Universities and covid-19

[pepperbird2]

Universities here (Canada) are up and running for another semester, mot online but a few are doing in person classes. What I don't understand is why those that switched to an online format allowed international students to return to live in residence here or an apartment. These kids are told to self quarantine for 14 days and have to have at least three negative tests for the virus. Most are being good about it, but there's already been at least four fined and one sent back home.

As it stands right now, we have no active cases. I don't understand the need to have these kids come back for no real reason when they could have attended classes online. I don't think the risk was worth it to the people here or even these students. If these disease rears it's head again, it will cripple our health care which is already limping.

What are things like where you are?
 

[Alpacalia]

I'm in the United States and where I live classes will continue online through the Spring 2021 semester.

[CaliforniaGirl]

1 hour ago, pepperbird2 said:

Universities here (Canada) are up and running for another semester, mot online but a few are doing in person classes. What I don't understand is why those that switched to an online format allowed international students to return to live in residence here or an apartment. These kids are told to self quarantine for 14 days and have to have at least three negative tests for the virus. Most are being good about it, but there's already been at least four fined and one sent back home.

As it stands right now, we have no active cases. I don't understand the need to have these kids come back for no real reason when they could have attended classes online. I don't think the risk was worth it to the people here or even these students. If these disease rears it's head again, it will cripple our health care which is already limping.

What are things like where you are?
 

I don't know. Have you contacted anyone at college that has info? Schools usually provide updates with explanations. 

Where I am, we're all distance learning. When return criteria are met most students will return on a 2 days on campus/3 days distance learning model.

[schlumpy]

Foreign students pay big bucks to attend the Universities in the States. Could it be the power of the almighty dollar?

[pepperbird2]

4 hours ago, schlumpy said:

Foreign students pay big bucks to attend the Universities in the States. Could it be the power of the almighty dollar?

I'm thinking the answer is sort of a mixed bag. Post secondary here is heavily subsidized for Canadian students. Tuition sits at about $900.00 up per course, but that can varry. A friend of my daughter's is here as a student from Jamaica- she stayed with us when the unis closed int he spring as she was also working and didn't want to lose her job- pays about $20,000 a year, just for tuition.

I know some students, especially those from China, wouldn't be able to continue their studies online. It's too heavily censored for them.

[Ruby Slippers]

On 9/15/2020 at 7:35 AM, schlumpy said:

Foreign students pay big bucks to attend the Universities in the States. Could it be the power of the almighty dollar?

I used to work at a university, and it's true that many foreign students pay sticker price on tuition, as they're not eligible for a lot of grants and scholarships. Colleges specifically recruit in certain countries because the profit margin is so high for those students.

[basil67]

Here in Aust, university is all delivered online, with the exception of prac classes where students need a lab or equipment. 

No foreign students have been allowed entry.  We have a long enough queue of Aussies trying to get back in as it is.    

[Emilie Jolie]

All classes other than medicine and music are held online until at least January here but most likely until summer 2021, with foreign students (also many from Asia) having been invited to attend online classes from their student accommodation. Many of them have stayed home, though.

Things are, to put it mildly, not great. Students are dissatisfied and feel like they have been used as cash cows (which, in fairness, they have).

[MrPlop]

On 9/13/2020 at 8:56 PM, pepperbird2 said:

Universities here (Canada) are up and running for another semester, mot online but a few are doing in person classes. What I don't understand is why those that switched to an online format allowed international students to return to live in residence here or an apartment. These kids are told to self quarantine for 14 days and have to have at least three negative tests for the virus. Most are being good about it, but there's already been at least four fined and one sent back home.

As it stands right now, we have no active cases. I don't understand the need to have these kids come back for no real reason when they could have attended classes online. I don't think the risk was worth it to the people here or even these students. If these disease rears it's head again, it will cripple our health care which is already limping.

What are things like where you are?
 

If they're on a visa many countries won't allow them to keep it unless they are physically attending classes.

[Prudence V]

On 9/14/2020 at 1:56 AM, pepperbird2 said:

I don't understand the need to have these kids come back for no real reason when they could have attended classes online.

