She's Catholic - He's Jehovah's Witness

[jiminycricket9]

I'm sorry this is long but I wanted to include the background info.

 

Our relationship is overall going absolutely horrible. Off and on in this 3 years as a couple, this relgious difference rears it head to be an issue in our relationship. More for him than me.

 

"She's Catholic"

my family is more tolerant of other religions, cultures etc.

 

my Mother and my whole maternal side of the family is predominantly and DEVOUTLY Catholic. My Dad wasn't raised Christian at all but Hindu, and is for most part these days a believer in a higher power; he leans sort of Buddhist but really just a student of different philosphies. My parents were kind to all people with little religious bias as they raised us and yes, my Dad even did a study with JW's when I was in grade school and he has for 30 years been welcoming and kind whenever a JW has knocked on our door.

 

I went to Catholic School in my younger years and later a Christian school for high school (evidently because it was cheaper:confused: ). Though not as devout as my mom, I have always remained a Catholic and lately have a deeper desire to become more devout. I have deeply Christian faith and because I went to both Catholic school and a non-denominational Protestant Christian School I have spent much of my life really focusing within to be a Good Christian by all standards Catholic or Protestant plus learning that Eastern religions have alot of good thougts to offer us in ways as well as long as I know where my true faith lies.

 

 

My extended family on my maternal side is mostly Catholic. We are a huge family (yes, "typically Catholic big" I guess...). Many of my cousins are like siblings. I have a first cousin and cousin in-law that converted to Jehovah's Witness years ago. On Holiday/Birthday based family gatherings we know we won't see them. Other family members have made remarks but overall our family is welcoming to them and even does our best to avoid having all Holiday/Birthday related gatherings so we can all be together.

 

 

"He's Jehovah's Witness"

 

From an originally Lutheran family, he is the last of 4 siblings and the only one to have been raised JW from birth. He's always said he was the only one raised without birthdays and christmas and it was a struggle for him in his childhood. He always felt like the "freak" (his words) anyway and I'm sure it hurt at first. On top of that he went through alot in school. JW's have deep convictions about war, killing, and the government. This is actually one of the things I respect about them most as far as being pacifists go, however the pacifistic thing is great but some things like not voting I think it's a mistake. And then there are other "minutiaes ."

 

When he was little he was one of the rare little boys REFUSING to pledge allegience to the flag. In his teen years he went to counseling and his Psychologist contended part of the problem was his mom was "too religious." In the last 3 years I have "studied " with JW's and I do respect their intensely deep committment to living according to their biblical interpretations, abiding by the ultimate truths, but somewhere in the wrong minds it can also be taken to extremes.

 

In my bf's mind JW=non-participant in the ways of the world, and often he falls back and uses his Jehovah's Witness-isms for excuses to get out of things. For instance, in the wrong mood he will claim that I am a "greedy, worldy" person with the wrong focus because I want him to get a job. Another example, last xmas instead of an xmas party my one Catholic cousin-in-law called it "A Winter Soiree". My JW cousin and family went. My bf also went. No presents were opened, no Merry Christmas's were exchanged and it was Christmas Eve. We did it all for them. The rest of us are Catholic, mind you but our main priority was to all just be together, and make sure all the kids got to be together, not to force Jesus's bday in the guise of pagan winter solstice on anyone.

 

After that party my bf went on for literally months about how my JW cousin and family were doing "the wrong thing" by going to that party. And D, he constantly uses the JW's not participating in those events as an excuse to avoid my family gatherings constantly now, regardless of whether it's a basic dinner party or anything.

 

All that, and mind you, he is NOT a BAPTIZED JW. JW's must baptize as an adult, after they have thoroughly studied the bible and the teachings of the JW's and understand what they are committing to. He hasn't even done that.

 

While on my end I have spent my entire life raised to be a faithful Christian and have gone through most of my rights of Sacrament by Catholic standards. I'm not perfect but I really avoid throwing stones.

