Recovering old messages, and monitoring new ones.

[Ryder101]

Hello all,

I'm looking for technical help, not necessarily ethical debates about my actions/intentions, but I suppose I should give a brief intro for context into the inevitable concerns about the ethics of the situation.

[Feel free to skip this paragraph if you don't care about context/background] My wife and I have been married 15 years (with children under 14). A few days before our 15 year anniversary I discovered she was having an affair that had lasted (she claims) 4 months with a coworker. We decided to give our relationship a second chance, to repair what was broken, and to move forward. It's been a very difficult journey for us both since then, but it's also been very rewarding. Our marriage counselor suggested we practice "radical honesty," meaning we hold nothing back regardless of how we think it might affect each other, and it means complete transparency with our devices and diaries (we can check each other's devices freely, without hesitation in asking or allowing access). This seemed promising at first, but one day I was scrolling through old pictures of hers and found pics of her and the guy she cheated on me with that were too intimate for a friendship, and that predated whats she claims was the beginning of her affair. In the spirit of radical honesty, I told her what I found, how it made me feel, and how it made me question her "truth" about the affair. She insisted they were merely friends back then and that she understands how it might seem suspicious when viewed in the context of me already knowing about the affair, but there was nothing more to it. The problem with "radical honesty" is that it only works if you trust the other person is telling the truth, and I have no such trust, for good reason. The problem with complete transparency of our devices is that spying on someone who knows they're being spied on will yield no results.

Which brings me to the technical aspect of my problem. Legally (I've checked) I'm well within my rights to spy on her phone with 3rd party apps. The phone belongs to me in every way except usage. To discover if she's telling me the truth about the duration of the relationship (and about no other affairs having happened) I need to be able to recover old messages, long deleted from her phone. My options are: Forensic analysis (guaranteed to work, but wildly expensive and can't be done covertly since I'd need to take the phone in to the professionals). Restoring her phone from iCloud or from a backup (potential to work, but while I have physical access to her phone, I don't have her iCloud password, I can't ask for it and remain "covert" and I can't restore her phone anyway because she also uses it for work and I can't risk her losing such data). Using 3rd party apps. There are several apps that claim to do this, but one of them mentioned that it can only restore data (texts, pics, etc.) that were deleted within 24 hours. Does anyone have any experience with such apps who can tell me if there's a good one that isn't limited to just 24 hour old deleted data? Forensic analysts have told me they can recover anything that's been on the phone since the day she started using it, but that's with their professional software and expertise. Would something like iMobie PhoneRescue (or another app) be able to recover texts and other messages from 1 or 2 years ago? Any personal experience with such apps would be helpful to me.

Regarding current monitoring of the phone, my options are similar, except the 3rd party apps have limitations I don't know how to get around. There are 2 kinds: One that requires jailbreaking the phone (which I can't do) and another that doesn't require that, but does require her iCloud password (and is limited in functionality because it only access the data on the backup, so nothing "real time.") As far as I can tell the only way to get her password would be for me to change it, but that's obviously not going to work without her knowing that I did it and why. Once again, any personal experience with such apps, or other methods, would be very helpful.

Thanks in advance.

[Veronica73]

I have no personal experience, but I’d take it to a forensic analyst (depending on how “wildly” expensive it is). Did you talk about the photo in your marriage counseling?

[Ryder101]

We did. She said it was taken when they were only "work friends," the counselor said if that's her truth I should trust it. I asked "based on what should I trust it?" and he said I should trust it based on our pledge to be radically honest. His idea of rebuilding trust seems to require preexisting trust, which obviously no longer exists.

The forensic analysis costs about $300 an hour with an expected time to complete of about 20+ hours. In the mean time, the phone would have to stay in their possession until their workload allowed them to get to it. They mainly deal with much more important work like crime investigations, so my issue wouldn't exactly be high priority. There are other places that do the same work for a bit cheaper, but not anywhere around where I live, and not that much cheaper either.

