Further thoughts on my friend who's a terrible planner

[TheEternalPessimist]

Hey guys, a few weeks ago I opened this topic and realized I had some more thoughts about the situation I wanted to share and maybe get some advice.

It may be a case where my friend is simply like that, maybe she can't help herself, maybe she's just that kind of poor planner with everyone. I don't know because we don't have any friends in common and I never spoke about her to one of her family members (essentially talked behind her back) to learn some useful things maybe. However, if I just dismiss and fake-pretend I tolerate that, I feel like I'm encouraging her poor behavior and almost rewarding it even at that point. I don't know what to make of it, it's not like I spend my whole day thinking about that but still it's annoying. For example, her waiting a full 3 days to give me a response when she previously asked me to tell her when I would be there is unacceptable to me. The fact that she pushed the hang out at the last minute does feel a little bit like she couldn't be bothered but still wanted it to be done so I wouldn't make a big deal out of it potentially. I'm not even sure what to do about it overall because speaking about it to her just opens the door for more disagreements, more misunderstandings and potential fights.

To be fair, I don't even know how or why we stayed friends, why she's sticking with me. We lived together for 4 months only, she could have easily deleted me from her phone contacts and never message me again. For some reason, we kept it going and we kept it going mostly because of her like when she invited me over for Christmas. I wish I could ask her about that but that's also a very weird and ungrateful question to ask someone. 

And then there's also this bachelor work she told me she would like to have proofread, I offered my help, she told me she would send it to me the following weekend. It's been almost a month and I haven't heard back from her. 

Lots of weirdness when it comes to this friendship is the best way to describe it. We get along great when we hang out but her planning is abysmal and I feel like she's sending me mixed signals at time. 

[elaine567]

Three words - TAKE THE HINT.

[TheEternalPessimist]

You keep writing that without ever actually explaining what that magical hint is.. ^^ Hints are childish and make things worse in the long-run, case in point. 

Edited September 19, 2020 by TheEternalPessimist

[DarrenB]

Sure she appears to have been pretty disorganized at times and not chosen the best approaches judging by what you've said previously, but it still doesn't take away from the fact that you feel particularly entitled to her and within her life. 

At this point you are being too demanding and assuming she owes you something that she doesn't. Early 20's causes a lot of stress for a lot of people, so it's understandable that she may get caught up in other things. People raincheck, people forget, people become negligent... sometimes you can't help it and nothing you try to do will prevent that. You can either accept it happens or continue with the outbursts.

Edited September 19, 2020 by DarrenB

[TheEternalPessimist]

There were hardly any outbursts, I had an "outburst" once about a year ago when I sent her an audio message, she listened to it, acknowledged what I said, recognized her mistakes and apologized. Now she handled a similar situation just as poorly. All I'm asking is for her to be a little more responsible especially when she asks me when I'll be in her country only to then leave me hanging for a full 3 days knowing I'm only there for a limited time. If you're going to ask someone when they'll be there, don't wait 3 day to reply back or if you know you will then don't ask me when I'll be there. 

[elaine567]

2 hours ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

there's also this bachelor work she told me she would like to have proofread, I offered my help, she told me she would send it to me the following weekend.
It's been almost a month and I haven't heard back from her. 

^^^this is a hint...

[Wiseman2]

She is not as serious as you are. You have 2 choices. End the friendship or accept that she's flaky /sporadic. You are not a priority to her, so just scale back your expectations.

[TheEternalPessimist]

44 minutes ago, elaine567 said:

^^^this is a hint...

No it's not, she's starting a business school, she just moved in to her new apartment, I expect her to have other things going on. The issue here again is her saying one thing and then turning around and doing something else. 

[TheEternalPessimist]

23 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

She is not as serious as you are. You have 2 choices. End the friendship or accept that she's flaky /sporadic. You are not a priority to her, so just scale back your expectations.

Like I wrote about 10 times before, I do not expect to be a priority to her. This is not what this is about. 

[elaine567]

37 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

No it's not, she's starting a business school, she just moved in to her new apartment, I expect her to have other things going on.

Of course it is a hint, you are just making excuses for her apparent disinterest in you..
BUT have you considered she doesn't want your input, hence her going MIA for a month once you made your offer to proofread her stuff...
IF she truly wanted your help she would have contacted you right away, no? 
 

[TheEternalPessimist]

If she didn't want my input, that's fine, she could have said it right away and she had plenty of opportunities to say it afterwards even. Instead, she said she would send it to me. Again, if you don't want to do something, don't say you will do it, don't send mixed signals like that. 

[ShyViolet]

5 hours ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

No it's not, she's starting a business school, she just moved in to her new apartment, I expect her to have other things going on. The issue here again is her saying one thing and then turning around and doing something else. 

I'm starting to see a major pattern here.  You make these posts saying that you "want advice", but every single time someone comments on your post, you reject what they say, give excuses, and counter-arguments.  I don't understand why you post here.

[Watercolors]

9 hours ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

Lots of weirdness when it comes to this friendship is the best way to describe it. We get along great when we hang out but her planning is abysmal and I feel like she's sending me mixed signals at time. 

