Husband Says He Never Loved Me

[NerdyR]

2 hours ago, Wiseman2 said:

Unfortunately, you'll have to allow your son to have a better relationship with his real father. Letting your now estranged husband act as the disciplinarian is never a good idea.  Blaming his marine/cop background as a good reason to not watch out for the child yourself is s cop-out.

Sadly it seems you've been in denial for a long time. Right now it doesn't matter whether he is/was having affairs. He's moved out and has his own place.

What matters is getting a good attorney and therapist for yourself. You also need to change the locks.  Your younger child certainly does know that mom and dad live apart and are getting divorced. If he "sneaks out at night", with a 7 y/o in the house, why are you not filing for supervised visitation?

Your best friends right now are:

A good attorney

A good therapist

A good CPA.

My son’s father lives in New York and has chosen to be with his new family so doesn’t spend any time with him. Just to clarify, I do not allow any discipline to occur through my husband. I believe that stepparents should be more like an aunt or uncle in that they may have rules and respect that is given adult family members but they are not there to discipline stepchildren. I accorded the same respect and love to my husband’s kids as well. I have been in denial for a long time in this relationship, you’re right. When he leaves to see whomever in the middle of the night his 26-year-old daughter is there, and while not optimal, I was told I can’t get supervised visitation for that. I’m definitely looking for a good therapist because my current one really seemed to steer towards reconciliation and I think she is more of a couples therapist. Thanks for the input. 

[NerdyR]

3 hours ago, mark clemson said:

More red flags.

There's nothing inherently wrong with locking your phone IF your partner has the passcode and is allowed to browse if desired. Why the need to keep these conversations so private is what I would wonder. Police business? 🤔 Color me cynical but - uh huh.

Exactly. I was so naive. This was my first marriage and I have never cheated so wasn’t really looking at that since he never talks to women like that in front of me. 

[Ellener]

4 hours ago, NerdyRN said:

I know that it seems like I’m not being humble and I apologize. I’m not trying to be boastful and definitely have self-esteem issues or I would have nipped this in the bud sooner. We both had a part in the breakdown.  I’m just trying to say that I’m not a dog by any means. I love my family, I’m loyal, work hard and will always try to compromise. Yes, I’m a pain in the butt (like anyone) but I’m also not willing to be a doormat anymore. I’ve had too many months of feeling unworthy and wondering what I did wrong, how I can fix this. I now can look at myself in the mirror now and say that I’m a “catch” so If people don’t like that I’m sorry. I’m not a victim and I take responsibility for what I did wrong. I tried to fix it an compromise every step of the way.
But I’m still really reeling from my looming divorce and can’t understand how my husband is walking away. I thank you guys for being my sounding board as it’s really helping me to see both sides. Even if I need to eat a slice of humble pie it’s worth it. 

I am not meaning to be critical either, I've been in the same situation. Sending you love and support.

[basil67]

4 hours ago, NerdyRN said:

This is also a big stickler in our relationship. He refused to even pick up my son from school on the rare occasions that he asked. He would make him walk home from band practice or a game if I was at work. They never meshed. My husband was a marine + cop = children do what you say and no talking back ever. So I was constantly the middle man to protect my son while also letting my husband keep his dignity. Step kids are hard. 

Yes, step kids can be hard.  But a step parent who refuses to do his part in helping the connection develop is an even bigger problem than the child.  Thing is, the child is a child and children can and do make poor decisions.  Those poor decisions can then be worked through and learned from if the parent approaches it well.

However, adults are supposed to set the tone for respect and problem solving.   Those occasional lifts home, had they happened, could have been an opportunity to connect.

[NerdyR]

47 minutes ago, basil67 said:

Yes, step kids can be hard.  But a step parent who refuses to do his part in helping the connection develop is an even bigger problem than the child.  Thing is, the child is a child and children can and do make poor decisions.  Those poor decisions can then be worked through and learned from if the parent approaches it well.

However, adults are supposed to set the tone for respect and problem solving.   Those occasional lifts home, had they happened, could have been an opportunity to connect.

You’re right about that. My son is so loving and was looking for a father figure. It’s a darn shame. But we’re all coping together and loving each other right now. He’s honestly relieved and being the sweetheart he is my son said, “ I just wanted you to be happy so I never said anything.” A lot of what I’ve posted about their relationship has only just now been revealed by him to me. I’m just going to focus on my kids then me in that order. 