[Wiseman2]

An attorney would be a better idea than spyware, if you can't trust your wife. Step up and divorce.

[schlumpy]

I will assume you don't want to get caught doing this? The forensic analyst is your only hope.

You could buy a few voice activated recorders and put them in places she makes phone calls. One under the seat of her car might be fruitful. Get some industrial strength velcro with a sticky side to it for placement. 

Put a key logger on her laptop. 

Hell, you could even GPS her car.

Doesn't seem to live up the spirit of the therapy you are experimenting with.

BTW, never confront a cheater unless you have overwhelming evidence because they will just turn it back on you or make something up which is what happened you with the picture. She will never tell you everything about the affair unless you have evidence.

How do you know she stopped it? She told you so? Many times they go underground or cool off for a period of time until the betrayed spouse is lulled back to sleep.

Did she confess or did you find out accidently? It makes a big difference.

Did you forgive her right away? Were you frightened of losing her? Lack of consequences leads to a repeat down the road.

But now you are asking the right questions. How long? How much? How can I trust again? You are starting to realize you can live without her. 

Good luck to you.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

6 hours ago, Ryder101 said:

Hello all,

I'm looking for technical help, not necessarily ethical debates about my actions/intentions, but I suppose I should give a brief intro for context into the inevitable concerns about the ethics of the situation.

[Feel free to skip this paragraph if you don't care about context/background] My wife and I have been married 15 years (with children under 14). A few days before our 15 year anniversary I discovered she was having an affair that had lasted (she claims) 4 months with a coworker. We decided to give our relationship a second chance, to repair what was broken, and to move forward. It's been a very difficult journey for us both since then, but it's also been very rewarding. Our marriage counselor suggested we practice "radical honesty," meaning we hold nothing back regardless of how we think it might affect each other, and it means complete transparency with our devices and diaries (we can check each other's devices freely, without hesitation in asking or allowing access). This seemed promising at first, but one day I was scrolling through old pictures of hers and found pics of her and the guy she cheated on me with that were too intimate for a friendship, and that predated whats she claims was the beginning of her affair. In the spirit of radical honesty, I told her what I found, how it made me feel, and how it made me question her "truth" about the affair. She insisted they were merely friends back then and that she understands how it might seem suspicious when viewed in the context of me already knowing about the affair, but there was nothing more to it. The problem with "radical honesty" is that it only works if you trust the other person is telling the truth, and I have no such trust, for good reason. The problem with complete transparency of our devices is that spying on someone who knows they're being spied on will yield no results.

Which brings me to the technical aspect of my problem. Legally (I've checked) I'm well within my rights to spy on her phone with 3rd party apps. The phone belongs to me in every way except usage. To discover if she's telling me the truth about the duration of the relationship (and about no other affairs having happened) I need to be able to recover old messages, long deleted from her phone. My options are: Forensic analysis (guaranteed to work, but wildly expensive and can't be done covertly since I'd need to take the phone in to the professionals). Restoring her phone from iCloud or from a backup (potential to work, but while I have physical access to her phone, I don't have her iCloud password, I can't ask for it and remain "covert" and I can't restore her phone anyway because she also uses it for work and I can't risk her losing such data). Using 3rd party apps. There are several apps that claim to do this, but one of them mentioned that it can only restore data (texts, pics, etc.) that were deleted within 24 hours. Does anyone have any experience with such apps who can tell me if there's a good one that isn't limited to just 24 hour old deleted data? Forensic analysts have told me they can recover anything that's been on the phone since the day she started using it, but that's with their professional software and expertise. Would something like iMobie PhoneRescue (or another app) be able to recover texts and other messages from 1 or 2 years ago? Any personal experience with such apps would be helpful to me.