I had a friend like yours. She would be late to EVERYTHING that she was scheduled to show up at. Doesn't matter who it was for: me, our mutual friends, her work. Her work cubicle was piled high with papers and staplers, like the character Milton from that 90s movie "Office Space." Her house was a hoarder's dream. Her car looked like a junkyard inside it. Wherever she went, she hoarded. 

After putting up with her hoarding and late behavior for years, I decided that feeling like an "option" to her crazy time schedule just wasn't worth it. The straw that broke the camel's back for me, was when she was 2 hours late to my birthday dinner. Her excuse? She had to feed her 3 cats after work. Not a good excuse. I had cats at the same time, and that didn't cause me to be late to my own birthday dinner. I ended my friendship with her at my birthday dinner, by telling her, she was too late in the literal and figurative sense, and that I was sick and tired of the way her sense of entitlement created chaos around socializing with her. I could never depend on her, for anything. 

You have to decide if this friend is someone you want to waste your time with. Since you don't have mutual friends and she doesn't live with you, she owes you nothing and you owe her nothing. I say, just end the friendship. She is clearly not contributing anything positive to your life. So, why keep someone like that around if all they do is annoy you? She won't change. Neither will you. You've tried to compromise with her but her actions show you, she doesn't really care what you think. So, pay attention to her behavior. People's behavior is the true evidence of how they feel about us. If she's being a flake, ignoring your requests, then no, you are and never have been, someone she prioritizes as an important friend to you. You are young. Dispose of her NOW. Leave that space in your mind and heart open for another female friend who will prioritize your friendship. 

[TheEternalPessimist]

14 minutes ago, ShyViolet said:

I'm starting to see a major pattern here.  You make these posts saying that you "want advice", but every single time someone comments on your post, you reject what they say, give excuses, and counter-arguments.  I don't understand why you post here.

That's because the advice that people like you give is not constructive, it's passive-aggressive and arrogant attacks disguised as "advice" when they aren't pathetic attempts to pin the blame on me for everything. 

[ShyViolet]

47 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

That's because the advice that people like you give is not constructive, it's passive-aggressive and arrogant attacks disguised as "advice" when they aren't pathetic attempts to pin the blame on me for everything. 

Ok.  If you say so.  It's not just me, it's everyone.  You make a post and then you proceed to get defensive, and reject and refute everything that everyone says.  It's just a strange dynamic for an advice message board.

[TheEternalPessimist]

47 minutes ago, ShyViolet said:

Ok.  If you say so.  It's not just me, it's everyone.  You make a post and then you proceed to get defensive, and reject and refute everything that everyone says.  It's just a strange dynamic for an advice message board.

I don't reject it, I bring up certain points and clarify things which opens up new discussion sometimes, that's it. 

[Wiseman2]

Agree, there are people who simply think plans and punctuality are for other people. They are a day late a dollar short. In this case she very casual about things. 

[Watercolors]

2 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

Agree, there are people who simply think plans and punctuality are for other people. They are a day late a dollar short. In this case she very casual about things. 

Exactly. And, OP, your friend is this way. She really doesn't think her method of planning and being late is a big deal to anyone b/c she doesn't consider anyone else's feelings. Trying to get someone like that to see the error of their ways is, well, futile. If that is not something you can accept about her personality, then yeah, you need to end the friendship. Otherwise, you will have to tolerate it as one of your friend's quirks. 

[Dork Vader]

12 hours ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

You keep writing that without ever actually explaining what that magical hint is.. ^^ Hints are childish and make things worse in the long-run, case in point. 

We can't judge her based on just your side of the story it's simply not fair to the third party. That said, if you're not happy with the friendship and can not accept the friendship for what it is, move on with your life. Some people are organized and on point with everything, other people not so much. You can either accept them as they are and for what they do or move on.

I have friends I have invited to concerts in which I purchased the tickets, they would agree then 2 hours before flake. I would be stuck going by myself often with a ticket that cost $300+. Guess what I no longer do, invite them to go to concerts, I'm still friends with them. I simply accept that they are unreliable and hang out with them when I can and when it works.That is how you deal with people who are unreliable, disorganized and so on, only participate with them in ways that you can without sacrificing your happiness. If it means you no longer making plans with them, then stop doing it. You can still invite them to do things with you, but don't be surprised if they don't show up. If they make a big deal out of why you no longer make plans with them, simply say you're unreliable and flaky. Some of the people I quit inviting to concerts have asked me if I would take them to concerts they really wanted to see. You know what I told them? I did not have extra tickets, but if they wanted to buy their own and attend with us they could.

I have friendships with people who have all sorts of problems for different reasons. I can still find joy in the friendship, I set have boundaries and avoid allowing their problems to become mine. 

Edited September 19, 2020 by Dork Vader

[TheEternalPessimist]

Setting boundaries with people that are completely unreliable is about the toughest thing to do because that's one of the key factors in a friendship: Being a reliable person. Don't you feel though like you're being somewhat of a useful idiot for their flaky behaviors when you hang out with them even after they did things like flake before a concert?

