Cuties - Netflix film causes uproar and causes people to cancel accounts

[Ruby Slippers]

1 hour ago, Veronica73 said:

Seriously....you people are looking at it from the view of consumers of porn. Not from the view of a girl growing up in a confusing society. 

The creeps who get off to child porn and anything close to it are NOT thinking about the girls' plight whatsoever. They're simply drooling over this material right out in the open. 

[Weezy1973]

On 9/16/2020 at 7:27 AM, GorillaTheater said:

I have read what the director wrote was her reason for making the movie and I can even see where she's coming from. But I can't get past the idea of fighting the sexualizing of children by sexualizing them. A bridge too far for me.

This sounds a lot like people thinking you stop young people from having sex by not discussion sex, not making birth control available and only promoting abstinence.

Which of course turns out to have the exact opposite effect...

Edited September 19, 2020 by Weezy1973

[Weezy1973]

8 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said:

The creeps who get off to child porn and anything close to it are NOT thinking about the girls' plight whatsoever. They're simply drooling over this material right out in the open. 

And this sounds like people that blame women that dress in short skirts for getting raped. 

[Ruby Slippers]

Adults can do what they want. Adults cannot put children in compromising situations they're too young to understand. There are laws against that for good reason. 

Imagine you have a 10-year-old daughter. Do you want her in a movie like this, shaking her pre-pubescent T&A for all the world to see? I'm sure all the pedos of the world will understand it's "art."

[homecoming]

On 9/15/2020 at 7:31 PM, elaine567 said:

Twerking is highly sexually suggestive, what else is it, if it isn't that?

As for belly dancing...

I've provided a source if you want to read more. If you don't, that's fine. 

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, Ruby Slippers said:

Adults can do what they want. Adults cannot put children in compromising situations they're too young to understand. There are laws against that for good reason. 

Imagine you have a 10-year-old daughter. Do you want her in a movie like this, shaking her pre-pubescent T&A for all the world to see? I'm sure all the pedos of the world will understand it's "art."

The pedos are the problem.  Not the girls dancing. What about kids going swimming “scantily clad” at public pools?  Or doing anything else. Kids are going to do things that kids do. That’s kind of the point of the film. Kids exposed to certain types of media are going to emulate that, even if they don’t understand it.

[Ruby Slippers]

I've never seen a 10-year-old twerking at a public swimming pool. I'm pretty sure the personnel wouldn't be cool with that, for good reason. 

[Wiseman2]

Smut and controversy sell. It's that simple.

[Weezy1973]

7 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

I've never seen a 10-year-old twerking at a public swimming pool. I'm pretty sure the personnel wouldn't be cool with that, for good reason. 

Is this willful ignorance? The point is pedos will, and do perve (and take pictures of) on kids at swimming pools. Should parents not bring their kids swimming? Kids are going to swim. Kids are going to dance. Kids are going to dress up. 

Edited September 19, 2020 by Weezy1973

[Weezy1973]

7 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Smut and controversy sell. It's that simple.

There’s no smut here. 

[Allupinnit]

11 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Is this willful ignorance? The point is pedos will, and do perve (and take pictures of) on kids at swimming pools. Should parents not bring their kids swimming? Kids are going to swim. Kids are going to dance. Kids are going to dress up. 

So now we're equating twerking and humping the ground with SWIMMING.  LOL  I don't know what "you people" means but I don't defend this culture of over-sexualizing women, and ESPECIALLY pre-pubescent girls.  It's a huge problem and I didn't need these girls taught how to dance like that and showing me close ups of their bodies to understand what the director's point is.  

There was even a part in the movie where the girls twerk for a (pedo?) security guard to get out of trouble for sneaking in and I can just about imagine the message THAT sent.  

Was anyone else acting like that at 11 years old?  My parents would have smacked my twerking ass!  And I grew up with MTV and music videos, too.

[NuevoYorko]

I did watch it.  I agree with those who say that the film maker went too far, into "enemy territory," with many of their choices.  The way the dancing was filmed was, IMO, too "lingering," for want of a better world.  The point of the entire piece could have been made with fewer and shorter scenes depicting the sexualization of children in Western culture.

That said, I think I understand why she did it.  If you watch children's dance competitions, you will see these moves in choreographed routines created by adults, judged by adults and watched by an audience of adults and other children who are absorbing the "normalcy" of it.  The fact that they're being performed on a stage and the kids are wearing cute costumes take the edge off.

I believe the director chose to focus on the dances in a different way (the way "we" focus on women doing sexy dance moves in music videos or celebrities onstage) shows us that it's all in how we look at it.  A different perspective makes little girls into sex objects even when they're doing things that we have normalized.  I think it was a fail.

The main fail, though, is that the arc of the main character does not really go anywhere in relation to these choices the director made.  That causes it to come off as somewhat gratuitous.  And thus the controversy.

