Inappropriate texts or affair?

[QTpie123]

3 minutes ago, Watercolors said:

In terms of compatibility though, do you think you and your husband are compatible at all? Obviously, you both cheated on each other throughout the marriage and you were ready to divorce him but never went through with it. So, that seems like, to me anyway, two people who are unhappy with each other, yet stay together despite being unhappy.

That is something for me to think about. I hadn’t put my thoughts together to view it this way yet.  Thank you for helping me see all sides. 

[mark clemson]

11 minutes ago, Watercolors said:

 I view it as a reaction to a dysfunctional relationship.

Fair enough and that's probably true. Also true that many couples stay together despite varying levels of dysfunction. Staying together is ultimately a choice and some do make it despite significant issues they may have.

[QTpie123]

1 hour ago, schlumpy said:

Be aware that affairs are like an addiction. I'm sure your IC has explained that to you. Treat him like you would a drug addict.

Be vigilant that he didn't take the affair underground. You can't stop him from doing it. There are too many avenues now-a-days from a burner phones to library computers.

Measure your chance of success to fix this by the amount of effort he is willing to put in.

He has to do all the heavy lifting. He has to make you feel safe again or it's all for naught.

Good luck.

My IC has not told me this?!  
 

he just changed all his passcode on his iPads and passwords for email. And I’ve noticed I’m locking his phone when I walk into the room and laying it screen down on his chest. I’ve wondered if he is still talking to her. I need grow some lady balls and just ask....

[mark clemson]

13 minutes ago, QTpie123 said:

I most likely know what you are alluding to when you say “it’s pretty clear what’s going on” but Could you spell it out?  My brain is dead right now 

At a minimum, it's clear he's attempting to start a PA (physical affair) with this woman he's texting. It's not "just talk". There may be other things he's doing, that would not surprise me given all you've written, but the evidence is not completely clear.

Possibly, chasing some unattainable woman by text helps him stop himself from other indiscretions (having other affairs/ONS's). I could see that for some men. In his case I honestly doubt that would be the case. The PA horse has left the barn.

[QTpie123]

3 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

At a minimum, it's clear he's attempting to start a PA (physical affair) with this woman he's texting. It's not "just talk". There may be other things he's doing, that would not surprise me given all you've written, but the evidence is not completely clear.

Possibly, chasing some unattainable woman by text helps him stop himself from other indiscretions (having other affairs/ONS's). I could see that for some men. In his case I honestly doubt that would be the case. The PA horse has left the barn.

Thanks. Yes. I don’t buy the I like to talk excuse. I have even told him I have idea what else he’s Done that there is no proof of. 
 

I am hoping MC can help me sort through everything and help me decide what to do.  I feel like I know what needs to be done but I want to make a well educated decision and not one based on emotional response. 
 

I have given myself through Christmas to decide. 
 

my problem is it’s not just him and me. We have two kids and I need to make sure 100% before I make a decision if not for myself for them. 

[mark clemson]

Fair enough. Be aware that many MC's try to "save the marriage", to a certain extent "at all costs". You might prefer IC if this is about your own personal unilateral decision on whether to stay.

[schlumpy]

4 minutes ago, QTpie123 said:

My IC has not told me this?!  
 

he just changed all his passcode on his iPads and passwords for email. And I’ve noticed I’m locking his phone when I walk into the room and laying it screen down on his chest. I’ve wondered if he is still talking to her. I need grow some lady balls and just ask....

He should offer complete transparency.

To be honest he could offer transparency but still be cheating. 

This is about respect and I repeat that he doesn't have any for you.

You have to make him respect you.

That means that every decision from now on is about you. Maybe he can come along for the ride but you choose the destination.

Don't pretend to be his wife when he doesn't see you in that role. 

At some point you will have to risk your marriage to save it because the threat of divorce is your only leverage. 

Does the OM have a husband? Have a chat with him. The quickest way to blow up an affair is to drag it kicking and screaming to within the light of day.

Don't tell your husband. Just do it.

If there is no husband to tell then tell your husbands family instead and never apologize for any action you take in defense of your marriage.

Install or get someone to install a key logger program on his computer. That will give you his new passwords.

Consider using hidden voice activated recorders to catch him making phone calls. That should tell you what score is.

This is a lot of time and effort. None of it may work because both have to want to save the marriage. Not just one.