[Watercolors]

30 minutes ago, TheEternalPessimist said:

Setting boundaries with people that are completely unreliable is about the toughest thing to do because that's one of the key factors in a friendship: Being a reliable person. Don't you feel though like you're being somewhat of a useful idiot for their flaky behaviors when you hang out with them even after they did things like flake before a concert?

I'm different than Dork Vader. I have cut ties with unreliable, flaky friends because to me, that is definitely not my definition of friendship.

I will not tolerate being flaked on by anyone. That's just not acceptable behavior from a friend. From a very, VERY casual acquaintance its tolerable...once. (Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.) But flaking is not acceptable behavior from someone who is supposedly a 'friend.' 

So everyone has their own threshold for what they will endure with people they want to be friends with. 

You have to decide what your threshold is, then uphold it with people. Otherwise, they can't read your mind. So it's your responsibility to verbally set your boundaries with people. If someone makes plans with me then cancels at the last minute, I'm done with them. Really. Unless they are in a horrific accident, or someone in their family died, or their car broke down...there are exceptions to the "don't flake on Watercolors" rule. But if you cancel because you got a better offer, or you don't want to hang out, consider yourself cut from the Watercolors team. 

 

[TheEternalPessimist]

Believe me, part of me would like to cut ties with her right now and be done with it but it's not that simple and it wouldn't feel right. In general, I try to avoid putting up with people's bulls*** for too long, I used to be way too nice and forgiving when I was younger and had numerous people take advantage of my forgiveness. But contrary to them, my friend, when she made a mistake, actually apologized and didn't try to pin the blame on me (now whether she apologized to make me happy or whether she genuinely meant it, I will likely never know). I have thus decided not to contact her for a while and see how she reacts, I hope she makes the first move and shows me that our friendship matters to her. The ball is in her court now, as far as I'm concerned. 

[LivingWaterPlease]

On 9/19/2020 at 7:46 PM, TheEternalPessimist said:

Setting boundaries with people that are completely unreliable is about the toughest thing to do because that's one of the key factors in a friendship: Being a reliable person. Don't you feel though like you're being somewhat of a useful idiot for their flaky behaviors when you hang out with them even after they did things like flake before a concert?

That's one of the key factors in a friendship to you. Either it's not a key factor to her OR if it is, she doesn't consider that you have that close a friendship. To me, you sound parental toward her. Which is not a good pattern for a friendship. You also sound rigid in your relationship with her. I believe you will argue, "It's not rigid because whatever...." But, to me, you do sound rigid. People who are free-spirited and independent sometimes chafe when relating closely with people who try to control their behavior. From what you've written she's been courteous when you've, what seems to me to be the case, reprimanded what you deem as poor behavior from her.

I'm not saying she's perfect and you're flawed. I'm just noticing you are very different types of people. Your styles don't fit together. Best to either adjust your expectations of her or find other friends and take the hints she's been giving you. She's just not into your friendship nearly as much as you are, if at all.

It happens to all of us. I have lots of friends, and folks who want to be my friends that I don't choose to fit in who are nice people. But, guess what? There are also people I'd like to be friends with who don't take to my friendship style (IOW, for whatever reasons they don't seem to want to spend time with me), either. Happens to all of us. The ones who will be great friends are those with whom it clicks for both parties in the friendship. Best not to chase people who don't make time for you and keep the dates as it would be a waste of time. I spend my time with friends I enjoy enough to be reliable with who also enjoy me enough to be reliable with me, too! And if someone begins to seem too demanding for me I usually back away from the person. Doesn't mean they're not an interesting person, just that it doesn't work for me. There are lots of other people in this world and they will find others their friendship style is compatible with.

[TheEternalPessimist]

So you don't consider being reliable as an important element in any friendship? Granted, not everyone has my expectations but if she is even half as unreliable with her other friends as she is with me, she is bound to lose some friends and someone is bound to call her out on her behavior at some point unless all her friends are just like her when it comes to that which I honestly have a hard time believing. 

I didn't reprimand what I saw as poor behavior, I reprimanded what WAS in fact poor behavior on her part. When you decide to meet someone just to talk about exams then you leave that person hanging for over a week AND wait for them to contact you first just to tell them basically "oops sorry too late, I'm already in another country", I see that as dishonest behavior at best and I would even argue it's unacceptable to some extent. Her doing stuff like that and waiting less than 24 hours before I leave her country to text me is why I'm distancing myself for the time being. If she truly cares about me, she will contact me on her own eventually, that's how I view it now anyways. 

Edited September 21, 2020 by TheEternalPessimist

[stillafool]

On 9/19/2020 at 7:04 AM, TheEternalPessimist said:

You keep writing that without ever actually explaining what that magical hint is.. ^^ Hints are childish and make things worse in the long-run, case in point. 

The Hint is she no longer cares about or wants the friendship and is showing you this by her actions.  Why do you still care?  She could care less and has moved on.