Cuties - Netflix film causes uproar and causes people to cancel accounts

[Libby1]

19 minutes ago, NuevoYorko said:

Competitive dance is huge in the US.  I will venture to say that it's extra huge in trump country and it's considered a wholesome christian family activity.  Please take a few moments to google KR National Dance Competition.  I just looked for literally one minute at "hip hop" category and immediately this Dance Precisions "Run The World" (Molly Long choreography) popped up.  I'm not sharing a link.  These girls are 8 years old.  There are hundreds upon hundreds of videos similar to this, I don't know if this is "extreme" or not because I stopped here.

When I was a kid I'd have loved to be able to dance like the girls in that Run the World dance segment, but I wouldn't have been allowed to participate because a) I'd never have been good enough, and b) my parents would have regarded it as inappropriate dancing for a child (whereas I think as a kid I'd have seen it as a sort of "warrior dance").  I'd say the dance those kids were doing is a scaled up - ie more difficult, markedly more skilled - version of what the dance troupe were doing in Cuties before Amy joined them. 

Once the Amy character joined, she encouraged them to take their dancing to another level of sleaze.  I would say there is a moderate canyon between that Run the World dance segment (which seems to be part of highly respected dance contest in the US) and the sleazy dance segments in Cuties, but I wouldn't say there's a grand canyon between the two.  

Edited September 22, 2020 by Libby1

[LivingWaterPlease]

16 hours ago, basil67 said:

  You're writing as if the twerking was the only part of the movie that they acted and learned.

Thing is, there are plenty of stage parents and kids who want to act, and if no laws are broken, their parenting choices are none of my business.   

Hmmm, can't seem to find anything in my posts that I've said or inferred that would cause you to believe I think twerking was the only part of the movie I believed they acted and learned. I also object to the seductive stills of the girls, not just the movie.

It seems to me the decisions parents make about their children affect all of our lives and also the future of our society so that it becomes all of our business as to some of the choices parents and other adults make about the activities children are involved in. 

That is why these types of discussions are important. Hopefully, parents and others will think more deeply about choices they might not have considered and how it might affect their children's futures and the future of our societies if thoughtful discussions take place. 

I do believe more and more of this type of movie, books, etc. will begin to appear. There are those who have a great interest in the financial and recreational aspects of the sexualization of children sadly.

I'm going to take a break from this discussion at this point; may be back later but am tied up with some things right now. Just don't want you to think I'm ignoring anything you may comment on or ask.

Thanks, basil and others, for taking the time to share a little bit of discussion! 

 

Edited September 22, 2020 by LivingWaterPlease

[Ellener]

On 9/13/2020 at 12:59 AM, Fletch Lives said:

Cuties - Netflix film causes uproar and causes people to cancel accounts

Hey guys! So I injured my arm doing home improvement projects recently, and just a couple days ago, my back......so I have been in bed watching too much news and came across some controversy regarding the Netflix tween move Cuties.

I found a Youtube video that described it as child porn. Curious to find out what all the uproar was about, I watched the movie......based on reports, I fully expected to see a young woman with no top on, but that was not the case - there is no nudity........although the movie is highly suggestive.

Others are canceling their Netflix accounts, and some are calling it child exploitation, a pedophile film, disgusting, and more.

While I agree it does exploit the teens in the movie, Hollywood has been doing this to many groups for years......teens, blacks, men, women, you name it. So I fail to see what's new about that? I just don't get the hype?

While I think it's distasteful and trashy........... it looks to me just like many other teen films I've seen over the last 35 years - and I have seen worse. Yeah, there is a lot of twerking and gyrating going on- so what? Kids have been dancing like that for years. A lot of young women even have poles for pole dancing in their homes! Heck, they complained about Elvis in the fifties! I think some of the comments I'm hearing are a little over the top.

That said, I am glad to hear so many speaking up about it (even if some comments are over-dramatic).......it's just a lame, trashy movie not worth watching in my opinion. Maybe all this backlash will help filmmakers gravitate to more positive content and real storytelling, so it could be a plus in that regard. 

What do you think about it?

My son told me about this, he said he could not watch the trailer as it was so obviously exploitative and unpleasant. Yes, things like this have been common but that doesn't mean we have to accept them in 2020. 

I found out that one of my friends is married to a child sex offender during the summer, he was convicted of producing child pornography 11 years ago and went to prison. Whilst I feel sorry for her I know the friendship is pretty much done, because I would not have stayed with him. 