[Watercolors]

3 minutes ago, QTpie123 said:

my problem is it’s not just him and me. We have two kids and I need to make sure 100% before I make a decision if not for myself for them. 

It's good that you've given yourself through Christmas to decide how to proceed forward especially since you have two children together. But, you should not stay married for their sake. If divorce will make you happiest, then divorce your husband. Your husband and you can be great coparents and support each other as coparents to your shared children. Not all divorced couples can do that, obviously. Hopefully, you and your husband would be able to respect each other and not try to sabotage the other, or use your children as convenient scapegoats to vent to about each other, which again, some divorced parents who have poor parenting skills will do to their children. I'm just saying, there are ways to keep your family intact, while also being divorced. Does that make sense?

[schlumpy]

If you can afford it a PI is the best way to go.

 

[d0nnivain]

12 hours ago, schlumpy said:

If you can afford it a PI is the best way to go.

 

Why?  Don't waste the money.  Those emails are all the evidence you need.  Get out 

[schlumpy]

I don't disagree with your sentiment dOnnivain, but I sense that the OP is someone who needs a higher level of evidence before she can pull the trigger. She has already put up with his behavior over a period of years. That's quite a bit of resistance to the obvious.

She's most likely afraid for emotional or financial reasons. 

[QTpie123]

2 hours ago, schlumpy said:

I don't disagree with your sentiment dOnnivain, but I sense that the OP is someone who needs a higher level of evidence before she can pull the trigger. She has already put up with his behavior over a period of years. That's quite a bit of resistance to the obvious.

She's most likely afraid for emotional or financial reasons. 

I am afraid to end the relationship but not for financial. More emotional and religious beliefs. 
 

you say I’ve put up with this behavior for years. I found out he had an affair 4 years ago. I forgave him and we worked through this one.

however, I only recently found out about everything else. Like a month ago. So to say I’ve “put up with his behavior over a period of years” is not quiet accurate.  
 

I know a lot of people who can work through an affair and their marriages are stronger. Which is why we decided to work through the 1st one. 


 

 

[mark clemson]

16 hours ago, schlumpy said:

Does the OM have a husband? Have a chat with him. The quickest way to blow up an affair is to drag it kicking and screaming to within the light of day.

Don't tell your husband. Just do it.

While I understand that some people view this as a moral imperative, and the point about it ending the affair is likely to be accurate, if you are inclined to do this, I'd suggest you think it through rather than acting in haste.

For one thing, you might regret doing this if, for example the OW's husband becomes violent OR if they have young children who are put through an acrimonious divorce. "Blowing up someone else's life" or risking doing so isn't for everyone.

You might also talk to a lawyer to ensure your state (or the OW's state) doesn't allow "alienation of affection" lawsuits, which as I understand it, allow an affair partner (AP) to be sued if a divorce occurs as a result of an affair. For example, IF you wanted to stay married, but the other couple divorced, the husband could sue your husband (and thus you, IF you stayed together). While this is by no means a recommendation, the converse would also be true - IF you divorced, in an alienation of affection state, you could attempt to sue the OW for damages. (Whether this is something that you'd want to do or that makes any sense from a recoup of damages perspective would of course depend a lot on the specifics of your and the OW's situation.)

Generally, these actions are not to be done lightly or in haste IMO.

[QTpie123]

17 minutes ago, mark clemson said:

While I understand that some people view this as a moral imperative, and the point about it ending the affair is likely to be accurate, if you are inclined to do this, I'd suggest you think it through rather than acting in haste.

For one thing, you might regret doing this if, for example the OW's husband becomes violent OR if they have young children who are put through an acrimonious divorce. "Blowing up someone else's life" or risking doing so isn't for everyone.

You might also talk to a lawyer to ensure your state (or the OW's state) doesn't allow "alienation of affection" lawsuits, which as I understand it, allow an affair partner (AP) to be sued if a divorce occurs as a result of an affair. For example, IF you wanted to stay married, but the other couple divorced, the husband could sue your husband (and thus you, IF you stayed together). While this is by no means a recommendation, the converse would also be true - IF you divorced, in an alienation of affection state, you could attempt to sue the OW for damages. (Whether this is something that you'd want to do or that makes any sense from a recoup of damages perspective would of course depend a lot on the specifics of your and the OW's situation.)

Generally, these actions are not to be done lightly or in haste IMO.

