Silent treatment - how to get my stuff back?

[astutise]

So I've been dating a guy for 3 months now. I ended it a few days ago and finally the anxiety has started to lift, not having to tread on egg shells and fear withdrawal of communication/affection.

He is late 30s. At first - obviously - he was very sweet, kind, attentive and lovely. 

Then the first disagreement happened...and oh my god, I was so shocked at his tantrum. He was so venomous and mean-spirited, using things i told him in confidence to tear me down. I stayed mostly silent because he would just talk over me/insult me and it felt helpless and pointless to have a voice. Then he refused to talk to me, refused to come near me and for a whole week after, was like a broken record repeating to me that its all my fault, that i'm mean, that unless I think of something constructive to say to resolve it, he didn't want to speak to me. He also threatened me that he would get his family's opinion on the disagreement and if they agreed with him, then he 'would not back down'.

I mean....wtf?

Looking back that should have been the moment I bolted. 

There were then more arguments dotted along the way similar to this and each time, after raging, he would give me silent treatment and refuse to talk to me and insist its all my fault, he's mad at me, i caused all of this etc etc. 

Finally, I stopped being a pushover and got rid. Now he has things of mine at his which I want back and I sent a polite message asking what would be the best way to collect them and he is as usual, ignoring me. I'm tempted to message him to say - listen, you can ignore me for the rest of your life once i get MY possessions, they belong to me and i want them back but what's the point. He'll just respond with insults, accusations and then more silent treatment. So what do I do? I have the number of a friend of his but I only met him once and don't really want to involve him as the guy i dated is very difficult and it seems messy.....a part of me thinks just let the items go, it doesn't matter but actually, they were pretty expensive and my favourite dresses/hoodie and I really would like them back. 

Any thoughts? 

 

[Fletch Lives]

The things are replaceable and  probably not worth losing your sanity over.

[schlumpy]

I suspect he is holding on to them because he hasn't accepted that you have dumped him. He is used to his SO giving in and "seeing" things his way. You are outside his experience.

If you are afraid of him or what might happen then involve the police.

I don't know if you want to warn him. He could trash your possessions if he knows what is coming and is vindictive enough. You will have to make judgement call on that because you know him.

Some people do not deserve the chance to do the right thing.

[astutise]

So I received a reply asking me to tell him my address so he can post them to me. A bit surprised at this but hey, didn't want to question it so i gave it and said thanks. My worrying was for nothing, turns out. 

[ExpatInItaly]

26 minutes ago, astutise said:

So I received a reply asking me to tell him my address so he can post them to me. A bit surprised at this but hey, didn't want to question it so i gave it and said thanks. My worrying was for nothing, turns out. 

I wouldn't have questioned it either. Let him post your items, and then you can be done with him. 

I'm curious about one thing, though - after 3 months of dating, he didn't know where you live? 

[astutise]

ExpatInItaly - We live in different cities and he came to visit twice, the rest of the time we met up either half-way or in the Capital, where he has a second home. He has my address but now I know what he is like, I suspect he is too lazy to search for it on whatsapp using the search feature. He doesn't really make an effort unless he wants to make a really good impression on someone who he thinks is 'worthy', like friends of his that he wants to get in with because they work for a really big corporation. 

[Wiseman2]

3 hours ago, astutise said:

he has things of mine at his which I want back and I sent a polite message asking what would be the best way to collect them and he is as usual, ignoring me. they were pretty expensive and my favourite dresses/hoodie and I really would like them back. 

 

 

As long as you put this in writing, he can't ignore it. Considering you stayed in a violent situation, he may destroy stuff, even though that is technically illegal. Send a certified letter list a specific day/time when you collect your things. Bring a friend or a peace officer. Stop communicating with him otherwise. You may have to cut your losses if he is as violent/crazy as you depicted.

[nospam99]

Don't trust ''I will post your stuff''. Give him ONE AND ONLY ONE chance to provide details about when and how he will post: date, packaging, INSURANCE, supporting documentation from post office. If his answers are not totally satisfactory, try to involve the police (they may not be willing). Ask the police if they can treat this as robbery or blackmail. Show up at his place WITH a cop and enough boxes and bags to pack up all your stuff. If he says he has already posted, demand to see the documentation. Then get a restraining order.

[astutise]

Gosh, do people really think the last 2 replies are a possibility?

I don't know if my lack of detail in my original post made it seem misleading but he's never been physically violent. More verbally abusive, silent treatment, accusatory, sulking, demeaning using my vulnerable stuff i told him in confidence against me, passive aggressive - all whenever he doesn't get his own way/feels like he's been slighted in any way. Much like a toddler throwing his toys out of the pram.

