already poked fun at me on breaking my promise is completely out of the question, because with her explanation she wouldn't even have poked fun at me for once at the first place! Not to say it's been 6 years!

I wouldn't say she brings it up very frequently, maybe once a year. Like I remember 2 or 3 years ago I was invited to a wedding but the person who's getting married was actually not a very close friend, I only knew him from work, been close for a few months and moved on with our different paths. And somehow, some weeks before his wedding I was feeling a rush of social anxiety, and knowing some other people I know also had a change of plan and told him they couldn't make it, I also made up an excuse for not being able to attend (very bad and wrong to have done so indeed). He was very upset and even told me so very frankly that if I didn't go, he wouldn't be able to invite someone else to replace my seat in such short notice and he couldn't get a refund for my seat and food from the venue. At last I went to his wedding, together with the cash fund I gave him so that he could have his wedding expenses covered. I told this story to my friends, including her, and her reaction was, 'So you made it to his wedding anyways despite you didn't want to and that he's not a close friend, but you didn't attend mine.'

If this was the first thing that came to her head and if she had to make such comparison, she had every right to feel upset at me. But it's also an example of how important she thinks her wedding was and how she would never forget - all of which she keeps denying. And from my perspective, she can't ignore the fact that I wasn't in town when she got married. I had to pay US$1000 return flight tickets to attend her wedding - which was honestly not what I could afford. And I had also sent her gift and cash fund on her wedding date even though I didn't come back. If she's still upset there is really nothing more I can do, or could have done. 

Edited September 17, 2020 by CaraGrace

[Wiseman2]

Why allow yourself to keep going in circles about this? It's so Intense. It seems almost like a long drawn out divorce than simply some friends who have grown apart 

[Watercolors]

On 9/12/2020 at 4:17 AM, CaraGrace said:

Does anyone has any thought on it? I would probably remain acquaintance with her. I mean we have mutual friends and it's hard to just cut her off. Is it worth it to try one more time reasoning with her? I'd like some advice. Thanks!

No, do not reconcile. She is a toxic friend to you. Stop making excuses for her, and explaining and justifying her behavior. 

She is not a good friend to you.

Stop stating that its too hard to cut her off b/c of your mutual friends. Welcome to adulthood. Friendships w/mutual friends in the same circle end, and everyone will choose sides. That happens when couples breakup and divorce. You cannot prevent that fallout. It's human nature to choose sides. If you are holding on to this toxic friendship to hold on to the mutual friends, you are setting yourself up for continued misery.  

End the friendship for both your sakes. You two are NOT compatible as friends. 

It is more a sign of maturity from the person who knows when to draw boundaries for themselves, and end a toxic social relationship. 

You need to learn when to let go, and move on. Not all friendships are meant to last. Here you are, holding on to your expired milk, in denial of the expiration date b/c according to you, the milk is not expired. It tastes bad, and sometimes gives you stomach aches, but dammit, the milk is STILL GOOD. 

No, that milk is expired. Throw it out already!! Buy some new milk!

Edited September 19, 2020 by Watercolors

[CaraGrace]

On 9/20/2020 at 3:22 AM, Watercolors said:

No, do not reconcile. She is a toxic friend to you. Stop making excuses for her, and explaining and justifying her behavior. 

She is not a good friend to you.

Stop stating that its too hard to cut her off b/c of your mutual friends. Welcome to adulthood. Friendships w/mutual friends in the same circle end, and everyone will choose sides. That happens when couples breakup and divorce. You cannot prevent that fallout. It's human nature to choose sides. If you are holding on to this toxic friendship to hold on to the mutual friends, you are setting yourself up for continued misery.  

End the friendship for both your sakes. You two are NOT compatible as friends. 

It is more a sign of maturity from the person who knows when to draw boundaries for themselves, and end a toxic social relationship. 

You need to learn when to let go, and move on. Not all friendships are meant to last. Here you are, holding on to your expired milk, in denial of the expiration date b/c according to you, the milk is not expired. It tastes bad, and sometimes gives you stomach aches, but dammit, the milk is STILL GOOD. 

No, that milk is expired. Throw it out already!! Buy some new milk!