 

Anyway-he does WANT to get baptized, and has again embarked on studying the bible to become baptized. And now he says that my "Catholic" ways will lead him astray .

 

It hurts, you know. It really hurts. Comments welcomed but no bashing anyone's beliefs, ok.

 

Thanks in advance.

[westernxer]

Sounds like you'd be better off dating a Catholic guy.

[jiminycricket9]

Sounds like you'd be better off dating a Catholic guy.

 

 

Wish it was that easy. I love the guy. Sigh...

[crazy_grl]

In my bf's mind JW=non-participant in the ways of the world, and often he falls back and uses his Jehovah's Witness-isms for excuses to get out of things. For instance, in the wrong mood he will claim that I am a "greedy, worldy" person with the wrong focus because I want him to get a job.

 

How lame is that?? There's absolutely no reason he can't get a job. He's using his religion as an excuse to be lazy. There is absolutely nothing that says JWs cannot have jobs. Every JW I've known has had one or more jobs. Yeah, they're not supposed to be greedy or worldly, but a job doesn't make you those things. Didn't his parents work?

 

After that party my bf went on for literally months about how my JW cousin and family were doing "the wrong thing" by going to that party. And D, he constantly uses the JW's not participating in those events as an excuse to avoid my family gatherings constantly now, regardless of whether it's a basic dinner party or anything.

 

So your bf has a double standard. He may be using his religion as an excuse not to see your family, or he may actually feel that he shouldn't be spending time with them. I think though that if he finds it okay to date you, spending time with your family shouldn't be any bigger of an issue.

 

All that, and mind you, he is NOT a BAPTIZED JW. JW's must baptize as an adult, after they have thoroughly studied the bible and the teachings of the JW's and understand what they are committing to. He hasn't even done that.

 

That explains some things. You did say he hasn't even studied right?? If that's the case, I'd take at least 50% of what he says about "his religion" as BS. I'm sure he got some facts and ideas from his parents, but without having studied, he can't understand the things he's trying to explain, and it sounds like he's getting a lot wrong.

 

Anyway-he does WANT to get baptized, and has again embarked on studying the bible to become baptized. And now he says that my "Catholic" ways will lead him astray .

 

If he wants to get baptized and you're not willing to get baptized as well, that could be a major obstacle.

 

I know this is not what you want to hear, but it sounds like your bf is trying to push you away and choose his religion over you. You should talk to him and ask him where he sees the two of you going once he's baptized (which will probably take at least a year or so from when he starts studying).

[westernxer]

While I have no doubt that you love him, I wonder how much you love yourself.

 

He's not going to bend, and it's going to hurt you and your family in the long run. The longer you wait, the harder it's going to be.

[jiminycricket9]

How lame is that?? There's absolutely no reason he can't get a job. He's using his religion as an excuse to be lazy. There is absolutely nothing that says JWs cannot have jobs. Every JW I've known has had one or more jobs. Yeah, they're not supposed to be greedy or worldly, but a job doesn't make you those things. Didn't his parents work?

 

Yes they worked. They worked their behinds off, AND were active in their hall/church on weekends and evenings. My point exactly!

 

So your bf has a double standard. He may be using his religion as an excuse not to see your family, or he may actually feel that he shouldn't be spending time with them. I think though that if he finds it okay to date you, spending time with your family shouldn't be any bigger of an issue.

 

Again I absolutely concur. Not to mention that he has a first wife and 18 year old daughter that are not JW either and in that family he participated at least for the most important events and didn't harp about how inappropriate it was. I have no idea to what degree the ex's family is religiously but none of them went to Catholic school and her parents were felons that lost her when they both went to jail. Double standards is right!

 

 

That explains some things. You did say he hasn't even studied right?? If that's the case, I'd take at least 50% of what he says about "his religion" as BS. I'm sure he got some facts and ideas from his parents, but without having studied, he can't understand the things he's trying to explain, and it sounds like he's getting a lot wrong.