[NerdyR]

1 minute ago, Lisa said:

You're putting too much blame on yourself here.  

Had you had counselling with your husband, he would have said all the right things in the session and then gone home and stonewalled you.  It's what people like him do.   Thing is, counselling only works with people who are open to communication and exchange of ideas.

You're absolutely right that a good marriage involves teamwork.  It cannot possibly work out when one behaves as your husband does.

Yes, you're right to feel he was a useless husband for checking out, stonewalling and refusing to engage with the kids.   And if you got feisty at him, I'll back you and say that he had it coming 

From another post, someone blamed you for not having sex with him.   I can't even begin to fathom why anyone would think you'd desire sex with a guy who behaves like your husband.  Sex is a privilege we continue to earn as we nurture the relationship.  When one ceases to nurture the relationship, it's logic that the one being neglected will stop wanting sex.

Again, from another post, you're being blamed for buying a new house when being audited and you conceded that you made that mistake.  However, it sounds to me like the two of you had the financial ability to catch up on any outstanding taxes and pay the new mortgage, so I can't see the financial problem with getting a new place.   Honestly, I worry that you're too open to criticism.  Sure, take the blame for real fault, but stand up for yourself when you've done nothing wrong.   

Out of curiosity, did you tend to apologise to your estranged husband just to keep the peace?  

Thanks for this. Yes, I’m a middle child and always try to compromise to keep the peace. My parents were arguers /yellers   and I’ve never wanted that for my kids. I try to see others’ point of view but I can’t help us if you won’t talk to me. I definitely have to work on not being a doormat. 

[basil67]

You're making such good progress working through this @NerdyRN

Another thing I wanted to say is that the counsellor shouldn't have encouraged you to try and save your marriage.   Rather, they should have supported you to work through your feelings and make your own decision.  They were out of line.

[NerdyR]

1 hour ago, basil67 said:

You're making such good progress working through this @NerdyRN

Another thing I wanted to say is that the counsellor shouldn't have encouraged you to try and save your marriage.   Rather, they should have supported you to work through your feelings and make your own decision.  They were out of line.

Thanks. I told her I didn’t want to but she really wanted me to have closure so I did. It felt really demeaning to ask again for him to come to counseling and of course he was not interested. 

[Happy Lemming]

14 hours ago, Lisa said:

 so I can't see the financial problem with getting a new place. 

As someone who was an accountant for 30 years and seller-financed many homes, I can tell when someone/couple is "house poor".  I think they bit off more than they could chew.  I'm reading between the lines here, but I'm thinking the husband wanted to spend some of his income on hobbies/outings/good times and there was no disposable income left (which created some tension).  In the end, I'm assuming the husband did sign house/mortgage papers.  He could have refused, but didn't.  This was a mistake on his part.

As a side note, the IRS does not audit someone, unless they think there is something awry. Sometimes the IRS is wrong (and everything is on the up and up) but those are rare cases.  Something in their finances triggered a "red flag" and the IRS did an audit.  Again, taxes come first!!

14 hours ago, Lisa said:

 Sex is a privilege we continue to earn as we nurture the relationship. 

In general, men are very simple creatures, feed us, have sex with us and don't cause us angst and we are content, loyal and happy. If we have to jump through hoops and spend our last dime to earn the "privilege" of having sex with a woman (married or not), an animosity will grow and fester.  It won't be long before we seek the company of another woman.

 

*** Side Note ***  @Lisa  I see you are a moderator candidate.  In the past, we've been told not to "challenge" moderators, I'm assuming I can reply to your post and still be within the guidelines of the Loveshack's rules. 