There's nothing ever justifies abuse of children, nothing.

 

 

[vla1120]

I watched "Cuties" to see what all the fuss was about. If that movie upset you, then you wouldn't be able to handle "Toddlers & Tiaras" or most kids' dance competitions. What I found TRULY offensive was how many people I know who were outraged at "Cuties" and threatened to cancel Netflix, but they voted for our current POTUS, and plan to vote for him again. You can't condemn "Cuties", but overlook what he's been accused of with young girls while in the company of Jeffrey Epstein. THAT type of hypocrisy drives me crazy.

[GorillaTheater]

15 minutes ago, vla1120 said:

I watched "Cuties" to see what all the fuss was about. If that movie upset you, then you wouldn't be able to handle "Toddlers & Tiaras" or most kids' dance competitions.

A likely valid theory I'll accept rather than put to the test.

[NuevoYorko]

I’m not invested in getting others to share my opinion on this. It’s very disheartening, though, the number of people who have not seen it and who seem to be repeating the exact same scripted words. “Child pornography” “exploitation” “outraged” etc.  
Where did all the folks who haven’t seen it get their opinions?

From the same sources where they get the rest of their “facts” and opinions. 

I certainly don’t think people need to watch a movie which absolutely has well publicized scenes of young teenagers doing sexually suggestive dance moves, or to approve of that. 
 

 

[GorillaTheater]

I haven't seen the whole movie, so perhaps my opinion is unfair, but from the trailer and clips I can certainly say that the promotion of, and certain bits of, the movie are distasteful. I can't say I feel particularly strongly about it, though. I think Netflix seriously messed up the promotion of this movie, but I don't plan on canceling them.

It IS interesting to me that opinions about the movie seem to be falling along political lines. I really can't expalin that, and I admit that it makes me wonder if I'm on the right side of the argument, but I'm still not at all comfortable with how young girls appear to be depicted in this movie. I don't like to see kids depicted in certain ways. I don't watch movies in which kids get killed, either.

Edited September 24, 2020 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

2 minutes ago, GorillaTheater said:

It IS interesting to me that opinions about the movie seem to be falling along political lines.

Indeed.

[Libby1]

13 minutes ago, vla1120 said:

I watched "Cuties" to see what all the fuss was about. If that movie upset you, then you wouldn't be able to handle "Toddlers & Tiaras" or most kids' dance competitions. What I found TRULY offensive was how many people I know who were outraged at "Cuties" and threatened to cancel Netflix, but they voted for our current POTUS, and plan to vote for him again. You can't condemn "Cuties", but overlook what he's been accused of with young girls while in the company of Jeffrey Epstein. THAT type of hypocrisy drives me crazy.

That's the weird thing about all of this for me.  That in fact, mainstream America does seem to handle shows like that remarkably easily.  I mean yes, there might be some disapproval - but you don't hear the kind of "oh my God, this is child porn" outrage that's been aimed at Cuties.  The pageant and dance show stuff is churned out as though it's some sort of positive thing to be consumed, whereas Cuties was very evidently intended as a wake up call, getting people to have a serious think about the detrimental impact the hypersexualisation of pop culture is having on kids.   But the former is either considered okay - or, at least, not so wrong that it would elicit a fraction of the outrage aimed at Cuties.

I don't suppose Ted Cruz has ever asked for a criminal investigation into the likes of Toddlers & Tiaras, or these televised dance contests featuring 8 year olds dressed in the same kind of clothes that the 12 to 14 year olds are wearing in the Cuties promo shot.  Then again, the child beauty pageant industry is worth some $5 billion annually in the US.   Strange that people in the US can cope robustly enough with hosting a multi-billion dollar industry in which tiny tots are glammed up and even in some cases subjected to botox injections to make them into pretty little objects.  But a film that uses trained actors (monitored by a psychologist during filming to protect their welfare) to take a serious look at the impact our increasingly hypersexualised and objectifying culture has on young girls is regarded as completely depraved.  That's effed up.

[Weezy1973]

2 minutes ago, GorillaTheater said:

I'm still not at all comfortable with how young girls appear to be depicted in this movie. I don't like to see kids depicted in certain ways. I don't watch movies in which kids get killed, either.