Actually he does study and has his whole life but it's hard to explain. He doesn't go to meetings regularly and barely meets with a congregation. He reads alll the JW literature on his own and reads the bible on his own also. But there is some sort of order they are supposed to read the literature in order to go through the steps to baptism. He hasn't done the steps officially, if that makes any sense.

 

We have discussed him getting baptized and me not, but I am a baptized Catholic and I don't feel that JW is the "one true" religion.

 

If he wants to get baptized and you're not willing to get baptized as well, that could be a major obstacle.

 

I know this is not what you want to hear, but it sounds like your bf is trying to push you away and choose his religion over you. You should talk to him and ask him where he sees the two of you going once he's baptized (which will probably take at least a year or so from when he starts studying).

 

Maybe you are right Crazy Grl. But the reason it hurts for me so much is because I have family whose vastly different religions have co-existed and made it work in relationships and it breaks my heart that he made allowances for his previous marriage and now he will not for me. It hurts alot. Thanks so much for your insight.

 

And to Westernxer

 

RE:

 

While I have no doubt that you love him, I wonder how much you love yourself.

 

He's not going to bend, and it's going to hurt you and your family in the long run. The longer you wait, the harder it's going to be.

 

I was thinking the same thing today. I guess the wound is just starting to rupture is all and I'm pretty bummed because it does seem like it is becoming so obvious.

 

thanks for such honest and insightful replies.

[crazy_grl]

Maybe you are right Crazy Grl. But the reason it hurts for me so much is because I have family whose vastly different religions have co-existed and made it work in relationships and it breaks my heart that he made allowances for his previous marriage and now he will not for me. It hurts alot. Thanks so much for your insight.

 

His choices aren't necessarily a reflection on you. People continually grow and change. His religion might not have been that important to him back then. He may think you're the most amazing woman he's met, but if spirituality is becoming more important to him than relationships at this point, then he's got a really tough decision. Don't bring yourself down by comparing your relationship to his previous marriage, because you might not be comparing the same man.

[quankanne]

lots of people are in interfaith relationships but don't behave like this, but respect each other's differences and try to find ways to meet in the middle to make the relationship work.

 

to me, it sounds like his behavior has less to do with his religious "belief" than to his acting like a lazy, selfish, pompous jackass who expects you to meet his standards, but not be compelled to do the same in this relationship.

[jiminycricket9]

lots of people are in interfaith relationships but don't behave like this, but respect each other's differences and try to find ways to meet in the middle to make the relationship work.

 

to me, it sounds like his behavior has less to do with his religious "belief" than to his acting like a lazy, selfish, pompous jackass who expects you to meet his standards, but not be compelled to do the same in this relationship.

 

Well said. Very well said. And this is what hurts too, because I feel I do know how to meet in the middle. I really do try to not make rash judgements and to quash misconceptions, etc.

 

When I first got involved with him I just assumed JW's were taught to follow very defined boundaries. I thought that because they didn't celebrate birthdays and holidays they were much more prone to be rigid and stern and not laugh.

 

But as I got to know his mother better and spent time with the rest of his family and went to a few "meetings" etc, I started to see that JWs are wonderful, fun loving, caring, giving folks. They still "party" in their own right, just not on a schedule that they don't believe. But my bf on the other hand, sometimes he really just used his "Jehovah's Witness-isms" (as I put it earlier) to justify plain old bad behaviour, negative attitudes, etc.

 

I appreciate that Crazy Grl feels his attitude could all be due to his own struggles and yearn for spiritual growth and if that is the case and he is just confused, fine. I am personally a devotedly faithful and spiritual person who also wants to continue growing spiritually and cultivating my relationship with God. If he needs to follow a path like that genuinely and devotedly I support it. I do mean that, even if his path is different.

 

But he crosses a line. I am only human but I can say I have spent my entire life in Catholic and Christian private schools and Cathecism and Bible Study, conciously raised to be God-fearing and live my life and view the world through the eyes of a good Christian and he goes so far as to accuse me of not knowing the right way, while by the standards of his own beliefs he has not even fulfilled the basics meaning he is not even baptized JW and not in a position to throw stones. He would rather sit at home playing war games on his computer than join my family at dinner. Are war games ok to play when you are of a faith that does not condone fighting mankind's crazy wars?