 

[spiritedaway2003]

23 hours ago, NerdyRN said:

The reason that I pushed so much for a new house was that the first house was MY first home that I bought when I was a single mom. The neighborhood was going down, schools with it and it was a small house- perfect for two people but not for a growing family. The new house was in a nice neighborhood but not fancy by any means. It is the cheapest that I could find that neighborhood and in the better schools. I would NOT have needed to work so much if I had a little help. I’m talking $500 or so to help with the mortgage. I worked two jobs to pay the mortgage AND pay my husband because we were audited by the IRS and that was another financial issue that needed to be taken care of. That was my way to try to get all of our finances under control and eventually I found another job that paid better so now I just do that. Just one job. He is quite immature and really does not have the tools in dealing with life’s ups and downs. He had a custodial fight with his ex a few months after we moved in and completely shut down. All of these issues are why I thought he was just having a midlife crisis or breakdown- the audit, larger mortgage and custody battle  all in 1.5 years is a lot for someone that can’t handle adversity well. He is the type that will just walk away when it gets too hard. I honestly feel bad for him. 

By the way, OP, I apologize.  I dislike it when people make too many assumptions (and people do that a lot here), but I realized I did that as well based on the information presented in the original post.  I thought this was a traditional setup in which you and husband invested in a place together, and then you decided that you need a bigger house.  

If that house was your first home that you bought and worked for, then that's a different story.  I don't know if you had a prenup or what it means for you now that you're married (and what happens to assets in a divorce -- sounds financially messy).  I still stand by what I said earlier in that when big decisions like buying a house is made, not enough talking and working through disagreements often means big issues down the line.  As you realize, buying a place together when there are IRS issue is even a bigger risk.  He seems to be very immature in his handling of things, but I can see how problems could originated when he signed the mortgage when he wasn't onboard.

Whether infidelity or suspicion of infidelity may or may not be a factor, since it's all people's speculations and conjectures. Only bring that into the discussion if and when it is warranted.   If he's willing to go to counseling with you, there may be hope.  Otherwise, I am not sure there is much to work from at this point.  Good luck.

Edited September 27, 2020 by spiritedaway2003

[ExpatInItaly]

23 hours ago, NerdyRN said:

He said his friends but I know some of them are women. He did claim most of the time to be talking to his best guy friend. 

For hours in the car? 

I wouldn't buy it. 

[NerdyR]

2 hours ago, Happy Lemming said:

As someone who was an accountant for 30 years and seller-financed many homes, I can tell when someone/couple is "house poor".  I think they bit off more than they could chew.  I'm reading between the lines here, but I'm thinking the husband wanted to spend some of his income on hobbies/outings/good times and there was no disposable income left (which created some tension).  

 

Hi Happy Lemming, 

without any help that is what happened to MY finances in that I didn’t have much left over. Since he was just paying utilities and the like HIS finances did not take a hit at all. However, I was able to find a way out of that by working as a contractor and have more control over my time off as a result. As in all things in life, hard times have a way of working out and I’m much happier with my career now. It would have been much better on our marriage if I hadn’t put us in that situation but someone to hold on to during the rocky times would have been nice. I learned my lesson in that I should have been better with the finances AND if the ship was sinking I had to fix it on my own. I think the loss of the dream of a team together through the good as well as the bad is what hurt the most. 

 

 

[NerdyR]

17 minutes ago, ExpatInItaly said:

For hours in the car? 

I wouldn't buy it. 

I don’t either. Even if he claims there was no affair there had to at least be an emotional affair. Either way it’s not healthy to cut off your wife and go to others as a sounding board. This forum is making me feel more and more that I’m pining for a marriage that was never going to make it anyways. I should just put on my big girl panties and keep working on my kids and myself. The hardest thing to me is not that he says he doesn’t love me because lots of people can say that I’m the ups and downs of marriage. It’s that the partnership bond of knowing someone will stand through the good and the bad times (even if I created some and had to fix it) did not exist at all. I only have God, myself and my family/friends. 

[NerdyR]

Expat, 

I forgot to say that I completely agree with you and there was definitely something going on there, especially with the way he guarded his phone. He still denies it months later. He once made a comment about, “xxssy is all the same” so I’m sure he’s getting it somewhere else. BTW he also recently told me he will not fight for the house or anything else in the divorce. He said he will sign whatever I want. Guilty much? 

[Wiseman2]

1 minute ago, NerdyRN said:

he also recently told me he will not fight for the house or anything else in the divorce. He said he will sign whatever I want. Guilty much? 

You still need an attorney. Don't be fooled again and believe any of this. It's not about 'guilt' , he just wants out. So badly that he already has his own place. 