I'll give him a couple of days to post the stuff then check in on the progress if i don't hear anything - if there's any bother, I'm just tempted to cut my losses and block him. I work pretty demanding job in healthcare and honestly don't have room for more emotional aggravation, things are already strained at work due to COVID.

[ExpatInItaly]

3 minutes ago, astutise said:

Gosh, do people really think the last 2 replies are a possibility?

No, as you would not be granted a restraining order at this point anyway. Yes, this guy is hostile and a jerk, but as far as I can see, he has not actually threatened you nor started showing up where he's not wanted and trying to intimidate you. There is no basis for a restraining order here so no, I don't think attempting to seek one would go anywhere at this stage.

However, I wouldn't necessarily put it past him to destroy your items or otherwise hold them "hostage." Ask him to send you the postal receipt indicating the date of shipment and other relevant details. 

[introverted1]

I think involving the police over a favorite dress and a hoodie is way over the top.

He's said he will post the stuff so, hopefully, that's what he'll do.  If he doesn't, I'd leave it alone and buy a new dress.

[poppyfields]

Too late now, but if me I would not have given him my address. 

Guy has a tendency to become unhinged and franky you don't know what he's capable of at this point.  

His calm demeanor now in saying he will mail, could be a mask for underlying hostility, the calm before the storm.  

This happened to me, I was stalked and harassed for nearly two years by a man I dated briefly and rejected.  

Not trying to scare you but his verbal abuse (verbal attacks, withdrawal of affection/silent treatment) all fall under the umbrella of "abuse."  

And abuse escalates.

Anyway, since he does have your address, all you can do is wait and see if he sends.

If he doesn't, it could be considered theft so notify the police.

If you receive the items destroyed that is also a crime.  

OR you might want to let the whole thing go and chalk it up to expensive lesson learned.

Which is what I would personally do.  And have!  

I'm sorry this happened and hope you're okay.  Hugs. 

Edited September 20, 2020 by poppyfields

[d0nnivain]

Unless the stuff you want back is worth thousands of dollars, do not involve the police.  They don't have time for petty stuff. 

hopefully he'll mail your stuff.  If you don't get it in a few days, go over there.  Knock On the dooor & say can I please have my stuff.  It's not that hard.  

[astutise]

I'm getting really scared and feel horrible now, I really hope things do not escalate.

I've already been feeling the effects of the verbal and emotional abuse - had a counselling session on saturday and she said that its not surprising i feel drained and anxious because for several weeks, I've gone unheard and manipulation and gaslighting was used to make me always succumb whenever disagreements arose. It all started with i guess my facial expression looking a bit sad at a restaurant when he interrupted me for the umpteenth time while i was trying to talk and he lashed out, saying my sad face is making him look like a monster and that its embarrassed him and made everyone else - fellow diners and waiters - uncomfortable and i've shown him up. I was so shocked I said that's ridiculous, no-one even cared and if my face looked sad, i dont owe it to fellow stranger diners to smile for them! He refused to talk to me, or go near him and then relentlessly insisted I was mean and unkind and his family agreed when he told them the story (i've never met them) that he didn't deserve to be humiliated in public - and that they are very objective and honest and so they would tell the truth,  and unless i can say anything constructive, he didn't want to hear from me. I'd told him a bit about how i don't get along with my family as they are dysfunctional, religious and conservative and very controlling and he brought that up and said 'maybe that's how YOU were raised in YOUR family to publicly embarrass someone but its not how I was' and i just kept asking, but why am i not allowed to be sad if i am upset and my facial expression is not strangers' concern - to me publicly embarrassing someone is yelling, making a scene, threatening, using offensive language, stomping off....not - someone looking momentarily sad. He ignored every response of mine and stayed rigid with his argument. The next arguments happened similarly and i slowly became more and more anxious and terrified of what new thing will trigger something next, where i would then have a week of relentless accusations and silent treatment thrown in between. 

I'm really glad I got out relatively early on but I'm still shocked at how even a few weeks' of putting up with this, and somehow beginning to believe it, has caused so much anxiety to surge in me and i feel like I'm not worthy of being heard, or having emotions or that i have any claims to needs at all. 

Sorry, this has all just been building and it just came to a head this evening, i needed to just get it out....I'm feeling like i dont know what to d with myself, i've ordered some comfort food and putting netflix in. Just feel sad and confused and constantly going over in my head whether i DO deserve it, and all the details of everything - second guessing myself, did i do such horrible things to him and not even realise? did i look sad and is this a cause for someone to be so mad at you like he was with me? Did  handle it all terribly and everything is my fault and somehow i can't see it? I just don't feel like i know truth or reality anymore. 