Regarding current monitoring of the phone, my options are similar, except the 3rd party apps have limitations I don't know how to get around. There are 2 kinds: One that requires jailbreaking the phone (which I can't do) and another that doesn't require that, but does require her iCloud password (and is limited in functionality because it only access the data on the backup, so nothing "real time.") As far as I can tell the only way to get her password would be for me to change it, but that's obviously not going to work without her knowing that I did it and why. Once again, any personal experience with such apps, or other methods, would be very helpful.

Thanks in advance.

 

But is there any UPside to any of this plotting you're doing?

 

 

What sort of a Brownie Button  do you get to claim IF you discover that her long-admitted affair lasted 6 months, 2 weeks, 4 days and 14 hours (instead of the 4 months you cite)??

 

Get your priorities in order.

 

What she answered in response, about the pictures, is entirely plausible, and she even sounds like someone whose mind can look at the big picture  and understand how it might appear differently when viewed from the here-and-now.

[Wiseman2]

6 hours ago, Ryder101 said:

Our marriage counselor suggested we practice "radical honesty," meaning we hold nothing back regardless of how we think it might affect each other, 

It's unclear how installing any sort of spyware or a gps on her car 'covertly' is "radical honesty". If you think she is still cheating, bring that up in the next 'radically honest' therapy session.

It's doubtful anyone but scammers will promise that you can install spyware, gps devices, that will restore data and don't require the passcode or possession of the phone, etc. Also keep in mind her employer can see what you are up to if you do access her phone. They have ways and means you don't have access to.

Also what is the point? You know she cheated, she admitted it and you decided to 'work through it". If you can't be "radically trusting" contact an attorney. Now That... is something productive you can do without her knowledge!. If your paranoia and distrust is taking on a life of it's own, consider individual therapy.

Edited September 29, 2020 by Wiseman2

[Bittersweetie]

I hope it's okay to comment as a WW...

I trickle truthed my husband. About 4-5 months after d-day he discovered a handful of emails I'd kept (he monitored the wifi which I didn't know was possible). He was, obviously, very upset. Ironically I'd started to feel uncomfortable keeping those emails and had decided to delete them when he found them. I went ahead and deleted them and he confirmed it.

At that time, he said to me: You are going to do what you are going to do. I cannot monitor you forever. It's your choice how you want to be for now on...it's not my responsibility.

They were very powerful words because they were right. I realized I didn't want to be not only the person who had lied and cheated but also the person who continued to lie. I wanted to be honest for myself,  for my marriage, for him.

You can go ahead and check things...I completely understand the lack of trust BS have and you have the right to do so. But I would also tell her, under your idea of radical honesty, something similar to what my husband told me. Personally I found it a very powerful statement. 

Not sure if this helps, good luck.

P.S. As PP says, she needs to be doing everything she can to make you feel safe. I was only about 75% in with this at first, until the above statement. Then I was in 100% and it made a huge difference for both of us in terms of working through my affair and our issues. 

[usa1ah]

12 hours ago, Ryder101 said:

We did. She said it was taken when they were only "work friends," the counselor said if that's her truth I should trust it. I asked "based on what should I trust it?" and he said I should trust it based on our pledge to be radically honest. His idea of rebuilding trust seems to require preexisting trust, which obviously no longer exists.

The forensic analysis costs about $300 an hour with an expected time to complete of about 20+ hours. In the mean time, the phone would have to stay in their possession until their workload allowed them to get to it. They mainly deal with much more important work like crime investigations, so my issue wouldn't exactly be high priority. There are other places that do the same work for a bit cheaper, but not anywhere around where I live, and not that much cheaper either.

You need a new counselor, the one you have is full of s***!

 

Why in the world are you staying with someone that continues to lie to you?

[Dork Vader]

16 hours ago, Ryder101 said:

Hello all,

I'm looking for technical help, not necessarily ethical debates about my actions/intentions, but I suppose I should give a brief intro for context into the inevitable concerns about the ethics of the situation.