That’s totally fair. My view is that the movie depicts what I suspect many girls struggle with. They’re exposed to all sorts of media and trying to understand the world. They want to be liked and accepted, and can make poor decisions. The dance depicted is an example of that and it is recognized as “too far” in the movie. It’s not glorified. 
 

The one thing I’ll say about young actors is I suspect their ability to handle it is pretty much a product of their parenting. Watch Natalie Portman in The Professional. She was 12 when she made that movie. Also sexually suggestive. To assume child actors are going to inevitably be damaged by having to do this type of dancing, which they’ve likely been exposed to in their day to day lives, is just not accepting reality.

 

And agree that Netflix was way out of line in their marketing. 

[Ruby Slippers]

11 minutes ago, Weezy1973 said:

Watch Natalie Portman in The Professional. She was 12 when she made that movie. Also sexually suggestive.

She's spoken out about it, said she was sexualized for that film, her first film, and she had no choice in the matter. A few clips from an article:

Quote

“I excitedly opened my first fan mail to read a rape fantasy that a man had written me,” the Oscar winner said at the march, as transcribed by CNN.

She described other instances of sexual objectification that she faced soon after the film’s release, including movie reviewers talking about her “budding breasts” and her local radio station starting a countdown to her 18th birthday to keep track of “the date that I would be legal to sleep with.”

“I understood very quickly, even as a 13-year-old, that if I were to express myself sexually, I would feel unsafe,” said Portman, who was wearing a Time’s Up T-shirt. “And that men would feel entitled to discuss and objectify my body to my great discomfort.”

Portman said she chose to combat this by building a reputation as a “prudish, conservative, nerdy, serious” actress. She even rejected roles in which there were kissing scenes in order to feel safe.

“I felt the need to cover my body and to inhibit my expression and my work in order to send my own message to the world: that I’m someone worthy of safety and respect,” she said. “The response to my expression, from small comments about my body to more threatening deliberate statements, served to control my behavior through an environment of sexual terrorism.”

In November, Portman spoke to Vulture about how sexual harassment is so ingrained in the film industry and society generally that when other women’s stories began to surface in late 2017, she didn’t immediately recognize the similarity to her own experiences.

“I went from thinking I don’t have a story,” she told the entertainment site, “to thinking, ‘Oh wait, I have 100 stories.’”

 

[Weezy1973]

@Ruby Slippers here’s another interview where she talks specifically about her part in the movie and she touches specifically on what people in this thread are doing (I.e. judging her parents):

https://www.interviewmagazine.com/film/new-again-natalie-portman

SISCHY: Let’s talk about your acting, and also about people’s perceptions of you as an actress. Because your first movie, The Professional, got a lot of people talking. To those who understand how great the movie is, you’ve become a major young actress. And to some of those who don’t, I imagine you’ve become something of a target for the fake moralists. 

PORTMAN: Right. I hate when people do that. Who are they to say? Who are they to judge me or my parents? Their kids are probably also going around judging people like that, when in real life I’m not the one who’s playing with guns or smoking. But a lot of those kinds of judgments come from what’s in people’s own minds. They’re the ones who have the problems. Like one critic who wrote a really mean article about how my parents should watch out that I don’t turn into Linda Blair. The article said something about how my “budding breasts were provocatively pointing out from a white t-shirt.” I sat there reading that article wondering, what movie did this guy see? [laughs]

SISCHY: In fact, what you showed up there was a fully dressed person who’s at a certain stage in terms of physical changes. 

PORTMAN: Right. And as my friend’s mom said, “She can’t control what’s going on under there.” [laughs] But sometimes people’s reactions tell more about themselves. There was a lot in this movie that wasn’t pretty. But it is just a movie. It’s pretend. 

SISCHY: You’re right. It is just a movie, and in fact what made it so strong for me is that it captures a sense of things that a lot of people are experiencing right now in real life. The sense of all the violence everywhere and the abuse and the neglect and all the anger. And, of course, all the loneliness. I think the loneliness of both the little girl you played and the man in that movie was the bridge that connected them. 

PORTMAN: Exactly.

 

 

Edited September 23, 2020 by Weezy1973

[Ellener]

I have one son, I taught him do not ever treat children as sexual beings. I really don't see why so many people harm children or minimise the harm of children.

There's no 'grey area' here: children are not to be exploited or abused in any way ever. 