 

Sigh...

 

Anyway, Quankanne, you have brought up a great point. And one that touches on my frustration and confusion. I do respect him for wanting to be more spiritual but I'm not sure if he realizes that he is using certain things as a crutch to prevent further growth at the same time.

[sweetbrokensoul]

wow-i kind of went through the same thing with my ex also. He was raised a witness and i was raised greek orthodox. I am still studying the Bible for truth but do not go to the church often. When I met him, he was not an active JW, he actually didn't tell me he was raised like that for a couple months and then decided he wanted to start studying again. But I didn't understand alot about the religion and it was hard for us.

 

He was living with me and raising my son like his own. When he decided to go back to studying, he moved out and completely ignored us. For a couple months. We tried to be friends, we would end up "sinning" and he would be feeling guilty for being together. I then tried to study with a sister and went before that went to a couple meetings with him, and studied with him.

 

THe thing is, I felt rushed and I didn't believe everything they beleived in. I was willing to compromise and support him fully but he was not. It caused alot of heartache and pain. He moved out in May, last time we were together was Sept and I am still grieving badly.

 

I felt it was very selfish of him to start a relationship like that and knowing he was raised a JW, and he would eventually start studying again, he should've told me from the beginning. When he lived with me, he had a low-paying job, no car, and participated in some "worldly" hobbies. But I supported him no matter what, I was there for him, through the good and bad, and now I'm not good enough for him because of his religion. I felt very used. My son grew very attached to him and called him "Dad".

 

The whole situation turned me off from organized religion and I feel better studying the Bible and seeking my peace with God at my own pace. If you don't think that he will change and compromise, it's better to move on now. I know it's hard. I know you love him. But there has to be compromise. It's funny because my ex's mom is married to a non-JW and they seem to work it out but they also aren't raising their children anymore. And that can be a BIG issue for future possibilities among other things.

 

Good Luck and my prayers are with you.

[dancer32]

Jiminy.....you have just told the story of my life....I'm catholic....my bf is JW too and we are going through this struggle right now. I don't know what to do either.....what is the status with you and your bf? are you still together or not? any advice from someone who is going through it would be helpful!

[jiminycricket9_again]

Jiminy.....you have just told the story of my life....I'm catholic....my bf is JW too and we are going through this struggle right now. I don't know what to do either.....what is the status with you and your bf? are you still together or not? any advice from someone who is going through it would be helpful!

 

Dancer and MichiganGirl -

 

Thank you both for your interest and for relating so deeply to this situation. Forgive my late reply. There is something wrong with my log-in and I can't retrieve my password so again I'm replying as a guest.

 

Yes so far my BF are still together. Ironically my bf is currently going through a strange loss right now. He went to some websites/forums that have him thinking in a new vein. I won't go into this in detail here as I do not want to offend anyone.

 

Anyway, the end result of his "research" is he that he feels that he was raised JW and does believe in many of the beliefs/doctrines, but he really questions the "organization" and isn't sure he feels willing to baptise because it means he has more chance of losing favor or becoming "disfellowshiped" or losing contact with his family from messing-up than if he didn't get baptized at all. He's very confused and wants something to believe in but doesn't want to believe in anything blindly. I respect him for that but I don't know where it will go. It's strange because even though I'm not JW I really feel a deep respect for his need to cultivate his spiritual side. Also as far as us relating, I do believe he might have gained the knowledge (from reading that message board) that Catholics and JWs are actually "somewhat similiar" in strange ways.

 

This leads me to what I want you both to keep in mind. It is insight that he pointed out to me regarding himself. Knowing that you to are in the same boat I think you will both understand. He mentioned something a few weeks back about "JW Guilt." It's funny how so many religions have it. We ALL know about Catholic guilt I'm sure....