[Feel free to skip this paragraph if you don't care about context/background] My wife and I have been married 15 years (with children under 14). A few days before our 15 year anniversary I discovered she was having an affair that had lasted (she claims) 4 months with a coworker. We decided to give our relationship a second chance, to repair what was broken, and to move forward. It's been a very difficult journey for us both since then, but it's also been very rewarding. Our marriage counselor suggested we practice "radical honesty," meaning we hold nothing back regardless of how we think it might affect each other, and it means complete transparency with our devices and diaries (we can check each other's devices freely, without hesitation in asking or allowing access). This seemed promising at first, but one day I was scrolling through old pictures of hers and found pics of her and the guy she cheated on me with that were too intimate for a friendship, and that predated whats she claims was the beginning of her affair. In the spirit of radical honesty, I told her what I found, how it made me feel, and how it made me question her "truth" about the affair. She insisted they were merely friends back then and that she understands how it might seem suspicious when viewed in the context of me already knowing about the affair, but there was nothing more to it. The problem with "radical honesty" is that it only works if you trust the other person is telling the truth, and I have no such trust, for good reason. The problem with complete transparency of our devices is that spying on someone who knows they're being spied on will yield no results.

Which brings me to the technical aspect of my problem. Legally (I've checked) I'm well within my rights to spy on her phone with 3rd party apps. The phone belongs to me in every way except usage. To discover if she's telling me the truth about the duration of the relationship (and about no other affairs having happened) I need to be able to recover old messages, long deleted from her phone. My options are: Forensic analysis (guaranteed to work, but wildly expensive and can't be done covertly since I'd need to take the phone in to the professionals). Restoring her phone from iCloud or from a backup (potential to work, but while I have physical access to her phone, I don't have her iCloud password, I can't ask for it and remain "covert" and I can't restore her phone anyway because she also uses it for work and I can't risk her losing such data). Using 3rd party apps. There are several apps that claim to do this, but one of them mentioned that it can only restore data (texts, pics, etc.) that were deleted within 24 hours. Does anyone have any experience with such apps who can tell me if there's a good one that isn't limited to just 24 hour old deleted data? Forensic analysts have told me they can recover anything that's been on the phone since the day she started using it, but that's with their professional software and expertise. Would something like iMobie PhoneRescue (or another app) be able to recover texts and other messages from 1 or 2 years ago? Any personal experience with such apps would be helpful to me.

Regarding current monitoring of the phone, my options are similar, except the 3rd party apps have limitations I don't know how to get around. There are 2 kinds: One that requires jailbreaking the phone (which I can't do) and another that doesn't require that, but does require her iCloud password (and is limited in functionality because it only access the data on the backup, so nothing "real time.") As far as I can tell the only way to get her password would be for me to change it, but that's obviously not going to work without her knowing that I did it and why. Once again, any personal experience with such apps, or other methods, would be very helpful.

Thanks in advance.

No you are not within your rights to spy on her through her phone. There are laws against wire tapping and bugging peoples electronic devices. What you are doing is not rational or sane. It's crazy, irrational behavior of a mentally ill person. If anything what you are doing is just going to create even more problems for you. If she finds out and she likely will, you could be looking at some major legal problems. 

You can't control your wife, if she's going to cheat she's going to cheat. Just get a divorce and move on with your life.

[Azincourt]

Why would you want to be with a woman who cheated on you?

Have you done a paternity test on your kid? If she cheats on you, how do you know she didn't cheat on you, got pregnant, and didn't pass off the kid as your own because you make good money?

Get a paternity test. If this kid turns out to not be yours? Sue her for all the money you can get out of her.

Paternity tests says you the kid's dad? Great, I'm happy for you.

Nevertheless go ahead and get a divorce.

And no, it's not within your rights to trace her text messages, or to read them, or whatever. What it is within your right is to grow some self-respect and to exit this doomed ''marriage''.

Edited September 30, 2020 by Azincourt

[Starswillshine]

I had success with Dr. Fone, but it was used with an android device. 