The OW this time is a single woman who still lives at home with her parents. I did contact her to let her know that I was not aware nor ok with what was happening-husband had told her I was ok with it. I asked her to stay away from my kids-she mentioned she wanted to follow my daughter on social media-but didn’t feel the need to tell her to stay away from husband. The way I saw it they will either continue in their relationship which means my marriage will end immediately or he will end communication and try to salvage what he can-if it can be salvaged. 

it is against my nature to our people to their families. And most likely not do this. 

[mark clemson]

Fair enough. I'm like you I think, on this particular parameter. At least to a certain extent.

5 minutes ago, QTpie123 said:

The way I saw it they will either continue in their relationship which means my marriage will end immediately or he will end communication and try to salvage what he can-if it can be salvaged.

This makes sense.

You are probably asking yourself whether you can take him back after this (assuming he stops contact completely). While I don't recommend divorcing to people as a general rule, I do think this all seems pretty flagrant unfortunately, and also it's been a long duration. Neither of which is good. 🙁

[schlumpy]

1 hour ago, QTpie123 said:

I am afraid to end the relationship but not for financial. More emotional and religious beliefs. 

Religious belief is an acceptable reason and I'm not trying to be inaccurate to the the amount of time so my apologies.

Whenever a spouse has an affair and gets caught. There is a tendency for the betrayed to forgive right away if it wasn't a deal breaker. This is not the correct way to handle the situation. First off the betrayed spouse does not know what they are forgiving. Cheaters will only admit to what can be proven which may just be the tip of the iceberg. What happens is that instead of being grateful for a second chance the cheater internalizes that the spouse will put up with the cheating. Even if they get caught the consequences are a bit of begging and pleading, maybe two or three weeks in the guest room and then back to normal.

That is why you had a repeat. He did not face any substantial consequences.

Substantial consequences means he has a real chance of losing everything. Substantial consequences is he fully understands that you can live a good life without him.

If you want reconciliation to work then he has to be 100 percent committed to repairing the marriage.

He has to drop all contact with OW. (other woman)

He has to get himself in individual counseling. (IC)

He has to take one hundred percent of the blame for the affair. No blame shifting is allowed.

He should be available to you and answer every question you put to him no matter how much it hurts.

He should be willing to do whatever it takes to help you heal from his choices.

Complete transparency with all of his electronic communication must be offered.

He doesn't get forever to straighten up. Set a time limit and tell him if you are not happy with his progress.

This is all on him and he has to do the heavy lifting.

HE broke it and it's up to him to fix it or agree to let you find someone else who will appreciate what you bring to the table.

If you go to MC then the affair must be over or you are wasting your time and money.

Meanwhile talk to lawyer and get a contingency into place. It doesn't hurt to let him know you talked to a lawyer. That's leverage. That is consequences.

Get a STD test just drive home the point.

 

All my best.

 

[schlumpy]

53 minutes ago, QTpie123 said:

it is against my nature to our people to their families. And most likely not do this. 

That of course is your choice but no consequences means no change in behavior and it also leads to lack of respect.

[d0nnivain]

2 hours ago, QTpie123 said:

I am afraid to end the relationship but not for financial. More emotional and religious beliefs. 

Most religions let you out of a destructive marriage where one partner cheats.  Go talk to your religious advisor about what's going on.  Perhaps you can lure your wayward spouse into counseling through your faith. 

Burying your head in the sand does nothing except teach your children to devalue you. 

[QTpie123]

1 hour ago, schlumpy said:

Religious belief is an acceptable reason and I'm not trying to be inaccurate to the the amount of time so my apologies.

Whenever a spouse has an affair and gets caught. There is a tendency for the betrayed to forgive right away if it wasn't a deal breaker. This is not the correct way to handle the situation. First off the betrayed spouse does not know what they are forgiving. Cheaters will only admit to what can be proven which may just be the tip of the iceberg. What happens is that instead of being grateful for a second chance the cheater internalizes that the spouse will put up with the cheating. Even if they get caught the consequences are a bit of begging and pleading, maybe two or three weeks in the guest room and then back to normal.

That is why you had a repeat. He did not face any substantial consequences.

Substantial consequences means he has a real chance of losing everything. Substantial consequences is he fully understands that you can live a good life without him.

If you want reconciliation to work then he has to be 100 percent committed to repairing the marriage.

He has to drop all contact with OW. (other woman)

He has to get himself in individual counseling. (IC)

He has to take one hundred percent of the blame for the affair. No blame shifting is allowed.