Unfortunately this came at a time when the trump / QAnon population is still hung up on Pizzagate and how Wayfair is shipping children in wardrobes, so this is just fodder for them.

If they'd shut up, many fewer people would have watched that show.  I wouldn't have picked it on Netflix without the uproar.   

[Allupinnit]

@NuevoYorko - agreed.  The parallel story of how her mom was being forced into a polygamous marriage could have added a really good second portrayal of the debasement of women, had the director played that out in more detail.

Children's pageants are also gross and so are the moms.

[Libby1]

2 hours ago, Ruby Slippers said:

Adults can do what they want. Adults cannot put children in compromising situations they're too young to understand. There are laws against that for good reason. 

Imagine you have a 10-year-old daughter. Do you want her in a movie like this, shaking her pre-pubescent T&A for all the world to see? I'm sure all the pedos of the world will understand it's "art."

I can't imagine a daughter of mine being an actress.   I think child actors are an unusual breed generally, requiring a great deal of maturity from an early age, and I would think many parents would prefer their child not to be involved in that scene regardless of the role involved.

From what I've read, a big part of the controversy relates to the promo picture Netflix released.  The original French promo pic shows the girls running along a street exuberantly, in their dance gear...generally behaving like kids.  The Netflix promo poster has them all packaged, pouting and posing in the kind of pic you'd expect to see featuring adult women advertising a lap-dancing club.  Frankly, I do think that Netflix promo poster has a "hey paedophiles, we've got something that might interest you..." vibe about it, whereas the original promo pic sends out a very different message.  There are certain cultural and stylistic differences between French and American film making (and audience expectations/perceptions) involved here, I think.

https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/netflix-under-fire-for-misrepresenting-french-film-cuties.html/

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by Libby1

[Weezy1973]

1 hour ago, Allupinnit said:

 I don't know what "you people" means but I don't defend this culture of over-sexualizing women, and ESPECIALLY pre-pubescent girls.  

That’s kind of the point of the movie. This movie is shining a spotlight on the problem. Not promoting it.

[Veronica73]

I agree that the lingering shots may have gone on for too long. Maybe they could have been shorter and still gotten the same effect. But I definitely think it should be uncomfortable to watch those parts, and so I don’t disagree with her including them in the film. Being uncomfortable is often what prompts people to actually think about things. To give a nudge that makes people think about uncomfortable/inconvenient issues. Unfortunately Netflix did a horrible job in their initial marketing.

[elaine567]

33 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

That’s kind of the point of the movie. This movie is shining a spotlight on the problem. Not promoting it.

But it is promoting it. 
Do you think your average paedophile cares a damn about "the message", no, he is too busy clipping the juicy bits out of it to enjoy later or send to his mates...

Edited September 19, 2020 by elaine567
typo

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

35 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

That’s kind of the point of the movie. This movie is shining a spotlight on the problem. Not promoting it.

Absolutely ridiculous excuse! Insane! Where do we draw the line on filming things that are TOTALLY inappropriate for the "noble" purpose of "shining a spotlight on the problem?"  It's an excuse for something that that was created and produced that exploits young girls in a sexual way.  Anyone who thinks this is remotely ok has serious issues with morality and judgment.

 

[GorillaTheater]

5 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

This sounds a lot like people thinking you stop young people from having sex by not discussion sex, not making birth control available and only promoting abstinence.

Which of course turns out to have the exact opposite effect...

I think drawing some kind of equivalency between not wanting to see kids sexualized in a movie and what you have above is an amazingly huge stretch. I'm not sure how you managed it, frankly.

[Weezy1973]

28 minutes ago, GorillaTheater said:

I think drawing some kind of equivalency between not wanting to see kids sexualized in a movie and what you have above is an amazingly huge stretch. I'm not sure how you managed it, frankly.

Kids are being sexualized in real life. Exposing that in a movie doesn’t cause it to happen, but it hopefully promotes discussion which in turn can decrease its prevalence.

Just like discussing sex with teenagers doesn’t cause teenagers to have sex. It does the opposite. Being able to talk about things that actually happen is a good thing, and any art form (including movies) can be the start of the discussion. As people are doing right now on this forum.

[Wiseman2]

4 hours ago, Weezy1973 said:

There’s no smut here. 

You're right. Smut is a portmanteau of sexy minors and art. And Netflix is known for other high art like Duck Dynasty, and Hoarders 😋

Edited September 19, 2020 by Wiseman2

[Veronica73]

2 hours ago, CautiouslyOptimistic said:

Absolutely ridiculous excuse! Insane! Where do we draw the line on filming things that are TOTALLY inappropriate for the "noble" purpose of "shining a spotlight on the problem?"  It's an excuse for something that that was created and produced that exploits young girls in a sexual way.  Anyone who thinks this is remotely ok has serious issues with morality and judgment.