Edited September 20, 2020 by astutise

[astutise]

34 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

Unless the stuff you want back is worth thousands of dollars, do not involve the police.  They don't have time for petty stuff. 

hopefully he'll mail your stuff.  If you don't get it in a few days, go over there.  Knock On the dooor & say can I please have my stuff.  It's not that hard.  

The thing is, he has 2 homes in 2 different cities, neither of which I live in, where he splits his week. I never know when he will be in one city or the other until he tells me so if i do want to turn up unanccounced, its nearly 4 hours travelling distance there and back to either city and don't know when he will be in. 

My stuff isn't worth thousands, no. I don't care at this point in the evening, my anxiety has flared up and even if they were worth thousands, it wouldn't be worth it to have another dose of anxiety. 

[stillafool]

In the future never let a man talk to you this way.  When he starts spewing garbage at you get up and leave.  No matter where you are always have money to leave.

[d0nnivain]

How horrible for you.  What a ridiculous overreaction.  It's good that he's out of your life. 

It's just stuff.  Buy more & don't look back. 

Going forward in your next relationship don't leave stuff you care about at an SOs when you are only 90 days in. 

[poppyfields]

20 minutes ago, stillafool said:

In the future never let a man talk to you this way.  When he starts spewing garbage at you get up and leave.  No matter where you are always have money to leave.

Yes this^^, immediate dealbreaker.  No second chances with mental/emotional abuse like that, no giving "benefit of the doubt."  

Next time, NO sad face, no words defending yourself, just politely excuse yourself, get up and leave!  

Then block so he has no access to you.

Huge lesson learned here, HUGE!  

Let the stuff go.  They're just "things."

Your emotional well being is much more important.

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2020 by poppyfields

[ExpatInItaly]

32 minutes ago, astutise said:

. Just feel sad and confused and constantly going over in my head whether i DO deserve it, and all the details of everything - second guessing myself, did i do such horrible things to him and not even realise? did i look sad and is this a cause for someone to be so mad at you like he was with me? Did  handle it all terribly and everything is my fault and somehow i can't see it? I just don't feel like i know truth or reality anymore. 

I dated a guy like some years ago. He would lose his mind over the seemingly most innocuous of gestures, rant for hours, stay angry and sulk and go on verbal tirades. Anything that could have been remotely perceived as the faintest of slights against him would trigger him. Heaven forbid if anyone tried to reason with him when he was in one of his emotional sh*tstorms. And then, seemingly out of nowhere, he would suddenly be fine again.

It was the most confusing and destabilizing period of my life as I tried to figure out what the heck was going on with this guy. I didn't stick around long. I later learned why he behaved so erratically, was such an emotionally volatile character - and it had zero to do with me. Just as this guy's disproportionate reactions have nothing to do with you. I bet any money that this is just who he is and that you're nowhere near the first to be the target of his instability. 

Thank your lucky stars it was so short-lived. 

 

[astutise]

8 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

I dated a guy like some years ago. He would lose his mind over the seemingly most innocuous of gestures, rant for hours, stay angry and sulk and go on verbal tirades. Anything that could have been remotely perceived as the faintest of slights against him would trigger him. Heaven forbid if anyone tried to reason with him when he was in one of his emotional sh*tstorms. And then, seemingly out of nowhere, he would suddenly be fine again.

It was the most confusing and destabilizing period of my life as I tried to figure out what the heck was going on with this guy. I didn't stick around long. I later learned why he behaved so erratically, was such an emotionally volatile character - and it had zero to do with me. Just as this guy's disproportionate reactions have nothing to do with you. I bet any money that this is just who he is and that you're nowhere near the first to be the target of his instability. 

Thank your lucky stars it was so short-lived. 

 

This is like you've witnessed the past few weeks and described him word for word. Its very confusing and really destabilising! I commented to him once that he is 'exquisitely sensitive' - the slightest sign of a HINT of criticism even if there's no criticism at all - sometimes me just asking 'why?' - would derail him. He replied 'I'm exquisitely exquisite'. I'm surprised he didn't go off the rails at that one, I started getting nervous soon as the words came out of my mouth. 

[poppyfields]

I think it's also real important to introspect/look within yourself to determine what attracted you to him, especially after his first abusive lash out, and that incident at the restaurant.

Why did you stay?  What kept you there for three months?  What attracted you?  

Were you hoping to change him, what was your thought process? 

I'm curious myself, it was very early stages. 

As the way I see it, and many women would see it, his deplorable behaviour was not only unacceptable but a complete turn off, making it easy to leave, after the first time! 

Just something to consider moving forward otherwise you attracting these abusive types might become a pattern.