 

But the thing he really pointed out that has been a constant issue in our love is the holidays thing. His extreme guilt if he does partake in holiday celebrations. He says he is trying to shed it but that I'll never understand that to the JW or even someone just merely raised JW, they might feel as guilty about partaking in a holiday as they would feel guilt over any "sin." All I know is that the last several years I have walked on eggshells for holidays. I have felt alone on holidays. And Christmas and celebrations are a very happy important part of my life. I don't know whether he will continue divorcing himself from his JW beliefs. I don't want him to lose faith as a Christian all together and I feel bad for him that he feels torn. But it sucks because when he is pursuing to become "legit" in the religion he was raised as the differences between us hurt me inside and there is a lot of "grinning and bearing."

 

But so far our love has continued to make it work. And our inherent faith and need to be good Christians has bonded us. It's the specifics that are harder and pretty much we take each one, one specific at a time. Hopefully this makes sense. Keep me posted. Let me know how you are too. Thanks.

[dancer32]

That helped me jiminy but I don't think my bf will even consider looking up any kind of info about this on the net like yours. If I even suggest it he'll bite my head off about it. It makes me mad too. Not because of his wanting to be back into church but because he's not even trying to meet me in the middle. I don't want to spend the holidays, birthdays, etc. without my other half and what if we have kids? I asked him tonight if he would rather break up than compromise and he said " I guess we should break up then cause there is no compromising this" now he's playing video games....I don't think he has any comprehension towrds this situation at all and I don't think he cares. I don't wanna break up over this but if he's not going to even give it a chance I don't see a point in a future with us. What do you think?

[whichwayisup]

It's hard to change someone when it's all they know and believe in. (about the holidays) Things you need to think about that are important to you and can you bend on them:

 

Birthdays. If you do end up having children with him. No birthdays, Halloween, Christmas will be celebrated. Can you deal with that? Is it fair to your child?

 

Blood Transfusions. No need to get into a debate about this one as I am sure many have their thoughts and feelings on it... But, how do you feel about it. Again, the children issue.

 

Can love be enough here? Compromise is usually a give and take thing but sadly in your situation I don't see it happening. It's not fair for either of you to give up your religion and belief system - Though usually one bends. I would hate to see in the future resentments build up because of it. You know what I mean?

 

Anyway, the end result of his "research" is he that he feels that he was raised JW and does believe in many of the beliefs/doctrines, but he really questions the "organization"

 

Do you mean the political side of his religion? The people incharge? Just wondering.

 

I hope you both can come to some sort of middle ground together, with the help of both of your families, work together and find a solution.

[sweetbrokensoul]

Hi,

 

I have not talked to my ex in a month! And I am feeling like I am finally accepting the break-up and living each day in a very different and happy way. If he wanted to be with my son and I-he would have made those compromises and realized that I too would like to serve God and I feel sorry for anyone that follows an organization like the Watchtower that has so much mind control its sickening.

 

Sorry-but its true. I just hope he is happy and does continue to study-maybe something will click in his brain. But as for me-I'm done with him. He hurt us badly and just left us like we were nothing. Yeah, I'm sure Jehovah would have approved of that! i truly loved him and if he felt the same way he wouldn't have left for trying to serve God. God is love. I would have supported him but he didn't want to give us a chance. He was all for the organization and "GOD" (and his mom). Sad.

 

At least I know that now. I still love him though.

[jiminy_xmas]

It's hard to change someone when it's all they know and believe in. (about the holidays) Things you need to think about that are important to you and can you bend on them:

 

Birthdays. If you do end up having children with him. No birthdays, Halloween, Christmas will be celebrated. Can you deal with that? Is it fair to your child?

 

Blood Transfusions. No need to get into a debate about this one as I am sure many have their thoughts and feelings on it... But, how do you feel about it. Again, the children issue.

 

Can love be enough here? Compromise is usually a give and take thing but sadly in your situation I don't see it happening. It's not fair for either of you to give up your religion and belief system - Though usually one bends. I would hate to see in the future resentments build up because of it. You know what I mean?