[NerdyR]

58 minutes ago, spiritedaway2003 said:

By the way, OP, I apologize.  I dislike it when people make too many assumptions (and people do that a lot here), but I realized I did that as well based on the information presented in the original post.  I thought this was a traditional setup in which you and husband invested in a place together, and then you decided that you need a bigger house.  

If that house was your first home that you bought and worked for, then that's a different story.  I don't know if you had a prenup or what it means for you now that you're married (and what happens to assets in a divorce -- sounds financially messy).  

Thank you Spirited. The first house was my own home that I have been renting out. He says for now that he will not try to get half during the divorce proceedings. I agree that I should not have pushed for a bigger house while paying off the IRS. I learned my lesson on  that one and can see why he was resentful of that. However, he did also tell me a few days ago when I asked that he married me for the convenience. I asked him to be completely honest. He said he was attracted to me and it went really fast + was convenient. Perhaps we would have stayed in my previous home in a bad school district and he would be happy to be continuing to sock away his money since he didn’t love me anyway. Without a larger mortgage I would not have asked him to step up to help with the mortgage. What if my forcing the move forced me to see that I was alone and had to do what was best for my family (kids)? Yes I should have waited until everything was done with the audit but it did reveal to me the real truth of our marriage. Am I hashing over this too much?

[NerdyR]

12 minutes ago, Wiseman2 said:

You still need an attorney. Don't be fooled again and believe any of this. It's not about 'guilt' , he just wants out. So badly that he already has his own place. 

Okay, I will go see one again. His sister is an attorney and he was using her to file our divorce papers since he stated he didn’t want anything. 

[Wiseman2]

45 minutes ago, NerdyRN said:

few days ago when I asked that he married me for the convenience. 

Stop doing this to yourself. Stop looking to him for answers now.  He is moved out and filing for divorce. It's  much too late to be asking this.  He does not want to reconcile. These backhanded questions indicating very very poor self respect won't help you.

They will all come to you sooner or later. But right now this type of groveling is not going to help you. Private therapy, a good attorney and a good CPA is what you need more than prayers and chitchat with someone who is divorcing you.

Unfortunately it sounds like your church/religion where off-putting to him. Make sure your therapist is not some church elder telling you to 'work through it'.  Or someone who makes you feel chronically guilty or that you should have fixed tis on your own. Make sure it is a licensed qualified psychologist. Both of you have quite a few divorces between you so start there.

Edited September 27, 2020 by Wiseman2

[NerdyR]

1 hour ago, Wiseman2 said:

Stop doing this to yourself. Stop looking to him for answers now.  He is moved out and filing for divorce. It's  much too late to be asking this.  He does not want to reconcile. These backhanded questions indicating very very poor self respect won't help you.

They will all come to you sooner or later. But right now this type of groveling is not going to help you. Private therapy, a good attorney and a good CPA is what you need more than prayers and chitchat with someone who is divorcing you.

Unfortunately it sounds like your church/religion where off-putting to him. Make sure your therapist is not some church elder telling you to 'work through it'.  Or someone who makes you feel chronically guilty or that you should have fixed tis on your own. Make sure it is a licensed qualified psychologist. Both of you have quite a few divorces between you so start there.

Ooh kinda harsh but thanks. This is my first divorce and his third btw. Again, thanks- this forum has helped me to see it from a different perspective and obviously I keep going back and forth from denial to acceptance. 

[Watercolors]

10 minutes ago, NerdyRN said:

Ooh kinda harsh but thanks. This is my first divorce and his third btw. Again, thanks- this forum has helped me to see it from a different perspective and obviously I keep going back and forth from denial to acceptance. 

Wait. You married a man who was already divorced twice?! Not to sound harsh, but I would have RUN away from him once I found that out about his past. A person with multiple divorces behind them is definitely an unreliable relationship partner. Their track history of divorce multiple times, shows them to be someone who makes poor decisions. That should have been a huge red flag to you -- his two divorces. Was it? Did you two ever discuss it?

Since he has two ex-wives and possibly children from those marriages, I hope you have a plan to fight him for child-support in family court.

[Lotsgoingon]

Sorry to hear about this abrupt and shocking end to things.

Sounds like buying the more expensive house was a big deal, that something shifted in him after that. It may have been that he appeared to agree to the move but that deep down he was angry and resentful. What he could have and should have done is to have really stood his ground to make clear to you how frightening the new move was to him. Sounds like he went into total immature mode after the move. 