No doubt a mix of reasons. Here in the U.K., various factors include:

• students from countries like China where firewalls prevent access to certain sites or materials required for their education need to be somewhere when they can access these sites and materials;
• study visas require students to be on site;
• the situation is fluid. No universities (other than the Open University) are completely online (aside from a few courses routinely offered as fully online by a few universities, usually at postgrad level). Most universities are offering a mix, with some face-to-face teaching & learning where it’s safe, or required (e.g. wet labs, or health sciences) and some remote (online, asynchronous, etc as appropriate). Some students are attending almost all of their teaching F2F; some almost all online; but for many it’s a mix. And subject to change... The government has asked all teaching until 8 Dec to move online to allow students a gap to travel home for Christmas, but obviously this varies from course to course and uni to uni how it’s actually being done. 
• Some degree programmes are certified by professional bodies, who demand that a certain percentage of T&L happens F2F, in labs, in the field, etc and so those courses need to provide that or lose their professional certification. 
• finances - now have invested heavily in student accommodation and need to pay off those loans. They need bodies in those rooms paying rent to keep them afloat. 

 

Obviously the last factor depends on the uni. Some have outsourced student accommodation entirely, so don’t have this issue (though the outsourced providers do...). Others rely on a commuter student population, with few students in student accommodation - so this is less of a problem for them. 

 

[Prudence V]

20 hours ago, Emilie Jolie said:

Students are dissatisfied and feel like they have been used as cash cows (which, in fairness, they have).

Interesting. I know some local unis (Manchester unis being cases in point) have been in the news for this. At other unis, it’s quite different. My students are grateful for the flexibility and engagement that remote teaching has offered them - they can avoid long and costly commutes, don’t have to worry about child care, can maintain better work/life balance, etc, and all while staying safe. They enjoy more interaction, more responsive staff, more creative pedagogy and more creative assignments - or at least, that’s what the anonymous feedback has said. A couple miss the clear transition between home and study - and because most of our students are working class or economically precarious, some have struggled with space, time, technology and bandwidth - but the overwhelming view is that they prefer it like this (at least for now...)

[pepperbird2]

3 hours ago, Prudence V said:

Interesting. I know some local unis (Manchester unis being cases in point) have been in the news for this. At other unis, it’s quite different. My students are grateful for the flexibility and engagement that remote teaching has offered them - they can avoid long and costly commutes, don’t have to worry about child care, can maintain better work/life balance, etc, and all while staying safe. They enjoy more interaction, more responsive staff, more creative pedagogy and more creative assignments - or at least, that’s what the anonymous feedback has said. A couple miss the clear transition between home and study - and because most of our students are working class or economically precarious, some have struggled with space, time, technology and bandwidth - but the overwhelming view is that they prefer it like this (at least for now...)

I don't know about all this. There's the view the faculty has and the view the students  have, and it's not always the same.
The pass/fail marking system some unis here have adopted is one example. Faculty like it, students do not. 

[pepperbird2]

20 hours ago, MrPlop said:

If they're on a visa many countries won't allow them to keep it unless they are physically attending classes.

That's the thing- they don't need to be here to attend classes, and travel from outside is the only source of infection right now.

[Prudence V]

On 11/18/2020 at 8:55 PM, pepperbird2 said:

I don't know about all this. There's the view the faculty has and the view the students  have, and it's not always the same.
 

Of course. That’s why collect feedback anonymously - and because the students know we’ll act on it and schedule classes F2F or online (or blended) depending on their preferences, there’s reason for them to be honest about what they’d prefer. 
 

On 11/18/2020 at 5:34 PM, Prudence V said:

at least, that’s what the anonymous feedback has said.

Our students are overwhelmingly “non-traditional” in various ways, mostly working class / economically precarious backgrounds, more not white than white, several older, many with caring responsibilities, and most with work commitments, and a disproportionate number reporting disabilities of various kinds. Most are first-in-family, many from first or second generation migrant households, and a good proportion have vocational rather than academic entry qualifications. Few of them are the typical straight-from-school young people whose sole focus is their studies - the kind of “traditional” student that universities are designed for.
 