 

 

 

Do you mean the political side of his religion? The people incharge? Just wondering. Yes

 

I hope you both can come to some sort of middle ground together, with the help of both of your families, work together and find a solution.

 

Sorry again I haven't been able to reply. Hearing what everyone is going through is so familiar. Dancer and Michigangirl - I'm sorry and believe me I feel your pain. Just because my bf is questioning things, it is a very new road and one that might not make as much of a difference as I'd want. ex-JWs that were raised it don't suddenly realize inherently that Christmas is a beautiful time of giving when we can be Christ-like. They go through issues, questions, roadblocks....

 

Whichwayis up - about your post, it is so well put and explained. Thank you for that.

 

Honestly folks, we who date them must know that a "devout" JW or even someone who was raised it, is from a different world as we. It's a world where troll dolls, and smurfs are unacceptble toys to give children. A world where giving and receiving don't come from the heart but should be questioned because Satan is everywhere and the simplest things might be one of his tricks.

 

They have their reasons. I withold from bashing their beliefs. I can tell you that I am witmessing first hand however, how difficult it is to overcome the thoughts and beliefs a person grows up with.

 

Of late, my bf is still newly against the Watchtower Organization. He is trying to explore how it's "ruined" him (his words) and he deeply feels that his family is a victim of a "cult" and in turn he was raised "broken." He's feeling tremendous loss and he is imposing extra loss on himself because he deeply fears his family will shun him due to his lack of following their "truths." I feel bad for him. And sadly I see or think I see many of the ways they have led his thought processes to go astray the way he says. So in other words, even though he has against being baptized JW and following the watchtower doctrine, the road continues to be rocky because he is essentially re-learning spiritual faith and beliefs all over again. This puts him in conflict with himself while concurrently still having the tendency to question others in suspect that it is "worldly ."

 

I know you ladies in the same situation loved your men enough to think you were ready to meet them half-way and it sucks that they were not. ONe thing i can say to you both though, is that their core beliefs are vastly differnt from ours and it would have been a very deep struggle had you remained together.

 

Happy Holidays...

[CRealityCheck_JW]

I am not only voicing my opinion, I am begging people not to make this mistake. If you don't mind ruining your own life think about the children you will probably have.

I have been married for 20 years for the last 15 my husband reverted to his JW teachings and has systematically moved all the way up to elder status.

 

My son is constantly being drug to meetings and counseled to avoid Christmas, Birthdays and family that are "worldly" including me. My husband won't even visit with relatives on Holidays, and actuallay threw a Christmas present back at my mother and yelled at her. My poor son knows that all of his prviledges are gone if he opposes his dad and even fears that he will lose his father's love if he disagrees openly.

My husband tells my son that I have lower standards and undermines me in many very passive aggressive ways. Such as; when he disciplines my son he takes away Christmas gifts and birthday presents first.

 

When I tried to change his mind about all of this he had already been counseled to expect opposition from family members that were being "controlled by Satan". It gave him more resolve and satisfaction the more distraught I became.

 

I am telling you this has been a nightmare, and had to finally decide to just hang in there, inject reality into my son's life every day and not have any more kids in the relationship that could be hurt. Let me tell you that I had to become strong about invoking my rights as a parent and a person to continue with my traditions and family relationships. W even have battles about school, friends, activities, sports involvement, clubs, sleepovers.... you name it!

 

JW's have cost me love, no more children and has cost my son much more including no brothers and sisters.

 

Luckily my son listens to me and thinks his dad is being sadly misled now that he is 15. But your children may not be as level headed, you could actually lose them to this controlling religion that is based on fear.

 

Just think about it. I knew my husband since I was 24, we decided to get married when I was 30, adopted a son at 35 and three years later he started this conversion with encouragement from his family who also reverted.

 

You never know when this stuff will crop back up! Think, be smart, and remember that you, your children and your future are WORTH something more than the pain you could/will be buying into.