He should be available to you and answer every question you put to him no matter how much it hurts.

He should be willing to do whatever it takes to help you heal from his choices.

Complete transparency with all of his electronic communication must be offered.

He doesn't get forever to straighten up. Set a time limit and tell him if you are not happy with his progress.

This is all on him and he has to do the heavy lifting.

HE broke it and it's up to him to fix it or agree to let you find someone else who will appreciate what you bring to the table.

If you go to MC then the affair must be over or you are wasting your time and money.

Meanwhile talk to lawyer and get a contingency into place. It doesn't hurt to let him know you talked to a lawyer. That's leverage. That is consequences.

Get a STD test just drive home the point.

 

All my best.

 

Thank you. This is good advice. I appreciate your candor. 
 

I am scheduled for testing on October 12th. 

 

I have spoken to a lawyer but haven’t talked to him about it yet. Our MC told us any talk of divorce must be taken off the table for the next 60 days. Husband knows that I am considering leaving him and he knows that with his work he will not get primary custody of the kids. This has woke him up. 
 

I do feel like I am doing a lot of the work and was planning on bringing this up at our next session. It makes me resentful. 
 

I wanted MC to maybe fix this but that was before the found the other things. Now I am not sure even MC will work. 
 

I know my kids are watching what is happening in my marriage. They do not know what is happening between us. Adult problems are adult problems. I do not want them to see me be disrespected again and again. And I know that kids can be just as happy with divorced parents as they are with married ones. 
 

 

46 minutes ago, d0nnivain said:

Most religions let you out of a destructive marriage where one partner cheats.  Go talk to your religious advisor about what's going on.  Perhaps you can lure your wayward spouse into counseling through your faith. 

Burying your head in the sand does nothing except teach your children to devalue you. 

I hope to God I’m not burying my head in the sand. If this is how it appears it’s not how I feel I am handling the situation. 
 

I want to take tine and not make decisions in haste. 
 

he almost had me convinced that his texts were not an affair and I needed to see what other thought to help me gain my footing. I know I’m on a slippery slope and and I fighting with everything I have to stay standing. Sometimes I just need to hear it from others and for this reason I’m glad i found this forum. 
 

[usa1ah]

To answer the question, yes it is an affair. 

[S2B]

On 9/28/2020 at 2:24 PM, QTpie123 said:

What I meant by it doesn’t matter is that it doesn’t matter if he was drunk or sober when he texted these things. He did it. And the next morning when he was sober and read through the messages he should have seen what was happening and stopped it after the first incident. 

Ya but he didn’t! He didn’t stop - he betrayed you for seven years!!  
and 3 thousand at a strip club? OMG girl - he is a total scumbag!

see an attorney now! There’s no excuse for his despicable, yet consistent, behavior! He doesn’t act married.

[S2B]

13 hours ago, QTpie123 said:

I am afraid to end the relationship but not for financial. More emotional and religious beliefs. 
 

you say I’ve put up with this behavior for years. I found out he had an affair 4 years ago. I forgave him and we worked through this one.

however, I only recently found out about everything else. Like a month ago. So to say I’ve “put up with his behavior over a period of years” is not quiet accurate.  
 

I know a lot of people who can work through an affair and their marriages are stronger. Which is why we decided to work through the 1st one. 


 

 

How many affairs would you say you should “put up with?”

obviously you two DIDN’T work through it the “first” time! He did it again. So it was likely swept under the rug at your expense. 
he thought nothing of betraying you again - expect more of the same when you decide to stay married.

[DKT3]

I don't believe he ever got over her affair.  

Just think, she has an affair,  on top of that she sexually rejects him for years. Im sure he imagined her doing all the things with her affair partner that she rejected for him.

Resentment,  anger and then he gives her a phone with all that stuff on it.

OP you sure your husband isn't simply trying to get you to start the divorce process?

Either way,  your marriage is a mess, and unlike some other posters here I believe your affair is still in play, because it was never really resolved with him. His behavior really suggests that he is trying to punish you.

[schlumpy]

QT - Did you suffer consequences from your affair? 

[QTpie123]

52 minutes ago, schlumpy said:

QT - Did you suffer consequences from your affair? 

Everyone from my husbands friend group knew/were told. I was embarrassed to go anywhere in town because everyone knew. And husband would bring it up for years later anytime we fought, i feel to control me.  It was a small town so it was mortifying