 

Have you even watched it?

[Weezy1973]

2 hours ago, elaine567 said:

But it is promoting it. 
Do you think your average paedophile cares a damn about "the message", no, he is too busy clipping the juicy bits out of it to enjoy later or send to his mates...

Have you seen the movie? It’s fine to criticize of course. But to be clear, the sexualized dance number is not accepted or embraced in the movie. It is not promoted; the character in the movie that choreographed the number, is booed. 

[central]

My understanding (having read some of the professional reviews) is that the movie is intended to be controversial, to provoke a discussion of the endemic sexualization of young girls and young women by society.  (I haven't seen it, nor will I.)  This is happening almost everywhere even as it is condemned - yet nothing is done to fix the issue.  The movie is pointing that out.  Those who are offended may not be thinking about the problem the movie portrays.

Edited September 19, 2020 by central

[Libby1]

So I decided to watch it before commenting further.  I can't see any spoiler button, so anybody who's planning to watch the film - don't read this post.

For the first half or so of the film, there isn't that much dancing - and what dancing there is looks like pretty standard 11 year old girl stuff.  It's primarily a story about Amy, a Muslim girl from Senegal building a friendship with a local girl called Angelica while trying to come to terms with difficult family issues (her dad taking a second wife) and experiencing conflicts between the traditionalist messages from the Muslim community which has welcomed her family, and the more free and liberal lifestyle pursued by Angelica and her friends.  Angelica & co have organised themselves into a very competent dance troupe, which (after some initial rejection from the other girls) Amy joins.  In the first part of the film, Amy is the wide eyed innocent while the other girls show more street smarts - but a couple of scenes show the street smarts are bluster, and really they're just kids.

Amy starts watching far more adult, sexualised routines online and encourages the troupe to incorporate this into their routine.  Suddenly she's coming across as the far more worldly one of the group.  When they get accepted into the finals of a dance, they film themselves doing a routine on some steps - and it's pretty icky in terms of lingering shots.  The video is uploaded and suddenly Amy is the coolest and most popular girl in the school, but then she gets into a fight with a girl from another gang - whose gang pull down her trousers and take a photo of her pants.  Since she's wearing childish pants,  she and the rest of the dance troupe become a joke - being dismissed as "little girls".   She attempts to remedy this by taking a photo of her vagina (using a phone stolen from a family friend) and uploads it.  This results in a scene at school following which her mother and an older woman ("auntie") sprinkle her with holy water then watch appalled as she starts shaking, convulsing and twerking.

The next day she finds her friends on the railway track. They're angry with her over the vulva pic and refuse to practice the routine with her.  They've replaced her with a former troupe member Yasmin, who they fell out with earlier in the film.  Her family send for a kind Imam who performs a ritual to remove demons, but then tells her mother there aren't any demons - and indicates that the troubles in Amy's parents marriage are the real issue. Amy attempts to repair her friendship with Angelica, but makes matters worse by freaking Angelica out.  She goes back into the apartment and sees her dad's bride to be, and runs out of the house. Next thing, she's dressed up for the dance contest.  Spotting Yasmin walking by the river, she pushes her into the river and then goes to join the troupe in the contest. They're not happy, but it's too late to do anything - plus they agree that she's a far better dancer than Yasmin.

They go on to the stage and perform a very sexualised, adult routine.  Some of the audience (mainly men) are enthusiastic, but there's a lot of thumbs down and shaking of heads from women in the audience.  Amy suddenly freezes and starts crying.  She runs home and gets a row from auntie on account of being dressed "like a whore" who tells her to go and put on her dress for her dad's wedding.  Her mum tells auntie to leave her alone.  Amy and mum hug.  Amy asks her mum not to go to the wedding.  Her mum indicates she's going to do her duty and go to the wedding but that it's fine if Amy doesn't want to go.  Amy gets dressed in everyday clothes, goes outside and joins some local girls in a skipping game. 

The dancing is obviously overtly sexual and completely inappropriate for 11 year old girls, but that's the storyline.  The role social media plays in encouraging pre-pubescent to sexualise themselves in order to win popularity points...and how quickly they can switch from being popular to being slut shamed as a result of crossing the line in a balancing act that 11 year old kids aren't equipped to manage and would be much better off not having to deal with.  I don't think I'd have given those dance routines much thought if it hadn't been for the furore they've caused.  Not because they weren't cringe inducing to watch, but because given the story line they were bound to be.  The bulk of the film is devoted to the Amy's various relationships (friends and family) and conflicts.   If there are paedophiles fast forwarding through the story line because they want to see some little girls dancing inappropriately then that's unfortunate...but their behaviour doesn't mean the film itself is some sort of child pornography.