The rule of marriage goes something like this: if we agree to go with a partner’s preference, we also agree not to hold resentment against the partner if things don’t turn out well.

Here's my guess from reading between the lines. You seem confident, full of energy and life and have the get-it-done spirit. You own up to being a catch. My guess is you fell in love with him without noticing that he didn't have your energy and ambition and spirit. I'm not blaming you. It's so easy to miss things, especially qualities that we just assume a person has. For him to act as he did after the move to the new house, he HAD to have been immature all along.

His behavior after the move was worth a knock-down-drag-out fight even if the tension went on for weeks. And I nonviolent fight. His financial withdrawal would have undermined your respect for him--even if you tried not to think of it that way. The time after the move was time to have it out--there are some disagreements you cannot finesse or handle gentle—it’s like ignoring  someone’s drinking problem. Avoiding the hard truth just causes worse problems down the line.

Now I'm going to really go between the lines here. My guess: he might have been dazzled by you because he noticed you had energy and polish and resilience that he didn't have. He might have been riding that tailwind in the relationship and that wind got cut off when you guys moved to the bigger place, he felt over his head. Did you get a sense all along that he looked up to you? As someone “better” than him and his background?

I'm going to press you. Come on. You know this guy ... his behavior after the move ... there had to be something that hinted at that before the move. That's awful behavior, to not pay his part of bills. There must have been something that you noticed that was consistent with that kind of shirking, nasty, passive-aggressive behavior.  Some of the stories you're telling about the way he treated stepchildren seem to confirm some basic immaturity or meanness.

Bottom line: of course, a breakup is painful and heartbreaking, but this guy sounds like an emotionally blocked, withdrawn, limited, immature guy. You guys were not matched on maturity levels. Short term, you’re going to mourn and hurt. Long term, you guys were mismatched. The relationship couldn’t last. I don’t think this guy was ever your equal. You just missed it but now his immaturity is coming through. 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2020 by Lotsgoingon

[pepperbird2]

I can't help it but I keep going back to the way he was fine with you paying the full mortgage. I'm not seeing much of a "partnership" in that decision of his.

[MsJayne]

He's very passive aggressive, and it's hard to have a relationship with someone who behaves like that, but sometimes, when one partner is very domineering and demanding, the other person figures they have no say anyway so there's no point voicing their annoyance. It sounds as though you bulldozed him in the decision to move and he's so steaming mad about it that he can't get past it.  I don't think counselling will help at this point. 

[Acacia98]

On 9/26/2020 at 7:49 PM, NerdyRN said:

 If this marriage couldn’t survive these tumbles right now then it wasn’t meant to be. 

The more I read about your marriage, the more convinced I am that it was in trouble before you pushed to buy the new house. Your husband's various quirks seem to me to be the type that encourage emotional distance and a separate life from those who should be close to him. 

On 9/26/2020 at 8:38 PM, NerdyRN said:

 He tried making the moves until I said it’s not healthy for me since we’re divorcing. When I asked why he was initiating sex if he didn’t love me he just said, “I’m still attracted to you.”

Translation: He thinks of you as an object.

On 9/26/2020 at 8:59 PM, NerdyRN said:

He refused to even pick up my son from school on the rare occasions that he asked. He would make him walk home from band practice or a game if I was at work. They never meshed. My husband was a marine + cop = children do what you say and no talking back ever. So I was constantly the middle man to protect my son while also letting my husband keep his dignity. Step kids are hard. 

Sounds like he has always been a jerk and you went out of your way to "understand" him. Blended families can be hard. But in this case it sounds like your husband was working overtime to make things hard. My heart breaks for your son.

[ExpatInItaly]

17 hours ago, NerdyR said:

Expat, 

I forgot to say that I completely agree with you and there was definitely something going on there, especially with the way he guarded his phone. He still denies it months later. He once made a comment about, “xxssy is all the same” so I’m sure he’s getting it somewhere else. BTW he also recently told me he will not fight for the house or anything else in the divorce. He said he will sign whatever I want. Guilty much? 

I think guilt is a big part of his current stance, I'm sorry to say. 

My sense is that he's had someone else in his life for quite a while now, but you're only truly starting to connect the dots as you lay it all out here.