So I guess I’m not really surprised at their preferences, although some of my colleagues (who are themselves battling with time, space, technology and resources to do online T&L properly) can’t understand why they would prefer it. But then, from what the students describe of F2F T&L currently (a handful of them widely spaced in huge draughty lecture theatres, struggling to hear lecturers who are wearing visors and classmates who are wearing masks, no hanging about anywhere just briskly moving from venue to venue or sitting far apart in the library in pre-booked seats, or drinking coffee outside in the cold (there are marquees, so at least they’re not getting wet) it doesn’t sound like how campus used to feel just a few months back. 

[Prudence V]

On 11/18/2020 at 8:55 PM, pepperbird2 said:

The pass/fail marking system some unis here have adopted is one example. Faculty like it, students do not. 

I’m not surprised students like this, and I’m very surprised any teaching staff do (unless they’re huge classes taught like an assembly line - which is the bottom of the barrel kind of teaching that no one ever wants to do anyway). it would never fly at unis here - unless for a purely attendance-based (no credit) module like attending induction week - because both the students Union and the staff would refuse, and no external examiner would sign off on it. 

[pepperbird2]

1 hour ago, Prudence V said:

I’m not surprised students like this, and I’m very surprised any teaching staff do (unless they’re huge classes taught like an assembly line - which is the bottom of the barrel kind of teaching that no one ever wants to do anyway). it would never fly at unis here - unless for a purely attendance-based (no credit) module like attending induction week - because both the students Union and the staff would refuse, and no external examiner would sign off on it. 

I think you misread my post. It's the students who hate it. If they're undergrads, they can't go on to gardute level with a "pass/fail" grade. It also impacts scholarships., etc.

[pepperbird2]

1 hour ago, Prudence V said:

Of course. That’s why collect feedback anonymously - and because the students know we’ll act on it and schedule classes F2F or online (or blended) depending on their preferences, there’s reason for them to be honest about what they’d prefer. 
 

Our students are overwhelmingly “non-traditional” in various ways, mostly working class / economically precarious backgrounds, more not white than white, several older, many with caring responsibilities, and most with work commitments, and a disproportionate number reporting disabilities of various kinds. Most are first-in-family, many from first or second generation migrant households, and a good proportion have vocational rather than academic entry qualifications. Few of them are the typical straight-from-school young people whose sole focus is their studies - the kind of “traditional” student that universities are designed for.
 

So I guess I’m not really surprised at their preferences, although some of my colleagues (who are themselves battling with time, space, technology and resources to do online T&L properly) can’t understand why they would prefer it. But then, from what the students describe of F2F T&L currently (a handful of them widely spaced in huge draughty lecture theatres, struggling to hear lecturers who are wearing visors and classmates who are wearing masks, no hanging about anywhere just briskly moving from venue to venue or sitting far apart in the library in pre-booked seats, or drinking coffee outside in the cold (there are marquees, so at least they’re not getting wet) it doesn’t sound like how campus used to feel just a few months back. 

Our demographics aren't much different, but we have a lot of students here from China, the Caribbean , the USA and Europe. We also have a lot of First Nation's students.

[Prudence V]

14 hours ago, pepperbird2 said:

I think you misread my post. It's the students who hate it. If they're undergrads, they can't go on to gardute level with a "pass/fail" grade. It also impacts scholarships., etc.

😬 oops, I mistyped. I meant to type “I’m not surprised students *don’t* like this, and I’m very surprised any teaching staff do”. Students and staff would both protest - and block - the imposition of such a system here (unless, as I said, for a non-credit, attendance-based only module). 
 

And of course, I was referring to undergrad, honours, and masters degrees. PhD is of course pass/fail (or pass, minor changes, major changes, resubmit, MPhil, or fail, to be more accurate) 

[Emilie Jolie]

On 11/20/2020 at 3:36 PM, Prudence V said:

Few of them are the typical straight-from-school young people whose sole focus is their studies - the kind of “traditional” student that universities are designed for.
 

That's our lot here.

Combine this with skyrocketing uni fees and super tight deadlines for setting up online exams - the stress levels are through the roof for staff and students alike. Not sure the grades they'll get this year will be truly representative of their actual level, in honesty.

Sure, some elements of teaching / studying online are great and we all make it as positive as possible; equally, so many students are missing out on the human interactions and overall 'university experience' they have put themselves into debt for. It's hard not to feel for them.