Here in Texas it's a daily scenario, the rape and exploitation of young ( trafficked ) people, and it would not be happening if there weren't men who are into that stuff. Fuelled by so-called 'harmless' film.

It's not right, it's never going to be right, and people should take a step back before they justify it.

It's not 'fake moralism'. 

It's wrong. Period. Always.

If someone makes a film that sexualises children it's contributing to the problem of child abuse. 
So don't do it!!!

[vla1120]

8 hours ago, Ellener said:

Here in Texas....

Texas is the state with the most beauty pageants, too. Beauty pageants by their very purpose are an exploitation and sexualization of girls and young women. If people are mad at "Cuties", they should be even more angry with the daily exploitation of girls in beauty pageants. At least "Cuties" had professionals on staff to ensure the girls were given emotional support  while they were filming this important message. 

[Ellener]

It's not right is what I feel, whether it's pageants or movies. Nobody should be looking at children as sex objects. Ever. Stop it right now!!!!

[Libby1]

53 minutes ago, vla1120 said:

Texas is the state with the most beauty pageants, too. Beauty pageants by their very purpose are an exploitation and sexualization of girls and young women. If people are mad at "Cuties", they should be even more angry with the daily exploitation of girls in beauty pageants. At least "Cuties" had professionals on staff to ensure the girls were given emotional support  while they were filming this important message. 

They did, and in fact the film was approved by child protection authorities in France.

Doucouré wrote an op-ed in the Washington Post Sept. 16 called “I directed ‘Cuties.’ This is what you need to know about modern girlhood.” agreeing with Netflix’s statement.

She said that at no point were any of the child actors in danger on set, and that the crew employed a trained counselor. The film was approved by France’s child protection authorities. The nudity many people are claiming is in the film is a “one-second shot in which the main characters see the exposed breast of an actress over 18 while watching a video of a dance routine on a grainy mobile screen,” the director said.

https://bookandfilmglobe.com/film/much-ado-about-cuties/

There's now a sort of stone wall of a narrative that says "the actors in this film were exploited, will suffer long term consequences from this and the whole project (and anybody defending it) must just be condemned into silence".  No doubt those who haven't seen the film but are determined to join the chorus of voices condemning it as porn/exploitation would probably will just incorporate French child protection authorities into the list of people/organisations to be labelled as corrupt, deviant etc.  

@NuevoYorko referenced a dance competition featuring 8 year olds dressed in outfits that are actually worse than the outfits worn in cuties.  He didn't want to link it, but I'm going to...because I think the outcry in the US over Cuties is astonishing in light of the following being a troupe of 8 year olds in a national dance competition in the US.  A competition run by Kids Artistic Revue - which labels itself as "America's favorite dance competition & convention".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXIagGsn7q8&ab_channel=DancingWithYT

I took a look to see if that competition is run in consultation with child protection professionals in the US.  I mean, presumably it must be - but I can't find any mention of that on the KAR site.  Which suggests that child welfare isn't deemed a priority by the people who run that contest to the extent that the director of Cuties deemed it a priority when she involved child protection professionals in the filming of Cuties.   No wonder the French film industry and French government's culture department is standing firm behind the director.  They must be thinking that Ted Cruz has quite the brass neck to be pushing for Cuties to be condemned as child pornography.

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by Libby1

[Ruby Slippers]

That video is absolutely disgusting. I couldn't get any further than 10 seconds.

There's an uproar over Cuties because it's available on the hottest streaming platform in the world, so the reach is much broader than a pre-teen dance contest.

[Ellener]

24 minutes ago, Ruby Slippers said:

That video is absolutely disgusting. I couldn't get any further than 10 seconds.

There's an uproar over Cuties because it's available on the hottest streaming platform in the world, so the reach is much broader than a pre-teen dance contest.

That's what my son said, he said it was so appalling he couldn't watch the trailer. He said it made him sick to his stomach. 

No one should want to watch children acting out as a form of entertainment. 

[Ellener]

I just cancelled my Netflix subscription in protest at this stuff.

As for other forums which present this media as art-shame on you. 

It's totally unacceptable.

[Libby1]

1 hour ago, Ruby Slippers said:

That video is absolutely disgusting. I couldn't get any further than 10 seconds.

There's an uproar over Cuties because it's available on the hottest streaming platform in the world, so the reach is much broader than a pre-teen dance contest.