I don't really consider her as friend anymore, not because of the things she said to me before (those I recited to her trying to let her know why I felt offended and hoped she would stop), but because of how she took and react to my comments when I tried to open up to her and draw those boundaries. 

We have mutual friends, but those friends are much closer with me than to her. So actually, losing me, she is going to lose all the other friends, who don't really hang out with her if I'm not there. I also talked with the other friends and we wondered why we have become closer with each other over the years, but not with her. We believed that it's because she has always put her boyfriends in the first priority and was completely out of reach, while the rest of us still hung out with each other even when we're dating. So I guess it's not only her occasionally rude and belittling words that have turned me off, but she as a friend in general, that she never really knows how to care about her friends and nourish friendships. 

I just read this somewhere, "The worst feeling ever is when you express what bother you and instead of apologizing they find a way to make you feel bad about it." This was exactly what she did. I felt bad, but now I'm over it. I feel relieved. I'm just setting my boundaries, and if she doesn't respect that, she can go her own way, with people who are willing to spoil and treat her like a baby - and I'm no longer one of those people.

[stillafool]

The truth is this friend just does not like you anymore and wishes you would leave her alone.  You should just speak to her if she is in front of you at your friend's wedding and move on to your other friends.  Don't try to have any more discussions with her as it's clear she's not interested.  

[stillafool]

On 9/17/2020 at 8:41 AM, Wiseman2 said:

Why allow yourself to keep going in circles about this? It's so Intense. It seems almost like a long drawn out divorce than simply some friends who have grown apart 

I have a feeling this is what the friend is thinking too.  She hates these discussions that continue to come up when in fact she 's trying to end the friendship.

[CaraGrace]

15 hours ago, stillafool said:

I have a feeling this is what the friend is thinking too.  She hates these discussions that continue to come up when in fact she 's trying to end the friendship.

It's actually quite funny that you are saying it's my problem, almost just like what she's doing. I only had this discussion with her once or twice, the first time was when I asked her why over these years she has kept bringing up that I didn't attend her wedding 6 years ago (which she said there's no reason why she had to keep bringing it up and also she can't control if she will bring it up again, and completely blamed it on my over-interpretation of her words), and the second time was a day later, when I tried to tell her that she actually often makes other rude comments to me (which are very literal and have no room for my over-interpretation) in front of other people, causing extreme awkwardness and also making my uncomfortable. So these are the only two times I raised it out and tried to set boundaries after being her friend and putting up with the sometimes belittling and rude remarks she's been directing to me for over 20 years. 

"Why allow yourself to keep going in circles about this?" - maybe because I cared. maybe because I'm upset that a friend of 20 years didn't want to have a mature talk and communicate. Yes I know I've been repeating my frustration and confusion with her here, because I wanted to let these out and because I'm upset, and because I'm not going to tell all these to her anymore, because I'm not talking to her anymore ok? I thought one of the purposes of having this kind of forum is for us to talk about things that bother us but don't know whom to talk to. If it bothers you, you can stop reading and don't waste your time. But I never repeat these discussions with her. She only heard it twice, and each time on a different communication issue. And yes, of course she can feel offended and it's my fault that I just tried to have two serious discussions on our friendship with her, that I'm the one who's annoying, and it's completely ok for her to have repeat all those remarks against me for 20 years. If this is what you mean.

Edited September 22, 2020 by CaraGrace

[stillafool]

You are perfectly welcomed to vent your frustration about your friend here as that is what this forum is for.  You certainly aren't bothering me.   I think we are just trying to show you that to us it's obvious that this friend no longer values your friendship and wants it to end.  Whether you accept or agree with me is on you but I do know you can't force someone to like you.  It's beyond me why you would put up with her rude comments towards you for, 20 years?  You must want to be her friend badly and she knows this so she treats you however she feels because you have no value to her.  If you would ignore her and act like you are fine without her you might see a change in her behavior.

[emeraldgreen]

Weddings often tarnish or destroy friendships. It's a weird thing but I've seen it a dozen times.

Your former friend carries too much bitterness to even meet you halfway in the discussion and now she's just done with you. You're not a snowflake but you're on a different emotional wavelength to her and how it's time to tell yourself you made the effort and you valued her enough to try and fix it, but she just wasn't up for it. I mean, she sounds poisonous to me but it might just be that I relate more to your vibe than hers.