And I just want to give you some encouragement against the negative comments. It is hard to try to get to the forgiveness stage when you feel as though you still do not have the complete picture. I think a lot of us, BS, get stuck in the little details. We become detective, and it is hars to break from that. We need to find all the details to make sure they aren't lying. To try to make sense of our world and what happened when we turned our head. I had an entire notebook of stuff. Coordinatinf dates in my dairy with events with "her." It isnt the most mentally healthy thing to do, but at the moment I went through it all, it was what I needed to do. It was more evidence that despite knowing about his affair, he still could not be honest. Ultimately, those small lies led to the complete destruction of our marriage. I could have mahbe moved on if he had just spilled it all out. 

I am sorry you find yourself here. It is such a tough road to travel. Do what you have to do to make yourself come to the best decision  for yourself. 

[Veronica73]

How can you tell from the photo that they were having an affair at the time it was taken? 

If you’re all into radical honesty, and you’ve agreed to transparency In your devices and diaries, there shouldn’t be anything wrong with announcing in your next counseling session that you are having a forensic analyst dig through her phone. If she balks...well, I think you have your answer.

[schlumpy]

Since you are in a reconciliation phase and she is the one that broke the marriage, she should be willing to give up her phone if that is what takes to save her marriage. 

You could make it easier by getting her a new phone and then you have your way with the old one.

If she won't give up the phone that should tell you something about her dedication toward reconciliation.

I fear you are being setup for a repeat performance in the future and next time she may get it right with the new guy and not need to reconcile.

[mark clemson]

6 hours ago, Veronica73 said:

If you’re all into radical honesty, and you’ve agreed to transparency In your devices and diaries, there shouldn’t be anything wrong with announcing in your next counseling session that you are having a forensic analyst dig through her phone. If she balks...well, I think you have your answer.

6 hours ago, schlumpy said:

Since you are in a reconciliation phase and she is the one that broke the marriage, she should be willing to give up her phone if that is what takes to save her marriage. You could make it easier by getting her a new phone and then you have your way with the old one.  If she won't give up the phone that should tell you something about her dedication toward reconciliation.

FWIW I tend to agree. You don't trust her yet, and that (and the reasons for it) can and probably should be discussed. Also she should be willing to hand over the phone to help alleviate your worries.

 

 

 

Edited September 30, 2020 by mark clemson

[Ryder101]

I didn't want to get into the ethics of it, but I suppose I will anyway.
To those concerned about legality, a lawyer told me I'm well within my rights. This was a paid consultation, not an "ask over the internet" lawyer. So I wrote that based on paid-for legal advise from a lawyer.

To those concerned about the ethics, violating "radical honesty," or asking what's the point: The point is to regain trust. I'm not looking to be her prison warden monitoring her moves and granting her permission to live her life. It's not healthy and it's not what I want. She's given me that power now as a show of proof she's 100% committed to us, but I keep rejecting it because I'm not interested in controlling the woman I love. What I'm looking for is to regain trust in her words. That's all. If she says the affair was 4 months long but I find out it wasn't, I'll know there can never be trust and it's over between us. If she says he was the only one, but I find out he wasn't, same deal. In other words, only the deleted data on her phone can confirm what she is telling me. If it does, I'll know I can start trusting her again. Until then she could be lying to me for malicious reasons, out of concern for me, or for whatever else. Without proof all I have is belief, but belief isn't enough after trust has been broken.

If anyone has an idea on how to regain trust, I'm all ears. I've tried the therapist's advice, I've read the articles from licenced counselors, but all of it falls short of addressing the root cause. 

As for the spying, again, I'm not looking for this to be our new way of life. I'm not interested in keeping her on a leash, or hiding in the shadows monitoring her every word. I'm feeling vulnerable and alone in a dark room, and I'm looking for some light to clarify things for me and get me moving in the right direction. That's all.