The issue of whether something is or isn't child pornography is judged by its content, not by the breadth of its reach.  If Ted Cruz believes it's appropriate to refer Cuties for investigation as possible child pornography, then he should also be referring footage of those dance contests, pageants etc.  But he won't, because he knows perfectly well that none of it (not Cuties not the pageants and not the dance contests) would meet any reasonable "child pornography" test.  There's a big gulf between "age inappropriate by most reasonable people's standards" and "child porn".

This whole Cuties debate has become all about the feelings of adults contributing to the debate.  An adult's gut feeling that something is wrong is certainly a useful thing when it comes to child protection.  An adult's feeling that something is wrong is often what triggers a process whereby a child who is at risk comes to the attention of the authorities and is provided with help and attention.  But an adult's feeling that something is wrong, inappropriate or even disgusting isn't the beginning and end of the process of finding out whether a child is actually at risk and in need of protection

In the context of this debate, it really doesn't seem like most people are interested in going beyond their own feelings about the film and trying to check out what sort of support or safeguards were in place for the young actors, or how they were evaluated to check their ability to cope with an emotionally demanding role in a controversial film.  Mostly the debate seems to be about how adults are feeling, and how they feel a need to be protected from films like this.

 

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by Libby1

[Ruby Slippers]

Society has become debased in principles and morals to the point that I don't expect this movie will be removed. Worse things than this are tolerated and even defended.

It's a sad, bleak sign of the times when 8-year-old girls are trained to compete for popularity by adopting the behavior of grown sexual beings. But that's where we are as a society. 

I'm heartened to see how many people are expressing their feelings about it and I'll continue to be vocal about mine if the topic comes up.

I told my mom about this, and she got this sad, faraway look in her eyes - like, "Wow, how far we have fallen."

[pepperbird2]

1 hour ago, Ruby Slippers said:

That video is absolutely disgusting. I couldn't get any further than 10 seconds.

There's an uproar over Cuties because it's available on the hottest streaming platform in the world, so the reach is much broader than a pre-teen dance contest.

I haven't seen the movie, but I would question why it had to include any scenes that were even the least bit graphic. I highly doubt it was to make any sort of point, as the movie could just as easily have been made without them, and yet it wasn't.
My guess? The titillation factor. Would anyone have tuned in if it was just someone talking or if it didn't include the footage that's got so many upset?
I doubt it. This isn't the first program/movie to address the topic of the early sexualization of children, so why is this causing  such a stir and getting so much attention?

It raises the question of why people only paid attention when they thought there was something salacious.

[Weezy1973]

I still think everybody on this board that’s vehemently against this film hasn’t seen it. Is that right? I understand not wanting to see it of course (lots of movies I don’t want to see too), but criticism of the movie without actually watching it can’t really be considered valid at all. 
 

The movie deals with topics that actually are important to discuss, especially with kids. It’s not like magically people become sexual beings when they turn 18. I remember talking to my sister about her needing to discuss porn with her 3 sons and probably sooner than she thinks. They very likely will be exposed to it at a youngish age and they won’t really understand what it is. By they’ll definitely be curious. 
 

The school her boys went to brought in an expert in kids and the internet and one of the take home messages was, whatever you think your kids are getting exposed to, in actuality it’s way, way more than you can imagine. 
 

The dance the girls perform in the movie is emulating dancing that the girls saw on music videos. Does that seem like a far fetched premise? It was an attempt to fit in and be liked. Does that seem like something kids go through? The dance itself was received as inappropriate in the movie. Not glorified like those beauty pageants are. 
 

The thing I will agree on was that the marketing for the movie did push the sensationalistic aspects and didn’t delve into the more thoughtful aspects of the film. Netflix has apologized, but I suspect the controversy is likely gaining them more subscribers than they’re losing. 

[Ellener]

1 hour ago, Weezy1973 said:

I suspect the controversy is likely gaining them more subscribers than they’re losing. 

what the hell is wrong with people. I have just today deleted my Netflix account-I am the most liberal of people but I don't approve of this kind of thing.

My son told me this was the most obnoxious film he's ever seen, it was basically disguised child pornography. As other people have said he couldn't watch it and I don't think anyone should. 

It crosses a line. 

 

 

 

[Ellener]

As for Ted Cruz, he should be fixing sexual exploitation in Texas. People trafficking is a terrible 'industry' here.

Who are all these men who exploit these women and children? 

No no no no no. This is wrong.