 

 

Edited September 20, 2020 by poppyfields

[ExpatInItaly]

6 minutes ago, astutise said:

This is like you've witnessed the past few weeks and described him word for word. Its very confusing and really destabilising! I commented to him once that he is 'exquisitely sensitive' - the slightest sign of a HINT of criticism even if there's no criticism at all - sometimes me just asking 'why?' - would derail him. He replied 'I'm exquisitely exquisite'. I'm surprised he didn't go off the rails at that one, I started getting nervous soon as the words came out of my mouth. 

He probably can't even tell you why. 

When someone is this volatile, they don't see things the same way you do. So, to him, it probably makes all kinds of sense to lose his crapola over some of those things, and he can't figure out why you don't get it. I am not suggesting that he is right, believe me, but rather that his outlook and wiring is so vastly different from yours that he won't be able to explain "why" in a way that makes any sort of sense to you. Likewise, you won't be able to explain the hurt you felt in a way that makes any sort of sense to him. 

It is best to recognize that there is no middle ground or room for compromise in these situations, and keep moving. You will get past it when you've time and space away from him. 

[astutise]

12 minutes ago, poppyfields said:

I think it's also real important to introspect/look within to determine what attracted you to him, especially after his first abusive lash out, and that incident at the restaurant.

Why did you stay?  What kept you there for three months?  What attracted you?  

Were you hoping to change him, what was your thought process? 

I'm curious myself, it was very early stages. 

As the way I see it, and many women would see it, his deplorable behaviour was not only unacceptable but a complete turn off, making it easy to leave.

Just something to consider moving forward otherwise you attracting these abusive types might become a pattern.

 

 

Hmm, I've been thinking about it this. The weird abusive stuff didn't happen too early on - he was very kind and sweet for the first 2 months I'd say, and when it did, it really shocked me. I knew intuitively it was wrong and weird and odd but i guess I'd trace it back to my family why i stayed - my thought process was that maybe i didn't really understand what had happened, maybe it is my fault I'm not getting it - my family were often volatile if anyone had emotional needs and I guess he is quite similar to them so in a way i am quite densensitised to crazy making behaviour, things like: 'its YOUR fault if you are upset, you're too sensitive and its not my problem!'. Its an active effort to not get caught up in that kind of stuff. I've had a lot of therapy so now even if i do try to pretend its not there, all the things i learnt in therapy niggle away at me like....but you know deep down this is not good, won't end well.... Plus i guess the other thing is i had to move far away to where i am for work now and its been pretty hard and lonely in a new city, and the 2 months of sweet dates with a kind guy was really nice - i didn't want to let go of it, to be honest. But everytime i was with him after that first argument, my nervous system would be off the charts as though it was desperately trying to get me to pay attention. 

I guess the only positive is the progress made: previously many years ago, i'd stick around with awful partners for years before catching myself and taking affirmative action where now it was only staying a further 1 month after first exposure to the abuse. It still feels sucky; i don't think children of abusive families like me ever really fully HEAL, you just learn to manage and maintain it and make better choices to go against how you are wired by childhood...with a lot of strength and energy.

Edited September 20, 2020 by astutise

[astutise]

21 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

He probably can't even tell you why. 

When someone is this volatile, they don't see things the same way you do. So, to him, it probably makes all kinds of sense to lose his crapola over some of those things, and he can't figure out why you don't get it. I am not suggesting that he is right, believe me, but rather that his outlook and wiring is so vastly different from yours that he won't be able to explain "why" in a way that makes any sort of sense to you. Likewise, you won't be able to explain the hurt you felt in a way that makes any sort of sense to him. 

It is best to recognize that there is no middle ground or room for compromise in these situations, and keep moving. You will get past it when you've time and space away from him. 

The counsellor mentioned that she saw traits of 'covert narcissism' - apparently these traits are about being super severely sensitive to any hint of criticism and when i exclaimed that i simply couldn't understand the restaurant incident, she said 'in his mind, due to his narcissism, he genuinely believes the waiters and other diners take notice of him and care about him and everything that is happening concerning him and are evaluating him so he needs to make sure he looks good'.

I mean....If this is true, and some people really do believe things like this when attending restaurant, then I am at a loss of words. 

Edited September 20, 2020 by astutise

[mark clemson]

7 hours ago, astutise said:

I mean....wtf? 

Any thoughts?

Borderline personality disorder or severe anxious avoidant attachment would be my first guesses, but covert narcissist makes sense too.  Or just an abuser who reeled you in. 

These are of course just guesses, hard to know. Clearly somethings off.

I'm not dating, but my thought would be that sometimes a few possessions just aren't worth it.

Edited September 20, 2020 by mark clemson