I'd been suspecting something was happening for most of those 4 months it happened over. I didn't do anything about it because I felt horrible for even thinking it. Finally, it was Facebook that gave her away (actual Facebook, not how she used it) and gave me enough "evidence" to make up my mind that I need to see what's going on. I bought a GPS tracker and installed it on her car. I saw the map showing me her car going to his house and staying there for almost 2 hours. After she came home I checked her phone for the first time in our 18 years together and I found messages that confirmed it. I confronted her and she admitted to everything. 

Why don't I leave her? Because I love her. Because the emotional pain and mental anguish I felt from discovering the affair is unlike anything I've felt before. I'm not an emotional guy, literally didn't even cry when my parents died, but this had me unable to even speak to my children without breaking down in tears and sobbing like an animal. That doesn't mean I'll forgive anything, or stand by and let her have an affair because "at least she's happy," but it does mean I will give her another chance. I carry some of the blame for the circumstances leading her to this affair also. I did put our relationship aside to focus more on the kids. I did neglect to remind her that I love her in a more meaningful way than just saying it at the end of a phone call or at night before bed. I did fail to communicate adequately and I let minor problems build into major resentments. When she did this we were more like coexisting partners than lovers. We had our routines and we took each other for granted. I was content, she, apparently needed more. Looking back I can see her trying to get more out of me, and I can see how I failed to understand the importance of her desires.

Keep in mind that this guy, as she described it, had been "working her" for years. While I was busy being a good partner, he was busy trying to show her he could be a good companion. He was always there to listen to her ups and downs, and to share her interests; he filled her head with sob stories about losing the love of his life to cancer, and to make himself seem attractive through pity (like a puppy dog who just needs some affection). He used all the classic lies and manipulations to move in to her life as more than just a friend.

Or she's lying to me and she's been playing me like a fiddle. Am I really wrong for wanting proof, for wanting to know, not just "believe" it? I don't think so.

One of you mentioned I should use radical honesty and transparency to tell her what I need to do with her phone. I'm seriously considering that, but I need to know what I'm doing before doing it. The forensic analysis is out. So once I know what is usable I might go ahead and tell her.

 

On 9/30/2020 at 6:17 AM, Starswillshine said:

I had success with Dr. Fone

What kind of success and how did it work? Were you able to only recover recently deleted data, or things deleted further back (months even?). If you could give me some more details on how it worked, was it easy, was it worth the money and trouble, etc. I'd be very appreciative.

[d0nnivain]

Since she knows you know about the affair and that you are struggling to trust her again, she should be all for transparency.  So ask for the phone & do whatever it is you are going to do to recover messages.  Spend the money.  It's still cheaper then a divorce.  Understand you are going to read stuff you will never be able to get out of your head.  In the end what you find will destroy you, even if it confirms it's in the past. 

If she is not on board with forking over her phone to give you peace of mind she might not be as invested in saving your marriage. 

If you intend to do all this behind her back, don't bother.  If you are doing this on the sly your marriage is already over.  There will never be any trust.  Even if you get whatever reassurance you think you want, she won't trust you anymore.  Go back to that lawyer you were talking to & just start divorce proceedings.  

[usa1ah]

Try a polygraph. Search your area for the best rated ones. Talk with the tester about your situation and what you need to know, they will help you with the questions to ask. This is not always reliable but it has caused, in many cases, a parking lot confession to all of the truth. Talking with people that have done the polygraph, it has worked out for them. One wife actually beat it, she turned out to be a sociopath. If she refuses then you have to decide if that is just an admission to not being completely honest with you. 

[vla1120]

You have to weigh the benefit of knowing exactly when she started cheating on you. I know your main concern is whether she is being completely honest with you now. Chances are, based on my personal experience as well as all the cases I've read out here, you're being trickle-truthed. She might be trying to save face by only telling you what she thinks you already know. You know she cheated. If you want to work on your marriage, but the past behind you and judge her by her behavior moving forward. Knowing the sordid details of what has already happened in the past will not help you heal and it will not help your marriage. Just keep an eagle's eye on her behavior from here forward.

Edited October 2, 2020 by vla1120

[usa1ah]

He is waiting to know if she has been completely honest with him. That way he will know if he can trust her again. 

[Wiseman2]

Now that she knows you are into tracking her with the gps, etc, she and her lovers can lay low and use his car etc. Now she knows what yo do because your paranoia taught her how to be a better cheater. It doesn't matter how many devices you tap, monitor, etc.

She now knows to avoid all that. And you taught her that by putting the gps on the car. Now if you really want to destroy your marriage ask for courtroom style testing, polygraph etc,. 

Sorry but you still don't have a marriage and you are still not a good partner. This has devolved into a cat-and-mouse game. The only problem here is that  you don't want to pull the trigger on divorce. You just want to treat her like a prisoner to get even.

Edited October 2, 2020 by Wiseman2

[oldtruck]

do a search for experts. $300 @ hour for 20 hours is exorbitant.

though having the phone search will yield peace of mind.

[d0nnivain]

10 hours ago, oldtruck said:

do a search for experts. $300 @ hour for 20 hours is exorbitant.

No it's actually cheap:  $15 per hour.  While I don't think it will change the split on a divorce, recovering this info is a painstaking process even more so if you want it to hold up in court so if you are going to go through all the trouble of doing this, do it right.  

[Watercolors]

Ryder101 there’s really no point for you to spend money spying on your wife’s cellphone. But you already know this. 
And, what will it accomplish if you admit to your wife in front of the marriage counselor that you planned to have her phone thoroughly investigated because when you snooped, you found that photo which aroused your paranoia about your wife actually lying to you about the duration of her affair. It won’t accomplish anything other than create a greater divide between you and your wife. 

She’s had the affair. She’s lied to you about it. She’s potentially still lying to you, despite this whole ‘radical honesty’ approach suggested to you two by your marriage counselor. A cheater always cheats. And they always lie. Do they reform? Only if they want to. Your actions of spying on your wife’s phone even more, can’t predict or prevent her from continuing to lie to you about her affair. So, your intentions to have her phone given the once over by an app or by IT phone experts, will not accomplish what you really want from your wife: finding out the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you god. 

 

[Ryder101]

On 10/2/2020 at 12:31 PM, Wiseman2 said:

You just want to treat her like a prisoner to get even.

This is why I didn't want to get into the ethics of it all. I spelled out my intentions as clearly as possible, that I have no interest in treating her like a prisoner, yet I'm still accused of it. That's fine. Everyone's situation is unique to their own circumstances which then colors their perspective when handing out advice to others.

 

On 10/2/2020 at 10:09 AM, d0nnivain said:

Understand you are going to read stuff you will never be able to get out of your head.

That's a fear I have and a risk I'm willing to take knowing I'll almost definitely regret later. I already know too much, and it tortures my thoughts 24/7.

 

On 10/2/2020 at 10:09 AM, d0nnivain said:

So ask for the phone & do whatever it is you are going to do to recover messages.

Having thought about this I've decided I agree. I'm going forward with it, but not behind her back. Once I know what I'm doing I'm telling her right before doing it. Her reaction will be just as valuable as what I find on the phone. So far she has denied me nothing, as she claims she's willing to do anything to save our marriage. I'm also asking for a paternity test for our youngest. The other children are practically my identical twins, but my youngest has only a vague resemblance to me; to such an extent that even she has begun questioning my paternity lately (shes asking us why she doesn't look like me, and she even asks her friends to spot any similarities between us). In the past my wife didn't even want me to joke about it, but now . . .?

 

On 10/2/2020 at 12:10 PM, usa1ah said:

He is waiting to know if she has been completely honest with him. That way he will know if he can trust her again. 

This is exactly right.